Issues between Buzz and Tracy Webster?

[bma725]

bma - I thought Webster did play a big role in getting Richmond from Waukegan to committ to the Illini. IIRC, he committed to them a long time ago, he's freshman year, and I thought that was due in large-part by his and his family's relationship with Webster.

Yes and no.  Webster was his initial recruiter, and Richmond did commit at least in part because of him initially.  But when Webster left to go to Kentucky, Illinois basically had to start at square one.  Illinois basically had to re-recruit him because Richmond was going to open up his recruiting again, and the guy who convinced him not to was Jerrance Howard.

[MU B2002]

and the guy who convinced him not to was Jerrance Howard.

And a guy that was offered a job at MU not to long ago IIRC.


Note; I have had several interactions with Jerrance both during his high school days and after and always struck me as a really good kid.

[GGGG]

The notion that Tracy Webster is a good recruiter is one of the biggest myths out there.  The reality is he doesn't even come close to deserving the credit he gets from most people and for the most part he's a disappointing recruiter, not a good one.

He had one job at Illinois, get them the top young talent before the other schools around the country could get them, and he failed at it.  He couldn't make in roads in CPS despite being from the area, just generally pissed off the important people in the recruiting scene.  Illinois recruiting of Chicago and the state as a whole didn't get good until Webster was gone and replaced by Jerrance Howard.

Webster then went to went to Kentucky, where he was supposed to be able to lure the kids that he been trying to recruit to Illinois to come play for BCG.  But again, he couldn't do it.  At DePaul under Wainwright, he wasn't even the main guy for recruiting Chicago, that went to Billy Garrett.

Essentially he's earned this reputation for being a great recruiter on what people expect him to be able to do, rather than what he's actually done.  Because what he's done doesn't indicate any great ability.

bma emasculates me once again...   

[Avenue Commons]

Buzz probably told Webster he was fat and should start running and dieting.

The teapot shouldn't call the kettle black.

Or is it the sweet-tea pot calling the kettle black?

[mikeDEANmeminger]

Yes and no.  Webster was his initial recruiter, and Richmond did commit at least in part because of him initially.  But when Webster left to go to Kentucky, Illinois basically had to start at square one.  Illinois basically had to re-recruit him because Richmond was going to open up his recruiting again, and the guy who convinced him not to was Jerrance Howard.

who are you, Freakin Andy Katz?? Quit making information up to make yourself look like a know it all....
I'm pretty sure you don't climb the college basketball ranks the way Tracy Webster did unless you can recruit. That is how assistants make their living...half the D1 assistants out there aren't really that great of basketball coaches, they can just recruit and get the players the boss man wants. I don't think Tracy would have gone from UW-Parkside to Ball State to Purdue to Illinois to Kentucky unless the man could sign kids

[MU B2002]

I don't think Tracy would have gone from UW-Parkside to Ball State to Purdue to Illinois to Kentucky unless the man could sign kids

People get jobs everyday in every industry because others have a false impression of what they can do.  Why should coaching be any different?

[mikeDEANmeminger]

trust me, you cannot and do not go from UW-Parkside to the University of Kentucky in a matter of 10 to 15 years because of a "false impression" of what he can do. It doesn't happen

[StillAWarrior]

I don't think Tracy would have gone from UW-Parkside to Ball State to Purdue to Illinois to Kentucky* unless the man could sign kids

*You forgot, "to DePaul."

[mikeDEANmeminger]

+1
how could i have left that one out lol

[MU B2002]

Probably right, but sometimes I just get the impression that much of the coaching circuit is a "Good Old Boys Club" and jobs are given to guys based on who they are or who they know instead of what they can do.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

very valid point, and often it is "WHO you know and not WHAT yuo know" that gets you a job. but if you don't sign players, you will be out of a job real quick...or headed back to the likes of Ball State or UW Parkside.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

and often the guys taht get jobs are the ones who know AAU coaches, JUCO coaches and high school coaches who are producing players every day. you prove you can sign kids from a certain JUCO or AAU program or High School (madison memorial for example), you'll get a job casue you know those coaches and those coaches "give" you players

[StillAWarrior]

+1
how could i have left that one out lol

and


very valid point, and often it is "WHO you know and not WHAT yuo know" that gets you a job. but if you don't sign players, you will be out of a job real quick...or headed back to the likes of Ball State or UW Parkside.

My point was that his career trajectory might be heading the wrong way of late.  One could argue that UW Parkside to Ball State to Pursue to Illinois to Kentucky to DePaul to ??? might very well mean that he's "headed back to the likes of Ball State or UW Parkside."

He's had six jobs in 12 years.  Sounds like maybe he's been "out of a [couple of] jobs real quick."

I know assistants don't hang around long in a lot of places.  Time will tell how Webster's career pans out.

Think what you like, but BMA has shown that he knows quite a lot about these things.  If I heard one thing from BMA and another from Katz, I'd bank on the version I heard from BMA.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

lol first, you listen to who you want to listen to...I'm taking my dead grandmother's version over BMA's.

secondly, he left Kentucky cause his bossgot fired. Nothing he can personally do about that.
He left Illinois for a job at freakin Kentucky, one of the top 3 basketball programs of all time. and he probably got a pay raise of somewhere near $150 to $200 thousand a year by leaving UofI of UK. I'm pretty sure he will be OK, either being offered and taking the DePaul head job (unlikely), taking a head job at a mid-major program (much more likely) or taking another assistant position at a premier program. I don't think he will end up back at a "Ball State" type school after being an assistant in the SEC, Big 10 and Big East.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

but why argue about it?? BMA already knows where he is going to end up next year....

[StillAWarrior]

lol first, you listen to who you want to listen to...I'm taking my dead grandmother's version over BMA's.

secondly, he left Kentucky cause his bossgot fired. Nothing he can personally do about that.
He left Illinois for a job at freakin Kentucky, one of the top 3 basketball programs of all time. and he probably got a pay raise of somewhere near $150 to $200 thousand a year by leaving UofI of UK. I'm pretty sure he will be OK, either being offered and taking the DePaul head job (unlikely), taking a head job at a mid-major program (much more likely) or taking another assistant position at a premier program. I don't think he will end up back at a "Ball State" type school after being an assistant in the SEC, Big 10 and Big East.

I claim no inside knowledge and really don't know much about Webster.  But just from what I see on the surface, the jury is out.  I assumed he left KY because BCG got fired.  And I understand completely why he went to KY.  But the step from KY to DePaul is a huge, huge step down.  We'll wait to see his next step.

I've known a lot of people that have bounced around and seemingly moved up for years, until eventually everyone realizes that they're not that great.  Maybe Webster is like that, maybe he's not.  I have no idea.

But I respect BMA's opinion.  No disrespect meant to your grandmother -- she may be right on this one.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

#1 its tough to get a job after the whole staff gets fired that you were a part of.
#2 DePaul made a ton of sense for Tracy, being from the city and being able to come home, coming in as the top assistant as all of the DePaul staff was gone, and being able to position himself for the opportunity he has now, cause even at the beginning of the season, we all knew Wainwright was going to struggle to keep his job next year or even make it through this year (which turned out to be the case).
#3 Yes the DePaul job was a step down...But damn, he is still in the Big East. If he had got a job at Texas, that would have been a step down. A job at Duke, UConn, Syracuse, Indiana...I could go on and on, but all those are steps down from KENTUCKY! The only way you don't take a step backward after leaving Kentucky is if you get a job at UCLA or North Carolina.