Duke Bias

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you've just revealed what makes you happy in life Chicos - thus your controversial reputation here at MUScoop.  Do you really derive pleasure from seeing people pissed off?  Or did I interpret your comment incorrectly?  I guess just another difference between you and me my friend - I take gladness and happiness out of seeing other people rejoice, exalt, and being happy...not seeing them pissed off.

LOL....more than anything I like to shoot down crazy conspiracy talk and folks like Hayward that is so fast and loose with the facts you would think aliens killed JFK after Hayward was done with his stories.

No Ners, that's not what I get satisfaction out of.  This idea that Duke gets all the calls makes me scratch my head....were all the refs not getting the memos say the last few years?

Villanova beat them last year in the round of 16
West Virginia beat them the year before in the round of 32
Virginia Commonwealth knocked them out in the FIRST ROUND the year prior
LSU knocked them out in the round of 16 the year prior
MSU knocked them out in the round of 16 the year prior

Fact is, they haven't been anything other than a Sweet 16 team or less in the last 5 years until this year.  For Duke, that's a drought.

I just chuckle at some of this talk.  

The charge call was not an easy call....in slow motion for us all to see, maybe.  Charge - block is the toughest call in basketball and is a bang bang call most of the time.  

There looked to be a goal tending call that wasn't called against Baylor that Coach K was going ballistic about.   The technical was the CORRECT call.  They always catch someone that decides to get involved after the fact.  

Let's not forget this game was played in Houston, Texas and Baylor fans dominated that stadium.  They had their chances, they didn't do it.  The refs did not decide that game.  Offensive rebounding did and clutch shooting at the end.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, you realize with 1:36 left in the game the fouls were as follows


Baylor 14 personal fouls

Duke 15 personal fouls


In the last 1:36 with Duke up 7 points and Baylor needing to foul, they committed  7 fouls to try and extend the game

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=300870150&period=2

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300870150

[MUDPT]

I disagree on that particular charge block.  Acy clearly saw Zoubek coming at him.  Acy moved his body to avoid the contact and still got the charge call.  There are bang bang charge/ block calls where a guy is coming right down the lane and the defender slides over.  This wasn't even close.  Maybe I had a better angle at home than the ref did, who knows? 

[NersEllenson]

Ners, you realize with 1:36 left in the game the fouls were as follows


Baylor 14 personal fouls

Duke 15 personal fouls


In the last 1:36 with Duke up 7 points and Baylor needing to foul, they committed  7 fouls to try and extend the game

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=300870150&period=2

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300870150

That's one way of looking at it, but if you look closer you will also see that from the 8:48 to 1:19 mark, Baylor was called for 9 fouls, and 1 technical, duke called for 2 fouls in that stretch At the 8:48 mark Baylor was ahead 52-51.  Clearly things turned in the favor of Duke from this point forward, and as others have written, the charge call on Baylor's Acy against Zoubek was a huge call against Baylor - would have fouled Zoubek out at the 6:38 mark..and furthermore it wiped out the 2 point basket Acy made, and the And 1 option...and instead sends Zoubek to the line where he made 1 of 2 - so at minimum a 3 point swing, likely 4 point swing - and Duke gets to keep Zoubek in the game.


No matter how you look at it - the game was definitely whistled in Duke's favor down the stretch -  no other way to justify the 9-2 foul disparity I mentioned above - or the 19 free throw attempts by Duke, to 2 by Baylor.  I don't have anything against duke, just though Baylor got hosed.

[Daniel]

I think Coach K is well respected, has been around forever, has won forever and coached well forever - and the refs obviuously have a lot of respoct for him.  Newer coaches somtimes don't have that money in the banl yet.  We even said that on ths boards when Buzz was not getting some calls.

So, not a conspiracy, but Coack K has the respect of official for sure.

[beaconwarrior]

How many times in a college basketball season does a ref make the wrong "charge/block" call?

All of you are just looking for a reason as to why Duke won. Could it be offensive rebounding? Scheyer and Smith's clutch 3-pointers?

No, it's because Brian Zoubek (5 points) didn't foul out...are you guys serious?

I'm so sick of everyone saying "I hate Duke, they get all the calls and always win. Dickie V is on their nuts."

But when Dickie V raves about Izzo or Huggins, everyone agrees.

Look at the whole picture before you bash, debatably, the classiest program in the country.

[bma725]

How many times in a college basketball season does a ref make the wrong "charge/block" call?

All of you are just looking for a reason as to why Duke won. Could it be offensive rebounding? Scheyer and Smith's clutch 3-pointers?

No, it's because Brian Zoubek (5 points) didn't foul out...are you guys serious?

I'm so sick of everyone saying "I hate Duke, they get all the calls and always win. Dickie V is on their nuts."

But when Dickie V raves about Izzo or Huggins, everyone agrees.

Look at the whole picture before you bash, debatably, the classiest program in the country.

Classy programs don't associate themselves with guys like Myron Piggie.

[mugrad99]

Exactly.  In the second half, it looked like Duke was getting raped on a lot of calls inside as people were flailing all over the place. 

I'm glad Duke won, only because it pisses so many people off.  They graduate players, don't cheatget caught, etc....

Fixed it for you

[ATWizJr]

Classy programs don't associate themselves with guys like Myron Piggie.

Aw, c'mon, any program could have had a player they didn't know was being paid paid by an AAU coach/crack dealer! Snyder?

[CTWarrior]

Watched the Baylor/Duke game today, and before Baylor started to foul intentionally at end of the game, the free throw disparity in the 2nd half was Duke 19 attempts to Baylor's 2.  Duke got every borderline call, for Baylor to get a call, it had to be blatant.

I don't believe in conspiracies, but the block/charge call that they got wrong was an absolutely huge call, a game changer.  But at the time, Baylor was still ahead.  They lost the game by not controlling the defensive boards in crunch time (a trait, unfortunately, that is common to teams I am rooting for).

I will say this, however.  Any number 1 seed would have traded brackets with Duke in a heartbeat.  To say that they didn't have the easiest bracket set up in the tournament would be to deny the obvious.  They did manage to dodge the only potential land mine, which was Baylor in Texas, so they deserve credit or that.

[GGGG]

No matter how you look at it - the game was definitely whistled in Duke's favor down the stretch -  no other way to justify the 9-2 foul disparity I mentioned above - or the 19 free throw attempts by Duke, to 2 by Baylor.  I don't have anything against duke, just though Baylor got hosed.

"No other way?"  Maybe because Duke was playing better.  Seriously, sometimes I wonder if people actually watch these games...

[Moonboots]

I'm not in the group that thinks there's a full blown conspiracy, but there's gotta be something in the referees' general unconscious that leads to some of the calls Duke gets over the years.

Duke played MUCH better than Baylor in the second half, but that offensive foul call is about as bad as it gets. Zoubek came running over and leaned into Avy. It was worth an eye roll live, and was even more comical on replay.  I believe Baylor had come storming back and was on a mini 7-2 run right there. They should have had an opportunity for 10-2 run and some full blown momentum, if not for a horrific call.  Yes, horrific calls happen, but I can't EVER recall a truly horrific call being an influence against Duke in one of their games.  That hurt Baylor.

And the technical was no better.  With Scheyer swinging elbows wildly then prancing off with a smug smirk on his face, it was worth a technical, and probably an ass kicking for that matter.  Truthfully though, I think you either have to go no call or double tech right there.  To reward Duke for that is heinous.

[LON]

I'm not in the group that thinks there's a full blown conspiracy, but there's gotta be something in the referees' general unconscious that leads to some of the calls Duke gets over the years.

Duke played MUCH better than Baylor in the second half, but that offensive foul call is about as bad as it gets. Zoubek came running over and leaned into Avy. It was worth an eye roll live, and was even more comical on replay.  I believe Baylor had come storming back and was on a mini 7-2 run right there. They should have had an opportunity for 10-2 run and some full blown momentum, if not for a horrific call.  Yes, horrific calls happen, but I can't EVER recall a truly horrific call being an influence against Duke in one of their games.  That hurt Baylor.

And the technical was no better.  With Scheyer swinging elbows wildly then prancing off with a smug smirk on his face, it was worth a technical, and probably an ass kicking for that matter.  Truthfully though, I think you either have to go no call or double tech right there.  To reward Duke for that is heinous.

Was it as bad as this Scheyer face?  I missed that sequence during the game (and just wanted to post this picture):

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fixed it for you

And there were Wisconsin fans in the 1970's that made the same claims about MU and Marquette with various activities by alums, etc. 

I'm sorry, but when the book is written about shady Programs in NCAA history, I don't think Duke will be in the conversation

[ChicosBailBonds]

"No other way?"  Maybe because Duke was playing better.  Seriously, sometimes I wonder if people actually watch these games...

Please don't question those that have such high basketball iq's....higher than all of us.

[bma725]

I'm sorry, but when the book is written about shady Programs in NCAA history, I don't think Duke will be in the conversation

Funny, but the book has already been written, and it includes portions about Duke cheating.  See "Sole Influence" by Dan Wetzel and Don Yaeger.  

Unless of course you don't consider using an ineligible player to get to the Final Four as cheating.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I guess I will ask again, didn't Duke have MORE fouls called against them than Baylor until the last minute of the game?

[NersEllenson]

"No other way?"  Maybe because Duke was playing better.  Seriously, sometimes I wonder if people actually watch these games...

19-2 is a huge disparity, particularily when you consider Duke wasn't pounding the ball inside, nor were they attacking a whole lot off the dribble.  They moved the ball well in and out of the zone, and were hitting a lot of 3's.  Baylor's big man got tick tack fouls all game (exception being on the Scheyer 3).

I guess I will ask again, didn't Duke have MORE fouls called against them than Baylor until the last minute of the game?

And I guess I'll ask again, Baylor gets whistled for 9 fouls, plus the technical (which at best should have been a double technical, but the right call was no technical at that stage of the game, given what transpired) to Dukes 2 fouls from the 8:48 mark to the 1:19 mark??  But, you argue Duke had more fouls called against them up until the last minute of the game - yet they went to the Free Throw line 19 times, compared to 2 times for Baylor??  Not sure how that translates..but...C'mon Man.

[mu-rara]

Seriously,  these anti Duke threads are getting stupid.  I am by no means a Duke fan.  I have a kind of grudging respect for them based on how good they are, how they play as a team, how they graduate players, etc. Watch the game.  The Baylor player came out of nowhere with a stupid push right in front of the ref- he should have been called for a tech.

Scheyer incited the push, but the retaliator always gets nailed.

[GGGG]

Holy crap...

I just got an email from a Duke fan complaining about the home crowd for Baylor in Houston and how unfair it is to have teams playing road games in the tournament.  I then pointed out to him that Duke has played its opening round games in North Carolina five of the last ten years, and with Charlotte and Greensboro hosting first and second round games the next two years, Duke will probably be playing there too.

Talk about delusional...and I've been defending them in this thread too!

[ChicosBailBonds]

19-2 is a huge disparity, particularily when you consider Duke wasn't pounding the ball inside, nor were they attacking a whole lot off the dribble.  They moved the ball well in and out of the zone, and were hitting a lot of 3's.  Baylor's big man got tick tack fouls all game (exception being on the Scheyer 3).
And I guess I'll ask again, Baylor gets whistled for 9 fouls, plus the technical (which at best should have been a double technical, but the right call was no technical at that stage of the game, given what transpired) to Dukes 2 fouls from the 8:48 mark to the 1:19 mark??  But, you argue Duke had more fouls called against them up until the last minute of the game - yet they went to the Free Throw line 19 times, compared to 2 times for Baylor??  Not sure how that translates..but...C'mon Man.

So the fouls in the beginning of the game don't count, only the ones at the end?  Come on Man.  So in the first half it was anti-Duke but in the last 9 minutes they decided to turn on the pro-Duke bias?


Sorry, I don't see it your way.  I don't see any national outrage by the media on this either.   Baylor shot poorly from 3 point land and gave up huge offensive rebounds at the end.

[MarquetteDano]

Holy crap...

I just got an email from a Duke fan complaining about the home crowd for Baylor in Houston and how unfair it is to have teams playing road games in the tournament.  I then pointed out to him that Duke has played its opening round games in North Carolina five of the last ten years, and with Charlotte and Greensboro hosting first and second round games the next two years, Duke will probably be playing there too.

Talk about delusional...and I've been defending them in this thread too!

I know I am a bit OT with that Duke conspiracy stuff, but you should not be allowed to play in your home state until the Final Four.  Between UNC and/or Duke each year, they average 2-4 home games each year.  Ridiculous.

[Dawson Rental]

All this foul counting reminds me of a McGuire story.  The best comeback he ever got from a referee (and I think the only time he admitted not having a comeback) was when he yelled at some ref something like: "Hey, that's five calls in a row for those guys, how about a call for us"; and the ref turned and said: "Coach, I don't count 'em, I just call 'em."