Inside Marquette Basketball 11.2.22

[wadesworld]

If a player doesn't expect to play much then then do they are happy.  If they don't they expected it.   But when you have a lot of players who expect to play and don't then you have some turnover.   I think we have players who expect to play.   If I'm Gold, far far from home and I don't play after my experience inc Australia, then I'm thinking hmmm . Same with others.  That is the issue.  We do have a pretty good group of players.  I'm hoping Gold surprises us all.....

I have faith that Shaka has been setting the expectations for these players since well before they arrived on Marquette's campus.  Things don't always go as planned so of course some of the expectations will change, but I don't see Shaka as a guy who sells kids a bill of goods.  And of course some kids may think they're okay with what Shaka is telling them and then when they actually arrive and are going through it they decide it's not for them.  There's going to be turnover.  The question is how much.

[mileskishnish72]

The year they went to the Final Four VCU played 5 guys over 25 minutes and 3 guys between 10-15 minutes. The rest under 10.

The year George Mason went to the Final Four they played 5 guys over 30 minutes, one guy 21 minutes, and one guy 11 minutes.

St. Peter's is the exception. 8 guys over 15 minutes and one other over 10.

Teams just don't have 10 man rotations. Nor should they. I don't expect Gold, Keeyan, or Ellis to play many minutes at all. I don't expect Chase to play more than about 10. We just don't have that many players. We aren't going to have a 10 man rotation.

In meaningful games, Kolek, OMax, and Oso are all going to play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves 110 minutes for the other 9 players. Add 25 for Kam. That leaves 85 for 8 players. Wrightsil, Joplin, Sean Jones, and Stevie will take those up. I'd expect something like:

Oso 30
OMax 30
Kolek 30
Kam 25
Joplin 22
Sean Jones 22
Stevie 17
Wrightsil 15

9 minutes split between the other 3 healthy guys.

I'm guessing Stevie gets more play. The emphasis is on guessing.

[BCHoopster]

Wait till next year when they have 13 kids that will want to play.  There will be one or two kids that will transfer, the system is set up for that.

[The Sultan]

Wait till next year when they have 13 kids that will want to play.  There will be one or two kids that will transfer, the system is set up for that.

Which would be fine.

[MU82]

I also think a lot of coaches will say they want deep rotations at the beginning of the year. But they know back in their mind that it will pan out differently due to players emerging and/or injuries.

Exactly.

I know this is a ridiculous notion, but I'll throw it out there anyway:

We'll see!

[GoldenEagles03]

The year they went to the Final Four VCU played 5 guys over 25 minutes and 3 guys between 10-15 minutes. The rest under 10.

The year George Mason went to the Final Four they played 5 guys over 30 minutes, one guy 21 minutes, and one guy 11 minutes.

St. Peter's is the exception. 8 guys over 15 minutes and one other over 10.

Teams just don't have 10 man rotations. Nor should they. I don't expect Gold, Keeyan, or Ellis to play many minutes at all. I don't expect Chase to play more than about 10. We just don't have that many players. We aren't going to have a 10 man rotation.

In meaningful games, Kolek, OMax, and Oso are all going to play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves 110 minutes for the other 9 players. Add 25 for Kam. That leaves 85 for 8 players. Wrightsil, Joplin, Sean Jones, and Stevie will take those up. I'd expect something like:

Oso 30
OMax 30
Kolek 30
Kam 25
Joplin 22
Sean Jones 22
Stevie 17
Wrightsil 15

9 minutes split between the other 3 healthy guys.

I was mostly referring to this part when talking about those teams:

"If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don't have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run."

[wadesworld]

I was mostly referring to this part when talking about those teams:

"If your top 10 players are all pretty close in ability, you probably don't have anybody with the talent you need to win a conference title and make a deep Tourney run."

Correct. And their top 10 players weren't pretty close in ability, given that they were playing 7 man rotations.

[GoldenEagles03]

Correct. And their top 10 players weren't pretty close in ability, given that they were playing 7 man rotations.

Disagree. Plenty of rosters have 10 guys that are close in ability. Most rosters don't play 10 deep.

Effort and production supersedes ability and that's what a rotation is built on.

[Newsdreams]

And here we go with the mopes' roster rotation discussion. Can't wait until tomorrow so we can actually mope about the game.

[tower912]

It is fascinating.   What is 'in the rotation'?  Were Joplin and Mitchell in the rotation last year?    How about Cain as a sophomore under Wojo or Burton/JaJuan as freshmen under Buzz?
  I fully expect 10 players to play nearly every game this year, barring injuries.   Some, like Joplin last year, may frequently only see 5 minutes a game.

I also get that the rotations tend to tighten as the season goes on.   

I think this team, playing this style, should play 10 for as long as possible.

[wadesworld]

Disagree. Plenty of rosters have 10 guys that are close in ability. Most rosters don't play 10 deep.

Effort and production supersedes ability and that's what a rotation is built on.

Two of the three teams you used as an example of teams being able to make big Tourney runs with a deep rotation had extremely shallow rotations.

You can be talented and play with effort. And trust me, no matter how hard working the Matt Heldts of the world are, they aren't going to be playing over even the Luke Fischers of the world.

[tower912]

https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22?path=mbball

Again, define 'in the rotation'.    Clearly MU had a 10 man rotation last year.    10 players played in every game for which they were healthy or not suspended.     Joplin averaged 7+ minutes per game.   The other 9 more than 10 mpg.

I expect similar things this year.     

Clicking over to the individual stats, fun fact.    Ellis shot more free throws than Kam last year.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Two of the three teams you used as an example of teams being able to make big Tourney runs with a deep rotation had extremely shallow rotations.

You can be talented and play with effort. And trust me, no matter how hard working the Matt Heldts of the world are, they aren't going to be playing over even the Luke Fischers of the world.

My rule is you need three NBA talents on the roster to make deep runs, even borderline or cups of coffee guys.  Jay, Bo, Butch, Toone in 1977.  Wade, Diener, Novak.  Elite 8 year was Jamil, Vander and Juan with Lockett and Gardner strong internationally. Buzz's Sweet 16 teams also loaded with Jae, Jimmy, Bucks, DJO. KO's Sweet 16: Mac, McCaskill, Tony Smith with strong international pros. Al and Hank's other strong teams had the same formula.

While I can see there are some potential candidates for the NBA on this roster, I think we are a year or two away from knowing. Shaka has stressed fan patience at the beginning of this year, and I am excited to see how it plays out as that talents develops. Remembering, I am in the COLE Camp (start slow on wins, finish stronger than last season, look to 23-24).

Who are the NBA talents on this roster?

[Newsdreams]

My rule is you need three NBA talents on the roster to make deep runs, even borderline or cups of coffee guys.  Jay, Bo, Butch, Toone in 1977.  Wade, Diener, Novak.  Elite 8 year was Jamil, Vander and Juan with Lockett and Gardner strong internationally. Buzz's Sweet 16 teams also loaded with Jae, Jimmy, Bucks, DJO. KO's Sweet 16: Mac, McCaskill, Tony Smith with strong international pros. Al and Hank's other strong teams had the same formula.

While I can see there are some potential candidates for the NBA on this roster, I think we are a year or two away from knowing. Shaka has stressed fan patience at the beginning of this year, and I am excited to see how it plays out as that talents develops. Remembering, I am in the COLE Camp (start slow on wins, finish stronger than last season, look to 23-24).

Who are the NBA talents on this roster?

F patience, championship now!