G'Town...their 5th best big would start for MU

[Wade for President]

Jeff Green is just unbelievable.  The more I see of that guy, the more I love him.  Crushes the glass, tremendous defender, has great handles for a big, can bang down low or sink the 3 ball.

It was funny because I found myself cheering like a G'town grad on Sunday.  That comeback was nuts, and their performance in O.T. was dominating.

I don't know if I've seen a college team so deep with big guys.  Hibbert is a man amongst boys, Green is incredible, Summers is great, Ewing Jr. played well yesterday, Macklin looks promising, and Egerson plays bigger then his 6'6" frame.

[NYWarrior]

Summers -- he's one helluva player.  Gonna be a great pro.

[AlumKCof93]

I agree WFP.  I love this Georgetown team and couldn't be happier after they pulled that one out yesterday.  Green is a smart, intense player who is very smart out there.  Meanwhile, I think JWT 3 is one of the best coaches out there.

I grew up rooting against G-town.  Now my 7 year-old is rooting for them like they're MU. I'm glad they're representing the BE so well.

[77ncaachamps]

I love how people say that the tourney is a guard game.
Then they say look at UCLA.

But
Gtown has Green, Hibbert, and Macklin.
Florida has Noah and Horford.
Ohio State has Oden. That's about it.
And
Oregon lost because they couldn't battle the bigs.

For MU to experience this success, they NEED bigs who are active, rebound, defend and shoot.

[muarmy81]

I love how people say that the tourney is a guard game.
Then they say look at UCLA.

But
Gtown has Green, Hibbert, and Macklin.
Florida has Noah and Horford.
Ohio State has Oden. That's about it.
And
Oregon lost because they couldn't battle the bigs.

For MU to experience this success, they NEED bigs who are active, rebound, defend and shoot.

...And running an efficient half court offense like Georgetown's wouldn't hurt either.  You gotta love those back door cuts.

[Chili]

I love how people say that the tourney is a guard game.
Then they say look at UCLA.

But
Gtown has Green, Hibbert, and Macklin.
Florida has Noah and Horford.
Ohio State has Oden. That's about it.
And
Oregon lost because they couldn't battle the bigs.

For MU to experience this success, they NEED bigs who are active, rebound, defend and shoot.

And UCLA has no one over 6'9" and they have gone to back to back Final Fours.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Isn't it just common sense that to be an elite team you need talent at all of the postions?

You can win a lot of games with great guards or great bigs, but to be a great team you need to have talent at all positions and a gamplan that maximizes that particular teams talents.

IF/When MU lands a big man who can score, that player will have an opportunity to get 10-15 shots a game and be a major part of the offense.

[CTWarrior]

A low post threat for MU would help our guards more than anything.  Besides, I don't think anyone, Chicos included, really advocates that you don't need quality bigs to compete for final fours and national championships.  You need both.  I'll agree with Chicos in that a team with terrible guards and a good frontcourt will do worse than a team with good guards and a terrible frontcourt.  But I'd advise having quality everywhere if you want to make FFs.

[dwaderoy2004]

you guys seriously don;t read posts.  chicos has never said "you don;t need bigs to compete for national championships".  i don;t think anyone in the history of sports have ever uttered such words.  all he is saying is you start with guards - because the bigs can't feed themselves - and with strong guard play and average bigs you can advance very far in the ncaa tourney.  see oregon and ucla this year...

[ChicosBailBonds]

I love how people say that the tourney is a guard game.
Then they say look at UCLA.

But
Gtown has Green, Hibbert, and Macklin.
Florida has Noah and Horford.
Ohio State has Oden. That's about it.
And
Oregon lost because they couldn't battle the bigs.

For MU to experience this success, they NEED bigs who are active, rebound, defend and shoot.

Oregon lost because they shot 25% from trey land....they essentially shut down Florida's bigs.

And please point out ONE POST..EVER...where I said we don't need quality bigs?

rocky's edit: now now chicos, name calling?  childish...

[NYWarrior]

Oregon lost because they shot 25% from trey land....they essentially shut down Florida's bigs.

I dunno, Chicos.   Noah went for 14 and 14....and Oregon was outrebounded by 35-21.  21 was exactly the number of boards that Noah and Horford combined to grab for UF.

[Nukem2]

Florida did help keep Oregon in the game by missing 15 free throws.  Make a few of those and the game might have been a rout at the 4 minute mark.

[tonyreeder]

That darn NY Warrior and his facts.   A 14 rebound differential and Noah with 14 and 14.    Quite the shutdown.

[SoCalwarrior]

Isn't it just common sense that to be an elite team you need talent at all of the postions?

You can win a lot of games with great guards or great bigs, but to be a great team you need to have talent at all positions and a gamplan that maximizes that particular teams talents.

IF/When MU lands a big man who can score, that player will have an opportunity to get 10-15 shots a game and be a major part of the offense.

I agree with you 2002mualum.  A good final four recipe is some future NBA talent and a better than average supporting cast.  I'm sure you can look at every final four, (barring the exception) and find that every team had more than one future NBA player.  Here is our year as an example.

2003 final four

Marquette
Wade
Diener
Novak

Kansas
Collison
Hinrich
Langford
A. Miles

Texas
T. Ford
B. Mouton
J. Thomas
R. Ivey

Syracuse
H. Warrick
C. Anthony

[Marquette84]

You only get a rebound off a miss.

If the point was that Orgeon's poor shooting was the cause of their loss, pointing out that Florida had a rebounding edge isn't the appropriate counter argument.  

If Oregon hits more shots, Florida has fewer rebound opportunities.  

What I found interesting is that for all their inside strenght, Florida had almost as many 3 pointers (11) as two point baskets (12), and shot nearly 50% on treys.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oregon lost because they shot 25% from trey land....they essentially shut down Florida's bigs.

I dunno, Chicos.   Noah went for 14 and 14....and Oregon was outrebounded by 35-21.  21 was exactly the number of boards that Noah and Horford combined to grab for UF.

Noah went 4-9 from the floor and Horford 1-3....the two together got 20 points between them when they average closer to 26.

Porter had a miserable shooting day, but despite that a 4 guard offense played Florida very well.

Look, to be great you need both.  If you just have guards you won't be great, if you just have big men you won't even be great.  It's easier to build around guards, that has been my only point but I've consistently said you need both to be great (just that you start with the guards because they are easier to get and develop earlier).

The tOSU team is the one that strikes me the most.  Yes, they have Oden but without those guards, they are nothing.  Oden sits on the bench for decades because of foul trouble and OSU does just fine.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That darn NY Warrior and his facts.   A 14 rebound differential and Noah with 14 and 14.    Quite the shutdown.

Yeah...meanwhile the other facts are that the two Gator guards went for 23 and 21 points...those two guys scored more than half of the entire team's total and way more than Brewer, Noah, and Horford COMBINED.

[NYWarrior]

That darn Chicos Bail Bonds and his facts.

ugh   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yea, I'm sorry if I was too ambigious in my post. I wasn't trying to imply that anybody said you could win without bigs.

I'm just saying that picking out great teams to prove a side of this argument just seems a bit silly.

All of the great teams have good front courts and back courts... that's why they are in the final 4.

I think guards probably have a bigger effect on the game in college vs. the NBA because there are not that many elite forwards in college, so it creates a bigger oppotunity for guards to succeed.

The NBA has guys like KG, Marion, and Chris Bosh, all guys who are EXTREMELY long and can guard any position on the floor. Unless you are an elite shooter, or a unique athlete (Dwyane), you will have trouble scoring in the league as a guard. All of the players are so athletic and big, its hard to find enough room to operate on the offensive end.

[ecompt]

Ohio State's offense loses NOTHING when Oden is on the bench. Their guards are as good a group as there is. Defensively, yes, Oden makes a hell of a difference. But give Ohio State mediocre guards with Oden and they're out of the Dance in the second round.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ohio State's offense loses NOTHING when Oden is on the bench. Their guards are as good a group as there is. Defensively, yes, Oden makes a hell of a difference. But give Ohio State mediocre guards with Oden and they're out of the Dance in the second round.

Could not agree more.  Conley, Lewis, Butler and Lighty are fantastic.   Lost in all of this banter is the little factoid that Ohio State is now starting 3 guards, one forward and one center.

DOH.  Oh the irony.   

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=274000046