Let's Just Get This Out of the Way

[BenCat12]

McDermott has a career 164-142 (54%) record without Dougie.  Let's see what he can do without him and without gaming the system.  I am not convinced.  Creighton does have a strong following, a nice arena, and plenty of money, but I am not sure (a) how good McDermott is as a coach, (b) how long McDermott wants to stay, and (c) recruiting, do quality players really want to play for Creighton?

Butler is interesting because it doesn't seem like their recruiting has matched their success.  Their tournament resume over the last decade is remarkable and while they have received commitments from better recruits, it is not to the level you would expect given their success.  Not sure what to make of their coach either.  Stevens leaving was a greater loss than many thought.

IMO these two schools will make or break the conference going forward.  Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova should be fairly consistent going forward.  DePaul played better at the end of the season, but going forward?  I do like the way Providence, St. Johns and Seton Hall are trending, but time will tell.  Butler and Creighton are key for the future of the NBE.

[The Equalizer]

You really can't discount the legal and political ramifications of such a move.  Hell Georgetown alone has bestowed half of DC with a degree or another....you don't think that network puts up a fight in the halls of congress over something like this?

I think the "Georgetown network" is pragmatic enough to understand that Georgetown can't dictate to any other school which athletic association they must belong to, or what minimum terms that association chooses to establish for its members.

After all, Georgetown is already a member of two such organizations (The NCAA and the Big East) which have set up similar arrangements setting up minimum membership requirements. 

And once again, nobody would be keeping Georgetown out of any new association. They'd have only established a reasonable floor for membership ("We're a football based association, and all members must support a minimally viable football program").   

I don't think any reasonable argument could be made that Congress should establish the NCAA as a monopoly that any football or basketball playing school must belong to by law. 

[frozena pizza]

I think you can assume that teams like Xavier, Butler and Creighton will get a slight bump in recruiting by playing in the Big East relative to the MVC or A-10 (or the Horizon).  Agree that Xavier is best positioned for long term success and I think they will be in the mix just about every year, as Marquette should.  Providence is clearly trending well as is St. John's.  Villanova and Georgetown will always be strong.  Seton Hall has some work to do but I like where they are headed under Willard much more than that idiot Bobby Gonzalez.  I think we will be roughly the same or slightly better next year and will be a bubble team.

[Benny B]

I think you're thinking too narrowly.  FBS + FCS.  158 total schools.  Gives you 90%+ of the money-earning basketball program, splits off 200 D1 basketball programs, most of which are money sucking, low-majors.   Still gives the likes of OSU and Michigan a tremendous number of options for their non-conference without resorting to Alabama or Wisconsin out of the gate.

Right there... that defeats the primary purpose of the "split," which is not to separate football from non-football, but to enhance revenue for the BCS schools.  If you're taking along the dead weight, you're not doing what you set out to accomplish in the first place.

But even barring that option, there would be nothing to stop the new association from permitting its members from schedling a certain number of games against NCAA members.

After all, the NCAA doesn't bar teams from scheduling D2 or D3 opponents.  Few of them do this from a practical perspective, but nothing would stop an Ohio State or Michigan from scheduling a lower-power team from outside its association.

We're no longer talking about divisions of the NCAA "crossing over"... we're talking about two separate and distinct athletic organizations if the BCS splits.  NCAA can't hold sanctioned competitions against non-member institutions outside the limited scope of exhibitions, and the BCS would have to be complete morons to "count" the results of cross-over games in their own standings when the NCAA teams consider them exhibitions.

An tournament that features Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Indiana, Duke, etc. is going to suffer prestige and lack for a television contract when compared to one where the likes of Villanova and St. Louis represent the cream of the crop?   Hardly. 

NCAA has been trying to trademark "Cinderella" for decades.  They keep failing, but they keep trying.  Why?  Because "Cinderella story lines" are the cornerstone of the mystique that has built the tourney into what it is today.  Villanova in 1985.  Butler in 2009-2010.  Fla Gulf Coast last year.  It's underdog stories like that which have contributed to the NCAA Tournament brand much more so than any Final Four involving UNC, Duke, UCLA and UK potentially ever could.

Plus, I doubt that the CBS money is contractually guarnteed in the event that UK, KU, UNC, ULCA, IU, Duke, etc all leave.  I'm guessing there is a change of conditions clause that would unwind that contract pretty fast.

That may be, but the money is not guaranteed wherever it is they go and whatever it is they do.  But whatever the contract turns out to be, it's certain to be less than what it is now.

Plus, the new association could always invite participants from the old NCAA. 

See above.  Again, this is all about revenue enhancement, i.e. maximizing the income and minimizing the number of shares.  If you start inviting NCAA participants to fill out your field, you're going to have to split a lesser amount of money than you had before the split the same number of ways you had to before the split.

If FBS+FCS leave the NCAA and form a 158 team all-sport association they aren't keeping anyone out.  If anything, they are providing their members a viable alternative to the NCAA, where all teams would be welcome to stay. 

They will simply set up a minimum requirement to have a football team with 85 scholarships, and probably some minimum stadium size requirement.  But that's no different than what the NCAA does or individual conferences do today.

If the DePauls and Marquettes and Xaviers of the world want to participate, all they have to do is start a football program and play in a 30,000 seat stadium.

Organizations that establish arbitrary thresholds and obstacles to participation the likes of what you're outlining above are like crack to a plaintiff's attorney.  And since you're talking about a consortium made up primarily of large, public institutions keeping out the smaller public and private institutions, you're going to be in a world of hurt politically if you try to uphold something like that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Remember that the NCAA television contract for hoops is with the NCAA.  If schools breakaway from the NCAA, that money is not going to follow to the other schools.  Now, if the schools leave does that mean the contract gets torn up?  Interesting question. 

[mattyv1908]

You accuse me of hyperbole than then say its a 2 bid league.  You can't even name the players on our roster next year, let alone any other team.

Try this

5 bid league ... Nova, X, Prov, MU and GT are looking good for bids next year.

MU can't get one?  See 13-17 (5-13) Nova two years ago.  Many of the same players on this year's 2 seed team were on that team.

So, wait until you can name the rosters before you start with incorrect conference assessments.

Off the top of my head the roster will consist of Derrick Wilson, Anderson, Mayo, Taylor, Burton, Johnson, Dawson, Fisher, Duane Wilson, Pierce, Hill and someone I'm forgetting.

The Big East would have been a two bid team this season but two things happened.

1.  Xavier beat Marquette in the BET and snuck in as one of the last two at large teams.

2.  Providence won the BET or they would have been left out.

Just because you wish it wasn't true doesn't mean it's inaccurate.  This conference as it stands now doesn't have the horses to be a consistent 5 bid league.

Now don't you have some roster memorization to attend to?

[Tugg Speedman]

Who is leaving?  JJJ, STj?  Who is coming?  Anthony Lee, Male k Harris.  Who get hurts and misses next season?

Answer those questions and your outlook changes.

That's what you don't know times 10 teams that makes your 2 bid forecasts useless.

[mattyv1908]

Who is leaving?  JJJ, STj?  Who is coming?  Anthony Lee, Male k Harris.  Who get hurts and misses next season?

Answer those questions and your outlook changes.

That's what you don't know times 10 teams that makes your 2 bid forecasts useless.

Keep pretending.  The league needed a disappointing Marquette loss (for us fans) at the hands of Xavier and an unlikely Providence championship to avoid a 2 bid league this year.

And my official forecast is they get three teams in next season.  Were you out with the flu when they covered reading comprehension in grade school?

[chapman]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24466354/hirings-and-firings-2014-college-basketball-coaching-changes

Back to something at least semi-related to this link / the original thread.  Any ideas for good potential assistants? 

Tom Herrion intrigues me - Pitt was some serious success when he was on Dixon's staff, Buzz could possibly have had enough connection with him to place Mbao at Marshall upon getting that job. 

[mattyv1908]

Let me summarize this thread ... Buzz is going to leave because his thinks the NBE sucks?

In the history of the NCAA has a coach ever left his school because of how he perceives his conference, rather than how he perceives his team?  Crean left because Shumpert made him believe their was a recruiting ceiling here, nothing about the conference.  Brad Stevens took a better job, he jump to a storied NBA franchise.

I think this is complete BS.  If Buzz leaves its because he perceives a deficiency at MU that does not exist at his next job.  Or he takes what he beleives is clearly a better job.  That decision will never involve the perception of the conference.

Care to rethink this post?