Maybe MU should Not Be In The Big East Anymore

[SacWarrior]

So, for both of you, in the hypothetical above you have no problem with dumping/buzzcutting the next lowest level recruit with a signed NLI for no other reason than because he's not as good a basketball player.

Which means that you do not place value on MU following through and honoring the commitments that it makes to it's recruits.

It also means that you should have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with what Tyshawn Taylor did two years ago because he simply had an offer available to him from a better basketball program.  And you would have no problem if Jones decided to not honor his NLI because a spot opened up at UCLA.  If it's ok for MU, it should be ok for the recruits right?

I had no problem with what Ty Tay did to us. This is a business and we have to do everything in our power to put the best team we cna on the court, and if he didn't want to be a part of it then fine, we have to move on.

And I hope this doesn't become a habit with Buzz but the opportunity presented itself and he reacted accordingly. I hope he doesn't go out looking for these opportunities in the future though.

[PGsHeroes32]

I agree with doing what can be done to win ballgames. If recurits want to do the same and leave for better teams, Im fine with that as well. Only Jmay pissed me off because he was a selfish bastard and didnt leave for the opportunity of a better team like taylor with kansas.


Buzz has now ended up with the top dogs of Wisco and proven that he will do what it takes to build a winner. Our depth in 2 years will be unreal even without some of the top 2011 recruits we are still looking to get(dawson and faust). Thats all I ask for. Hes a great guy that the players love and is just trying to help us succeed.

I like haing alot of 4 year players, but sometimes you have to be like the big boys of UK and KU if you want to go far. Sometimes you have to look for talent over everything else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

THANK YOU. None of us do. I can reasonably guess its somewhere in the middle of each story we've heard.

Chicos- If you have any inside info on this, spill it. Because all you're doing now is regurgitating the talking points of one side of this story. A lot. I'd be willing to bet the majority here are freaking tired of reading it.

And all other people are doing is regurgitating the other side of the story.  There's no balance, that's why I'm providing the other view.

Legally, they are looking at their options is what I understand.  That's all I can say at this point and as much as I'm going to "spill" at this point.

If you want the 100% Koolaid version, then stay over on the Scout board where it's one view and all others are scrubbed out or deleted.  Just how it is.

I remain concerned over the image of the university, some of you don't.  I cherish that we've never been put on NCAA probation and have generally had a high image of the program.  I believe that started to change in the final years of Crean and I haven't seen it change any differently.  That's fine for some....let's hope it all works out.  There can be a heavy price for pushing the envelope as there can also be heavy rewards.

[StillAWarrior]

... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them?  And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?

If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?

So, I say you take him.

Here's what I think you say to them:

"Guys, this is going to be one of the most important lessons I can teach you here at Marquette.  This is more important than basketball, and this lesson will serve you long after you give up the game.  Honor your word.  If you tell someone you're going to do something, do it.  If you say you won't do something, don't.  One of the single most important things that you can do in this world is to be a man of your word.  If you ever lose that reputation, it is very, very hard to get it back.

"I told each and every one of you guys that you were part of this team, and I meant it.  I'm not going to cut any of you loose today just because Kyrie Irving called me.  He's a great player.  Probably better than any of you.  He would definitely make us a better team.  But I'm a man of my word and we don't have room for him.  If any one of you believes that in the best interest of the program you're willing to give up your scholarship to make room, we can talk about that.  But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone here to do that.  Now let's go kick Bucky's ass!"


I want to add that I am responding only to the question of what we'd do if another great player became available tomorrow -- would we clear a space for him.  I'm assuming that there are no other "conditional" NLI's out there and that everyone currently on the roster has a full expectation of remaining with the program.  I'm not taking a position here on the Newbill situation.

Based upon what I've heard from Buzz on many occasions, this is near what I'd expect from him.  This is what I'd hope he'd say.

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's what I think you say to them:

"Guys, this is going to be one of the most important lessons I can teach you here at Marquette.  This is more important than basketball, and this lesson will serve you long after you give up the game.  Honor your word.  If you tell someone you're going to do something, do it.  If you say you won't do something, don't.  One of the single most important things that you can do in this world is to be a man of your word.  If you ever lose that reputation, it is very, very hard to get it back.

"I told each and every one of you guys that you were part of this team, and I meant it.  I'm not going to cut any of you loose today just because Kyrie Irving called me.  He's a great player.  Probably better than any of you.  He would definitely make us a better team.  But I'm a man of my word and we don't have room for him.  If any one of you believes that in the best interest of the program you're willing to give up your scholarship to make room, we can talk about that.  But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone here to do that.  Now let's go kick Bucky's ass!"

If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him.  Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court.  Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more?  He's done all of this within the rules.  Case closed.

[StillAWarrior]

If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him.  Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court.  Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more?  He's done all of this within the rules.  Case closed.

I couldn't possibly disagree more.  We'll agree to disagree because neither of is will convince the other.

[Tugg Speedman]

I remain concerned over the image of the university, some of you don't.  I cherish that we've never been put on NCAA probation and have generally had a high image of the program.  I believe that started to change in the final years of Crean and I haven't seen it change any differently.  That's fine for some....let's hope it all works out.  There can be a heavy price for pushing the envelope as there can also be heavy rewards.

Chico:

Image with who?  The few hundred fanatics like us on this board?  We don't matter.  99% of MU fans will not remember the name Newbill at midnight madness, just like they do not remember the name Roseboro or even Montrel Clark.

Our image with recruits?  You think this episode is honestly going to hurt us with Dawson or Faust?  If anything it will help us as this is a better team with Wilson.  

Our image with mediocre recruits?  Maybe but they are mediocre recruits.  You can find others.

Roseboro landed at St. Bonnies.  As someone earlier said, Newbill will probably end of at Temple.  In the long run these are better fits.

No one likes to get fired and I'm sure Newbill is upset and angry.  But we all know that these things often work out and this will for him as well.

[StillAWarrior]

If Buzz gave that speech, Cottingham should fire him.  Buzz gave his word in exchange for a paycheck to put the best possible team on the court.  Why does a conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit matter more?  He's done all of this within the rules.  Case closed.

And I should mention that I understood your example the hypotheticalto be if Kyrie Irving called tomorrow.  Thus, I didn't think we were talking about a "conditional NLI to a mediocre recruit."  I thought we were talking about making room from our current roster.  Unless, of course, you're suggesting that we've got another "mediocre recruit" on our team that currently has a "conditional NLI."

I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Edited to make clear that it wasn't AnotherMU84's hypothetical.

[Tugg Speedman]

I couldn't possibly disagree more.  We'll agree to disagree because neither of is will convince the other.

Newbill is not coming for free.  MU is prepared to spend $200k ($50k/year) on him in exchange for productivity on the basketball court.  Buzz owes it to all students, alumni who donate and the board of directors to spend this money wisely.  Adding Wilson means he did spend this money wisely.

If Newbill wants to go to MU so badly that he will give up basketball in exchange for financial assistance to attend MU, I will personally help him.  That said, I highly doubt he is interested.  He wanted to play for MU as he perceived it as the best program to advance his basketball skills, not his academics.  Given this, why do we owe him a spot?

[StillAWarrior]

Newbill is not coming for free.  MU is prepared to spend $200k ($50k/year) on him in exchange for productivity on the basketball court.  Buzz owes it to all students, alumni who donate and the board of directors to spend this money wisely.  Adding Wilson means he did spend this money wisely.

If Newbill wants to go to MU so badly that he will give up basketball in exchange for financial assistance to attend MU, I will personally help him.  That said, I highly doubt he is interested.  He wanted to play for MU as he perceived it as the best program to advance his basketball skills, not his academics.  Given this, why do we owe him a spot?

If you've been reading, you would know that I don't particularly have a problem with what happened with Newbill as long as the reports that Buzz made clear that he might be displaced by another recruit.  My comment was in response to the hypothetical:  what happens if another fabulous recruit shows up today?  You said that Buzz should make room for him (obviously meaning that another current player would have to go).  I disagree.

Although I certainly don't know all the facts, my personal belief is that Buzz probably didn't break his word to Newbill.  I'm inclined to think that Buzz was honest.  If Buzz were to kick another player out tomorrow, the facts would be very different.

[dbwarriors]

TJ seems to be offering the only rational arguments in this debate.  I hardly ever post on this board as I do not feel a need.  However, he actually provides logical thoughts in his statements.  Instead of babbling back & forth, hopefully people respond to his logical statements.

[Tugg Speedman]

Let me repeat myself.

If Buzz was not cheating "chaos" with the roster, here is what half our roster would be (assuming no one changed their mind since April 1 2008) ...

Pat Hazel
Mbao
Roseboro
Newbill
Reggie Smith
With the offense running through Maymon (per his father's wishes).

Also on the team would be (as they were in place on April 1, 2008):
Butler
Fulce
Mbawke
Scott C.
Ty Taylor
Two other recruits (you can pick from DJO, JJ, Blue, Crowder, EW, Junior, Dwight B and Outle)

If this was our team, We'd be looking at a second consecutive 4 and 12 season and Buzz would be on his way out.

Everyone wins with our changes ... even the recruits run off ... they are in better situations.


Thankfully Buzz is able to change.

[Big Papi]

... and when Crowder, DJO JJ and Blue demand to know from Buzz why they don't get to play with Irving, what do you tell them?  And when they question Buzz's commitment to winning because he passes on a guy like Irving, how do you tell them they are wrong?

If you pass on Irving don't you insult the rest of the team?

So, I say you take him.

You insult the team by saying we are a family and you have my back and I have yours except and to for when I can get someone better to replace you then I'll kick your you know what to the curb.  Sends a bad message in my book.  You don't offer something to someone and then take it back.  I don't know what the deal was with Newbill but you don't strip a scholarship from a player for no reason. 

[Hamostradamus]

Legally, they are looking at their options is what I understand.  That's all I can say at this point and as much as I'm going to "spill" at this point.

Chicos, if you had anything to "spill," I would actually eat my own ass. Unless you are a journalist or are employed by the University, then give.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, if you had anything to "spill," I would actually eat my own ass. Unless you are a journalist or are employed by the University, then give.

LOL.  Would Rosiak (whom I like), ever actually do anything ever to rock the apple cart with his MU connections?  Please.

Eat your ass?  Would it look like this?



or this?





I think Brad has the best information on this from the other party involved.  I suspect nothing happens other than a ton of hurt feelings, a kid ending up at a school other than where he was thought to have gone and a coach with a reputation that winning at all costs means just that.

[Hamostradamus]

Okay, that picture is actually pretty funny.

I'm sure Rosiak knows more than he reports, as does Rob Schultz, Eric Bossi, etc. Except for Peter King, who is merely a conduit for NFL players and has never actually known or reported anything of value, all reporters exercise that discretion, especially regarding medical or academic issues.

[GGGG]

Chico:

Image with who?  The few hundred fanatics like us on this board?  We don't matter.  99% of MU fans will not remember the name Newbill at midnight madness, just like they do not remember the name Roseboro or even Montrel Clark.

Yep.  And the story in the MJS was about Wilson coming here.  The fact that Newbill is heading somewhere else was buried so no one is going to care in a couple of weeks anyway.