Let These Eagles Fly!

[DarkWarrior]

I have been watching Marquette Basketball for decades and defense was always a key component of their best moments. This year however, we have an extraordinary group of marksmen. With at least 4 shooters pumping up high percentage 3's, our odds of nailing a 3 every time down the court is nearly as high most team's odds of hitting a 2. That is a game changer. Add to that, that last night marked the first time I saw this team move to the next level and effectively drive the basket and finish when challenged behind the 3 point line. That means we now might be multidimensional in our offense making us extremely difficult to defend and could further enhance our scoring efficiency. This is really fun to watch and I think WOJO is just now really figuring out what he has. A cold shooting night could ruin this fun at any point but when we are on, we can be nearly unstoppable. Play adequate defense, minimize turnovers and make sure we always get a good look at the basket seems to be a winning formula. It is great watching these Eagles Fly.   

[CAGASS24]

I wouldn't say it's wojo just now figuring it out - its that rather than go with lineups he thinks may be more effective defensively he scrapped that and said I'm putting the fighters out there and maximizing my offense - they're gonna go only as far as the offense but it's our only chance - no point hamstringing it with what cleary will not be great defense

[MarquetteDano]

I wouldn't say it's wojo just now figuring it out - its that rather than go with lineups he thinks may be more effective defensively he scrapped that and said I'm putting the fighters out there and maximizing my offense - they're gonna go only as far as the offense but it's our only chance - no point hamstringing it with what cleary will not be great defense

Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether.  Maybe certain positions.  Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke.  He is in there for his defense.

[LAMUfan]

Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether.  Maybe certain positions.  Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke.  He is in there for his defense.

Defense sure, but he is also not a priority taking possessions on offense like having Fisher in would, so more shots for the other guys when Heldt is in which helps.

[mu03eng]

Defense sure, but he is also not a priority taking possessions on offense like having Fisher in would, so more shots for the other guys when Heldt is in which helps.

Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether.  Maybe certain positions.  Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke.  He is in there for his defense.

Not completely sure about heldt being less talented.  Mu goes to him more often yes.  Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold.  Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish.  Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks.  Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead

[wadesworld]

Not completely sure about heldt being less talented.  Mu goes to him more often yes.  Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold.  Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish.  Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks.  Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead

You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?"  Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage.  Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago.  It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot.  You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.

[MarquetteDano]

Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer

Defensive rebounder.  Luke is a better offensive rebounder.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer

Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not completely sure about heldt being less talented.  Mu goes to him more often yes.  Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold.  Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish.  Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks.  Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead

#alternativefacts

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?"  Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage.  Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago.  It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot.  You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.

Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time.  And we are looking at far less that 65%.  Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best. 
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt.  Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng.  Heldt scores within the offense.  The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular. 
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets?  Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+.  This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%.  Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that.  A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better.  Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part.  He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.

Screener no
Rebounder yes

[muwarrior69]

I have been watching Marquette Basketball for decades and defense was always a key component of their best moments. This year however, we have an extraordinary group of marksmen. With at least 4 shooters pumping up high percentage 3's, our odds of nailing a 3 every time down the court is nearly as high most team's odds of hitting a 2. That is a game changer. Add to that, that last night marked the first time I saw this team move to the next level and effectively drive the basket and finish when challenged behind the 3 point line. That means we now might be multidimensional in our offense making us extremely difficult to defend and could further enhance our scoring efficiency. This is really fun to watch and I think WOJO is just now really figuring out what he has. A cold shooting night could ruin this fun at any point but when we are on, we can be nearly unstoppable. Play adequate defense, minimize turnovers and make sure we always get a good look at the basket seems to be a winning formula. It is great watching these Eagles Fly.

A tall order for this team. We still gave up 84 points our last game.

[Galway Eagle]

Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time.  And we are looking at far less that 65%.  Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best. 
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt.  Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng.  Heldt scores within the offense.  The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular. 
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets?  Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+.  This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%.  Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that.  A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better.  Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part.  He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game

How many times can you say add in the fumbles and travels in one post?

[UticaBusBarn]

Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether.  Maybe certain positions.  Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke.  He is in there for his defense.

Heldt is playing because he understands basketball is a contact sport.

[mu03eng]

Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.

In screening, I include the "box outs" Heldt provides on drives before the shot goes up...highly underrated.

And Heldt gets his hands on the ball, he gets it....not to sound like Sand-knit but how many rebounds does Luke fumble away?

[wadesworld]

Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time.  And we are looking at far less that 65%.  Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best. 
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt.  Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng.  Heldt scores within the offense.  The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular. 
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets?  Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+.  This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%.  Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that.  A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better.  Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part.  He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game

What is objective is that Luke has the second highest eFG% in the Big East conference in the past 10 years.  And with the insane amount of travels n fumbled passes n such, Luke somehow, miraculously, still averages the 3rd fewest turnovers per game compared to the other starting BE centers, all of 0.1 turnovers per game more than the guy with 2nd fewest turnovers per game.

"If you take away this n that n this then his shooting % isn't this n is this!"  Hey, thanks!  Guess what, he does get "this n that n this" and his shooting percentage is 65%.  That is unthinkably good.  "Hey guys, did you know that if you take away Howard's made FTs n his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers, he'd be averaging 0 ppg!  God, I wish Wojo could just recruit some better kids so we don't have to play terrible players like Howard who would be scoring 0 ppg if you took away his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers n his made free throws!"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Screener no
Rebounder yes

His TR% is significantly better than Heldts and last I checked was top 10 in the Big East.

You are seeing wrong

[jutaw22mu]

Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney!  I can't wait.

[MUBigDance]

Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney!  I can't wait.

Dangerous to my heart health!

They are so up and down. We're either going to have a weekend to be remembered or we'll get pasted and deflated....that's just MU this year. I'll live wither way and look forward to next year after its all done.

[Stretchdeltsig]

You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?"  Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage.  Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago.  It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot.  You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.

It's odd to see Fischer miss so many two footers and yet the statistics say he is a good shooter.  It just seems that we are a better team with Heldt on the court.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

What is objective is that Luke has the second highest eFG% in the Big East conference in the past 10 years.  And with the insane amount of travels n fumbled passes n such, Luke somehow, miraculously, still averages the 3rd fewest turnovers per game compared to the other starting BE centers, all of 0.1 turnovers per game more than the guy with 2nd fewest turnovers per game.

"If you take away this n that n this then his shooting % isn't this n is this!"  Hey, thanks!  Guess what, he does get "this n that n this" and his shooting percentage is 65%.  That is unthinkably good.  "Hey guys, did you know that if you take away Howard's made FTs n his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers, he'd be averaging 0 ppg!  God, I wish Wojo could just recruit some better kids so we don't have to play terrible players like Howard who would be scoring 0 ppg if you took away his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers n his made free throws!"

Wades u can twist it how ever u want but ur not being rational if u do.
To say we should stop our ball movement n clear out a side for luke to post n then feed him the ball from the wing because his fg is 65% is a total fallacy. 
This is guessing but i bet im pretty close to being right.... So if half of his shots are putbacks or dribble drive dishes and hes lets say shooting 80% on those.  And those are half his fgs attempts, then by math at 65% total fg he is shooting 50 %on post ups.  That is of shots he takes.  As we know he fumbles passes, charges, travels or gets fouled many times which dont get included as shots taken.  The gets fouled is akin to a turnover.  Therefore the teams effectivity of calling his number on a post up is quite a bit below 50%, and given the ither options , ie a 3 from our big 4 or a drive from others i personally feel we should rarely call the clear out wing post feed play.  It is bad percentage for us.  You can spout 65% all u want its apples to oranges

Whats heldts efg over the last 10 games, i gurantee its higher than lukes, and i would be saying the same thing if we were runiing clear out post ups for heldt.  Neither one are very good at it.  Fisher should be a garbage man, dumps n putbacks. 

[muwarrior69]

Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney!  I can't wait.

I hope you are right, but since we lack the athleticism to play good defense we will be lucky to win one game.

[jdbied]

Wades u can twist it how ever u want but ur not being rational if u do.
To say we should stop our ball movement n clear out a side for luke to post n then feed him the ball from the wing because his fg is 65% is a total fallacy. 
This is guessing but i bet im pretty close to being right.... So if half of his shots are putbacks or dribble drive dishes and hes lets say shooting 80% on those.  And those are half his fgs attempts, then by math at 65% total fg he is shooting 50 %on post ups.  That is of shots he takes.  As we know he fumbles passes, charges, travels or gets fouled many times which dont get included as shots taken.  The gets fouled is akin to a turnover.  Therefore the teams effectivity of calling his number on a post up is quite a bit below 50%, and given the ither options , ie a 3 from our big 4 or a drive from others i personally feel we should rarely call the clear out wing post feed play.  It is bad percentage for us.  You can spout 65% all u want its apples to oranges

Whats heldts efg over the last 10 games, i gurantee its higher than lukes, and i would be saying the same thing if we were runiing clear out post ups for heldt.  Neither one are very good at it.  Fisher should be a garbage man, dumps n putbacks.

.                       


You are the one doing the twisting, dude.   The good thing about math is that it's a consistent truth.  65℅ FG percentage is just that.  Most centers, including Heldt get most of their scoring on close range shots of whatever nature, especially the ones of some degree of limited ability (both our 5's).   No one said we should "stop our ball movement" just to get the ball to Fischer.


BTW, why don't you just change your screen name to "The Agenda"?  It fits your narrative perfectly.

[GGGG]

I'm going to defend Sand-Knit here.  I think he is 100% right.  I think Heldt is better option right now for what this team wants to do on offense.  The ball moves better, he is a better defender, and his rebounding isn't really that far off.  And yes, we do get into situations where the offense bogs down to feed Fischer the ball.  And that is OK if he has a mis-match and/or is hitting his shots.  But only as a change up.  That should no longer be the focal point of the offense.

And you think Fischer's 65% is good?  Heldt is 73% this year including 12/14 since he began starting.  My guess is that he isn't qualifying for the BE leaderboard due to only having 37 attempts on the year.