Jimmer Fredette AP POY, Brey AP COY

[jmayer1]

So they don't count the NCAA Tournament? Well, any award that excludes the most important factor of who is a quality coach seems suspect. We're not giving Buzz $2.3m for his stellar 9-9 conference record. We're giving it to him because he coached up a mediocre squad to an Sweet Sixteen berth.

I never called Brey a "horrible" choice. That was you adding drama to my opinion. My opinion is that regardless of winning 27 games, Notre Dame didn't win squat where it counts -- banners. I don't call coaches or teams "elite" unless they win something or achieve something that matters (e.g. UConn making it to the Final Four this season).

If the requirement is low, shouldn't Tom Crean have been hands down COY in 2003? A team not expected to do much goes out and wins a top 6 conference with an All-American on the roster -- did he even get one vote?

As for this year, you could throw any number of Matta, Rose, Fisher, or Dixon in a pot and I see them as equal or above Brey in terms of readiness to win COY.

Is every Coach of the Year and MVP award in the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, CBB, and CFB suspect? I'm not aware of any award that isn't based on the regular season.

Sorry if I exagerrated your comment.

TC did win a number of coach of the year awards in 2003.  That MU team wasn't expected to do much? Not sure about that, they did finish 2nd place in CUSA the year before, was returning everyone aside from Henry, and adding RJax.

So, UConn is elite even though they finished 5 games behind ND in the regular season due to their tourney success but Pitt is elite because they finished 1 game ahead of ND in the regular season, despite not winning any games in the BET and only 1 in the NCAA? Any way you want to slice it, ND was one of the elite teams in the nation this year, whether you like it or not. You don't contend for a #1 seed in the NCAA tourney without being an elite team.

I agree with your last point for the most part.  Brey is right there with a number of other coaches and there are quite a few guys who could have got it, but I can't fault anybody for picking Brey; he was the coach of an elite team that many people think overachieved.

[romey]

Whether the award is suspect or not, is not the issue IMO.  Fredette won POY and Brey won COY, given the standards of the award: based on regular season performance.  You can argue that it's stupid award or the criteria should be changed, but I think what most are asking is does Brey deserve COY and Fredette POY FOR THE REGULAR SEASON?

[MerrittsMustache]

Jimmer Fredette can't play defense.  I'm still surprised that so many people liked him as a player.

Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith or Jared Sullinger are all better players and would have been worthy choices. Unfortunately, Jimmer is a white guy with a fun name who scores a bunch of points. What's not to like?

As much as I dislike ND, I'm fine with Brey as COY. Hansbrough as BE POY over Walker was a joke though...but again, he's white guy who scores a bunch of points.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

[brewcity77]

Whether the award is suspect or not, is not the issue IMO.  Fredette won POY and Brey won COY, given the standards of the award: based on regular season performance.  You can argue that it's stupid award or the criteria should be changed, but I think what most are asking is does Brey deserve COY and Fredette POY FOR THE REGULAR SEASON?

Exactly right. Brey isn't the only legitimate nominee, but he did a heck of a lot with a heck of a little. ND was supposed to be a bubble team, they ended up in the discussion for a #1 seed into Selection Sunday.

No one has to like the criteria, but knocking the selection because of things that happened after the votes were already cast is simply inane.

[Golden Avalanche]

Is every Coach of the Year and MVP award in the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, CBB, and CFB suspect? I'm not aware of any award that isn't based on the regular season.

Sorry if I exagerrated your comment.

TC did win a number of coach of the year awards in 2003.  That MU team wasn't expected to do much? Not sure about that, they did finish 2nd place in CUSA the year before, was returning everyone aside from Henry, and adding RJax.

So, UConn is elite even though they finished 5 games behind ND in the regular season due to their tourney success but Pitt is elite because they finished 1 game ahead of ND in the regular season, despite not winning any games in the BET and only 1 in the NCAA? Any way you want to slice it, ND was one of the elite teams in the nation this year, whether you like it or not. You don't contend for a #1 seed in the NCAA tourney without being an elite team.

I agree with your last point for the most part.  Brey is right there with a number of other coaches and there are quite a few guys who could have got it, but I can't fault anybody for picking Brey; he was the coach of an elite team that many people think overachieved.

Yes, I do see the majority of those awards as suspect. It's all politics.

TC might have gotten regional awards here and there but was he ever a factor for the major award from the AP like Brey received? Certainly based on Crean's regular season in 2003, with a bar this low, he should have been the winner but my guess is Tubby Smith swept all (which again shows the ludicrous nature of these awards as Tubby got swindled by Crean when it counted). Hell, Keno Davis won one of these things. 

Pitt is elite because they won the best conference in the country over a three month span. UConn is elite because they're in the midst of accomplishing something ridiculous -- sweeping their entire post-season. Butler is elite because Stevens has back-to-back Final Four appearances after winning his conference. Banners and major achievements make "elite" teams in my mind.

It's my opinion there were only three "elite" teams in the sport this year -- OSU, Duke, Kansas. After that, there were 15 squads that were very good and then 40 squads that were indistinguishable from each other. That's why I think any number of four, five, six guys could have won it and in the end politics gave it to the good guy who hasn't won much in the past. No harm in that.

[HouWarrior]

A little time and a lot of wins wash away the scandal. In the offseason we tracked reports/rumors of Brey being maybe fired, suspended, or having to go to confession over a public rumor of an affair.....
a year later, Brey is Coach of the year .
The confessional priest must have ordered 10 hail marys and 27 wins this season....and you are forgiven,my son.

[Pakuni]

Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith or Jared Sullinger are all better players and would have been worthy choices. Unfortunately, Jimmer is a white guy with a fun name who scores a bunch of points. What's not to like?

As much as I dislike ND, I'm fine with Brey as COY. Hansbrough as BE POY over Walker was a joke though...but again, he's white guy who scores a bunch of points.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Oh, please.
Fredette averaged 5 points more per game than Kemba, shot better from the field, shot better from behind the arc and, as much as Walker carried UConn this year, Fredette carried BYU even more.
You've got a very fair argument for Walker over Hansbrough, but not over Fredette. Jimmer had a better season.
And the award is intended for the player who had the best season; not the best player and not the best pro prospect.

[MerrittsMustache]

Oh, please.
Fredette averaged 5 points more per game than Kemba, shot better from the field, shot better from behind the arc and, as much as Walker carried UConn this year, Fredette carried BYU even more.
You've got a very fair argument for Walker over Hansbrough, but not over Fredette. Jimmer had a better season.
And the award is intended for the player who had the best season; not the best player and not the best pro prospect.

Walker averaged more assists, more rebounds, more steals and turned the ball over significantly less than Jimmer. Jimmer is a chucker and I, personally, have never been particularly impressed with his game. If Buzz allowed DJO to chuck it 20-25 per game, he'd average a bunch of points too.

Even if you don't think Walker was better, what about Smith and Sullinger? They have much more impressive overall numbers than Jimmer.

[Hards Alumni]

Walker played in the BEAST.  You put Walker in Jimmer's conference and he goes for 40 a game.

What a terrible argument from a usually level headed poster.