If there was no Big Bang s the universe timeless?? Interesting reading

[GGGG]

I guess we have a different definition of intelligent design than the one you and Bleuteaux are describing.

"Intelligent design," as the phrase is used, means that God (or whomever is the Creator) is responsible for aspects of the universe, such as evolution, versus sound scientific theory, such as natural selection.

Now if you want to say that God created the universe and physical laws and set it all in motion, that's a matter of faith...not science.  It is impossible to prove.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Intelligent design," as the phrase is used, means that God (or whomever is the Creator) is responsible for aspects of the universe, such as evolution, versus sound scientific theory, such as natural selection.

Now if you want to say that God created the universe and physical laws and set it all in motion, that's a matter of faith...not science.  It is impossible to prove.

I supposed that is a legitimate definition.  Not one that I ascribe to.  I believe in free will.  I don't believe God sits there and makes things happen and is an architect, waving a magic wand.  Or wanted "us to win", etc, etc. 

It is hard for me to even define what God is, but I believe in an almighty being that goes beyond anything the human mind can process or comprehend.  An entity that sets things in motion, is a source for good, but allows it's creation to go untethered or hindered.  That is unless there is a need to jolt things up.   I actually believe in the power of prayer, even if it is a placebo effect or just random occurrences.  No idea.  Impossible to prove, but I do believe in an intelligent "being" that surpasses anything we can comprehend.  For me, that is the "intelligent design" aspect.

I've always said when I die it's either going to be all black and that's the end....what a disappointment but how will I know?  Or, something exists and the next round is even more interesting.  I'm hoping for the latter and will hang on to that notion.

[forgetful]

Agreed.  I love reading this stuff, usually understand only a small part of what I've read, but always find myself in awe of the implications.

I once got too ambitious and tried to read some of Einstein's original works on special relativity, but really struggled to understand.  Then I picked up a great (and very readable) book: E = mc² by David Bodanis.  I still don't totally get it, but have a much better sense of what the equation really means.

If you are interested in another very approachable inroads to theoretical physics I recommend reading Brian Greene's work, like the Elegant Universe.

[MUsoxfan]

I supposed that is a legitimate definition.  Not one that I ascribe to.  I believe in free will.  I don't believe God sits there and makes things happen and is an architect, waving a magic wand.  Or wanted "us to win", etc, etc. 

It is hard for me to even define what God is, but I believe in an almighty being that goes beyond anything the human mind can process or comprehend.  An entity that sets things in motion, is a source for good, but allows it's creation to go untethered or hindered.  That is unless there is a need to jolt things up.   I actually believe in the power of prayer, even if it is a placebo effect or just random occurrences.  No idea.  Impossible to prove, but I do believe in an intelligent "being" that surpasses anything we can comprehend.  For me, that is the "intelligent design" aspect.

I've always said when I die it's either going to be all black and that's the end....what a disappointment but how will I know?  Or, something exists and the next round is even more interesting.  I'm hoping for the latter and will hang on to that notion.

Very well said

[forgetful]

I supposed that is a legitimate definition.  Not one that I ascribe to.  I believe in free will.  I don't believe God sits there and makes things happen and is an architect, waving a magic wand.  Or wanted "us to win", etc, etc. 

It is hard for me to even define what God is, but I believe in an almighty being that goes beyond anything the human mind can process or comprehend.  An entity that sets things in motion, is a source for good, but allows it's creation to go untethered or hindered.  That is unless there is a need to jolt things up.   I actually believe in the power of prayer, even if it is a placebo effect or just random occurrences.  No idea.  Impossible to prove, but I do believe in an intelligent "being" that surpasses anything we can comprehend.  For me, that is the "intelligent design" aspect.

I've always said when I die it's either going to be all black and that's the end....what a disappointment but how will I know?  Or, something exists and the next round is even more interesting.  I'm hoping for the latter and will hang on to that notion.

I agree, very well said.  The latter statement is a lot like Pascal's wager.