So at what point

[MU82]

I actually believe going early would make sense for him. The NBA very much like having an extra year, since he is young, to develop him. Love him or hate him the kid will get paid to play basketball for ten years after college, either NBA or overseas. Again, I would be shocked to see him at MU next year.

The only smart decision is the one that makes the most sense over the long term. It's pretty hard to argue right now that Vander has guaranteed himself a long, successful career of playing for money. Is he further along than Butler, Hayward or Crowder were after their junior years? Did they not benefit greatly from another year of college basketball, both in skill development and maturity?

I continue to say he absolutely should return (unless he has an amazing second half of this season), but whether he returns or not depends upon the advice he gets.

[Goose]

MU82

I want him to return both for him and the team. I am not saying he should go but believe he is being told from people close to him to go. I would not argue another season might be very good for him. However, when he is playing well he plays at different speed than most games are played at in college. His athletic skills might be better used in NBA.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I actually believe going early would make sense for him. The NBA very much like having an extra year, since he is young, to develop him. Love him or hate him the kid will get paid to play basketball for ten years after college, either NBA or overseas. Again, I would be shocked to see him at MU next year.

I would be shocked if he ISN'T here next year. It would mean he is listening to people he shouldn't be listening to.

Besides, it takes two to tango....an NBA team will have to draft him.  He doesn't just get to leave and be on a team.  If he leaves and isn't drafted, well then he's off to Europe.  Or do you play your senior year and actually get ready and have a real chance to get drafted in the NBA.

I would hope people give him sage advice because leaving after his junior year is likely not going to fulfill his NBA dreams.  He just scored 30 points against the worst team in the Big East.  He's averaging under 15 points per game, less than 2 assists and about 3 rebounds.  He is not a good shooter...a lot of work to do.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

you can be sure that Wesley will be helping VB with his NBA decision.

[Lennys Tap]

Connections to whom?  He has no chance of getting drafted.

You thought I was serious? Sorry, didn't think teal was necessary.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You thought I was serious? Sorry, didn't think teal was necessary.

Plenty of connections, as does Buzz

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2012/10/25/erik-spoelstra-miami-coach-pat-riley-lebron-james/1656211/

We meet with the Lakers guys down the street on occasion.  He's very connected as are a number of NCAA coaches at his level.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Plenty of connections, as does Buzz

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/heat/2012/10/25/erik-spoelstra-miami-coach-pat-riley-lebron-james/1656211/

We meet with the Lakers guys down the street on occasion.  He's very connected as are a number of NCAA coaches at his level.

Nobody's arguing that.  We're saying it won't mean jack sheeeeeit in terms of Hulls' draft status.

[Lennys Tap]

Nobody's arguing that.  We're saying it won't mean jack sheeeeeit in terms of Hulls' draft status.

Bingo

[Goose]

Lenny

If you had not mentioned your post we might not have learned about the Lakers pow wows.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nobody's arguing that.  We're saying it won't mean jack sheeeeeit in terms of Hulls' draft status.

Agree.  I would also, however, state that it can certainly help to get a kid a look, picked up in free agency, etc, if your college coach is well connected to the NBA. 

As for the draft, there have been players drafted based on much input and the relationship of the college coach to the NBA team.  It sealed the deal to take the kid because they know the college coach and his word matters.  In this case, I don't see it happening because Hulls isn't going to get drafted.  Then again, Tom Crean never said Hulls was going to get drafted either.  Plenty of NBA guys that go undrafted still found a niche on a team because they filled a need and landed on the team via free agency.  What Crean said back in November is that Hulls was a deliberate, solid, heady player like Travis Diener, who happened to stick with a few teams.  Travis is a better player in my opinion, but since Crean coached both, recruited both, he certainly knows their games better than 99.99% of the folks out there.

[Lennys Tap]

What Crean said back in November is that Hulls was a deliberate, solid, heady player like Travis Diener, who happened to stick with a few teams.  Travis is a better player in my opinion, but since Crean coached both, recruited both, he certainly knows their games better than 99.99% of the folks out there.

He may have said that, but he also said he would be playing in the Association. In the snippet I watched, he also said that Georgia (whom IU had just struggled to beat) was an NCAA tournament team who would win 22-25 games this year. Now, he prepared for and played the Bulldogs, so I'm sure TC knows their game better than 99.99% of the folks out there. That didn't stop him from grossly overrating them. I think the same is true regarding Hulls.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Agree.  I would also, however, state that it can certainly help to get a kid a look, picked up in free agency, etc, if your college coach is well connected to the NBA. 

As for the draft, there have been players drafted based on much input and the relationship of the college coach to the NBA team.  It sealed the deal to take the kid because they know the college coach and his word matters.  In this case, I don't see it happening because Hulls isn't going to get drafted.  Then again, Tom Crean never said Hulls was going to get drafted either.  Plenty of NBA guys that go undrafted still found a niche on a team because they filled a need and landed on the team via free agency.  What Crean said back in November is that Hulls was a deliberate, solid, heady player like Travis Diener, who happened to stick with a few teams.  Travis is a better player in my opinion, but since Crean coached both, recruited both, he certainly knows their games better than 99.99% of the folks out there.

Well that's a complete crock, because the only things they have in common is that they're white, undersized, and can shoot the 3.  It's the lazy sports fan's comparison.  Diener was a true point - he led the nation in assist rate his senior year.  Hulls is having his best season in that category, and he comes in at #387.  If you think Vander can't get drafted this year, how does a 6' shooting guard that plays terrible D and craps his pants when he drives the lane has a snowball's chance in hell at making the league - drafted or undrafted - even if his coach has all the NBA contacts in the world?

[ChicosBailBonds]

He may have said that, but he also said he would be playing in the Association. In the snippet I watched, he also said that Georgia (whom IU had just struggled to beat) was an NCAA tournament team who would win 22-25 games this year. Now, he prepared for and played the Bulldogs, so I'm sure TC knows their game better than 99.99% of the folks out there. That didn't stop him from grossly overrating them. I think the same is true regarding Hulls.

Could be...then again Buzz said this team is bad....so does that make us bad or does that make it coach speak?

I'm sure we can all pull up comments Buzz has made about how good some teams are and they ended up being not very good...every coach does it so as not to disrespect the other coach.  Nothing new there.

Personally, considering the timing of the comments around the beginning of the year, I take it as a motivational tactic he was using to get the kid to play better, especially on the defensive side.  Give him something to aim for.  He certainly isn't going to get drafted, which TC didn't say.  Yes, he could get a look, but it would be surprising to see him play in the association.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well that's a complete crock, because the only things they have in common is that they're white, undersized, and can shoot the 3.  It's the lazy sports fan's comparison.  Diener was a true point - he led the nation in assist rate his senior year.  Hulls is having his best season in that category, and he comes in at #387.  If you think Vander can't get drafted this year, how does a 6' shooting guard that plays terrible D and craps his pants when he drives the lane has a snowball's chance in hell at making the league - drafted or undrafted - even if his coach has all the NBA contacts in the world?

You might have missed the part where I said Diener is the better player.  You might have also missed the part where I said he won't get drafted, NO ONE has said he will get drafted, including TC.  You might have also missed the part where I said I doubt he ever plays in the association and it was likely a motivational comment.

In case you missed those parts.

[Goose]

I am more interested if Buzz has connections than if TC does or does not. TC is in rearview mirror and yet a day seldom goes by without menion of him. I have heard Buzz talk several times and it sounds like he talks to all the right people. Maybe TC should call Buzz and call in favor to get his guy a look.

[Silkk the Shaka]

You might have missed the part where I said Diener is the better player.  You might have also missed the part where I said he won't get drafted, NO ONE has said he will get drafted, including TC.  You might have also missed the part where I said I doubt he ever plays in the association and it was likely a motivational comment.

In case you missed those parts.

I said Diener is not only a better player, but a DIFFERENT player.  One guy shoots open threes off the kickout.  That's his entire offensive game.  The other guy was the best ball distributor in the nation.  But hey, they're both "heady" (a.k.a. white), so why not make that lazy comparison?  Also, you're comletely ignoring the fact that Crean's contacts will not mean a single thing in terms of Hulls making the league, which was Lenny's joke to begin with.

[77ncaachamps]

A solid senior season, where he leads HIS team, makes more clutch plays, takes OVER games, and shows he is clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the competition on his way to 1st BE will be the reason why he doesn't declare and returns.

Hasn't done enough.

Yet.

The only things I can think of that would force him to play with the thought of leaving: test draft waters to be evaluated on what to work on during his senior campaign and/or a very DEEP run in the NCAAs where he becomes poster boy for the match-ups.

[martyconlonontherun]

Just to see what NBA players looked like in college, here is the bio of 9 SGs drafted last year.

I think blue is going need to bump up his scoring to close to 20 and raise that 3% up to around 38% his senior year to get drafted.

Blue 6'4 (JR) 15 on 45%/32%

DJO 6'2 (SR) 18.3 on 45%/38%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/darius-johnson-odom

Kim English 6'6 (SR) 14 on 52%/46%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/missouri/kim-english

Doron Lamb 6'4 (Sop) 14 on 47%/47%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/kentucky/doron-lamb

Will Barton 6'6 (Sop) 18 on 51%/35%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/memphis/will-barton

Orlando Johnson 6'5 (SR) 20 on 45%/43%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/california-santa-barbara/orlando-johnson

John Jenkins 6'4 (JR) 20 on 47%/44%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/vanderbilt/2-john-jenkins

Jeremy Lamb 6'5 (Frosh) 11 on 48%/39%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lamb

Terrance Ross 6'6 (Sph) 16 on 46%/37%
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/washington/terrence-ross

Bradley Beal 6'3 (Frosh) 15 on 45/34%