Xavier Promotes Assistant HC

[Pakuni]

Miller was a quick hire because Matta bolted in the middle of the night. If I remember correctly, Matta said he had no interest in the OSU job and that he was happy at Xavier only to take the OSU job six days later. Muskies were really caught flat-footed and handed the reins to Miller immediately.

As opposed to Tom Crean, who gave his administrators, assistants and players several weeks notice of his impending departure, thus ensuring they were not caught flat-footed?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Miller was a quick hire because Matta bolted in the middle of the night. If I remember correctly, Matta said he had no interest in the OSU job and that he was happy at Xavier only to take the OSU job six days later. Muskies were really caught flat-footed and handed the reins to Miller immediately.

In the end, the results are what matters. The only difference between the two is that the A-10 is a lot more forgiving then the Big East. In that sense, Mack will have more latitude for his mistakes.

Another angle to keep an eye on with people down on Buzz is they'll point to Mack being a born-and-raised Cincinnati guy who has had Xavier in his blood for 20 years; whereas Buzz is a little bit of a coaching mercenary having 12-13 jobs and only knowing MU for 10 months when he was hired. They'll tie that in with the "process".

All good points.

In actuality, the Miller hire sounds similar to Buzz as well... but nobody ever really talked about that because Miller has been a success.

I agree with you, it's about results. The process is important, but if the process is yielding crappy results, then it's worthless.

If MU made a good choice with Buzz (yet to be seen, but early results are positive), then the decision was a good one.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I never called you a racist, nor have I ever implied it, hinted at it or even thought it. There are plenty of other less-than-flattering thoughts I've had about you, but that's not one of them.

Now answer the question, please. Educate us all on the many Buzz Williams behaviors that represent Marquette in a poor light.

The racist thing is in reference to a sarcastic post I made in another thread found here:

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14480.25

This was in reference to PRN making the statement:

"It doesn't matter if they "graduate". Having half our roster made up of junior college transfers is not representative of Marquette University. Having a roster made up of non-qualifiers like Wade wouldn't be either."

PRN is getting beat on by several people in a few different threads, so I can forgive him for mixing Pakuni and me up.

[muarmy81]

All good points.

In actuality, the Miller hire sounds similar to Buzz as well... but nobody ever really talked about that because Miller has been a success.

I agree with you, it's about results. The process is important, but if the process is yielding crappy results, then it's worthless.

If MU made a good choice with Buzz (yet to be seen, but early results are positive), then the decision was a good one.

Great points.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dixon wasn't a long term Pitt guy.  He was a long term Ben Howland guy.

4 years at Pitt before he became head coach....a total of 9 years with Howland.

[ChicosBailBonds]

while you two (prn and Chicos) @$%#@& continue to argue about the "process" like you know anything, I will sit here and smile as the process produced a caoch who represents the University better than anyone I could have imagined, put the best team not led by DWade on the court in the last 25 years, and just landed the #1 rated recruitng class in the country.  But you two keep arguing about XU and it's relation to the MU process...love the ignore button

You're responding to our posts while saying you use the ignore button...priceless.

And I'm not arguing about anything, having a pleasant conversation.  Some people that are inheritently angry, like you for example, like to assume everyone is yelling, arguing, etc.   Sorry to break it to you, life is too short. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, I agree with you on a lot of stuff, but I have to call BS here.

Several vocal members of this board have criticized MU's hiring "process", not necessarily the results of the "process" (ie the candidate who received the job).

XU's main assistant had different qualifications than Buzz (I agree with you there), but the "process" was very similar (from what we know).

XU quickly promoted the top assistant who was recommended by the previous coach. No lengthy search. No public calls to Tony Bennett (UVA now), Chris Lowry, etc. etc. That sounds almost EXACTLY like MU.

Again, I know the actual candidate and the results are slightly different... but the "process" that everybody has been talking about for a year was VERY similar.

We'll have to respectfully disagree.  I remember the posts here after Crean announced he was leaving and how many folks were saying "what do we know about Buzz".  The reason was simple, we didn't know much.  That's different than having someone on the bench for 5 years prior, an alum, former player, who knows the XU way.


It seems to me that Mack was going to be there guy no matter what, thus the difference in "process"....IMO.  No mention of any other candidates pursued by the university (yes, the press mentioned folks but none of them were coming from internal sources).


PS  Not arguing here, want to make sure no one thinks that, especially someone that has us ignore and can't read the message anyway.   

[Kramerica]

So why do we have to have this debate all the time.  For God's sake the hire was a year ago.  Buzz seems like, for the most part, a good coach and a good guy.  He led a good team with severe deficiencies (ie no inside game) to about where most of us expected them to be this past year (12-6 in the BEast, tournament appearance, etc) and landed a very good recruiting class that should hopefully keep us competitive next year and maybe get us in the tournament.  

I guess it might just be because we have nothing else to talk about, but Jesus, lets put this topic to rest.  Buzz is here until he coaches his way out of this job or until he moves on to something better.  Bitching about not getting the 'name' coach last year isn't going to change anything.  

We are what we are.  Accept it and move on.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

+ A lot

With the exception of PRN, who has a distaste for most things Marquette (especially important things like nicknames), all we heard last year was that people weren't opposed to Buzz, they were opposed to the process. They wanted public courtships with bigger names, they wanted a lengthier search, they wanted a proven head coach, etc.

Well, now that Xavier followed a nearly identical process, suddenly the process isn't such a problem. No, now the problem is that MU's process landed a coach who just wasn't around long enough.
Which is it?
I'm getting old, so my memory ain't what it used to be, but I don't recall Chico's or anyone else saying "the process would have been fine had Buzz played for Marquette" or "the process would have been fine had Buzz been at MU a few years longer."

The whole process complaint, IMHO, is largely a ruse by those who didn't want Buzz as head coach, but didn't want to say that in case he turns out to be a great choice. This way, if he fails, they can say they were right all along. If he succeeds, they can say they never had a problem with Buzz, just the process. Fence sitting at its finest.

Actually, if Buzz had played for MU and had a lengthy stay on the MU bench it would have changed a lot of opinions. 

By the way, it has nothing to do with whether he succeeds down the road, I've said from day one I want him to succeed but did not care for the process.  That won't change today, next year, 10 years from now....the process still wasn't good in my opinion but I still want him to succeed.  I don't like hiring unknowns that fast when they were there to be had 2 weeks later.  I don't like hiring a coach that left after just one year on the job and had a losing record there.   Doesn't mean he won't succeed, so far I like what he's done.  But I don't think we had to move that fast him, he would have been there weeks later.  My position hasn't changed nor will it.  You shouldn't imply my positions will change on this matter as they've been consistent from day one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As opposed to Tom Crean, who gave his administrators, assistants and players several weeks notice of his impending departure, thus ensuring they were not caught flat-footed?

Or for that matter, as opposed to the last New Orleans coach who quit in JUNE and left his administrators, assistants and players a few weeks BEFORE SCHOOL STARTED.  Ouch.  Now that's flat-footed.

[Pakuni]

Or for that matter, as opposed to the last New Orleans coach who quit in JUNE and left his administrators, assistants and players a few weeks BEFORE SCHOOL STARTED.  Ouch.  Now that's flat-footed.

Are you suggesting that the circumstances of Matta's, Crean's and Buzz's departures from their prior positions were remotely analogous?
Hmmm.

Two guys fled jobs where they had great success, had a chance to continue to succeed, were well paid and were treated like kings. All to seek greener pastures with bigger programs.

The third left a job where - unless you believe he's a monumental liar - his employers failed to live up to their promises, breached his contract and allowed, if not fostered, an environment in which success was next to impossible.
And he left for what essentially was a demotion that had the potential to kill his future head-coaching aspirations.

Other than that, the situations are identical.

[MR.HAYWARD]

well while I cannot read chicos comments excepted where they are pasted and copied by others i can only imagine a number of his have railed against me.  oh well par for the course.

Pakuni to answer your question it does not matter... Buzz will be attacked by certain people for years about how he was hired.  Apparently there is some military doctrine or modus operandi about how every successful coach that has ever been hired is to be hired.  Apprently chicos and Buzz's other detractors know what this is and know that Mu did not follow it. 

therefore instead of accepting that given the results that maybe MU's process was extremely EFFECTIVE they will continue to make them selves look like absolute fools by arguing about a process.


actaully, these clowns have argued that Mu did not follow THE PROPER process.  have any of these genuises explained and detailed that PROPER PROCESS?  and then detailed what misteps MU made, when and where they deviated from this PROVEN PROCESS?

Absolutely not they simply rail day after day about a process.  Again failing to realize that BUZZ had this team at 22-2 with no returning player of Big East talent over 6'5".  Had them #8 in the country before our general went down.  Conducted himself as classy as any D1 I have witnessed in a long long long time and signed the #1 rated recruiting class in the country despite being an "unknown product from a failed system".

I tend to rate "processes" as do most by there effectivity some use some subjective BS.  Based one what has transpired over the last 380 days the process was phenomenal

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

We'll have to respectfully disagree.  I remember the posts here after Crean announced he was leaving and how many folks were saying "what do we know about Buzz".  The reason was simple, we didn't know much.  That's different than having someone on the bench for 5 years prior, an alum, former player, who knows the XU way.


It seems to me that Mack was going to be there guy no matter what, thus the difference in "process"....IMO.  No mention of any other candidates pursued by the university (yes, the press mentioned folks but none of them were coming from internal sources).


PS  Not arguing here, want to make sure no one thinks that, especially someone that has us ignore and can't read the message anyway.   

No problem, agree to disagree.

I have to be honest though, a I'm still not getting what you are saying.

Yes, it would have been a different start to the process if Buzz had been at MU for a long time... but I still think the "process" is the same (ie promote the top assistant with a reco from the former coach without a long coaching search).

I mean, XU could have shopped for other coaches first and gone back to hire Mack, right? Same as you wanted MU to do, right?

I realize the results of the hiring are different, but the steps are very similar for Buzz, Mack, and even Miller for that matter.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you suggesting that the circumstances of Matta's, Crean's and Buzz's departures from their prior positions were remotely analogous?
Hmmm.

Two guys fled jobs where they had great success, had a chance to continue to succeed, were well paid and were treated like kings. All to seek greener pastures with bigger programs.

The third left a job where - unless you believe he's a monumental liar - his employers failed to live up to their promises, breached his contract and allowed, if not fostered, an environment in which success was next to impossible.
And he left for what essentially was a demotion that had the potential to kill his future head-coaching aspirations.

Other than that, the situations are identical.

Teal can be your friend, that's why I used it. 

[79Warrior]

Did Xavier have a big time donor calling the shots too?

Every schools's donors have input. What frigging planet are you from?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Does every school have donors interview coaching candidates?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Every schools's donors have input.

That is incorrect!

MU is the only private school in history to try and please wealthy donors.

Every other school manages it's funds properly where it doesn't have to appeal to donors at all.

MU, and MU alone is a whore for $.

When are you guys going to wake up?!