With all this talent how can we not get a solid big?

[Rockmic87]

A huge part of it is the offense.  Look at how Otule talks and how Buzz talks about him.  His whole job is to get position so he can rebound when someone else misses.  He really isn't part of the offense.  Sure you can tell a talented recruiting target that they would get touches inside and they would be a bigger part of the offense than what that role has been in the past, but they're decision is going to be to go with the team whose offense has always utilized their bigs as more than an offensive rebounder. 

Trust me, if we had any descent big man, Hansbrough, Samuels, Blair, Thabbett, etc., im pretyy sure Buzz would get the ball down low and incorporate them into the offense!

[Rockmic87]

Why do we have to have this stupid discussion every month or so?????!!!!!!!!!!!


Bottom line unless you are UNC or Kansas or Ohio State you are not going to get the 5 star bigs.  In the meantime Buzz has had us in on some really nice bigs with potential and just missed out. 

So given where we and about 300 other D1 schools are in regards to big men what are our choices?????  well, we have 2 choices.  The first is to do what the previous regime did and that was to sign no bigs whatsoever.

The second option is to do what other successful programs do and that is sign big atletic bigs and develop them over time.  Now people are bitching about our dearth of bigs, but Buzz has done it right he got Otule, Mcmorrow, Mbao and Calrk in less than 18 months on the job.  Unfortunately 2 of them will not be with us.  But again the method that buzz is following is the right one...sign a big every year and work to develop him. By the time they are juniors they will be solid.  it simply takes that long.  In the meantime recruit like hell and hope you can find that player that is ready to perform as a frshman or a soph.

Sign a big every year and each year you have a junior and senior ready to perform and a freshman and sophomore in development.  unfortunately this process takes 4 years when you start with nothing.  Mu's problem this year and last is the previous regime did not stock the cupboard.  We have a freshman and a sophomore big, only.  Thanks to Buzz we have that, next year we will be closer.  i fully expect Buzz to continue to recruit a big, that at best will be ready to help next year and at worst will not be, but  after a couple of years of weight room and practice will be ready to contribute as a junior. 

People need to relax that is how other schools do it.  Just to our west Bo Ryan has done a wonderful job of it.  even using the redshirt to get the kids 5 years.  Guys like Butch, steinsma, nankivil, wilkinson, etc....none of them were superstars and none of them were counted on to achor the 5 position as freshman.  They were in many cases 4th year juniors before they even got any measurable time.  yet by that time they had put on 25+ lbs of muscle and could play in the system and worst casesdefend and rebound their position and as Buzz says not look like they just dropped in from Mars. 

Bigs take time to develop, the previous regime left Buzz a crater that cannot be filled over night.  georgetowns' Hibbert stunk until he was Junior, Aaron grey was terrible until he was a junior, Thabeet was terrible as a freshman, and the beat goes on... MU fans look at those guys and say why cant we get those guys?  well  most Mu fans probbaly did not even know they were on those teams rosters when they were freshmen... becuase they were playing behind junior and senior bigs.  Otule and Mboa will be very solid when they are a senior and junior.  Unfortunately right now they are a soph and a fresh.  Thank buzz for filling the pipeline. 

But were not even getting the Big guys in the state of WI to come to MU, recently (since Merrit and Jackson). Butch was a McDonalds All Americam and both steinsma and nankivil were in the top 100 for rivals. We even lost out on Mitchell Carter, even though he is garbage. Evan Anderson committed to UW (3 star) player for 2010. We have to at least start signing these guys, before we start thinking of competing all over the country with UNC, OSU, UCONN,etc for quality big men.

[bma725]

But were not even getting the Big guys in the state of WI to come to MU, recently (since Merrit and Jackson). Butch was a McDonalds All Americam and both steinsma and nankivil were in the top 100 for rivals. We even lost out on Mitchell Carter, even though he is garbage. Evan Anderson committed to UW (3 star) player for 2010. We have to at least start signing these guys, before we start thinking of competing all over the country with UNC, OSU, UCONN,etc for quality big men.

Given the culture of this state, we likely have better odds for getting a quality big man over those other schools than we do over UW.

[Marquette65]

MU does NOT need a 5 star big--It would be nice but not needed.  With the type of team Buzz seems to be building,  MU needs a surviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points--8 rebounds and play decent D inside.  Thats all.  Not asking for a whole lot but we can't even get that.  what a shame.

[chapman]

Trust me, if we had any descent big man, Hansbrough, Samuels, Blair, Thabbett, etc., im pretyy sure Buzz would get the ball down low and incorporate them into the offense!

That's my point exactly.  Do you go on the promise that the offensive style for the big man is going to change from "Offensive Rebounder" to someone who is actually part of the offense, and that that style will be effective for a coach who hasn't done it and at a school that hasn't done it in a long time?  Or do you go with a coach and/or a school that currently gets touches for its bigs and/or has a history of utilizing its bigs?

[StillAWarrior]

MU does NOT need a 5 star big--It would be nice but not needed.  With the type of team Buzz seems to be building,  MU needs a surviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points--8 rebounds and play decent D inside.  Thats all.  Not asking for a whole lot but we can't even get that.  what a shame.

Why does everyone assume Otule will be a total bust?  It is totally unreasonable to think that Otule will be "a serviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points -- 8 rebounds and play decent D inside?"  I don't think there are too many kids who can step in as a freshman or sophomore and give that kind of production.  It takes time to develop.  So, if the issue is why can't we find someone who can do that as a freshman, I think there answer is that there are damn few of those kids out there.  (Note, by the way that UNC has six players on their roster at 6' 8" or taller -- that doesn't leave a lot to go around.)  If the issue is why can't we (i.e. Buzz) develop someone who can do that, give it time.

I know I seem to be in a minority here, but I think that Otule will end up as a "servicable big" (as you defined it above). 

[GoldenWarrior]

I think Buzz needs to sell the idea of being THE big man for Marquette and with such strong guard play it won't allow teams to double down on him (whoever the big man potential) and would allow him to play immediately and dominate.  I understand that MU is a guard school, but there is something to say about being the big man around here.

[Rockmic87]

Why does everyone assume Otule will be a total bust?  It is totally unreasonable to think that Otule will be "a serviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points -- 8 rebounds and play decent D inside?"  I don't think there are too many kids who can step in as a freshman or sophomore and give that kind of production.  It takes time to develop.  So, if the issue is why can't we find someone who can do that as a freshman, I think there answer is that there are damn few of those kids out there.  (Note, by the way that UNC has six players on their roster at 6' 8" or taller -- that doesn't leave a lot to go around.)  If the issue is why can't we (i.e. Buzz) develop someone who can do that, give it time.

I know I seem to be in a minority here, but I think that Otule will end up as a "servicable big" (as you defined it above). 

It not about being upset with Otule or any of our current big, it's about consistently recruiting bigs to MU. We ideally need to have a big in each recruiting class, so that they are developing and after someone like Merrit/jackson, Barro, Burke, etc graduate, they can step in and be ready to contribute.

[Rockmic87]

Also, like I have said before, i think Buzz should consider hiring a big man coach as an assistant. This would help bigs feel like they can develop and not think that MU is only concerned about there guards!

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I HAD BEEN THINKING THE VERY SAME THING. YOU NEED A REPUTATION FOR DEVELOPING BIGS. LAST GUY WE HAD LIKE THAT WAS MAJERUS

[4everwarriors]

Rick was the best at developing eaters.

[El Duderino]

MU does NOT need a 5 star big--It would be nice but not needed.  With the type of team Buzz seems to be building,  MU needs a surviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points--8 rebounds and play decent D inside.  Thats all.  Not asking for a whole lot but we can't even get that.  what a shame.

I agree

I'd be extremely thrilled to get say a 6'10 guy that can defend decently a high quality big man on the marquee teams, that grabs boards, and on offensive can put back some misses or make layups/dunks if defenses sag on one of our penetrators. I'd take that over another say 4-star 6'6 forward or a 4-star guard. Hell, a guy like Barro would be enough for me at this point.

[MR.HAYWARD]

It not about being upset with Otule or any of our current big, it's about consistently recruiting bigs to MU. We ideally need to have a big in each recruiting class, so that they are developing and after someone like Merrit/jackson, Barro, Burke, etc graduate, they can step in and be ready to contribute.

Buzz has signed a big every year he has been here....given that what the hell are you talking about....oh by the way does anyone remember how absolutely terrible Ariinze Anuaku was as a freshman? 

[MR.HAYWARD]

I agree

I'd be extremely thrilled to get say a 6'10 guy that can defend decently a high quality big man on the marquee teams, that grabs boards, and on offensive can put back some misses or make layups/dunks if defenses sag on one of our penetrators. I'd take that over another say 4-star 6'6 forward or a 4-star guard. Hell, a guy like Barro would be enough for me at this point.

so waht you are actually saying is barro as a junior or barro as a senior.  asking a big to play like barro as a junior or senior as a freshman would be the same thing as asking for a 5 star big.  It takes time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mbao will be better as a junior than barro was a s asenior   Otuale will be better as  a senior than BArro was.  people need to stop balming BUZZ for us not haveing a big man   we have a fresh and a soph he has been here 18 months. 

[StillAWarrior]

so waht you are actually saying is barro as a junior or barro as a senior.  asking a big to play like barro as a junior or senior as a freshman would be the same thing as asking for a 5 star big.  It takes time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mbao will be better as a junior than barro was a s asenior   Otuale will be better as  a senior than BArro was.  people need to stop balming BUZZ for us not haveing a big man   we have a fresh and a soph he has been here 18 months. 

Thank you.  I think we have  been getting some good bigs over the last several years.  But, we have had a string of bad luck once we sign them.  If he'd have stayed and kept himself out of trouble, Mbakwe would be a junior right now.  Liam got hurt and is out.  Otule got hurt last year and missed a lot of time that put him behind.  Mbao is an interesting project.  I think all of these guys are as good or better than Barro.  I'm not as down on our bigs as many in this thread seem to be.

[Brewtown Andy]

Why does everyone assume Otule will be a total bust?  It is totally unreasonable to think that Otule will be "a serviceable BIG who can give us 8-10 points -- 8 rebounds and play decent D inside?"  

I think it's unreasonable to think of someone who's on the edge of averaging a double-double as "serviceable."

[Dr. Blackheart]

Otule has improved 100% since his freshman year (yes, still a project).  Lazar looks so much smoother this year.  Fulce has looked active and seems to be more involved until his knee injury.  I think we can see that the early signs indicate that Buzz can develop bigs. 

With Chris, at least it will be nice to have some options this season on offense down low.  Burke was good for a dish or put back--on which he was usually fouled as he couldn't hit a free throw.  (Burke was a good defender with his body position--his true value last season).  It looks like we are a better outside shooting team this season too...so our ability to stretch a defense will mean less zone against us.  Crean's system (and recruits like last year) left MU vulnerable to the zone.

Majerus?  What great center did he develop as a head coach?  Load Moore, Walter, anyone at BSU or Utah?  I cannot remember anyone of note. 

[Hards Alumni]

Otule has improved 100% since his freshman year (yes, still a project).  Lazar looks so much smoother this year.  Fulce has looked active and seems to be more involved until his knee injury.  I think we can see that the early signs indicate that Buzz can develop bigs. 

With Chris, at least it will be nice to have some options this season on offense down low.  Burke was good for a dish or put back--on which he was usually fouled as he couldn't hit a free throw.  (Burke was a good defender with his body position--his true value last season).  It looks like we are a better outside shooting team this season too...so our ability to stretch a defense will mean less zone against us.  Crean's system (and recruits like last year) left MU vulnerable to the zone.

Majerus?  What great center did he develop as a head coach?  Load Moore, Walter, anyone at BSU or Utah?  I cannot remember anyone of note. 

Andrew Bogut?

[savwa]

I agree, that the stud bigs are just going to college for a cup of coffee and then will enter the draft.  The NBA drafts so much on potential that if you have size and a semblance of talent you're basically a lottery pick as a big.  Sometimes, bigs don't even have to display any semblance of talent but just a motor and some mobility and you're a millionaire.  Most schools are in the same boat at MU where you're trying to find guys to develop at the 5 that can help you down the road.  

If players like Otule or other bigs that wanted PT around the country realized that if they rebound relentlessly and just stood in between their man and the basket on defense they would play a lot more.  Rebounding and defense is about effort and you either give it or you don't.  Most of the guys who play the 5 in college are on the shorter end and would be undersized 4's in the NBA.  The difference is these guys give all out effort on the boards.  By put backs and being near the basket you should be able to get almost a double double every game. Here's hoping the light comes on for Otule and Mbao puts some weight on and they work out down the road for MU.

[romey]

I just read an article about Charles Barkley, and he said, "When I started playing, they wouldn't give me the ball, so I had to go get it myself.  Everyone is enamored with shooting, but rebounding is what got me drafted.  First, forget all this blocking-out Sh*t,  just go get the ball.  That's it.  Go. Get. The. Ball. It doesn't matter who's in your way.  You're going to get some fouls, but you're going to get more rebounds.  Once you have the ball, always keep it high, because those little guys will be trying to grab it away."
(November 2009 Men's Journal)
Not sure if I can "quote like that, but it was not an article I read on line so I couldn't link it.

I love it.  GO. Get. The. Ball.

Seems like that's what Jimmy Butler does.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Andrew Bogut?

From the source himself on Rick's development of him.  I think Rick is a HOF coach, but never did get his rep as a big man coach.

HELD BACK: Bogut didn't field any questions about Majerus, who recruited him to Utah and coached him his freshman year. But he did refer to him indirectly in talking about his college career at Utah.

"I was held back my freshman year, and I wasn't allowed to play my game," he said. "I was allowed to show my game with my new coach, and the second year I really excelled under coach (Ray) Giacoletti."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600144733/NBA-Draft-notes-Bogut-already-rich-with-endorsements.html?ID=600144733&headline=NBA-Draft-notes-Bogut-already-rich-with-endorsements.html&pg=1

[MR.HAYWARD]

I just read an article about Charles Barkley, and he said, "When I started playing, they wouldn't give me the ball, so I had to go get it myself.  Everyone is enamored with shooting, but rebounding is what got me drafted.  First, forget all this blocking-out Sh*t,  just go get the ball.  That's it.  Go. Get. The. Ball. It doesn't matter who's in your way.  You're going to get some fouls, but you're going to get more rebounds.  Once you have the ball, always keep it high, because those little guys will be trying to grab it away."
(November 2009 Men's Journal)
Not sure if I can "quote like that, but it was not an article I read on line so I couldn't link it.

well said by charles and that is actually said by any good coach.  obviously if you have good solid back to the basket big you will feed the post.  after that i have always told my bigs "if you want the ball go F'ing get it"

I love it.  GO. Get. The. Ball.

Seems like that's what Jimmy Butler does.