Chicago Way extends down to Little League?

[buckchuckler]

It is ridiculous and pathetic that coaches and parents would manipulate or in any use these kids so they can have the glory of coaching a winning little league team.  Just completely pathetic. 

[Benny B]

Had to come out of haitus to respond to this bull crap. Its not the kids fault. They didnt know so why punish them? They just wanted to play ball.

Then let's just give every kid a trophy.  I mean, hell, they didn't earn it fair and square, but it's not their fault... they shouldn't be punished just because their team lost or they weren't good enough to even make the team.


But here's the real reason: "moral hazard."   Sure, it sucks to be the example, but if you don't make an example out of someone, others will follow.  In other words, if you don't punish these kids - even if they weren't at fault - you are effectively punishing everyone who chooses not to cheat in the future.

[MerrittsMustache]

According to former MLBer and South Holland native Mark Mulder, this has long been a common practice by JRW going back at least 25ish years to his playing days.

[GGGG]

Had to come out of haitus to respond to this bull crap. Its not the kids fault. They didnt know so why punish them? They just wanted to play ball. So please continue on your self-righteous pilgrimage. The only reason this happened is because the cake eaters from Las Vegas bitched and moaned and Kristi Black was a sore loser and had enough time on her hands to research Chicago district lines. I dont believe a word out of her mouth that they dont care about getting the championship.

Chitown Out.

It would be helpful if you could keep your facts straight next time you check back in.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not only adapt their rules, but adapt their priorities IMO.  The travel ball teams IMO are pretty much straight forward in their purpose - to play a lot of games against quality competition in order to improve the personal and team baseball quality.  I can understand that.

LL seems to straddle between "universal access" and this tournament, which has become a huge money maker for the organization.  And on top of it all, you have a governance organization that makes Greece look like a well-oiled machine.

To me it is both, but definitely universal access is priority one.  At least in our town and surrounding leagues.  A place where kids of all levels can come and play, get guaranteed innings, etc.  No question the all-stars thing is a big deal.  It was really big in our league, we had a 10 year NFL player as one of our coaches and was intense as hell.  A lot of kids in the O.C. over the years have played in LL All-Stars and gone on to play in the Major Leagues, so there is that aspect no question. 

What we began to see is a lot of kids playing LL and travel ball, so overlapping like crazy.  Too much stress on the arms and taking away the kid aspect if you ask me.  I wouldn't let my son do both at the same time.  One or the other, pick.

Merrit is right that other leagues sometimes do it, but it is just stupid.  So easy to get caught and so many people out there that will turn you in.  It's stupid to even go down that path.  Parents. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Had to come out of haitus to respond to this bull crap. Its not the kids fault. They didnt know so why punish them? They just wanted to play ball. So please continue on your self-righteous pilgrimage. The only reason this happened is because the cake eaters from Las Vegas bitched and moaned and Kristi Black was a sore loser and had enough time on her hands to research Chicago district lines. I dont believe a word out of her mouth that they dont care about getting the championship.

Chitown Out.

I've never understood this.  First of all, I'd be stunned if SOME of the kids didn't know.  The reason is simple, because they prep the kids to answer it a certain way.  We ran into this with some rival leagues, and the kids are coached to say they live with Grandma who is in the district, when they clearly don't live with grandma.

And who are you supposed to punish?  Just the adults?  That never works.  That's the same BS argument about not punishing a university's team because of what happened 5 years ago. Of course you do, because IT HURTS.  That's what a punishment is supposed to do....HURT!  Bring a little shame.  Make sure it doesn't happen again, or at least give pause to people before they do it again.  Do you honestly think punishing the parents matters?  Give me a break.  The parents are only involved until the kids are 12 in LL anyway.  So that's a risk easy to take, because they move on to another level.

Plus, it was someone from Illinois that blew the whistle.  So glad you checked back in to clear up the BS.

Sorry, I could not disagree with you more on this.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I have coached kids who played at a national level at that age. What are we teaching them if we allow someone to bend the rules? LL seems to have a cheating scandal every so often because adults let their desires and ambition get in the way. I had parents who used to berate me because I didn't climb all over umps who made bad calls. My response was we were there to teach more than fundamentals of the sport.

[Lighthouse 84]

For those who think it's ok to do what JRW parents did and it's wrong to take it away from the kids, what about the kids who got passed over to play for JRW?  they could have had an opportunity to play in the LLWS and meet the POTUS (if for some reason that was something they wanted to do). How about the teams from Indiana and Las Vegas that didn't get to go to the next round because of a team that was put together unfairly?  They don't get to experience all of what JRW got.  Maybe if JRW was put together with all kids from its district, they win anyway.  Or maybe they lose and other kids get to have the spotlight on them.

For those who think it's racist to strip them of the title (Jesse Jackson, Fr. Pflager, etc.) think again.  It's about doing the right thing for everyone.  The kids from JRW don't deserve it any more than kids from any other team.

[GGGG]

A coach from Evergreen Park was actually the "whistle blower."

And for the people crying racism (not here mind you), I believe I heard that this coach is married to a black woman.

[Lighthouse 84]

And for the people crying racism (not here mind you), I believe I heard that this coach is married to a black woman.

You heard right.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I didn't even think of the racist angle until reading that here.  People are saying that?  Geezus.  

When in doubt....throw it out.

[GGGG]

I didn't even think of the racist angle until reading that hear.  People are saying that?  Geezus. 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/11/rev-jackson-jrw-parent-suggest-decision-to-take-title-racially-motivated/

Yep.  Complete with a Jesse Jackson appearance.  The counters to this are very obvious.  Who has motivation to make this a racial issue?  And LL has banned majority white teams previously...like just last year.

http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/08-01-2014/peachtree-city-teams-dreams-dashed-due-paperwork-error

[Lennys Tap]

Merrit is right that other leagues sometimes do it, but it is just stupid.  So easy to get caught and so many people out there that will turn you in.  It's stupid to even go down that path.  Parents. 

Stupid? Stupid because it's easy to get caught? Stupid because so many people "out there" might turn you in? Once the discussion gets to the "Is this smart or stupid? Will we or will we not get caught?" stage it means the larger question - "Is this right or wrong and does that matter" has been answered with a "Who cares" and a "No".

Fr. Flager, Rev Jackson, Chitown Juan and others can cry "for the kids". I do too. Not because their title was stripped, but because they're stuck with parents, coaches, sympathizers and even pastors without any ethics. Even after being caught cheating, these adult's lesson to the kids isn't play fair, cheating has consequences - instead, it's there's nothing wrong with cheating, this is all about racism. What chance do these kids have to be healthy, productive adults when that crap is shoved down their throats?

[D'Lo Brown]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/11/rev-jackson-jrw-parent-suggest-decision-to-take-title-racially-motivated/

Yep.  Complete with a Jesse Jackson appearance.  The counters to this are very obvious.  Who has motivation to make this a racial issue?  And LL has banned majority white teams previously...like just last year.

http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/08-01-2014/peachtree-city-teams-dreams-dashed-due-paperwork-error

Jackson, et al's business model is to play the race card. There isn't a legitimate issue here but since the entire team is black, we get Jesse Jackson on the news for another night. Most of my friends of color vehemently deny that Sharpton, Jackson, etc represent black people. They simply make money off of their misfortunes.

The unfortunate thing here is that, yes, the entire team is black. Which was and still is truly a wonderful thing that we should be thankful for. Baseball desperately needs diversity at the lower levels and I think that all of the publicity they got could only help that cause. I just hope that this whole racism thing doesn't get completely blown out of proportion and ruin any of the progress that was made.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/11/rev-jackson-jrw-parent-suggest-decision-to-take-title-racially-motivated/

Yep.  Complete with a Jesse Jackson appearance.  The counters to this are very obvious.  Who has motivation to make this a racial issue?  And LL has banned majority white teams previously...like just last year.

http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/08-01-2014/peachtree-city-teams-dreams-dashed-due-paperwork-error

Thanks for sharing.  Not surprised by the actors involved. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

And now the lawsuit...cuz, you know, it was at least partially because of race.   

[GGGG]

A really good summary of what is going on here.  It is really sad.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150624/west-pullman/reporter-barred-from-jackie-robinson-press-conference-still-has-questions