ESPN - University Presidents will have second conference call Saturday....

[MU86NC]

The seven non-Football Bowl Subdivision schools in the Big East have agreed to leave the conference and are debating the process of departing it, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Big East Exodus
The loss of the seven Catholic schools is the latest in a dizzying array of defections from the Big East, which formed in 1979. The seven schools will bring the number of departures since 2004 to 17.

School   Left   For
Miami   2004   ACC
Virginia Tech   2004   ACC
Boston College   2005   ACC
TCU †   2011   Big 12
West Virginia   2012   Big 12
Syracuse   2013   ACC
Pittsburgh   2013   ACC
Louisville   2014   ACC
Rutgers   2014   Big Ten
Notre Dame   2015   ACC
DePaul*   undetermined
Georgetown*   undetermined
Marquette*   undetermined
Providence*   undetermined
St. John's*   undetermined
Seton Hall*   undetermined
Villanova*   undetermined
* - according to sources
† - Announced it would join BE in 2010, then withdrew for Big 12 in 2011 before playing
Details are still to be determined for how the seven Catholic schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- will leave the conference.

Big East commissioner Mike Aresco told the athletic directors of the remaining and incoming schools on Thursday evening that he expects the seven schools will leave the Big East, a source told ESPN. On the call, Aresco told the ADs that he had not officially heard from the seven schools that they were leaving.

According to the source, there is a lot of interpretation regarding exit fees, the waiting period, and on who gets the Big East name and Madison Square Garden for a conference basketball tournament.

The departing schools conducted a teleconference with Aresco on Thursday morning. They have scheduled a second conference call for Saturday, when they are expected to address these issues and possibly make an official declaration.

Because the seven schools are leaving as a group, they can use a league clause that eliminates the exit fee for a collective departure, a source told ESPN. However, the schools would have to honor the league's requirement to provide 27 months' notice.

The seven schools could negotiate an earlier exit, but the Big East would undoubtedly require some sort of financial compensation.

It's unknown who would keep the Big East name. The conference name typically stays with the members that remain in a league. However, the seven schools could argue the name should go with them because four of the seven Catholic schools (Georgetown, Providence, St. John's and Seton Hall) were founding members in 1979. UConn is the only Big East FBS member that was a founding member. Among the other founders, Boston College has left for the ACC, and Syracuse will join the Eagles after this season.

Initially, both the FBS and non-FBS schools believed, sources said, that the seven Catholic schools could dissolve the league by a two-thirds majority vote, which they have. However, a source with knowledge of the situation told ESPN on Thursday that the league may not be dissolved without at least two FBS and two non-FBS members each voting to do so.

That won't happen as only 10 full members -- the seven departing, non-FBS schools plus UConn, Cincinnati and South Florida -- remain in the conference and the FBS schools don't want the league to dissolve. Temple is a football-only member. The Owls will be full members next year but would not get a vote on dissolution this year.

ESPNU College Basketball

Andy Katz and Seth Greenberg discuss the news about more change in store for the Big East and talk to Notre Dame coach Mike Brey and Pitt coach Jamie Dixon.

More Podcasts »
Without voting to dissolve, the seven schools are expected to move together to form a new league. They would keep their automatic berth in the NCAA basketball tournament because NCAA rules state that as long as a group of seven universities has been in the same league for five years, it keeps its bid after a move together to a new conference.

The remaining Big East schools would probably retain their automatic bid to the NCAA tournament after going through an NCAA process, according to NCAA vice president and former Big East associate commissioner Dan Gavitt. That would mean there would be 32 automatic bids to the field of 68, up from 31.

The departure of the non-FBS schools likely will not accelerate the scheduled departures of Rutgers to the Big Ten or Louisville to the ACC, sources said. Both are expected to remain in the Big East in 2013, with each expected to negotiate to leave on July 1, 2014.

Notre Dame is supposed to honor the league's 27-month exit agreement, but men's basketball coach Mike Brey said Thursday he believes the Irish could join the ACC for all sports except football next season.

Notre Dame was supposed to stay in the Big East for a 27-month period, which could mean as long as the 2015 season. But the Irish have been negotiating an early exit. Notre Dame is not required to pay an exit fee if it honors the 27-month agreement, based on the Irish's contract with the Big East.

Brey also said some of the nation's Catholic schools are discussing joining the seven outgoing Big East Catholic schools and making a national Catholic conference with Xavier, Saint Louis, Dayton, Creighton, Gonzaga and possibly Saint Mary's, as well.

Xavier athletic director Mike Bobinski told ESPN.com that he's not sure how this will all play out but "we're supportive of efforts to strengthen the (Atlantic 10) membership," when asked what the Musketeers would do if the seven departing Catholic schools sought Xavier's membership.

More From ESPN.com
If there is a lesson to learn in this mess, it is to know who you are. Or better, who you aren't. With that in mind, the Catholic 7 from the Big East finally had their come-to-Jesus moment, Dana O'Neil writes. Story

The Big East will no longer resemble what we've come to expect over the past three-plus decades. Basketball has paid the price for football in realignment, and the Big East will go down as its most destroyed victim, Andy Katz writes. Blog

The departure of the seven Catholic schools from the Big East is a crippling blow to the league's media-rights negotiations. Last week, CBSSports.com projected the value of the league's media-rights revenue between $60 million and $80 million. An industry source told ESPN on Tuesday that he thought the figure would be closer to $50 million. The estimates reported by CBSSports.com and ESPN both included the Catholic schools as part of the package.

Once the Big East loses the seven Catholic schools, it will decrease the value of the league's media rights by "15 to 20 percent," an industry source said.

Another challenge for the Big East is the league's basketball media-rights deal expires after the 2012-13 season, and the league's football contract expires after the 2013-14 season. It's unknown how the Big East could negotiate a new basketball deal, beginning next season when seven members would be leaving by 2015.

A smaller-than-projected media-rights deal might also affect decisions by Boise State and San Diego State to join the league in 2013 as football-only members and have them possibly decide to remain as full members of the Mountain West.

In past months, both schools have reiterated they are committed to the Big East, and a source said Thursday that San Diego State still plans to remain in the Big East in football in 2013 and in the Big West in all other sports.

The source said the Aztecs' approach is the exodus of the seven "does not change much for the football schools.''

Big East blog
ESPN.com's Andrea Adelson writes about all things Big East in the conference blog.

• Blog network:
College Football Nation

St. John's men's basketball coach Steve Lavin said he and women's coach Joe Tartamella gave feedback on the school's decision.

"I've had discussions with (school president) Father (Donald) Harrington, with my athletic director, and with the team of people at St. John's," Lavin said. "When conference realignment started to take place there was a good conversation with the administration at St. John's. This is the latest update on conference realignment, but there hasn't been anything that has caught us off guard. It's one of the realities of big-time college athletics, so it's not as though when you wake up you're not any more surprised than you were three, six or eight months ago. It's part of the culture now. What we have to do is continue to get feedback and give our input, but the presidents are the ones who are going to determine the future for St. John's aspirations in basketball."

There still have been numerous changes in the Big East with seven Big East schools announcing they were leaving in the past two years: West Virginia, Pittsburgh, TCU, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame and Rutgers.

In their place, the Big East added Temple and will add Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF, Boise State and San Diego State in 2013, Tulane and East Carolina in 2014, and Navy in 2015.

Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF and Tulane will be full Big East members; Boise State, San Diego State, East Carolina and Navy will be football-only members.

Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk said Thursday the Midshipmen are continuously "reviewing all the moving parts" concerning the Big East.

"We have the latitude to evaluate the bigger picture for the next couple of years," Gladchuk told the Baltimore Sun. "This is a obviously a new development. We're not in a position where we're panicking. Eventually, the dust will settle. What that means I don't know. When it does, Navy will take a real hard look at what's left standing."

Brett McMurphy is a college football reporter for ESPN. Andy Katz is a senior college basketball writer for ESPN.com. Dana O'Neil covers college basketball for ESPN.com.

[chapman]

I guess I understand now.  So it wasn't that they needed 2 football schools to have 9/10 votes, they can't dissolve without two FBS and two non-FBS school votes (in addition to the 2/3 majority), so they will just move out.  I guess with the way the brand has been getting dragged through the mud lately and some of the good press the C7 are getting it might not be the end of the world to create anew.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I guess I understand now.  So it wasn't that they needed 2 football schools to have 9/10 votes, they can't dissolve without two FBS and two non-FBS school votes (in addition to the 2/3 majority), so they will just move out.  I guess with the way the brand has been getting dragged through the mud lately and some of the good press the C7 are getting it might not be the end of the world to create anew.

Confusing Hopefully the C7 knew this...perhaps this is why Gtown is dragging its feet trying to bring along UCONN and UC...giving them a future out let's say for free....while they park their football teams in the remnant league.  This way keeping the name, MSG, media, web assets, etc. 

Maybe another idea is to do a C7 spin off under the Big East charter....providing autonomy, heritage, common infrastructure and association...like a franchise.

[NavinRJohnson]

It sure seems to me that all the schools involved should be looking to work in a collaborative vs. contentious manner in this whole thing. The BBall only schools want a BBall conference and the Football schools want a football conference. So, figure it out. Ay way of slice it, one conference is turning into two, and while I'm sure there is limitless legal rigmarole, it seems like ND has it figured out better than anyone (granted their TV deal makes it easy) By being willing to split the two elements (football and everything else).

These teams have been left out in he cold, so find a way to create the two best conferences you can. UConn, Cincy, USF, and even Memphis, etc. seemingly are in a position to have the best of both worlds. Put your football team in the football conference, and everything else in the BBall/everything else conference.

You could have a BBall/all sports but football conference of the 7 plus, UConn, Cincy, USF, Memphis, Xavier, Butler, etc. and a conference that is all of the current/future big east teams who play football, and with the exception of the couple noted above who would only play football, compete in all sports as well.

Theres certainly some teams whomwouldnt like not being included on the bball side, but what's their alternative? i know, there are all kinds of ramifications, BCS, etc., risk of teams bailing later, blah, blah, blah, but again, figure it out.

[Skatastrophy]

The teams have agreed to leave, and are now just working out *how* to leave:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8745235/seven-schools-agree-leave-big-east-debating-process-source-says

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Confusing Hopefully the C7 knew this...perhaps this is why Gtown is dragging its feet trying to bring along UCONN and UC...giving them a future out let's say for free....while they park their football teams in the remnant league.  This way keeping the name, MSG, media, web assets, etc. 

Maybe another idea is to do a C7 spin off under the Big East charter....providing autonomy, heritage, common infrastructure and association...like a franchise.

The Football Division & the Non-Football Division.  Add a bunch of non-football schools.  You play most of the conference games against your division and just a few cross-over games against the other.  You include rivalary games as part of the cross-over - UConn/Georgetown, Cincy/Xavier, etc.

[martyconlonontherun]

The article implies that both sides thought they could just dissolve. How do you get that far in the process without a lawyer knowing all the by-laws?

[Dr. Blackheart]

The article implies that both sides thought they could just dissolve. How do you get that far in the process without a lawyer knowing all the by-laws?

Yeah...with all the lawyers in the room that would be a head scratcher, if true. That is key to a clean split.

[brewcity77]

One point I disagree on is this: there should not be 32 automatic bids. NCAA rules state that a league needs to have 7 members that have been together for 5 years. After this year, Pitt and Syracuse are gone. If no one negotiates an early exit (and right now why on earth wouldn't they?) that would leave UConn, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, Notre Dame, and Louisville. I'm sure the latter three will be interested in getting out sooner rather than later with not only football but now the hoops side so damaged. But regardless, they don't qualify for an automatic bid with 6 teams, even with the addition of Temple and Memphis (and SMU, UCF, Houston, and whatever craptastic wonder-kids are joining next year).

[martyconlonontherun]

One point I disagree on is this: there should not be 32 automatic bids. NCAA rules state that a league needs to have 7 members that have been together for 5 years. After this year, Pitt and Syracuse are gone. If no one negotiates an early exit (and right now why on earth wouldn't they?) that would leave UConn, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, Notre Dame, and Louisville. I'm sure the latter three will be interested in getting out sooner rather than later with not only football but now the hoops side so damaged. But regardless, they don't qualify for an automatic bid with 6 teams, even with the addition of Temple and Memphis (and SMU, UCF, Houston, and whatever craptastic wonder-kids are joining next year).

Does a AQ really make a difference? UCONN and Cincy should be thinking they can get in based on skill. USF wouldn't win the conference anyways...

[brewcity77]

Does a AQ really make a difference? UCONN and Cincy should be thinking they can get in based on skill. USF wouldn't win the conference anyways...

It matters for two reasons. The first is simple prestige. All the big-boy tournaments have an auto-bid. The second is for when you need it. Syracuse wouldn't have made the NCAAs a few years back if not for winning the Big East Tournament. USF might not win the league, but if they finished top-half and were on the outside looking in, I wouldn't put it past their style to get them 3-4 wins in a row to seal a tourney title. But if they don't have the AQ, they're still going to the NIT. The AQ is a protection for the teams to ensure that the champ gets there. Without it, the NCAA can just ignore you.

[MUMountin]

One point I disagree on is this: there should not be 32 automatic bids. NCAA rules state that a league needs to have 7 members that have been together for 5 years. After this year, Pitt and Syracuse are gone. If no one negotiates an early exit (and right now why on earth wouldn't they?) that would leave UConn, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, Notre Dame, and Louisville. I'm sure the latter three will be interested in getting out sooner rather than later with not only football but now the hoops side so damaged. But regardless, they don't qualify for an automatic bid with 6 teams, even with the addition of Temple and Memphis (and SMU, UCF, Houston, and whatever craptastic wonder-kids are joining next year).

A few reports have quoted an unnamed official--from the NCAA, I think--who has said that there is a high likelihood the NCAA would waive that requirement for the remnants.  I'm not positive, but I think that the WAC/MWC split had something similar happen.

[Groin_pull]

The Football Division & the Non-Football Division.  Add a bunch of non-football schools.  You play most of the conference games against your division and just a few cross-over games against the other.  You include rivalary games as part of the cross-over - UConn/Georgetown, Cincy/Xavier, etc.

NO. NO. NO. NO MORE FOOTBALL SCHOOLS.
Football is what led to this cluster**ck in the first place. Enough. No more football. If you want to play a home-and-gome against UConn or Cincy, go for it. But they will not be a member of this new conference. They've spent the past year (if not longer) looking for a new home...begging the ACC or Big XII to take them. If they join the C7, they'll continue to look for a new home...and will bail at the very first opportunity. Screw 'em both. The C7 needs schools that are 100% on board.

This new conference will be comprised of basketball-only schools. As it should be.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The article implies that both sides thought they could just dissolve. How do you get that far in the process without a lawyer knowing all the by-laws?

Easy, happens every day and why disputes go in front of judges, arbitrators, etc.  One side of lawyers views it one way and another side of lawyers views it another way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

NO. NO. NO. NO MORE FOOTBALL SCHOOLS.
Football is what led to this cluster**ck in the first place. Enough. No more football. If you want to play a home-and-gome against UConn or Cincy, go for it. But they will not be a member of this new conference. They've spent the past year (if not longer) looking for a new home...begging the ACC or Big XII to take them. If they join the C7, they'll continue to look for a new home...and will bail at the very first opportunity. Screw 'em both. The C7 needs schools that are 100% on board.

This new conference will be comprised of basketball-only schools. As it should be.

Depends what kind of football in my opinion. Nova and G'Town have football...so does Butler, Dayton, etc.   UMass has football, but they are in the MAC.  I don't see a MAC football school is hardly a threat to break away and cause problems, especially if the vast majority of the conference is made up of basketball schools.

[PBRme]

Easy, happens every day and why disputes go in front of judges, arbitrators, etc.  One side of lawyers views it one way and another side of lawyers views it another way.

And if you've ever spent any real time with attorneys they are about as consistently vague and indeterminate as they can be.  You will get more "could be" "maybe" "possibly" responses and not "Will Be".

They are all about process (and lengthening the process)  Remember they view time as revenue while the rest of us view time as cost.

[Lennys Tap]

They are all about process (and lengthening the process)  Remember they view time as revenue while the rest of us view time as cost.

Exactly. At $500/hour, they can spend days researching and debating what the definition of is is.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And if you've ever spent any real time with attorneys they are about as consistently vague and indeterminate as they can be.  You will get more "could be" "maybe" "possibly" responses and not "Will Be".

They are all about process (and lengthening the process)  Remember they view time as revenue while the rest of us view time as cost.

Yup, deal with them every day of my life....it's all about gauging risk for them in my opinion.  Some of it is clear cut, black and white, but they are ultimately the ones deciding how much risk the gray areas are going to cause if you interpret one way or the other.  Lawyers....

[GOO]

And if you've ever spent any real time with attorneys they are about as consistently vague and indeterminate as they can be.  You will get more "could be" "maybe" "possibly" responses and not "Will Be".

They are all about process (and lengthening the process)  Remember they view time as revenue while the rest of us view time as cost.

Well, it isn't so easy and vagueness is not to run up bills (yes, there are exceptions).  Some things have easy answers, but then attorneys are not asked those questions too often.  A lot of things are not 100% clear, especially when you have facts, law, human interactions/oral, and another human judge who will decide it.  Throw in that the other sides will have attorneys trying to muddy the water or have opposing views, and you get the vague responses.  It doesn't do a client any good to be told 100% positively you will win...  Nothing in the law is 100% especially when a third part is going to decide it.  If it is complicated, even if you feel you have a great case and should win, with a lazy judge or easily confused judge or jury, you never know.  Get the wrong judge and they won't read a brief, will barely pay attention or they get some aspect of the case that is less than relevant stuck in their heads.  Look at O.J. for a prime time example of an easy case that went before a jury.  Imagine a case with a dozen lawyers trying to help the judge to correctly interpret a document that was drafted over decades and added to and amended, etc...

An attorney that will give you a guarantee or 100% positive answer where litigation is involved, is probably not an experienced attorney.  And, they probably get sued a lot for malpractice or just don't have the experience to know better.  Any attorney that has been around could tell you stories of cases that were clear cut, but the third party didn't see it that way.... now, you could blame the attorney, but really anytime you have a third party deciding something that isn't crystal clear, and other attorneys doing their best to confuse the issues, etc.... there is no 100% answer.  So, even if the attorney loves the case and is thinking to himself that he/she can't lose this case, they wont' say it for good reason... the best you'll get is this is a very strong case and here are the reasons it is strong and here are a couple of ways that we could lose it.  The best attorneys see both sides, of course, and thus can see the risks and reasons to win and lose.  Then, throw in the wild card of a judge and jury and you'd have to be insane, inexperienced or reckless to make too strong or definitive of a statement.  

I'll guarantee that the by-laws have interpretation issues as well as facts that are calls on which way a judge or jury might decide.  And, if they are vague, etc, there may be oral testimony of what was said or the facts surrounding the adoption of the bylaws to help interpret the meaning... and why was this phrase added, to help interpret the meaning or conflict if vague, etc.

At least doctors can say that 98% of patients with this type of procedure make it out of the operating room alive.. e.g. bypass.... but ask a doctor to say you'll make it out okay or you'll make it out with the same brain function.. no way they say it, even if they think it is routine.  If you know the doctor he might say I've done 100's of these and everyone came out fine and your procedure is routine... You won't get that you will win/come out fine.

[martyconlonontherun]

It matters for two reasons. The first is simple prestige. All the big-boy tournaments have an auto-bid. The second is for when you need it. Syracuse wouldn't have made the NCAAs a few years back if not for winning the Big East Tournament. USF might not win the league, but if they finished top-half and were on the outside looking in, I wouldn't put it past their style to get them 3-4 wins in a row to seal a tourney title. But if they don't have the AQ, they're still going to the NIT. The AQ is a protection for the teams to ensure that the champ gets there. Without it, the NCAA can just ignore you.

Yeah, and I guess it gives teams at least hope to try and win the tourney instead of just playing out games.