Brandon Brown

[Galway Eagle]

Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended.   How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk?  Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I've made mistakes, that was not one of them.  Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.  

If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that.  This isn't about forgiveness.  Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.  

If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should.  I doubt he will be doing that.

Ok first let's not act like being a blue & gold fund donor makes you special or something I've technically been one since my sophomore year because I was buying those sixth man fund student tickets. 

At what age do you feel that he shouldn't have this on him his whole life? At 15 you're either starting your sophomore year or ending freshman year of high school not like you can't drive yet, can't even legally drop out of high school seems like all the standards of still being a kid.  If he was 14 and still in 8th grade would you forgive him? Do you have kids? Would you judge them forever based on something they did at 15? Or if you're still younger try and remember the stuff you did when you were that age. Would you want that to define you? 

[PGsHeroes32]

Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended.   How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk?  Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I've made mistakes, that was not one of them.  Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.  

If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that.  This isn't about forgiveness.  Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.  

If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should.  I doubt he will be doing that.

It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.

God you are one ignorant bastard.

[PGsHeroes32]

Who said lock him up for life?  I hope he puts himself through school, gets a good paying job, and doesn't commit any more felonies.

But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette.  Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.  

He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.

Getting a scholarship to play basketball isn't something he is "owed"

It is something he EARNED.

Starting to question your IQ at this point.

[rocky_warrior]

My guess is he didn't act alone and probably was following the lead of someone, anyways. 

You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article?  I'd absolutely give this guy a chance.  Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/

According to a Tempe Police report, Brown and Jerrell Carter accosted three men, robbing them at gun point. Carter pointed the gun, while Brown took their wallets and cell phones, according to the report. A loaded gun was found in the car in which they were riding, the report summarized.

...

During the long process, he was allowed to finish high school, before serving a sentence that the state recommended to be 61/2 years in the Arizona Department of Corrections.

At the presentencing hearing in January 2010, family members, teachers, his coach and pastor sent letters to the judge, asking for leniency.

"You couldn't find anybody who didn't like the kid," Cesar Chavez coach Gary Lee said. "He never had a bad referral in high school. He was like, 'I'm going to deal with this situation, and I'm going to persevere.' "

[wadesworld]

You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article?  I'd absolutely give this guy a chance.  Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/

Yeah when I made that post I was just coming to conclusions about what happened based on what was being posted in the thread.  When I read the article it was clear that, while a completely horrible decision, this is a kid who was probably raised without a whole lot of structure in his life and had older influences pulling him in the wrong direction.  I am very surprised that a public defender could not have him tried as a juvenile, especially considering he wasn't the one with the gun (not that it excuses him of any wrongdoing, just saying legally it's surprising they charged him as an adult).  When I was right out of college I worked with kids who probably had similar backgrounds to him growing up and some of them, sadly, did much, much worse things than what Brown did.  While some never were able to overcome their past, there were some (including those who have done much worse) who clearly made a horrible decision, realized it, and turned their life around.  No doubt that kids like that should get a second chance, and should have the ability to earn back everything that they've worked hard to get.

[MU82]

Questions for the group:

1. What is the role of prison? Is it to rehabilitate or to condemn for life, regardless of the severity of the crime?

2. Do you believe in redemption and second chances? Do you believe people can and do change for the better?

I am not a Christian. I was one of the four Jews who graduated from MU in 1982, and I have been blissfully agnostic for many years. But I have studied Jesus' works and teachings and I can confidently say that if Jesus were a university president, he would gladly accept this young man.

I agree with those who disapprove of the use of "mistake" in describing what he did. I made a mistake when I overcooked my eggs this morning. Knowingly committing a crime is not a "mistake." But I disagree with those that committing a crime and serving one's time should eliminate a person from consideration for a Marquette basketball scholarship.

I believe in redemption, I believe in second chances and I believe Jesus would agree wholeheartedly with me.

[Golden Avalanche]

You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article?  I'd absolutely give this guy a chance.  Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/

I was going to write this yesterday but the thread had already gotten far out of control and figured it would be lost.

Also, I wouldn't have phrased it as nicely as you did since I would call out multiple members of this community for their stupidity and assholic nature for not taking the 79 seconds it took me to click the link, read the article, and realize the kid fucked up by who he associated with one night eight years ago rather then the predatory criminal so many of the self righteous high horse braggadocio brigade made him out to be.

[CTWarrior]

I think this is an interesting discussion and though many would like it to be, it is not a black and white issue, as I can see both sides of the debate.

Dismissing a convicted felon out of hand is not an unreasonable position to take, both for the reputation of your program and more importantly for the safety of your student body.  I know that is my immediate reaction.  Better safe than sorry for your students is not a bad policy.

But in the end, every situation is different and as a Jesuit university we have the responsibility to try to do the Christian thing.  If the young man wants to come to the University and is well-vetted by those charged with making the admission decision and they were completely satisfied that he has turned his life around and can succeed in the classroom and on the court without being a threat to the student body, then we should be open to accepting him and helping him on his journey to being a productive person.

[tower912]

I was going to write this yesterday but the thread had already gotten far out of control and figured it would be lost.

Also, I wouldn't have phrased it as nicely as you did since I would call out multiple members of this community for their stupidity and assholic nature for not taking the 79 seconds it took me to click the link, read the article, and realize the kid unnatural carnal knowledgeed up by who he associated with one night eight years ago rather then the predatory criminal so many of the self righteous high horse braggadocio brigade made him out to be.

Hey, we found something we agree on!    Woot woot.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Not religious in the slightest but this thread got way too out of control for me not to chime in. Wojo knows the kid better then any of us pretend to do. I'm sure he's talked to him and I'm sure Brandon has been completely open about his past with Wojo. I trust Wojo and I think way too many people are up in arms about a crime he committed 8 years ago. We don't know his personal background, we don't know what he's been through so stop pretending like you do and stop condemning the kid.

[77ncaachamps]

Cura Personalis.

If he's on the straight and narrow, let MU continue to be his guide.

[Warrior Code]

Cura Personalis.

If he's on the straight and narrow, let MU continue to be his guide.

+1, well said.

[Blackhat]

It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.

God you are one ignorant bastard.

You're sounding unimportant.

[Dawson Rental]

Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended.   How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk?  Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I've made mistakes, that was not one of them.  Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.  

If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that.  This isn't about forgiveness.  Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.  

If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should.  I doubt he will be doing that.

If you think that he pointed a gun in anyone's face, then you are posting without bothering to learn the facts first.

[Dawson Rental]

I typically just follow the different threads and rarely do I jump into the fray but I have a few hypotheticals for those who think this guy isn't worthing of being a student-athlete at Marquette. Would your opinions change if he were not a basketball player? In other words would you be objecting so strenuously if he were a JUCO student looking to transfer in strictly as a student? What if he walked on? Also, what if one of the incoming recruits was arrested for a drug-related offense. Should they automatically be disqualified from attending Marquette let alone playing a sport? Where do you draw the line? Who makes the determination on what is or isn't "serios" enough to disqualify someone from attending?

I believe that its a given that that if one of the incoming recruits was arrested (with good cause) for a drug-related offense at this point, they would have their scholarship pulled.  Armed robbery is clearly a more serious offense.  The difference is eight years of exemplary conduct since the conviction in this case, compared to the lack of time that would be needed by a current recruit to demonstrate that they had gotten their life back on the right track before they would enroll in the fall.

[Dawson Rental]

It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.

God you are one ignorant bastard.

That is the second time during this thread that you have resorted to name calling.  Maybe it's time to take a deep breath.

[4everwarriors]

Still searchin' for that elusive intelligent bastard.

[Blackhat]

Alexander Hamilton

Leo Da Vinci

[Spotcheck Billy]

Alexander Hamilton

Leo Da Vinci

but can they score?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

but can they score?

Alexander Hamilton's shots are always on the money.

[humanlung]

maybe we can get a couple manslaughter parolees for the 5 spot next year.   



I know we've fallen but are we this desperate?

Huggins will not be happy that we are playing in his sandbox.

[The Equalizer]

Trying to settle the argument based on whether the person is fundamentally good or permanently flawed is probably not the right argument.  Both sides can make good points.

The issue is really one of risk tolerance.

Think about it from a 2x2 matrix.  One axis is Admit/Don't Admit.  The other is Relapse/Doesn't Relapse.

That gives us four potential outcomes:
Admit - Relapse:  Marquette's judgement (and that of Coach Wojo, AD Scholl and President Lovell) gets called into serious question.
Admit - No Relapse:  Marquette gets the benefit of a potentially great player with no repercussions.
Don't Admit - Relapse:  Marquette dodged a potential PR disaster, but few will remember.
Don't Admit - Don't Relapse:  Marquette loses out on a great player, and we'll hear about it for years.

We will never know with certainty if this kid is truly rehabilitated or not.  That's not a knock on him--that's just a statement of fact.  Since we don't know the actual potential to relapse, there will always be an inherent risk in admitting him.

The question at hand is whether his basketball talents outweigh the risk.  And that's probably up to Wojo, Scholl and Lovell to solve.

[buckchuckler]

Alexander Hamilton's shots are always on the money.

Well played sir.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think this is an interesting discussion and though many would like it to be, it is not a black and white issue, as I can see both sides of the debate.

Dismissing a convicted felon out of hand is not an unreasonable position to take, both for the reputation of your program and more importantly for the safety of your student body.  I know that is my immediate reaction.  Better safe than sorry for your students is not a bad policy.

But in the end, every situation is different and as a Jesuit university we have the responsibility to try to do the Christian thing.  If the young man wants to come to the University and is well-vetted by those charged with making the admission decision and they were completely satisfied that he has turned his life around and can succeed in the classroom and on the court without being a threat to the student body, then we should be open to accepting him and helping him on his journey to being a productive person.

This.

It's not a simple answer, especially at a Jesuit school.

People will try to oversimplify it, but it's a tough question.