Same chicken little-ing, different season

[MarquetteDano]

There are definitely the self-righteous posters who eagerly anticipate the first negative criticism so they can claim ultimate Warrior loyalty and put down everyone else as chicken littles.

I guess it depends on what you mean by negative criticism.  I would guess the median age of this board is above thirty years old.  If you are saying those older people slamming teens and young twenty something's who represent our University is equal to them getting slammed  I cannot agree.

If you are talking about slamming the coaching staff... then I agree.

[The Equalizer]

He did in 2013 ... Duane Wilson.  Then he broke his foot and it out (similar to Junior his Freshman year).

And my point was that he should have done it in 2012, so he could back up Cadougan for 10-15 mpg for a year, then step up to a starting role.

[brewcity77]

I want to go on record that we are good. We did not play that bad Saturday. We missed a lot of good shots. Mayo shot horribly, but I thought he played well and I thought it was quite clear that Buzz wants him taking a lot of shots. Just one of those days, IMO. Also, people pining for Junior Cadougan are laughable. Derrick is fine. This was basically his first start of any substance (Wisconsin game was a surprise start). Give him time to gain some confidence. How was The great Junior his first few games? How about Diener? Acker? Cubes? Wilson is a better athlete than any of them. He's never gonna be a great shooter, but he's fine.

+2

I agree with PRN and keefe. We played a bad 7 minutes, starting with the Shannon Scott steal and dunk. Ohio State was up 27-23 and we were very much in it. They went on a 13-3 run and effectively put the game away.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State

Are we noticing a pattern yet?

You can neither win nor lose a season before Christmas.

[MU82]

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State

Are we noticing a pattern yet?

You can neither win nor lose a season before Christmas.

This is, of course, right. But so is this (as the mutual-fund companies say): Past performance is not an indication of future results.

[bilsu]

I want to go on record that we are good. We did not play that bad Saturday. We missed a lot of good shots. Mayo shot horribly, but I thought he played well and I thought it was quite clear that Buzz wants him taking a lot of shots. Just one of those days, IMO. Also, people pining for Junior Cadougan are laughable. Derrick is fine. This was basically his first start of any substance (Wisconsin game was a surprise start). Give him time to gain some confidence. How was The great Junior his first few games? How about Diener? Acker? Cubes? Wilson is a better athlete than any of them. He's never gonna be a great shooter, but he's fine.

Except after we took a 21-19 lead in second half Ohio St was repeatedly allowed to take the ball to the basket and they quickly jumped to an 8 point lead. The offense struggled all day, but in the end it was that defensive lapse that killed us.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't like how we lost. Only scoring 35 on your home court does not feel good. However, I do think this loss is good for us. It puts the chip back on our shoulder.

[GooooMarquette]

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State

Are we noticing a pattern yet?

You can neither win nor lose a season before Christmas.

Agreed on the pattern and on the conclusion. 

That said, in previous seasons, we had more opportunities to make up for early losses in a stronger BE, with opponents like UL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and UConn.  After the four early losses you mentioned in the 2010-11 season, we still had ELEVEN games against ranked opponents during the BE regular season and tournament.  We have added three very respectable teams to the conference, but the BE isn't what it used to be so the margin for early season losses is decreasing. 

I still think we make the dance and have a good shot for a nice run.  Just wanted to point out that this pattern might not always work like it has in the past....

[willie warrior]

Agreed on the pattern and on the conclusion. 

That said, in previous seasons, we had more opportunities to make up for early losses in a stronger BE, with opponents like UL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and UConn.  After the four early losses you mentioned in the 2010-11 season, we still had ELEVEN games against ranked opponents during the BE regular season and tournament.  We have added three very respectable teams to the conference, but the BE isn't what it used to be so the margin for early season losses is decreasing. 

I still think we make the dance and have a good shot for a nice run.  Just wanted to point out that this pattern might not always work like it has in the past....

So he prevailing philosophy/wisdom is that we should continue to lose these big out of conference early season games, because that means we will win big in post season? I get it, so why even try, right?

[GooooMarquette]

So he prevailing philosophy/wisdom is that we should continue to lose these big out of conference early season games, because that means we will win big in post season? I get it, so why even try, right?

No, the prevailing wisdom is that early season losses don't necessarily mean the season is over.  Hope you can see the difference.

[lab_warrior]

So he prevailing philosophy/wisdom is that we should continue to lose these big out of conference early season games, because that means we will win big in post season? I get it, so why even try, right?

No, that's not the prevailing philosophy/wisdom, that's your (and others) straw man argument.

[madtownwarrior]

The difference is the previous three years did not have the worst backcourt in basketball history...

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State

Are we noticing a pattern yet?

You can neither win nor lose a season before Christmas.

[ATL MU Warrior]

The difference is the previous three years did not have the worst backcourt in basketball history...

Oh sweet baby Jesus, give it a rest already.

[madtownwarrior]

or you may look at it this way, with the current back court performance, it may look like like this:

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State, Blown out by ASU, Blown out by Wisconsin, Blown out by Creighton, Blown out by Georgetown, Blown out by St John's (NIT Second Round)

[Newsdreams]

or you may look at it this way, with the current back court performance, it may look like like this:

2010: Lost every big non-conference game we played in (Duke & Gonzaga in CBE, @ Vandy, Wisconsin) and made Sweet 16
2011: Blown out by Vanderbilt (Sweet 16, Big East Runners-up)
2012: Blown out by Florida (Elite 8, Big East Champions)
2013: Blown out by Ohio State, Blown out by ASU, Blown out by Wisconsin, Blown out by Creighton, Blown out by Georgetown, Blown out by St John's (NIT Second Round)

Very consistent!

[MU82]

Notre Dame won the mythical football championship in 1966, 1977 and 1988. ND faithful took it as a given that it was destined to win another in 1999.

Unfortunately, the '99 squad then had to start playing games and Bob Davie led his gallant lads to a 5-7 record. And it's now been 25 long years since that last pretend championship.

Patterns don't automatically repeat. That's not how sports -- or real life -- works.

I'm not saying Marquette's recent pattern can't or won't repeat. I'm just saying that we shouldn't necessarily expect something to happen just because it did the last few years.

[MerrittsMustache]

Notre Dame won the mythical football championship in 1966, 1977 and 1988. ND faithful took it as a given that it was destined to win another in 1999.

Unfortunately, the '99 squad then had to start playing games and Bob Davie led his gallant lads to a 5-7 record. And it's now been 25 long years since that last pretend championship.

Patterns don't automatically repeat. That's not how sports -- or real life -- works.

I'm not saying Marquette's recent pattern can't or won't repeat. I'm just saying that we shouldn't necessarily expect something to happen just because it did the last few years.

ND obviously didn't have the same coach during that time frame.

[Lennys Tap]

Notre Dame won the mythical football championship in 1966, 1977 and 1988. ND faithful took it as a given that it was destined to win another in 1999.

Unfortunately, the '99 squad then had to start playing games and Bob Davie led his gallant lads to a 5-7 record. And it's now been 25 long years since that last pretend championship.

Patterns don't automatically repeat. That's not how sports -- or real life -- works.

I'm not saying Marquette's recent pattern can't or won't repeat. I'm just saying that we shouldn't necessarily expect something to happen just because it did the last few years.

C'mon 82, you're too smart to make such an absurd analogy. Marquette's "pattern" is a real one. Similar losses, similar players, same coach, similar results. Notre Dame's "pattern" is no such thing. It's merely a coincidence that some moronic numerologist might find interesting.

[tower912]

Notre Dame won the mythical football championship in 1966, 1977 and 1988. ND faithful took it as a given that it was destined to win another in 1999.

Unfortunately, the '99 squad then had to start playing games and Bob Davie led his gallant lads to a 5-7 record. And it's now been 25 long years since that last pretend championship.

Patterns don't automatically repeat. That's not how sports -- or real life -- works.

I'm not saying Marquette's recent pattern can't or won't repeat. I'm just saying that we shouldn't necessarily expect something to happen just because it did the last few years.

Buzz is still the coach.   Buzz installs defense first and offense later.   For 5 years, Buzz's teams have been better late in the year than they were early, with the exception of 08-09 and DJames broken foot.    I saw as good a defensive performance and as dominating a rebounding performance as a Buzz coached team has put up.   I also saw a team that couldn't make a shot if their lives depended on it.   The only question is whether that was a predictor or an aberration.   If it is a fluke, then this team will be fine.   If it is a predictor, then this year is going to be challenging.  

[MU82]

C'mon 82, you're too smart to make such an absurd analogy. Marquette's "pattern" is a real one. Similar losses, similar players, same coach, similar results. Notre Dame's "pattern" is no such thing. It's merely a coincidence that some moronic numerologist might find interesting.

OK, I'll take the ribbing for maybe a dopey analogy. But I would argue that we do not have similar players. I have vowed not to comment about our backcourt again at least until after the next game, but Vander, Junior, DJO, Acker, Cooby, Wes, Jerel and Dominic aren't walking through that door anytime soon ...

[keefe]

OK, I'll take the ribbing for maybe a dopey analogy. But I would argue that we do not have similar players. I have vowed not to comment about our backcourt again at least until after the next game, but Vander, Junior, DJO, Acker, Cooby, Wes, Jerel and Dominic aren't walking through that door anytime soon ...

[brewcity77]

The difference is the previous three years did not have the worst backcourt in basketball history...

Neither does this year's.