OT: Renewing Rivalries

[Coleman]

There have been posts on these boards requesting "better" cupcakes for RPI reasons.

What do people think about renewing rivalries with Loyola Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit? According to the wiki, these are storied rivalries (and all fellow Jesuit schools). We have played Detroit 88 times (61-27), Loyola 81 (46-35) and SLU 54 (31-23). These are also universities from cities with Jesuit high schools that attract a ton of students to Marquette and have broad Marquette fan support.

Detroit finished 143 in the RPI, SLU 175, and Loyola 197. Seem to be in that perfect RPI range that we were looking for.

Why not offer these guys buy-in games?

[brewcity77]

Agreed 100%. I'd like all of those, as they meet the profile. Quality mid-major leagues and unlikely to fall below 250 even in a bad year. A team like Detroit could be very valuable as they currently have a pair of top 100 recruits on their roster and might be able to challenge for the Horizon in the coming years. These are the kinds of teams we need to play, and also the kinds of teams that would be worth offering 3-for-1 home/away series with. They'd be much more valuable to the program than continuing the idiotic UW-M series.

[RealChiliWarrior]

The problem lies in these former opponents would require a return game in their house.  

[Coleman]

The problem lies in these former opponents would require a return game in their house.  

Even then, I wouldn't be opposed, if it was a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1. But I think we should start with a buy-in game offer with no return game, and then see what we can manage to leverage. And if we do get 1 away game every 4 or 5 years, they are all midwest teams that would be a relatively short journey.

[lurch91]

The extra exposure in those areas wouldn't hurt either.

I wouldn't mind playing Oakland either.

[Litehouse]

SLU would probably only take a home-and-home.  If Loyola and Detroit would take the 4-for-1 UWM had, I'd sign up for that, but I bet they would want a 2-for-1, and I doubt that would work for us.

[Goose]

We cannot afford to pass on home dates due to revenues. Basically our home non conference schedule will remain the same type of teams in the upcoming seasons. The school cannot afford to pass on any home games because basketball covers all sports expenses.

Would agree it would be nice to play those schools. In addition Creighton was often on schedule and Xavier was for many years.

[brewcity77]

We cannot afford to pass on home dates due to revenues. Basically our home non conference schedule will remain the same type of teams in the upcoming seasons. The school cannot afford to pass on any home games because basketball covers all sports expenses.

Would agree it would be nice to play those schools. In addition Creighton was often on schedule and Xavier was for many years.

We don't have to. Schedule four different teams (say SLU, Creighton, Detroit, Loyola) all to 3-for-1 deals and rotate the home games. Each year you get 3 home games and one road game. Then tell UW-M and UW-GB they have to play here, which eliminates those as road games. I'd rather play these as road games than Vandy or LSU that are more likely to result in losses.

[willie warrior]

Absolutely.

SLU, Dayton, Xavier, Illinois, Minnesota would be great games. And home and home should be able to be arranged. Look at the recruiting territories: Illinois and Saint Louis areas would be worth it. And how about Ohio? When was the last time we got a kid out of Ohio? Probably Aaron Hutchins from Ohio.

And since Texas is one of Buzz's areas, get a home and home with somebody like Baylor, etc.

Think bigger than Longwell State and East Saskatchewan A&M

[OgieO618]

Like the Jesuit theme - should try to schedule St. Joes, Creighton, SLU, Detroit. A 2 for 1 with Creighton would be especially attractive. The Jays play in an arena the size of the BC. Would be a great game for TV. Can't go one for one with them, though. They aren't good enough.

[Goose]

Brew City--The loss at Vandy is more help in schedule strength down the road. I would think in a perfect world all of us would have a different non conference schedule.

[willie warrior]

Forgot about Creighton-- a long time rival that plays good BB. And there have been players out of Omaha. Who can forget Kerry Trotter, followed by Vic Lazarettis and Mike Bargen.

[Goose]

Willie--If you think MU wants to play 10 crappy home games you are mistaken. We play them because of money. It would be great if we could renew old rivals on a yearly basis.

[Coleman]

I'm not even saying we do this with all three of these schools, but even just replacing Centenary with Loyola makes a difference in our RPI.

I'd be fine with a 2 for 1 with Loyola. Its literally a 90 minute drive from Marquette's campus, and their 5,000 seat gym is rarely half full for games (I'm a current grad student there). Even our road games there every couple years would probably be a majority of Marquette fans.

Its worth a look at.

[brewcity77]

Brew City--The loss at Vandy is more help in schedule strength down the road. I would think in a perfect world all of us would have a different non conference schedule.

Not as much as you'd think. Look at it like this. What's worth more, playing Vandy (25) and Longwood (319) or playing Detroit (143) and Creighton (123)? We think Vandy because they are a top-25, but the average of the two teams rating is 172 vs 133.

That's why we're better off targeting teams in the 50-200 RPI rating rather than a few top 25s and a bunch of 300+ teams. Think about it like a quiz average in school. Say you have two students with the following scores on 5 quizzes:

Student A: 84, 85, 79, 79, 83
Student B: 93, 91, 92, 94, 0

At a glance, Student B seems to be the smarter one because of all the scores in the 90s. But the zero drags the average down to 74. Meanwhile, despite a couple scores in the 70s, Student A has an average of 82. All those sub-300 teams are the equivalent of zeros on a quiz. We are better off not only playing fewer sub-300 cupcakes, but also better off playing fewer top-25 teams that increase the risk of loss and don't help the RPI nearly as much as many might believe.

[Goose]

BrewCity---Of course your point is correct. What one hopes in playing in Vandy is that beat we beat them for a quality win. In addition, there is an outside interest you could lose to a Detroit or a SLU. In a perfect world we would never play a low end home game again. I have debated this topic many, many times and it always comes down to the money the school gets.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I have recall that Loyola would not schedule MU ever since we left them at the old MCC to go to Conf USA. They were bitter.

[Litehouse]

I have recall that Loyola would not schedule MU ever since we left them at the old MCC to go to Conf USA. They were bitter.

We had Loyola for a home game with Crean, I think it was 01-02 when ODB's brother played for them.

[HoopsMalone]

I'd love to see a United Center game against Illinois every Christmas Break.

[herboturbo]

I'd love to see a United Center game against Illinois every Christmas Break.

Doubt that would ever happen.  Isn't there a conference rule that would give Depaul the final say on MU playing a neutral site game in Chicago??

[mileskishnish72]

My father used to say that people kept letting money interfere with their decision making.
Obviously, it's the financial aspect that's going to decide a lot about who and where we play. Can anyone give a (brief) summary of what MU gets out of a home game vs. an away game? Thanks.

[Litehouse]

I remember someone doing a breakdown of the numbers in the past, and I believe MU made about $400,000 for each home buy game.  Also, the amount we have to pay teams to come here for buy games can vary greatly.  Prairie View A&M might charge $80k, and a team like Loyola might demand $200k, if they'd do it at all.