Try to read without getting a little sick to your stomach...

[Goose]

Actually AnotherMU it is not pure fantasy. I can tell you the day the conference came together and the excitement level of both KO and BC. I never said it compared to BE but the excitement within The Old Gym was off the charts. So you can debate with me the thoughts/opinions of MU brass on our inclusion into the Great Midwest? If so, I gladly accept the discussion.

The day MU entered that conference was the day MU became relevant again on national scene. Make no mistake about it.

[StillAWarrior]

StillaWarrior---KO would have gone UW Stout if they paid him MU money. You obviously are lacking knowledge of the situation or flat out brainwashed.

We both know that's not true, so it's probably not the best example you could come up with.  But your point stands -- KO wanted out.  I was at Marquette when KO was there, so I'm not totally ignorant of the situation.  If you're willing to discuss this issue honestly (and not just resort to calling me ignorant and/or brainwashed), you would have to agree that when KO left, Marquette was not nearly the program that we have now.  We had crappy facilities, were in a crappy conference and Marquette hadn't made the commitment we now see to building a great program.  To borrow a phrase from another poster in this thread, it could be argued that it was a "crappy job."  Tennessee was a step up at the time.  There really wasn't a lot that KO could look to at Marquette to conclude that it was a job worth keeping.  In other words, he got out while the getting was good.

Another word about KO:  his career since MU has shown that he is not a model of professional stability.  Even if MU had been a "major" program when KO was there (and it wasn't by any rational measuring stick), I'm not sure KO leaving would reflect too poorly on MU in hindsight.  KO's simply not a stable guy, and I think his many job changes probably say a lot more about him than they say about the employers that he's left behind.

StillaWarrior--What evidence to you need that it happens more at MU than other major programs? How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"? Half of our problem is that for some reason we think if we wish for something enough it will happen. Other major schools say fxxk the wishing and gets it done.

I see that someone else already addressed this off the top of his head.  But answer this question:  how many coaches have left their job at Marquette over the last decade for a program other than Indiana?

Look, I get it.  Like you, I want Marquette to be a truly elite program with all that entails.  But to talk about KO and Crean leaving as evidence that there's a problem isn't terribly helpful.  As I mentioned above, KO isn't a good comparison for two reasons:  he's proven himself a professional nomad, and Marquette wasn't a very good job in the mid-90s.  I think Crean isn't the best comparison because...well...it's Indiana.  I know people like to make fun of that, but it carries some weight.  Notwithstanding their current situation, Indiana has historically been one of the top jobs in college basketball.  Do you think less of Kansas since Williams left for UNC?

[Goose]

StillaWarrior--The main argument I hear for Buzz staying is he is loyal and we gave him a chance. We gave KO a chance, we gave TC a chance...when does it stop. I respect your posts and opinion on KO. The MU job was garbage when KO took it and he made respectable. But, please, please believe me he was gone to any school that would take him. In addition, him being a nomad is accurate but why does that matter? He freely admits leaving MU was his biggest mistake.

Seriously, on the BR and Big 10 coaching changes do you think it is even a close argument? UCLA, NBA, Kansas, UNC and IU? Our guys go backwards and yet we sit back and accept it. I would be happy being a stepping stone location for those schools. But, Tenn or OU?

[DiaperDandy]

Two Jucos, Jimmy and Joe
A 2-star center in Outle.
A Canadian transplant in Junior.

Are these the four "Texans"?

No Texans in this year's class.  No Texans last year's class either.

Are we to believe OU wants him for THIS Texas pipeline?

Erik Williams is the other Texan.  He is from Houston.

[StillAWarrior]

Pakuni---I did not want to out your stupid argument. Kruger went to NBA (greener pastures), Howland to UCLA (greener pastures), Self to Kansas and Doherty to UNC (greener pastures). Our guys go to UT and OU. Hardly comparing apples here. If Buzz ends up at Duke I would say we should lose him. He goes to OU SHAME ON US!!

You asked about the last 10 years, right?  Our guy went to Indiana.

That guy who went to UT?  That was a lifetime ago and he left a program that is so different from where we are today that many seem to have forgotten how bad things were.  Clearly greener pastures at the time.

Ad that guy who went to OU (you used the past tense, so I figured I could), he's coaching OUR team tomorrow night against North Carolina in the Sweet 16!


The sad thing is that, in general, I agree with you.  But you honestly have no support for your "belief" (your word, not mine) that this happens more at Marquette than at most, if not all, other major programs.  When I asked for support, you put the question back to me.  When someone answered that question by offering nine examples off the top of his head, you focused on only some of the schools and ignored the others.  When he asked why you were selective, you offered the post I've quoted above.

You want apples to apples?

Crean (Marquette to Indiana) is apples to apples with Howland, Self and Doherty.

KO (Marquette circa 1994 to UT) is apples to apples with Kruger, Amaker, etc.


Perhaps you should just wait until we find out if Buzz is leaving before you make any more posts on the topic.

[nathanziarek]

How much do you guys think MU will pay per year (to Buzz) if it becomes a bidding war?

I bet a lot. We're on the cusp, I think, of becoming a well-recognized program again. Even if three years isn't enough time to gauge how successful he'll be long term, stability is key to our program right now. I don't have any idea what a "respectable" raise might be (if *I* were in demand, I'd probably get 25% in my career track. Luckily for my employer, I'm not very good), but 25-30% would be $2M a year, right? That seems like a lot...

[StillAWarrior]

StillaWarrior--The main argument I hear for Buzz staying is he is loyal and we gave him a chance. We gave KO a chance, we gave TC a chance...when does it stop. I respect your posts and opinion on KO. The MU job was garbage when KO took it and he made respectable. But, please, please believe me he was gone to any school that would take him.

Seriously, on the BR and Big 10 coaching changes do you think it is even a close argument? UCLA, NBA, Kansas, UNC and IU? Our guys go backwards and yet we sit back and accept it. I would be happy being a stepping stone location for those schools. But, Tenn or OU?

I don't dispute that KO was gone "to any school that would take him."  But you and I both know that he had done a nice enough job at MU that your reference to UW-Stout was silly.  KO did well enough that he was going to parlay it into a nice job...and he did.  UT was a clear step up.

In addition, him being a nomad is accurate but why does that matter? He freely admits leaving MU was his biggest mistake.

It matters because I'm not entirely convinced that whether a coach stays or leaves depends entirely on the school.  Sometimes I think it might just be the coach.  KO is a nomad.  Did Self stay at Gonzaga because of something they did, or is it just who self is?  How about Boeheim?  K?  Izzo?  I really don't know.

[PaintTouches]

For the record, Rosiak tweeted that Buzz's buyout is in fact very large saying it was more than twice his salary.

[Tugg Speedman]

For the record, Rosiak tweeted that Buzz's buyout is in fact very large saying it was more than twice his salary.

Do you have a link?

I emailed Rosiak, waiting for a response.

[nyg]

Do you have a link?

I emailed Rosiak, waiting for a response.

http://twitter.com/Todd_Rosiak#

Here's what I found

[Pakuni]

Pakuni---I did not want to out your stupid argument. Kruger went to NBA (greener pastures), Howland to UCLA (greener pastures), Self to Kansas and Doherty to UNC (greener pastures). Our guys go to UT and OU. Hardly comparing apples here. If Buzz ends up at Duke I would say we should lose him. He goes to OU SHAME ON US!!

Are you for real? The more you post, the more I doubt it.

You specifically asked (and I quote): "How many Big 10 or BE coaches have left their job voluntarily over the past decade to take another job in "greener pastures"?

Then you call my response "stupid" because the coaches I named left for "greener pastures."
Huh? Isn't that exactly what you asked for?

And speaking of stupid, it would be stupid for anyone to stupidly suggest that Tennessee, circa 1994, wasn't greener pastures compared to Marquette, circa 1994.
Better conference? Check.
Better facilities? Check.
More money? Check.

[MUfan12]

I'll say it again, we got nothing to worry about with Buzz.

And I'm usually a worrier. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.

[Jacks DC]

I have a bad feeling about this one and I hate that.  However, my wife is an LSU grad so I follow them for football.  A few years ago it was a "done deal" that Les Miles was going to Michigan - reported on ESPN and everywhere else.  He's still at LSU.  Therefore Buzz will be staying put.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Niv--You are correct media types make errors quite frequently in cases like this. I just hope we do not have a Harbaugh case that only the location is incorrect.
If Buzz were to leave MU administration has to look into the mirror and ask themselves in spite of outspending everyone why do we lose guys? Trust me it is not the weather or poor recruiting options in Milwaukee area.

CoachTomCrean was the first to report the true Harbaugh story.   

[Goatherder]

On average, there were about 5000 per home game this season. That's actual people in the seats. Our biggest draw was against Texas (around 9000) and the lowest was Maryland-Eastern Shore (3311). The Kansas game had about 8500, but half were Jayhawk fans.

I keep reading about how great a program OU is, how it is a definite step up from Marquette, how it has such great facilities, etc.  Compared to Marquette, those numbers are pretty sad.  Marquette is always among the leading draws in the country, averaging somewhere between 15.000-16.000 a game.  Those are ticket sold, not bodies in the seats, but it is unlikely that Marquette has drawn as 8000 few actual people in the past decade.  I think we drew that many the last time we hosted an NIT game and had two days to sell tickets.  The biggest draws are against the big name conference opponents, when we typically draw twice that number.  Even against the likes of Maryland-Eastern Shore, Marquette draws more than the largest crowd OU had this season.  

Marquette cannot beat OU for location.  Other than that, OU looks like a definite step down from Marquette.

[Goose]

Pakuni---If Buzz leaves you will be the first guy on here either saying how great it is for the news because Buzz was fill in the blank. That post will be followed on a list of loser suggestions, to be followed up on the city of Milwaukee and the weather scared your second tier guys away.

I wish I lived on fantasy island.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni---If Buzz leaves you will be the first guy on here either saying how great it is for the news because Buzz was fill in the blank. That post will be followed on a list of loser suggestions, to be followed up on the city of Milwaukee and the weather scared your second tier guys away.

I wish I lived on fantasy island.

In English please.

[wyzgy]

jack the price to 10 million and coach k

[Stuckin1977]

I'll say it again, we got nothing to worry about with Buzz.

And I'm usually a worrier. That's why my friends call me Whiskers.

MUfan12, I thought your friends called you Whiskers because you were as curious as a cat...

Put all of the speculation and $$$ aside.  If Buzz does leave MU after only 3 years, then I don't want him.  Having seen him on tv and having personally met him, I think he's a genuine guy and will stay true to MU and won't leave after this season.  That being said, if he does leave then he's not the guy I thought he was, and good riddance.  Until then, I'm just going to worry about taking on UNC tonight.