Stop defending the "STARTING" unit.

[jeffreyweee]

Well, one of his player crushes is Derrick. We all know that. Last season, Buzz said repeatedly Derrick "should" start over Junior. But did Derrick start? No. Did Derrick even play really meaningful minutes most big games? No. Why? Because Buzz wants to win and isn't going to play an inferior guy if he believes he has a better option.

He has a huge crush on Junior too, irrelevant.

[77ncaachamps]

He has a huge crush on Junior too, irrelevant.

Derrick is the only PG with significant experience.
It's just unfortunate that he lacks the offensive game, height, or plethora of minutes to really lead this team.

It's Jake Thomas, I'm more worried about right now. Can't make his own shot, doesn't have the Novak height to shoot over someone, and is a defensive liabilty. JJJ or Deonte is gonna take his minutes away while Jake is relegated to spot 3 pt duty.

[willie warrior]

Derrick is the only PG with significant experience.
It's just unfortunate that he lacks the offensive game, height, or plethora of minutes to really lead this team.

It's Jake Thomas, I'm more worried about right now. Can't make his own shot, doesn't have the Novak height to shoot over someone, and is a defensive liabilty. JJJ or Deonte is gonna take his minutes away while Jake is relegated to spot 3 pt duty.

Jake will hit some 3's against IYew PeeYew and everything will be grand.

[brewcity77]

Simple...He's the best PG on the roster right now.

He thinks so much of Dawson, that even when he was in the game in the first half, Jamil ran the point.  That should tell you something.

+1

Whether people want to accept it or not, DeWil is the starting PG, will be the starting PG, and will continue to get 30+ in most games. Why? Because there's no one else who can do the job. Dawson isn't capable yet. Jamil is a decent fill-in but is better utilized at the swing 3/4. When Dawson plays against legit competition, he plays in a 2/3 spot. Why? He's not ready to be on the ball against top-level competition.

[MarquetteDano]

A lot of bashing the players who played the game today yet nothing said about Mayo?  We needed his minutes and he got suspended.  That hurt our chances as much as anything.

[nyg]

A lot of bashing the players who played the game today yet nothing said about Mayo?  We needed his minutes and he got suspended.  That hurt our chances as much as anything.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40914.0

Oh it was discussed......

[NersEllenson]

+1

Whether people want to accept it or not, DeWil is the starting PG, will be the starting PG, and will continue to get 30+ in most games. Why? Because there's no one else who can do the job. Dawson isn't capable yet. Jamil is a decent fill-in but is better utilized at the swing 3/4. When Dawson plays against legit competition, he plays in a 2/3 spot. Why? He's not ready to be on the ball against top-level competition.

This is all fine and well to speculate - but that's all it is - speculation.  You don't know that Dawson couldn't handle playing the point against top level competition - because he hasn't been given the chance.  When he has run the point in the games he's been able to play in, he hasn't looked shaky with the ball.  Wisconsin doesn't even pressure full court - there is zero resistance to getting the ball into the frontcourt - they nor Ohio State are Louisville.  I can promise, Dawson wouldn't do worse than Derrick Wilson has shown against Ohio State and Wisconsin - seriously - you simply cannot be more ineffective than Derrick was against both those teams - so let's just see if Dawson can give the team more.  There's nothing to lose.

[GGGG]

This is all fine and well to speculate - but that's all it is - speculation.  You don't know that Dawson couldn't handle playing the point against top level competition - because he hasn't been given the chance.  When he has run the point in the games he's been able to play in, he hasn't looked shaky with the ball.  Wisconsin doesn't even pressure full court - there is zero resistance to getting the ball into the frontcourt - they nor Ohio State are Louisville.  I can promise, Dawson wouldn't do worse than Derrick Wilson has shown against Ohio State and Wisconsin - seriously - you simply cannot be more ineffective than Derrick was against both those teams - so let's just see if Dawson can give the team more.  There's nothing to lose.

You don't know either.

But Buzz has a better idea than the rest of us. 

[MU82]

You don't know either.

But Buzz has a better idea than the rest of us. 

Is it possible for me to agree with both brew/Sultan and with Ners on this point?

I do trust that Buzz, who sees these kids for countless hours each week in practice and on film, is far better qualified than any of us about who should play how many minutes.

But still ...

It does seem almost impossible to comprehend that Dawson could have been any less effective than Derrick was against Wisconsin. And that goes for JJJ losing minutes to Jake, too.

[Stretchdeltsig]

We need Duane to start at point.  We need Mayo to start at the 2.  We need Dawson to back up Duane.  Dewilson  should play a few minutes for spelling the above and for special defensive plays.  Ja Wilson should be given the green light to shoot and make plays ala JFB along with Gardner.  Burton should continue to spell Gardner. 

This all rests on Duane Wilson getting on the court soon.  We can turn this season around, but, our guards have to be changed.  Enough said.

[GGGG]

We need Duane to start at point.  We need Mayo to start at the 2.  We need Dawson to back up Duane.  Dewilson  should play a few minutes for spelling the above and for special defensive plays.  Ja Wilson should be given the green light to shoot and make plays ala JFB along with Gardner.  Burton should continue to spell Gardner. 

JFB as a senior shot once for every 3.3 minutes on the floor.

Jamil is shooting once for every 2.2 minutes on the floor.

[NersEllenson]

You don't know either.

But Buzz has a better idea than the rest of us. 

I can't disagree with your point here.  My frustration simply is why not give it a shot and run Dawson/JJ for 30 minutes and see what you get?  Or if Buzz doesn't even want to roll the dice that long - just give them 13-15 minutes in the first half of a game and let's see what happens.  Get a benchmark.  That is all I want...if it's a disaster, you learn something, but if it clicks better - you've gained something.  There is ZERO downside to giving it a shot...

[GGGG]

I can't disagree with your point here.  My frustration simply is why not give it a shot and run Dawson/JJ for 30 minutes and see what you get?  Or if Buzz doesn't even want to roll the dice that long - just give them 13-15 minutes in the first half of a game and let's see what happens.  Get a benchmark.  That is all I want...if it's a disaster, you learn something, but if it clicks better - you've gained something.  There is ZERO downside to giving it a shot...

I expect over the next three of four games (IUPUI, Ball St., Samford) that we will see some other options.

[MU82]

I can't disagree with your point here.  My frustration simply is why not give it a shot and run Dawson/JJ for 30 minutes and see what you get?  Or if Buzz doesn't even want to roll the dice that long - just give them 13-15 minutes in the first half of a game and let's see what happens.  Get a benchmark.  That is all I want...if it's a disaster, you learn something, but if it clicks better - you've gained something.  There is ZERO downside to giving it a shot...

Well, here is what Buzz -- and most coaches -- would say.

If I reward the guy who isn't earning the playing time in practice, what kind of precedent would I be setting?

I'm not saying I totally disagree with you, Ners, I'm just trying to look at this from the coach's perspective.

[Eldon]

There are countless examples, across all 4 major sports at all levels, of players being beat out in practice, but come game time, they step up.  Recall when back up ____________ stepped up during the game when the starting _______________ went down with an injury?  He played so well.  So much so, in fact, that he took the job from the starter, despite being beaten out in practice.

Practice drills, weightlifting, scrimmages, etc., are all great, but THEY DO NOT, CANNOT, PERFECTLY SIMULATE THE ACTUAL GAME ENVIRONMENT.  Not only is this true in sports, but more generally as well (e.g., psychological theories being tested in a lab/controlled setting that do not end up applying to real world situations).

I mean, unless it's clear that the kid (e.g., Dawson) cannot perform at a high-major level and we made a mistake bringing him here (and Buzz and co would know this), then give the kid a chance to prove himself, especially when we're being blown out at home and it's clear the game is over (tOSU).

[jesmu84]

I can't disagree with your point here.  My frustration simply is why not give it a shot and run Dawson/JJ for 30 minutes and see what you get?  Or if Buzz doesn't even want to roll the dice that long - just give them 13-15 minutes in the first half of a game and let's see what happens.  Get a benchmark.  That is all I want...if it's a disaster, you learn something, but if it clicks better - you've gained something.  There is ZERO downside to giving it a shot...

Zero downside? What if the team ends up in such a large hole that they can't come back? What if he would have played JJJ/Dawson for 15 minutes against WI to "see what happens" and we end up down 25 in the first half? Again, you're basically trading a possible offensive increase for an almost assuredly defensive decrease.

[NersEllenson]

Well, here is what Buzz -- and most coaches -- would say.

If I reward the guy who isn't earning the playing time in practice, what kind of precedent would I be setting?

I'm not saying I totally disagree with you, Ners, I'm just trying to look at this from the coach's perspective.

Well practice evaluation is subjective to an extent - but we are getting concrete data/evidence as to the production of Derrick and Jake in game situations.  Why not see if the freshman can step up and give you some juice.  Some guys are better game day players than practice players too.

At this point I'd rather Buzz just run a line system, a la hockey - if he wants to keep his starting 5 together, keep them together - but then roll in the next line (maybe keep Jamil out there) but bring Dawson, Todd, JJJ and Devante - and then compare production of the two lines...

[NersEllenson]

Zero downside? What if the team ends up in such a large hole that they can't come back? What if he would have played JJJ/Dawson for 15 minutes against WI to "see what happens" and we end up down 25 in the first half? Again, you're basically trading a possible offensive increase for an almost assuredly defensive decrease.

You mean like the deficits we consistently end up in with the current starting 5?  Seriously - how can you be arguing the merits of Derrick and Jake?!  Derrick and Jake aren't a disruptive defensive duo in any way shape, or form.  Maybe solid positional defenders - nothing more.  Get a benchmark with the freshman and see what happens.  No, it cannot get any worse - but if it did - at least you know.  Personally, I'm not sure even a 1 game benchmark is fair to assess, but I'd be slightly happier if we at least got a peak to see what would happen.

Don't think for a minute it isn't frustrating for Dawson, JJJ, Burton to be sitting behind this kind of "production."  Do you want to run the risk of those guys getting a bad attitude, potentially consider transferring - when they are all more highly acclaimed recruits than Derrick (actually Dawson was a 3 star like Derrick) than Jake/Juan?

[jesmu84]

Seriously - how can you be arguing the merits of Derrick and Jake?! 

Don't think for a minute it isn't frustrating for Dawson, JJJ, Burton to be sitting behind this kind of "production."  Do you want to run the risk of those guys getting a bad attitude, potentially consider transferring - when they are all more highly acclaimed recruits than Derrick (actually Dawson was a 3 star like Derrick) than Jake/Juan?

It's called risk management.

And, considering neither of us knows what goes on in practice, perhaps Jake and Derrick are much better than Dawson and JJJ in practice. So, to them, it may not be all that frustrating.

[NersEllenson]

It's called risk management.

And, considering neither of us knows what goes on in practice, perhaps Jake and Derrick are much better than Dawson and JJJ in practice. So, to them, it may not be all that frustrating.

I'd say it's been quite risky continuing to trot out Derrick and Jake for 30+ minutes per game.  They've lead us to 4 defeats against the 4 decent teams we've played.

I don't think SDSU and ASU are much better teams than what the middle of the Big East will be - Butler, Creighton, Georgetown, maybe even Xavier.  At this point, if nothing changes, I don't see MU finishing above 5th in the Big East which would be a huge disappointment.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

FIRE BUZZ!!! He clearly has no idea what he is doing.

Does this sound stupid? It should. But if Buzz was truly playing the wrong players than he should be fired. So unless you truly think you are smarter than Buzz...