Nova officially asked by BE to join for football.

[goodgreatgrand]

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20100910_BIG_UPS_.html


"The Big East very recently communicated its interest in adding Villanova as a football member," Villanova athletic director Vince Nicastro told the Daily News yesterday. "As a result, we have decided to embark on an in-depth evaluation of this opportunity.

No timetable for a decision has been set. Sources said that in a best-case scenario, the Big East would like to have an answer by the end of the year. The conference presidents hold their annual meeting in November, and aren't scheduled to meet again until March. The Big Ten has its meetings in December, at which point it is expected to discuss additional expansion. The names of Big East teams reportedly have come up in past talks about the Big Ten.

If the Big East football schools ever went their separate ways, as many have projected, that would leave the Wildcats in the non-football half of the 16-team conference. That means Villanova would lose basketball opponents Connecticut, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida.

With Villanova's renewed national basketball profile, it would be important for the school to protect its brand and the football program could help.

[GGGG]

I am absolutely amazed that the BE thinks this is a good idea for their football future.  They play in a rinky-dink stadium (12,500) that apparently is too small for FBS requirements, and cannot be expanded.  So they have to move off campus somewhere.

If the BE was going to really be serious about football, get a program like East Carolina or Central Florida that regularly play in front of 40,000+ crowds.  Don't create another Temple-type program that isn't going to be well supported.  A couple of years ago, Nova played Temple at Lincoln Financial Field, and the crowd was around 30,000...for basically two home teams. 

Not a good idea.

[goodgreatgrand]

I am absolutely amazed that the BE thinks this is a good idea for their football future.  They play in a rinky-dink stadium (12,500) that apparently is too small for FBS requirements, and cannot be expanded.  So they have to move off campus somewhere.

If the BE was going to really be serious about football, get a program like East Carolina or Central Florida that regularly play in front of 40,000+ crowds.  Don't create another Temple-type program that isn't going to be well supported.  A couple of years ago, Nova played Temple at Lincoln Financial Field, and the crowd was around 30,000...for basically two home teams. 

Not a good idea.

Keep in mind that Marinatto is a big part of this front-office decision. So, of course, it's a stupid idea. The reason he's inviting Nova is because he doesnt want to spoil his precious basketball conference. You cant add a new full-time member so football can get to 9 teams without creating major problems with basketball. Moving Nova up enables bball to stay the same and gives football #9. Most obvious option available. I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.

TCU is the dream option.

[GGGG]

Keep in mind that Marinatto is a big part of this front-office decision. So, of course, it's a stupid idea. The reason he's inviting Nova is because he doesnt want to spoil his precious basketball conference. You cant add a new full-time member so football can get to 9 teams without creating major problems with basketball. Moving Nova up enables bball to stay the same and gives football #9. Most obvious option available. I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.

Yep.  Another decision driven by basketball.  And don't for a minute that becasue it was a basketball decision, it will help Marquette.  This makes it actually easier for the football schools to go their own way.  (Which might be exactly why this decision was made come to think of it...)

[goodgreatgrand]

Temple's contract with Lincoln Field ends in 2017. The school paid $15M towards construction for 15 years. No chance in hell Nova can afford that. One more mouth to feed which means the other 8 fball schools will have to suck it up in hopes that Nova can be a money maker in the future (Im not even sure there is enough money to go around to begin with). Gee, the B10 adds Nebraska because they are certain the school can bring in at least 20 M per year. Meanwhile, the BE wants to bring in Nova despite the certainty they will not make any money at all for many years. Brilliant. Fu*king brilliant.

[GGGG]

The only thing that they might be doing is trying to create a "football majority" where they now have 9 schools, can leave the Bball schools behind, and add three additional members for a 12 team conference and a championship game.

That would require vision and forethought though...and this is the BE we are talking about here.

[goodgreatgrand]

That would require vision and forethought though...and this is the BE we are talking about here.

The BE kicked out a Philly school that had a 1-A history and a large stadium so that 10 years later the BE could add a Philly school with no 1-A history and no stadium.

Is this an example of the vision and forethought you speak of?

Can someone please put BE fball and the Prov front-office out of its misery? I cant watch this tradegy unfold any longer. 

[Coleman]

Is this really that bad of an idea? 8 teams is incredibly small for a BCS football conference. We already have 16 in the conference, so you can't bring in anymore. If the Big East wants to maintain its position for an auto-big in the BCS, it has to do something. I could see Georgetown getting a similar invite if they ever got their act together, which would bring the conference to a nice round 10 teams.

[Coleman]

and why exactly, can't Villanova add more stands? What is the minimum a BCS stadium needs to have? I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it happen.

[rocky_warrior]

Not a good idea.

The BE is DOOOMED I tell you, DOOMED!

You guys certainly make conference happenings more dramatic than a soap opera.  Your acting is better though, kudos.

[ChicosBailBonds]

and why exactly, can't Villanova add more stands? What is the minimum a BCS stadium needs to have? I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it happen.

It's not so much how many stands but how large the crowds are.  To maintain DI status you need a minimum number of fans to attend on average.  That's one of the reasons UNLV brings in Wisconsin every other reason, so a bunch of overweight folks can fill their stands and meet their average.   

15,000 are required on average for home games on a rolling 2 year average


Football Bowl Subdivision Requirements
An institution classified in Football Bowl Subdivision shall meet all the Division I membership
requirements set forth in NCAA Division I Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:

1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the
minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20.
Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams
(males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all
female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight
varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.7.1]

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football
Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule and play at least five regular season home
contests against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.7.2]

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a
rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall
football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million
dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

[GGGG]

Is this really that bad of an idea? 8 teams is incredibly small for a BCS football conference. We already have 16 in the conference, so you can't bring in anymore. If the Big East wants to maintain its position for an auto-big in the BCS, it has to do something. I could see Georgetown getting a similar invite if they ever got their act together, which would bring the conference to a nice round 10 teams.

Expansion is not necessarily a bad idea at all...but the team they are adding has a small support base, small stadium and isn't really going to be all that good.  In an era where $$ is determined by eyeballs, and therefore large public universities generally dominate, the BE is upgrading a small private university.

[goodgreatgrand]

Victor, if there is a position open in the BE front-office, I will gladly write you a referral. You'll fit right in!

Temple couldnt maintain 15K fans for home games. f.i.f.t.e.e.n. thousand....

Bad idea? No...not at all. Arent all the major conferences kicking the tires of FCS teams? I bet the B10 will go after Weber St while the PAC10 goes after Prairie View A&M as copy-cat moves. Suddenly, the BE is a TREND SETTER!!! hell yeah!

Add a program already in the geographic footprint? Yeah, great. I wonder if any other BE schools recruit in New England? Let's see, the best recruits go to Nova, then the rest of the conference struggles. The best recruits go to schools other than Nova and the conference struggles because Nova cant sustain itself. Perfect. Let's cannibalize the conference. I could go on and on but what the point?

[HouWarrior]

Suggested thread title (read aloud):
"Howie Long to have Villanova  join BE in football "

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

The BE is DOOOMED I tell you, DOOMED!

You guys certainly make conference happenings more dramatic than a soap opera.  Your acting is better though, kudos.

+1

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think what some of you are missing is that this isn't the only school they will invite.  They are trying to add another DI school that currently plays football and potentially add Nova as well.  The idea is to keep the hoops schools together and bolster football.  Nova doesn't bolster football and wouldn't for at least a decade if they could even get there.....remember how many folks said UCONN football would never make it and they did.

The question becomes who is the other member they add, will they be added for football only or also hoops (if so, then you have to add still another member).

At the end of the day, adding Nova is just one of either 2 or 3 teams they would go with, and it's no slam dunk that Nova even accepts the opportunity (many reasons not to).

Unlikely won't be Memphis but there are other schools they have been looking at.

[GGGG]

I think what some of you are missing is that this isn't the only school they will invite.  They are trying to add another DI school that currently plays football and potentially add Nova as well.  The idea is to keep the hoops schools together and bolster football.  Nova doesn't bolster football and wouldn't for at least a decade if they could even get there.....remember how many folks said UCONN football would never make it and they did.

Don't forget that the State of Connecticut funded almost the entire cost of building Rentschler Field, to the tune of nearly $100M.  Furthermore, being the "state school" gives them a larger fan-base as well.  These are advantages that Nova will not have.

[Coleman]

I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.

I think success will bring in crowds. They are defending FCS national champion, and will get a bunch more scholarships. Temple had been bad for a long time...so their crowds sucked. I don't think you can really compare a stale, stagnant program with an up and coming one.

There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come.  Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it. 

[avid1010]

I really hope they arent paying Tagliabue to come up with crap like this.

Clearly they should have hired you over Tagliabue.  You may not like the move, but I'm comfortable with Tagliabue being involved.  If it doesn't make sense, at worst, I think it's safe to say it was the best option available.  He's better at this than you.

[chapman]

I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.

I think success will bring in crowds. They are defending FCS national champion, and will get a bunch more scholarships. Temple had been bad for a long time...so their crowds sucked. I don't think you can really compare a stale, stagnant program with an up and coming one.

There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come.  Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it.  

I don't think it's a bad idea, but if they had the pieces in place to make the move without significant investment they would have already accepted instead of taking until the end of the year to try to find out if it's doable.  They play in a glorified high school stadium with a 12,500 listed capacity.  I think they can draw 15,000 if they compete in the Big East, but I just don't see how with the space issues they can come close to having an average of 15,000; they might get a few hundred more seats by putting lawn chairs on top of the Pavillion but it would require some major investment and probably a relocation to get even a reasonable 20-25k seats.

It's possible they could get Lincoln Financial, and I think the Philadelphia fanbase with many local non-alumni loving Nova sports can draw upwards of 30k, but not a capacity crowd.  And it'll hurt more because realistically they're looking at 5-6 home games each year: two on Saturdays and with Temple getting first priority three others on Thursday, Friday, or Sunday.  The Big East has put games on Thursday or Friday on ESPN for one simple reason: it's not good enough to get television time on Saturday when competing with the other conferences.  This will just add more to the garbage heap.  And even with the big venue, could Nova with Big East support consistantly draw respectable crowds at Lincoln Financial if Penn State and maybe a team like Maryland come every three years, then Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers each come every other year?  Keep in mind Temple – Nova drew 32,000 this year (capacity is close to 70k); with Nova in the Big East maybe it can get closer to 40k, and if that's for the intra-city game counting on Pitt, WVU, or Rutgers to come up with 50,000 fans at away games might be a stretch.

[GGGG]

There will be ways for them to get their average above 15k....schedule nearby schools with huge fan bases, such as Penn St. Plus Rutgers and Pitt are close drives. People will come.  Joining the Big East in itself will boost crowds at least a couple thousand for the first year. Now, they will have to win to sustain those crowds because novelty wears off. But I bet they would be able to do it. 

What makes you think Penn State, who plays in front of 90K every week, is going to travel to Villanova?  Simply put, no BCS conference would even think about adding Villanova, or any other FCS program.  That's stuff reserved for the WAC and the Sun Belt.  BCS programs don't have to work to stay above 15,000.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm not completely convinced this is the right thing to do, I was just surprised by how many people thought it was a terrible idea.

There were exactly 2 people who posted (several times) before you, that's a far cry from "many people" on this board, but those two are outspoken on BE issues.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't forget that the State of Connecticut funded almost the entire cost of building Rentschler Field, to the tune of nearly $100M.  Furthermore, being the "state school" gives them a larger fan-base as well.  These are advantages that Nova will not have.

Very valid points. 

I'm just saying there have been a number of programs over the years that people said would never amount to anything.  If 10 years ago you said Boise State would be preseason top 5 in 2010 they would put you in a straight jacket.  If 20 years ago you said Wisconsin would win more than 2 games a season consistently they would do the same.  Northwestern to the Rose Bowl.  UCONN starting a team and going to bowl games.  South Florida being ranked #2 in the nation 2/3rds of the way into the season just a few years ago.  Tulane vying for a BCS bowl.  TCU making it.  Utah finishing top 5...TWICE in the last 7 years.  Etc, etc. 

Do I think Nova will accomplish any of these things?  Nope.  I'm hard pressed to imagine any of these scenarios in Philadelphia, a pro town that has incredibly fickle fans.  But nothing is impossible.

[goodgreatgrand]

Very valid points. 

I'm just saying there have been a number of programs over the years that people said would never amount to anything.  If 10 years ago you said Boise State would be preseason top 5 in 2010 they would put you in a straight jacket.  If 20 years ago you said Wisconsin would win more than 2 games a season consistently they would do the same.  Northwestern to the Rose Bowl.  UCONN starting a team and going to bowl games.  South Florida being ranked #2 in the nation 2/3rds of the way into the season just a few years ago.  Tulane vying for a BCS bowl.  TCU making it.  Utah finishing top 5...TWICE in the last 7 years.  Etc, etc. 

Do I think Nova will accomplish any of these things?  Nope.  I'm hard pressed to imagine any of these scenarios in Philadelphia, a pro town that has incredibly fickle fans.  But not is impossible.

I dont understand why the BE hasnt weighed Temple's lack of sucess relative to Nova's projected success. Its so obvious. Providence has a basketball-first mentality. We are the only conference with this mindset. Its so amusing to me the amount of homers on this website that simply think everything will be ok. So dumb. As a follower of the BE for most of my life, I hope Syracuse gets invited to the ACC and ND accepts the B10 invite. What will these homers think then? So many on this board think that bball is actually important. Its really amusing sometimes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I dont understand why the BE hasnt weighed Temple's lack of sucess relative to Nova's projected success. Its so obvious. Providence has a basketball-first mentality. We are the only conference with this mindset. Its so amusing to me the amount of homers on this website that simply think everything will be ok. So dumb. As a follower of the BE for most of my life, I hope Syracuse gets invited to the ACC and ND accepts the B10 invite. What will these homers think then? So many on this board think that bball is actually important. Its really amusing sometimes.

You are right that the realities are simple, football drives the train.  This is why I've said realignment is not over and will ultimately kill us.  That being said, I'm hopeful that Tagliabue or whomever can try and do something to make it work if he can. 

I'm sure they are not thinking about Temple because there is so much bad blood after the divorce.  Very bad stuff. 

It's not to say bball isn't important, it is.....it's just that football is MORE important in terms of the big picture of $$$, etc.   It's only a matter of time when there will be 4 or 5 super conferences and basketball will have to figure out what they are going to do.    If I were the Big East, I'd try to continue the expansion into some other large cities if I could.  University of Houston, Texas Christian (Dallas) would be two starters.  You get two Texas teams to form a rivalry, two bowl teams, and one that is dying for a BCS tie in which the Big East still has.  Or go for East Carolina.  But at the end of the day, they have to fix the football in order for this to even have a remote chance.