Let These Eagles Fly!

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I'm going to defend Sand-Knit here.  I think he is 100% right.  I think Heldt is better option right now for what this team wants to do on offense.  The ball moves better, he is a better defender, and his rebounding isn't really that far off.  And yes, we do get into situations where the offense bogs down to feed Fischer the ball.  And that is OK if he has a mis-match and/or is hitting his shots.  But only as a change up.  That should no longer be the focal point of the offense.

And you think Fischer's 65% is good?  Heldt is 73% this year including 12/14 since he began starting.  My guess is that he isn't qualifying for the BE leaderboard due to only having 37 attempts on the year.

Looks like im not the only genius on the board, welcome!

Bottom line is alot of people think feeding luke in the post is a good idea because he shoots 65% , relative to our other options its near or at the bottom.  Only time im ok with it is in a switch situation with a guard on him

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.

[GGGG]

I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.

And that is true, but I am not sure why it matters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And that is true, but I am not sure why it matters.

Because there is a difference between advocating for one player for sake of the team and tearing down another player when its not justified

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.

Offensive skill i would agree.  Defensively completely disagree. Toughness completely disagree. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Offensive skill i would agree.  Defensively completely disagree. Toughness completely disagree.

Well some how despite his lack of toughness and defense, he still puts up significantly better numbers in every major category!

[Loose Cannon]

Well some how despite his lack of toughness and defense, he still puts up significantly better numbers in every major category!

Would you agree with Wojo Starting Heldt in these last games?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Would you agree with Wojo Starting Heldt in these last games?

Like I said earlier, I could buy an argument that Heldt's skill set is better for this team than Luke's. That doesn't make Heldt better or Luke worse. I also think Luke has been victimized by the refs the last few games. Guy sneezes and they call a foul

[RJax55]

Looks like im not the only genius on the board, welcome!

Bottom line is alot of people think feeding luke in the post is a good idea because he shoots 65% , relative to our other options its near or at the bottom.  Only time im ok with it is in a switch situation with a guard on him

Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!

Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.

Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?

[muwarrior69]

Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!

Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.

Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?

Luke is the past, Matt is the future. Looking for long term success; not just winning for the short term. Let's face it. Even if we get into the tournament this team is not built to make a deep run. Perhaps in a year or two. Having said that nothing would please me more if I had to eat my words.

[GGGG]

Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!

Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.

Right.  Because feeding the post is crappy basketball offense.  I posted this when he said it in December....

http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!

Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.

Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?

Ur right , what funny is the stats guys that continue to defend him still start thrreads of should luke still start.  I like the fact that luke rarely plays anymore, it has turned our season around.  What i dont like is we still go to him.  Yes the coaches have realized its fools gold.  However even in the Xavier game we for ce fed him a couple times.  Once the pass hit him sqaure in the hands n he dropped it the other he shot a line drive brick at rim.  Dont feed the post. 

[MUDPT]

There is a lot of stat picking in this thread. If Heldt was using the same % of possessions at Luke, I don't think he would be nearly as "efficient" as he is now. Luke is a better offensive player, using way more possessions.

The only argument that could be made is that the team should be using Luke less as other guys are more efficient. Still defensively, Luke has better block %, steal %, defensive rebounding % and fouls less per 40 minutes.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

The people that cling to stats are blunded by the real game.  Plz post the fumbled rebound n pass stats.  Plz post the dunks given up off of ball screen defense stat.  Stats have their place but unfortunately they are blinding some of what is starkly obvious.  As another poster has said , the coaches have figured it out, and as i stated after the first Xavier game, thank goodness!! I just wish they had done it sooner.  Nice kid, free schooling, get a degree n recruit someone who is good at basketball.

[shoothoops]

Being one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country, and being one of the best free throw shooting teams in the country is a nice treat for Marquette fans.

What Marquette needs more moving forward with recruiting, is lateral quickness. They need more players with not only more athleticism, but more lateral quickness to defend better and stay in front of their man. This will also help with rebounding in and out of area.

Until then, take advantage of the 3 point shooting, make the extra passes, and get more easy baskets when teams overplay outside.  Defend and rebound as a group.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The people that cling to stats are blunded by the real game.  Plz post the fumbled rebound n pass stats.  Plz post the dunks given up off of ball screen defense stat.  Stats have their place but unfortunately they are blinding some of what is starkly obvious.  As another poster has said , the coaches have figured it out, and as i stated after the first Xavier game, thank goodness!! I just wish they had done it sooner.  Nice kid, free schooling, get a degree n recruit someone who is good at basketball.

You are the only one who is blind. Luke fumbles one rebound and that turns into 4 of them. Luke gives up zero dunks off ball screen defense but because you think it's bad defense anytime Luke leaves the post it turns into dozens of dunks. Meanwhile, you ignore any mistake Matt makes.

After the first X game you told everyone that Heldt was a lockdown defender and Luke was a sieve. I showed you that Heldt allowed 67% fg shooting in the post while Luke gave up less then 50%.

What you fail to grasp with the stats that if Luke is truly fumbling so many rebounds and dropping passes in the post, that would show up in the stats. You just focus so much on individual mistakes these you don't see everything else going on.

All that being said, I think you are onto something with the style. Our offense does seem to flow better when we don't feed the post as often. I didn't think so at first but I think you are right on that one. Saying we should feature Luke less is one thing but don't tear down a kid and say he's garbage. Especially when it's not justified.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

You are the only one who is blind. Luke fumbles one rebound and that turns into 4 of them. Luke gives up zero dunks off ball screen defense but because you think it's bad defense anytime Luke leaves the post it turns into dozens of dunks. Meanwhile, you ignore any mistake Matt makes.

After the first X game you told everyone that Heldt was a lockdown defender and Luke was a sieve. I showed you that Heldt allowed 67% fg shooting in the post while Luke gave up less then 50%.

What you fail to grasp with the stats that if Luke is truly fumbling so many rebounds and dropping passes in the post, that would show up in the stats. You just focus so much on individual mistakes these you don't see everything else going on.

All that being said, I think you are onto something with the style. Our offense does seem to flow better when we don't feed the post as often. I didn't think so at first but I think you are right on that one. Saying we should feature Luke less is one thing but don't tear down a kid and say he's garbage. Especially when it's not justified.

Garbage has never been used.  Three times  in second half wednesday rebounds came off the rim hit luke squearely in both hands and he dropped them.  What stat would that show up in?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Garbage has never been used.  Three times  in second half wednesday rebounds came off the rim hit luke squearely in both hands and he dropped them.  What stat would that show up in?

TR%. Please tell me when these occured. I have watched the Xavier game twice now and don't remember three rebounds hitting Luke squarely in both hands and him dropping them.

And while I don't feel like going back through your posts, garbage and worse than garbage has been used in your three month campaign against Luke.

[RJax55]

Right.  Because feeding the post is crappy basketball offense.  I posted this when he said it in December....

http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12

Almost every game the color analysis (doesn't really matter who) will state that MU really needs to establish Luke in the post. Never fails.

During conference play, we are finally running our offense similar to the way Duke was doing it at the end of Wojo's tenure. Coach K changed his offense after his Olympic experience, emphasizing shooting and floor spacing.

The way Duke used the Plumlee brothers is how I foresee our 5 position in the future. Screeners, offensive rebounders, guy who work the alley waiting for drop-offs. Either that or a 5 that is a shooter with range. Perhaps a guy like Harry Froling.

[Loose Cannon]

Like I said earlier, I could buy an argument that Heldt's skill set is better for this team than Luke's. That doesn't make Heldt better or Luke worse. I also think Luke has been victimized by the refs the last few games. Guy sneezes and they call a foul

Would that be a YES? After the argument is completed.

[frozena pizza]

This team is where basketball is headed in the next few years - heavy emphasis on the 3 pointer with big men who can rebound, defend the paint and set screens.  Luke and Matt both play that role pretty well, although they need to do a better job of staying out of foul trouble.  Unfortunately in today's game that often means just not contesting once a guy has position.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Would that be a YES? After the argument is completed.

Yes, it is a yes. Wojo has clearly pushed a button and it is working. I wouldn't mess with it at this point. Though he might start the seniors on senior day.

[Loose Cannon]

Yes, it is a yes. Wojo has clearly pushed a button and it is working. I wouldn't mess with it at this point. Though he might start the seniors on senior day.

I would agree. Thanks