Nova officially asked by BE to join for football.

[GGGG]

That's exactly what I would do Chicos.  The BE has something very valuable...a BCS auto-bid.  They should use this to attract some serious football schools that open up new markets.  Furthermore, the BE is the weakest of the auto bid conferences, which should make them even attractive to schools like TCU, Houston, etc.  The fact that they are looking to upgrade FCS schools in their current geographical footprint show that they don't take football as seriously as they should...and it is going to continue to hurt them in the long run.

[Coleman]

I don't think it's a bad idea, but if they had the pieces in place to make the move without significant investment they would have already accepted instead of taking until the end of the year to try to find out if it's doable.  They play in a glorified high school stadium with a 12,500 listed capacity.  I think they can draw 15,000 if they compete in the Big East, but I just don't see how with the space issues they can come close to having an average of 15,000; they might get a few hundred more seats by putting lawn chairs on top of the Pavillion but it would require some major investment and probably a relocation to get even a reasonable 20-25k seats.

It's possible they could get Lincoln Financial, and I think the Philadelphia fanbase with many local non-alumni loving Nova sports can draw upwards of 30k, but not a capacity crowd.  And it'll hurt more because realistically they're looking at 5-6 home games each year: two on Saturdays and with Temple getting first priority three others on Thursday, Friday, or Sunday.  The Big East has put games on Thursday or Friday on ESPN for one simple reason: it's not good enough to get television time on Saturday when competing with the other conferences.  This will just add more to the garbage heap.  And even with the big venue, could Nova with Big East support consistantly draw respectable crowds at Lincoln Financial if Penn State and maybe a team like Maryland come every three years, then Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers each come every other year?  Keep in mind Temple – Nova drew 32,000 this year (capacity is close to 70k); with Nova in the Big East maybe it can get closer to 40k, and if that's for the intra-city game counting on Pitt, WVU, or Rutgers to come up with 50,000 fans at away games might be a stretch.

Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.

Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.

Also, with a "real" (BCS) football program might come more donations, fan interest, nationally televised games, apparel sales, fan giveaways, etc. Its not like their attendance is going to stay exactly like it was without all of those things.

[GGGG]

Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.

Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.

Listen to what you are saying.  You are saying that a BCS conference program should be able to draw 10,000 a game.  Do you really think that adds something to the conference?

[chapman]

Listen to what you are saying.  You are saying that a BCS conference program should be able to draw 10,000 a game.  Do you really think that adds something to the conference?

Exactly.  They would have no problem being FBS eligible, but that means nothing.  Big Ten and SEC teams can draw capacity crowds for every single home game, 80,000+ and the rest of the state watching on television.  Season tickets for these schools require huge donations, and at least in UW-Madison's case another huge donation just for parking.  Nova would be trying to fill Lincoln Financial to half capacity, probably getting two or three Saturdays and the rest on non-traditional days due to having lower priority than a MAC team, and they would be banking on visitors buying up their tickets just to accomplish half capacity.  They add little to the television draw - can't compete with Penn State and don't add much viewership that Pitt or Rutgers doesn't already get since the market is already in Big East territory.  I don't think the idea is "terrible"; they need a balanced schedule and the geography works.  It's just that a conference already at a disadvantage would be adding a FCS team while the competition is adding giants like Nebraska and Utah.

[HouWarrior]

You are right that the realities are simple, football drives the train.  This is why I've said realignment is not over and will ultimately kill us.  That being said, I'm hopeful that Tagliabue or whomever can try and do something to make it work if he can.  

I'm sure they are not thinking about Temple because there is so much bad blood after the divorce.  Very bad stuff.  

It's not to say bball isn't important, it is.....it's just that football is MORE important in terms of the big picture of $$$, etc.   It's only a matter of time when there will be 4 or 5 super conferences and basketball will have to figure out what they are going to do.    If I were the Big East, I'd try to continue the expansion into some other large cities if I could.  University of Houston, Texas Christian (Dallas) would be two starters.  You get two Texas teams to form a rivalry, two bowl teams, and one that is dying for a BCS tie in which the Big East still has.  Or go for East Carolina.  But at the end of the day, they have to fix the football in order for this to even have a remote chance.

AD Mac Rhoades (fomerly with MU athl. dept.)is doing great at UH--by giving alums who donated their time only and by treating their time donation the same  as UH would  treat a big $$ donor (enhanced seating locations, invites to private functions, etc)-- an army of UH supporters gave huge amounts of their time and helped sell tens of thousands of tickets, including a sellout of the entire UH football schedule. This will be a big boost to the UH $169 million stadium construction and Hofheinz remodel. When all the facility upgrade  is done-- UH will consider themselves well suited to a Big 12 or BE conference joinder. Go Coogs!

BTW, as time is valuable-

- why not have MU rip off the Mac Rhoades/UH idea and offer those MU alums giving time on phone banks, alumni club work, admissions/college nights, etc., get "credit" for the effort (reward could be Blue and Gold points credit for better seating rights at the Bradley).  Such encourages alums (esp recent grads-still paying off student loans), , not just to throw $, but give MU some of their valuable time--- and get a credit/benefit.

[goodgreatgrand]

Even if Nova only drew 32k again for a Temple matchup, that's still 17,000+ what they need to average, which is huge for such a small football home schedule, it basically means they could draw 6,500 the next two games and still be on pace.

Another way to think about it is if they could manage to draw 40,000 for a Temple matchup, they would only have to draw an average of 10,000 for all of its other home games...pretty doable.

Also, with a "real" (BCS) football program might come more donations, fan interest, nationally televised games, apparel sales, fan giveaways, etc. Its not like their attendance is going to stay exactly like it was without all of those things.

Lmao!! Quite possibly the dumbest comment I have ever heard regarding conference expansion. Priceless.

[ChicosBailBonds]

AD Mac Rhoades (fomerly with MU athl. dept.)is doing great at UH--by giving alums who donated their time only and by treating their time donation the same  as UH would  treat a big $$ donor (enhanced seating locations, invites to private functions, etc)-- an army of UH supporters gave huge amounts of their time and helped sell tens of thousands of tickets, including a sellout of the entire UH football schedule. This will be a big boost to the UH $169 million stadium construction and Hofheinz remodel. When all the facility upgrade  is done-- UH will consider themselves well suited to a Big 12 or BE conference joinder. Go Coogs!

BTW, as time is valuable-

- why not have MU rip off the Mac Rhoades/UH idea and offer those MU alums giving time on phone banks, alumni club work, admissions/college nights, etc., get "credit" for the effort (reward could be Blue and Gold points credit for better seating rights at the Bradley).  Such encourages alums (esp recent grads-still paying off student loans), , not just to throw $, but give MU some of their valuable time--- and get a credit/benefit.

Mack and I were supposed to get together next weekend as Houston comes to town to play UCLA.  Unfortunately I'll be in Colorado for my sister's 40th birthday.  Mack is good people and will be a BCS AD before all is said and done.  He's very bright, would love to have him as MU's AD but know that will never happen.

[GGGG]

It's just that a conference already at a disadvantage would be adding a FCS team while the competition is adding giants like Nebraska and Utah.

That's exactly right.  The Big Ten didn't expand by adding Northern Iowa and the Pac Ten didn't expand by adding Cal Poly.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Wouldn't necessarily have to play on campus or at the Linc.

I follow MLS pretty closely and rumor has Nova moving into Philadelphia Union's new 18,500-seat stadium, which could easily be expanded to 20-25k.

[hoyasincebirth]

I think people are missing the point on the football schools inviting Nova.

It's not about adding value as it is about cutting ties to the basketball only schools. There aren't a lot of schools out there that can add value to the football conference that make sense. The conference isn't going to vote for adding from the outside. By getting Nova to the football side the football schools control the voting and can more easily split. It even makes the split actually make sense for the football schools since it would be taking one of the few valuable bball only teams with it. It gives them their 9 for scheduling purposes and then they're free to add more teams if they so choose. I think nova moving to the football side would probably split the conference rather than helping to keep it together.

I'm skeptical if nova will go for this because I don't see it being the smart move financially. They will lose money on football and I don't think they have the fan base to support it. Nova is about 2,000 students smaller than marquette is. A lot off people in philly support nova in basketball, but everyone in the area is a penn st fan when it comes to football. Why would they jump ship for Nova/BE football.
Basically the consensus for Nova is the only realistic stadium option is the soccer stadium which will only seat 22,000 max( if they bring in the extra seating). They can't use the linc, so even their best home games will only get 22,000 fans. coupled with the bad drawing games they're sure to have because they can't get good teams for all their games it's suspect if they can reach the 15,000 average.

I also think people are overblowing expansion. If the B10 wanted the big east schools, it could've had them by now. It only took nebraksa, because they were the only team worth having. Now the big 10, pac 10, SEC, and ACC all have 12 schools and the b12 is happy with their 10 team setup since texas controls the conference. I don't think there's going to be any more movement. It's not out of the question, but I don't think it's likely.  I don't think we'll ever go to the 16 team super football conferences I think it's just splitting the pie too much and not enough quality footb

[ChicosBailBonds]

I respectfully disagree Hoya.  I don't think the Big Ten is done.  In fact, the comments from Delaney, Alvarez, etc, lead directly to more expansion in the coming years.  The question is when.  With the new realignment within the Big Ten (the two divisions), both stated that the current alignment not only sets up for now but for continued additions down the road. 

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I respectfully disagree Hoya.  I don't think the Big Ten is done.  In fact, the comments from Delaney, Alvarez, etc, lead directly to more expansion in the coming years.  The question is when.  With the new realignment within the Big Ten (the two divisions), both stated that the current alignment not only sets up for now but for continued additions down the road.  

I'm not entirely sure where the Big Ten would go. There's not really any programs worth adding. The only way I could see further Big Ten expansion is if ND ever decides to join, and frankly, if they didn't join this most recent time around, I can't see them ever joining. B10 would then need a 14th team to balance the divisions.

Rutgers and Syracuse (might) deliver the New York TV market, but they're lousy football schools, and would indisputably weaken Big Ten football, and be the ugly stepsister to Notre Dame.

Pitt might give the Big Ten decent football, but this is a team that doesn't even dominate the Big East. Pitt has only won the Big East once, and that was in a four-way tie. Nebraska at least rules the Big Twelve North. (5 Big 12 North titles, more than any other school). However, it gives the Big Ten Network no new markets, as Penn State already has the Pittsburgh market.

Missouri adds little in the way of football or basketball, and only delivers the KC market. Having lived in St. Louis the last three years, I can tell you that Big 10 Network is already advertised in cable packages there, and Illinois gets plenty of local pub.

[Coleman]

Lmao!! Quite possibly the dumbest comment I have ever heard regarding conference expansion. Priceless.

Do you have anything to add to the conversation?

You can disagree with me but I don't see what you're bringing to the discussion...

[hoyasincebirth]

It seemed like the talk about stealing big east teams was to force ND's hand. And ND wasn't buying it. With BYU's move to independence ND's position is strengthened. They have no incentive to ever give up independence. Conferences aren't going to expand just to expand. The conferences have their championship games now, so why dilute the pot with weak programs from the big east. Again if they were going to take a big east school, why didn't they do it already?

[ChicosBailBonds]

It seemed like the talk about stealing big east teams was to force ND's hand. And ND wasn't buying it. With BYU's move to independence ND's position is strengthened. They have no incentive to ever give up independence. Conferences aren't going to expand just to expand. The conferences have their championship games now, so why dilute the pot with weak programs from the big east. Again if they were going to take a big east school, why didn't they do it already?

Because the power brokers, notably ESPN, paid a lot of money to stop it....for the moment. 

[GGGG]

Chicos, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ESPN promised a lot of money?  I don't think those contracts ever have been signed.

I think you are both right.  The B10 will expand if they can find the right school.  The problem is that there are no willing partners that could be called the right school.

[hoyasincebirth]

Because the power brokers, notably ESPN, paid a lot of money to stop it....for the moment. 

They paid to stop the big 12 from being torn a part not the big east.  In fact if they hadn't the big east woud've benefited by adding the left over big 12 teams.

[ChicosBailBonds]

They paid to stop the big 12 from being torn a part not the big east.  In fact if they hadn't the big east woud've benefited by adding the left over big 12 teams.

That's correct...but by stopping that short term domino (the Big 12), it stopped a bunch of others from falling.  The Big 12 is still in tact, but if had broken up, the SEC was getting bigger, the Pac Ten much bigger, etc....the rest of the dominoes then fall too.

[bamamarquettefan]

Unfortunately, Nova does have the talent level to step up.  Last year the Massey Ratings - which is pretty accurate in predicting - picked Villanova as the 34th best football team in the country, so there would be no ramp up.  This is very bad news, because so far Georgetown-Marquette-Nova have formed a nice trio to show that basketball-only works.  Here is the top 40 according to Massey.

Alabama 14 0
Florida 13 1
Texas 13 1
Boise St 14 0
TCU 12 1
Virginia Tech 10 3
Cincinnati 12 1
Ohio St 11 2
Penn St 11 2
LSU 9 4
Georgia Tech 11 3
Oregon 10 3
Iowa 11 2
Arkansas 8 5
BYU 11 2
Mississippi 9 4
Nebraska 10 4
Pittsburgh 10 3
Miami FL 9 4
Oklahoma 8 5
Clemson 9 5
Georgia 8 5
Auburn 8 5
Texas Tech 9 4
Utah 10 3
USC 9 4
Wisconsin 10 3
Connecticut 8 5
North Carolina 8 5
Tennessee 7 6
Florida St 7 6
West Virginia 9 4
Stanford 8 5
Villanova 14 1
Arizona 8 5
Oklahoma St 9 4
Oregon St 8 5
South Carolina 7 6
C Michigan 12 2
Mississippi St 5 7