Markus greatest scorer in MU history?

[Cheeks]

I vote yes.  Never seen a guy at MU with that deep of range, but also a great midrange game, fearless to the hole for layups, and killer at the free throw line.  Yes he is a volume shooter, but a damn good one, too.  I think Wade was an amazing scorer, but didn't have the range in college consistently.  Wade could dunk, and Howard I don't think can (not sure).

[LloydsLegs]

I vote yes.  Never seen a guy at MU with that deep of range, but also a great midrange game, fearless to the hole for layups, and killer at the free throw line.  Yes he is a volume shooter, but a damn good one, too.  I think Wade was an amazing scorer, but didn't have the range in college consistently.  Wade could dunk, and Howard I don't think can (not sure).

Yes.  I don't think it's that close. (Again, post 1980 for me)

[Goose]

No debate

[Markusquette]

Without a doubt. He's had four years to prove himself unlike some other guys but the way Markus can pull up and hit shots from all over is incredible. I always factor a player's size into an evaluation. To be one of MU's greats and barely 5'10, is really a feat. Everything a player that size has to do needs to be better. Better at creating space for shots, better at finishing around the hoop.

[Galway Eagle]

Howard can dunk I've seen it on Instagram. Don't think he has during a game though.

[Skatastrophy]

I voted no to make an argument that I don't feel terribly strongly about, but it's Saturday so let's argue:

Markus is the best shooter in MU history, but not the best scorer. Markus can't take it to the hole against defenders very well. He drives into the trees, jumps, panics, and tries to kick it out. Or he'll drive down low and shoot it into the trees to give them free blocks. He's not that big, and he plays well below the rim so you can't fault him for getting into some sticky situations. You can fault him, though, for his decision-making ability. If he's going to drive and repeatedly end up in these sticky situations he needs to be able to create contact and come away with a few shots at the foul line (I like to call that the JFB special). Or kick the ball out before he's in the air and panicking (the Jerel McNeal special).

Fite me.

[lawdog77]

I voted no to make an argument that I don't feel terribly strongly about, but it's Saturday so let's argue:

Markus is the best shooter in MU history, but not the best scorer. Markus can't take it to the hole against defenders very well. He drives into the trees, jumps, panics, and tries to kick it out. Or he'll drive down low and shoot it into the trees to give them free blocks. He's not that big, and he plays well below the rim so you can't fault him for getting into some sticky situations. You can fault him, though, for his decision-making ability. If he's going to drive and repeatedly end up in these sticky situations he needs to be able to create contact and come away with a few shots at the foul line (I like to call that the JFB special). Or kick the ball out before he's in the air and panicking (the Jerel McNeal special).

Fite me.

well, who would be your greatest scorer? Wade? He couldnt hit a shot over 15 feet. He didnt need to as he had Diener and Novak. Everyone has their flaws. But, I dont see how anyone can argue against Howard being the greatest scorer.

[TallTitan34]

From what I've seen since around 2000, yes.

I can't speak for guys like George Thompson.

[brewcity77]

Markus is the best shooter in MU history, but not the best scorer. Markus can't take it to the hole against defenders very well. He drives into the trees, jumps, panics, and tries to kick it out. Or he'll drive down low and shoot it into the trees to give them free blocks. He's not that big, and he plays well below the rim so you can't fault him for getting into some sticky situations. You can fault him, though, for his decision-making ability. If he's going to drive and repeatedly end up in these sticky situations he needs to be able to create contact and come away with a few shots at the foul line (I like to call that the JFB special). Or kick the ball out before he's in the air and panicking (the Jerel McNeal special).

Fite me.

I appreciate the devil's advocate. Here's my counter:

Markus size issues are mitigated by his ability to draw fouls and get to the line. Last year he was 5th in the country in fouls drawn/40 and this year he's first. Essentially, if he plays 40 minutes, two guys are fouling out because of his presence.

While generally FT% is disregarded, Markus leads the country in free throw attempts per game with 9.3 and his accuracy at the line only puts more pressure on the defense.

He has also added the floater and is generally skilled at off-balance shots which helps mitigate his 2PFG%.

Quite simply, you can't criticize a guy for not getting to the line when he leads the country in made free throws and free throws taken per game.

[Skatastrophy]

well, who would be your greatest scorer? Wade? He couldnt hit a shot over 15 feet. He didnt need to as he had Diener and Novak. Everyone has their flaws. But, I dont see how anyone can argue against Howard being the greatest scorer.

Wade shot about 33% from 3 which is respectable, but you're right he only took 0.5 per game because of the makeup of the team. For measurement purposes, the 26th best 3-point shooter in CUSA history since 92-93 was a 34% shooter. If that was the weakness in Wade's game, it isn't really a weakness. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/cusa/leaders/fg3-pct-player-career.html

Wade is the greatest scorer in MU history. 

Quite simply, you can't criticize a guy for not getting to the line when he leads the country in made free throws and free throws taken per game.

Point conceded. Great stats!

[lawdog77]

Wade shot about 33% from 3 which is respectable, but you're right he only took 0.5 per game because of the makeup of the team. For measurement purposes, the 26th best 3-point shooter in CUSA history since 92-93 was a 34% shooter. If that was the weakness in Wade's game, it isn't really a weakness. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/cusa/leaders/fg3-pct-player-career.html

Wade is the greatest scorer in MU history. 

Point conceded. Great stats!

I respect your.opinion but Wade did not even.have.enough 3 pointers to qualify,  as i am sure.many others as well. So 26th best in CUSA (sounds like a backhanded compliment) was probably a lot worse.  I thought it was pretty well acknowledged that Wade's only weakness was hit outside shooting.

On a side note. How many points does markus need to be the all time leading scorer for brothers?

[brewcity77]

On a side note. How many points does markus need to be the all time leading scorer for brothers?

He needs 82 points for him and Jordan to pass Seth & Steph Curry. He needs 394 to pass Jordan as the all-time leading Howard. I will try to bump that thread regularly, and plan to keep the updated article as my pinned tweet at @brewcity1977 on Twitter.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2019/10/markus-howard-scoring-record-watch.html?m=1

[Billy Hoyle]

George Thompson. 1773 points in three seasons, fewer games, no three point line, no shot clock, fewer fouls called.

[Lennys Tap]

Obviously yes.

Dumb poll.

[Cheeks]

Obviously yes.

Dumb poll.

Well thanks.  Incidentally, it was so obvious that so far the poll is at 100%....er I mean 95%....er I mean less than that. 

[Lennys Tap]

Well thanks.  Incidentally, it was so obvious that so far the poll is at 100%....er I mean 95%....er I mean less than that.

You can't get 100% "no" answers to "Is the world flat?". You can't get 80% "no" answers to "Was 9/11 an inside job?". So what? Still obvious, still dumb polls.

[oldwarrior81]

George scored 1773 points in 87 games during his sophomore, junior and senior seasons.  20.4 per game.

Since George freshman stats don't count in his totals, discarding Markus' freshman scoring he has 1727 points in 74 games.  That's 23.3 per game.

When looking back there actually were a few more fouls and free throws per game during George's era 50 years ago. 
Over George's career he avg 8 FT attempts per game.  Markus is under 6 per game on his last three seasons

3-pointer certainly has helped Markus.   But as we've discussed before, the consensus was that the 3-line really wouldn't have played a big part in George's game.  He made 101 during his five year ABA pro career (made 26% career).   About 1 make every 4 games.  But he sure could score as witnessed by his 27.0 a game in 1972.

[Cheeks]

You can't get 100% "no" answers to "Is the world flat?". You can't get 80% "no" answers to "Was 9/11 an inside job?". So what? Still obvious, still dumb polls.

As always, thank you so much....

[Class71]

From what I've seen since around 2000, yes.

I can't speak for guys like George Thompson.

George was a much tougher and better driver and had good range but Markus is the best pure shooter from distance. Dean had great finesse with his drives. He went into traffic and somehow scored. Very smooth. Dean had a poor outside shot but also had great D and point guard skills.

All three were/are great to watch as was D. Wade.