Case Closed: Start Mayo from here on out

[GGGG]

FG%, 3pt FG%, FT% all matter a great deal...

and derrick was serviceable last night.  teams have stopped sending derrick's defender after DG (depending on spacing) because DG got better at working out of the double.  chris can't pass as well, and it was difficult to have both on the court at the same time.  

it is what it is, and dawson and derrick should split much of the time imho, but to act like derrick was anything more than serviceable in any game he's ever played is ridiculous.  

See I don't disagree with that.  I have never disagreed with that.  I have used the phrase "average at best" to describe Derrick.

But see it is so very Scoop to say "well, those assists weren't good assists."  Well OK.  But I can guaranty you that if Dawson was the one dishing out the 8 assists, we would get a never ending series of posts about the flow that Dawson brings to the offense, etc. etc. etc.

Undoubtedly Mayo is the single biggest reason Marquette won last night.  I would argue that Otule and Jamil were the next two reasons.  But Derrick deserves credit both for the perimeter defense he played during the run, and for the fact that he got the ball where it needed to be and when it needed to be there.  Not *all* of those assists were due to generous scorekeeping and passes to Mayo on the perimeter.

[robmufan]

Watching Burton, he's got the same mentality, but with Todd, his creativeness also includes passing to open players.

I had the opposite feeling of Burton. I feel like once he gets the ball, he is taking some wild floater or a shot too early in the sequence. Love his game, just wish it was a little more under control.

I am guessing the control thing will come with more experience.

[NersEllenson]

I know one of Derrick's assists was on a fast break...another was him coming off a screen.  Both passes were where they needed to be, when they needed to be there.  Can't ask more of him than that.

Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass.  Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays.  Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.

[GGGG]

Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...

Keep fighting the good fight Ners!!!

[MerrittsMustache]

Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass.  Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays.  Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.

Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.

[mu03eng]

Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.

We could get Will Farrell to play him in the movie.

[hairy worthen]

I had the opposite feeling of Burton. I feel like once he gets the ball, he is taking some wild floater or a shot too early in the sequence. Love his game, just wish it was a little more under control.

I am guessing the control thing will come with more experience.

The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer.  Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.

Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Mayo is a really interesting player. When his/our back(s) are against the wall, he seems to lock in, crave the ball, and get in a scoring zone at a level of few others in a Marquette uniform during the 21st century. Several examples over the years. @UW his freshman year, looked like the only player that belonged on the court vs. UF in the tournament, ice cold shot @GTown, end of regulation vs. Nova, second half last night. Then he has games where he looks passive, disinterested, and is a liability on both sides of the ball. We have to loook no further back than four days ago, when he went for zero points and 4 turnovers against St. John's, registering an ORtg of 0. ZERO. That's as bad as it gets. He has never been able to consistently produce the the level we all would like.

If Todd can play like his back is against the wall for the rest of the season (because it is), he's exactly the element we need to turn it around. I will believe it when I see it consistently, but I hope he gets the opportunity to prove it to all of us because I don't think we have a chance otherwise.

[NersEllenson]

Keep fighting the good fight Ners!!!

Thanks Sultan - And I'm glad you didn't try to disagree.  They were 8th grade level...doesn't take away from the fact he made them...but let's not get too excited.

And what's your thought on using +/- as a stat analysis in that last night Mayo was +4 and Derrick was +11 for the night?

 

Ners has reached the point where his posts read like a parody of himself.

LOL - I find your continued belief that Derrick is the best option at PG for this team to be equally comical.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sorry dude - those assists were passes a basic 8th grade point guard could execute...and lets face it...since Derrick never looks to shoot...he should always be looking to pass.  Derrick didn't create any of the looks for his teammates through his penetration - they were simple basketball plays.  Now, if you want to trumpet the brilliance of his ability to execute a two-hand chest pass to the logical person to pass the ball to...by all means....go ahead.

I'll make you a deal.  

If you honor your Derrick moratorium until the end of this season, I'll take a season long vacation from scoop in 2014-2015.

The mods can ban me for the season.

But, you can't type his name, his number, his initials, or imply anything about Derrick, or allude to anything with the MU PG.

Deal?

[Silkk the Shaka]

The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer.  Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.

Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.

Actually I feel like he's much closer to McNeal defensively than you might think. McNeal was a gambler, shooting gaps for steals trying to turn defense into offense. He thrived in the system those years because that's what our defense was designed to do: get deflections and turn those live ball turnovers into transition baskets. He was never a great positional/lock down defender like DJames was his senior year. Deonte leads our team in steal% at 5.5, which is eerily reminiscent of the 5.1 McNeal registered in his BEast DPOY sophomore campaign. The difference is, this defense is designed to be more of a contain defense, rather than pressure the wings/shoot the gaps type defense. I feel that Deonte has very similar traits/instincts to McNeal on both sides of the ball. With a team leading shot% of 31.1 again eerily reminiscent of McNeal's team leading 29.6 his sophomore year, it shows neither one is/was shy about shooting, even when they just made a boneheaded play. I actually really like that about him, I think it projects a very nice career if he follows a similar progression as McNeal.

[Archies Bat]

And what's your thought on using +/- as a stat analysis in that last night Mayo was +4 and Derrick was +11 for the night?

 

From what I saw, I think at has some basis in reality.  I found Mayo to be inconsistent within the game. He (and many others) did not play well for the first 25 minutes.  I have not seen the stats by each half, but suspect they would support it.  I'm glad he kicked into gear, but he did not play a full game at that high level.

[hairy worthen]

Actually I feel like he's much closer to McNeal defensively than you might think. McNeal was a gambler, shooting gaps for steals trying to turn defense into offense. He thrived in the system those years because that's what our defense was designed to do: get deflections and turn those live ball turnovers into transition baskets. He was never a great positional/lock down defender like DJames was his senior year. Deonte leads our team in steal% at 5.5, which is eerily reminiscent of the 5.1 McNeal registered in his BEast DPOY sophomore campaign. The difference is, this defense is designed to be more of a contain defense, rather than pressure the wings/shoot the gaps type defense. I feel that Deonte has very similar traits/instincts to McNeal on both sides of the ball. With a team leading shot% of 31.1 again eerily reminiscent of McNeal's team leading 29.6 his sophomore year, it shows neither one is/was shy about shooting, even when they just made a boneheaded play. I actually really like that about him, I think it projects a very nice career if he follows a similar progression as McNeal.

Agree,

 Except McNeal was much better at defensive positioning, knowing where to be, rotations, than Burton is. Some of it is the type of defense Crean played then, yes.

[mu03eng]

I'll make you a deal.  

If you honor your Derrick moratorium until the end of this season, I'll take a season long vacation from scoop in 2014-2015.

The mods can ban me for the season.

But, you can't type his name, his number, his initials, or imply anything about Derrick, or allude to anything with the MU PG.

Deal?

Guns is jumping on a grenade for scoop....character revealed 

[MerrittsMustache]

From what I saw, I think at has some basis in reality.  I found Mayo to be inconsistent within the game. He (and many others) did not play well for the first 25 minutes.  I have not seen the stats by each half, but suspect they would support it.  I'm glad he kicked into gear, but he did not play a full game at that high level.

+1

Mayo was -5 in the first half. He played 9 minutes, didn't take a shot and had 2 assists, a steal and a rebound. He was amazing down the stretch but that doesn't erase his first half.

Derrick, on the other hand, was even in the first half and played all but 1 minute in a second half where MU outscored Butler by 9 (he was +11).

[GGGG]

Thanks Sultan - And I'm glad you didn't try to disagree.  They were 8th grade level...doesn't take away from the fact he made them...but let's not get too excited.

Oh I disagree.  But your arguments get more comical by the week.

No real point in talking to you about it any longer.

[4everwarriors]

I say our best chance to win is in transition. Can't post up or shoot with consistency anyway, WTF? Gotta get the easy bunnies, hey?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How did his became YET ANOTHER unnatural carnal knowledgeING THREAD ABOUT DERRICK/DAWSON!?!?!? SERIOUSLY

Ahem...


Back to the topic on hand, Mayo already is a starter. He plays the fifth amount of minutes on the team. I do agree that his minutes should increase after this performance.

[avid1010]

The control thing will get better with time. I remember J McNeal being the same way offensively as a freshmen and by his junior year he was an efficient scorer.  Many freshmen go through this. You can see the talent and ability, he just makes poor decisions sometimes and has trouble finishing at times.

Defensively Burton has a long way to go and is the anti McNeal, but offensively as freshmen, they are similar in terms of wild shots and turning the ball over.

i was thinking the exact same thing, but i loved both of them at that stage of their game because you knew it would get better, and you also knew they had a toughness to attack that rim that others did not.  in a year where it seems we'd be extremely lucky to get to the NCAA tourney, i'd love to see more minutes for the freshmen to grow in BEAST game settings.