A closer look at yesterday's game

[NersEllenson]

1) Junior or Reggie HAVE to be on the floor.  Buycks is not meant to be a "1."  Did some +/- analysis and found team was +3 in first half with Reggie at point, -13 with Buycks at the point.  Keep in mind, Bucknell shot 70% from 3 and 68% from 2 in first half.  Hard to have a + number...when a team shoots 70% against you...furthermore we shot roughly 40% from the free throw line in the first half...but point being the team suffered with Buycks at the "1."

2) Junior did okay in the 2nd half, but after reviewing game about the only real contribution I saw him make was taking the charge, as well as hustling down a rebound, going to the ground and knocking it off a Bucknell player for us to get possesion.  I stand by my previous statements that he didn't really "run" the team better...than did Smith.  The difference was Buycks made 3's (and was off the ball), Gardner was a force down low, and Blue hit a couple of shots.  I believe Junior assisted on 2 of those scores...AND Bucknell went ice cold and we go on a 24-0 run.

3) This team will be fine in the long run:  We had 14 turnovers yesterday, of which only 2 were steals.  Think about that...charges, travels, errant passes out of bounds - for the most part, unforced errors.  Clean that up a little bit, great chance at offensive efficiency.

4) Free throw disparity - we took 23 more than Bucknell.  Of those, only about 6 were toward the end of the game with them trying to foul to stop the clock.  Our aggressive play will get us to the line a lot this year.

5) Noticed a couple of time Jimmy Butler could have fed Davante the ball in the post, and DID NOT - he will need to do do that in the future.

6) Would not surprise me to see this MU team trail games at the half, but "win" the 2nd half of 85+% of its games.  The depth, full court pressure, and junkyard dog nature of this team will wear other teams down, cause them to miss shots, make more turnovers, etc.

[MerrittsMustache]

2) Junior did okay in the 2nd half, but after reviewing game about the only real contribution I saw him make was taking the charge, as well as hustling down a rebound, going to the ground and knocking it off a Bucknell player for us to get possesion.  I stand by my previous statements that he didn't really "run" the team better...than did Smith. 

Buzz disagrees.

[Lennys Tap]

1) Junior or Reggie HAVE to be on the floor.  Buycks is not meant to be a "1."  Did some +/- analysis and found team was +3 in first half with Reggie at point, -13 with Buycks at the point.  Keep in mind, Bucknell shot 70% from 3 and 68% from 2 in first half.  Hard to have a + number...when a team shoots 70% against you...furthermore we shot roughly 40% from the free throw line in the first half...but point being the team suffered with Buycks at the "1."

2) Junior did okay in the 2nd half, but after reviewing game about the only real contribution I saw him make was taking the charge, as well as hustling down a rebound, going to the ground and knocking it off a Bucknell player for us to get possesion.  I stand by my previous statements that he didn't really "run" the team better...than did Smith.  The difference was Buycks made 3's (and was off the ball), Gardner was a force down low, and Blue hit a couple of shots.  I believe Junior assisted on 2 of those scores...AND Bucknell went ice cold and we go on a 24-0 run.

3) This team will be fine in the long run:  We had 14 turnovers yesterday, of which only 2 were steals.  Think about that...charges, travels, errant passes out of bounds - for the most part, unforced errors.  Clean that up a little bit, great chance at offensive efficiency.

4) Free throw disparity - we took 23 more than Bucknell.  Of those, only about 6 were toward the end of the game with them trying to foul to stop the clock.  Our aggressive play will get us to the line a lot this year.

5) Noticed a couple of time Jimmy Butler could have fed Davante the ball in the post, and DID NOT - he will need to do do that in the future.

6) Would not surprise me to see this MU team trail games at the half, but "win" the 2nd half of 85+% of its games.  The depth, full court pressure, and junkyard dog nature of this team will wear other teams down, cause them to miss shots, make more turnovers, etc.

Agree with everything except #2. I think our offense looks much smoother with Junior manning the point.

[w0bbie]

I wonder what Junior's +/- was.   I think Junior had an intangible effect on the game during its turning point.  He seemed calm and under control.  He didn't rack up stats but he didn't make any mistakes either.  Also, much has been made about his lackings defensively, but I thought he played solidly on D yesterday.

[NersEllenson]

Buzz disagrees.

I wonder what Junior's +/- was.   I think Junior had an intangible effect on the game during its turning point.  He seemed calm and under control.  He didn't rack up stats but he didn't make any mistakes either.  Also, much has been made about his lackings defensively, but I thought he played solidly on D yesterday.

Pretty sure Buzz is trying to bolster Junior's confidence..as he has been tearing him down a lot in practice...thus the high public praise.  Thought Junior did defend just fine yesterday..but stand by the fact that I believe some are giving him WAY too much credit for the comeback - he had 2 turnovers, 2 assists, 3 rebounds - the only thing that changed was MU got stops, and started hitting shots:  Buycks, Blue and Gardner.  Junior didn't make any of those guys shots "easy."  In fact, he was better on Friday night against PVAM - he set Gardner up real nicely in that game. 

I don't want to come off as harsh toward Junior...but by no means am I convinced he is a better option for us at point than Reggie.  In fact, I will be surprised if Junior gets more minutes this year than Reggie.

[rocky_warrior]

stand by the fact that I believe

Now there's a funny statement.  It is a fact that you believe something, but it doesn't make what you beleive to be fact.

[MerrittsMustache]

Pretty sure Buzz is trying to bolster Junior's confidence..as he has been tearing him down a lot in practice...thus the high public praise.  Thought Junior did defend just fine yesterday..but stand by the fact that I believe some are giving him WAY too much credit for the comeback - he had 2 turnovers, 2 assists, 3 rebounds - the only thing that changed was MU got stops, and started hitting shots:  Buycks, Blue and Gardner.  Junior didn't make any of those guys shots "easy."  In fact, he was better on Friday night against PVAM - he set Gardner up real nicely in that game. 

I don't want to come off as harsh toward Junior...but by no means am I convinced he is a better option for us at point than Reggie.  In fact, I will be surprised if Junior gets more minutes this year than Reggie.

Fair enough. I just don't get the impression that Buzz is the type of coach who gives praise simply to boost a player's confidence. I also don't think that stats always tell the whole story. To use an example from a different sport, Julius Peppers has only 2 sacks for the Bears this season, but the impact that he's had on the defense as a whole has been tremendous.

Yeah, that's a right. I just compared Junior Cadougan and Julius Peppers.

[jaybilaswho?]

4) Free throw disparity - we took 23 more than Bucknell.  Of those, only about 6 were toward the end of the game with them trying to foul to stop the clock.  Our aggressive play will get us to the line a lot this year.

We shot 67.6% from the line yesterday... I would like to see this improve to the 76% we shot last year.

[RJax55]

I just don't get the impression that Buzz is the type of coach who gives praise simply to boost a player's confidence.

I think he does. But that's part of the game... Confidence not only comes from what happens on the court, but what your coach says as well.

Buzz uses coach speak, just look at his pre-game quotes about Prairie View. IMO, that's fine, he's a coach, again its all part of the game.

[NotAnAlum]

Ners - I know you're really trying to figure out this PG thing between Junior and Reggie.  So here is what I want you to watch Wednesday.   Compare where the person getting the pass from either of the two receives the pass.  Is it in a position where that player can immediately make a scoring move or shot or does he "collect" the pass and then have to make a move or shot.  Junior's passes are not only to the man but also in a position where he can immediately make the move.  You see this the most when the front line bigs get the ball because they are not as agile as the guards and therefore that step to collect the ball is more obvious.  Reggie is a great back-up and brings a lot to the table (and of course is a year younger) but he is not as good a set-up man as Junior.

[jeffreyweee]

1) Junior or Reggie HAVE to be on the floor.  Buycks is not meant to be a "1."  Did some +/- analysis and found team was +3 in first half with Reggie at point, -13 with Buycks at the point.  Keep in mind, Bucknell shot 70% from 3 and 68% from 2 in first half.  Hard to have a + number...when a team shoots 70% against you...furthermore we shot roughly 40% from the free throw line in the first half...but point being the team suffered with Buycks at the "1."

2) Junior did okay in the 2nd half, but after reviewing game about the only real contribution I saw him make was taking the charge, as well as hustling down a rebound, going to the ground and knocking it off a Bucknell player for us to get possesion.  I stand by my previous statements that he didn't really "run" the team better...than did Smith.  The difference was Buycks made 3's (and was off the ball), Gardner was a force down low, and Blue hit a couple of shots.  I believe Junior assisted on 2 of those scores...AND Bucknell went ice cold and we go on a 24-0 run.

3) This team will be fine in the long run:  We had 14 turnovers yesterday, of which only 2 were steals.  Think about that...charges, travels, errant passes out of bounds - for the most part, unforced errors.  Clean that up a little bit, great chance at offensive efficiency.

4) Free throw disparity - we took 23 more than Bucknell.  Of those, only about 6 were toward the end of the game with them trying to foul to stop the clock.  Our aggressive play will get us to the line a lot this year.

5) Noticed a couple of time Jimmy Butler could have fed Davante the ball in the post, and DID NOT - he will need to do do that in the future.

6) Would not surprise me to see this MU team trail games at the half, but "win" the 2nd half of 85+% of its games.  The depth, full court pressure, and junkyard dog nature of this team will wear other teams down, cause them to miss shots, make more turnovers, etc.

Boy you really pick and choose what stats you want to look at and when. You signify Reggie is a better point than Buycks because he has a better plus/minus. But then you choose to ignore Junior's +20(ish) as an argument he is better than Reggie?

You really need to take a course in logic or stop posting your "facts that you believe."

Reggie is more lost at point that Junior - it's easy to see. Reggie however is a MUCH better ball pressure guy than junior. I think that they should both get 15-25 mpg at the point and leave buycks/blue/jimmy/djo to sort out the 80mpg available at the 2/3.

[ErickJD08]

I think he does. But that's part of the game... Confidence not only comes from what happens on the court, but what your coach says as well.

Buzz uses coach speak, just look at his pre-game quotes about Prairie View. IMO, that's fine, he's a coach, again its all part of the game.

Not sure.  I remember Buzz ripping plenty of kids to shreds.  Otule, EWill, and Fulce.  I think that's Buzz's deal.  If you get a compliement from Buzz, it means something.  

[RJax55]

Not sure.  I remember Buzz ripping plenty of kids to shreds.  Otule, EWill, and Fulce.  I think that's Buzz's deal.  If you get a compliement from Buzz, it means something.  

I agree, Buzz doesn't give praise, just to give it. And Junior did deserve his compliment. But, did Buzz play it up a bit, IMO yes.

[NersEllenson]

Boy you really pick and choose what stats you want to look at and when. You signify Reggie is a better point than Buycks because he has a better plus/minus. But then you choose to ignore Junior's +20(ish) as an argument he is better than Reggie?

You really need to take a course in logic or stop posting your "facts that you believe."

Reggie is more lost at point that Junior - it's easy to see. Reggie however is a MUCH better ball pressure guy than junior. I think that they should both get 15-25 mpg at the point and leave buycks/blue/jimmy/djo to sort out the 80mpg available at the 2/3.

Guess we'll see how it plays out over the course of the year..and I'll stick with my "fact that I believe."  Junior had very little to do with the scoring plays that were made in our 24-0 run yesterday.  And, +/- analysis can be skewed by a team shooting 70%, compared to say 25% from one half to the next.  Junior's +/- was helped by the fact Bucknell went ice cold and MU started making shots in the 2nd.  I thought Junior's D was solid in the 2nd half...having said that..almost everyone here would agree that Reggie Smith is a better defender than is Junior - so to think the team's defense would have been worse with Reggie in the 2nd half..is...illogical.  Bucknesll was worn down in the 2nd half..and the fact Junior happened to be in the game at that time, and what transpired, largely, was a coincidence.

What is 100% fact is that Buycks offense takes a hit when he is running the point, and for that reason we need him off the ball, because we need his shooting/offensive skills.

[GGGG]

You seem to be using every means at your disposal to discredit JC.  Sure Bucknell went cold..and MU got hot...when he was on the floor.  Did you ever think that it was more than just coincidence??? 

I agree with you that in watching him, Buycks isn't ideal to be point and the PG by committee isn't going to work.  However, Reggie isn't ready right now.  The most logical person for the position is Junior, but Buzz is going to make him *earn* it.  Reggie is going to be a change of pace back up.

I have been saying for awhile now that I think JFB, Jae, JC, Buycks and DJO will be our starting line up...I think that is what it will be by BE season.

[brewcity77]

Easy to look at us right now, but how about Bucknell? I just looked at their roster, and through two games, 4 of their top 6 guys in terms of minutes are sophomores or freshmen, and only one is a senior. They've played close with Villanova and had a sizable lead against us in the second half, both teams projected as top-half Big East teams.

I think this is a team that could rekindle their glass slipper in years to come. Young, talented, and will likely only be better as the next three years progress.

[NersEllenson]

You seem to be using every means at your disposal to discredit JC.  Sure Bucknell went cold..and MU got hot...when he was on the floor.  Did you ever think that it was more than just coincidence??? 

You of all people here know I'm one of the biggest "fanboys" of MU basketball/Buzz/the players.  So, for me to "discredit" Junior, speaks to the level or passion with which I believe the position I'm taking in this matter.  I'm not being critical of Junior by any measure, but rather just trying to look at the actual game, how MU got its points in the 24-0 run, and objectively look at that data and assess Junior's impact.  In my opinion, his role in this 24-0 run was very limited.

I don't think it is a coincidence Bucknell went cold with Junior in the game, because by almost everyone's admission and observation - Reggie and Buycks are better defenders.  Nor do I think Vander, Buycks and Gardner got hot as a result of Junior being in the game (Buycks maybe by virtue of him being able to play off the ball more.)  The big change was Bucknell HAD to sag to the paint to try to contend with Gardner..which created more space on the perimeter and for Buycks to get some good looks from 3.  Again..just my opinion.

[BallBoy]

Ners - I know you're really trying to figure out this PG thing between Junior and Reggie.  So here is what I want you to watch Wednesday.   Compare where the person getting the pass from either of the two receives the pass.  Is it in a position where that player can immediately make a scoring move or shot or does he "collect" the pass and then have to make a move or shot.  Junior's passes are not only to the man but also in a position where he can immediately make the move.  You see this the most when the front line bigs get the ball because they are not as agile as the guards and therefore that step to collect the ball is more obvious.  Reggie is a great back-up and brings a lot to the table (and of course is a year younger) but he is not as good a set-up man as Junior.

Each PG brings something to the table.  I agree with what Ners is saying in that JC's impact on the game was overstated.  Just like DB's lack of ability to play the PG is overstated.  If you look at ESPNs game log for the 24-0 run, a good number the negatives can be traced to JC but so can the positives.  He had two turnovers, 2 fouls, and a couple of missed free throws(if I recall correctly).  During that same stretch DB on the other hand had quite a few positive plays including several assists.  That doesn't tell those whole story though.  Nor does it show that Bucknell was looking tired.

1st scoring play - JC brings the ball down the court gets cut off by the defender and proceeds to throw one arm pass to DB who is 3 steps away.  DB sees a wide open Crowder for the layout.  When DB got the pass three defenders moved out to prevent the three leaving Crowder open.  To Ners point, JC didn't do anything "special" on the play but he did push the ball up before the defense could get set.

2nd Scoring play.  JC wasn't involved other than space the floor.  Ball comes around to Blue on the wing, JC moves to the corner.  Blue feeds Butler for the layup.  As JC didn't touch the ball, it is hard to say he did anything "special."

3rd scoring play - DB is fouled in the act of shooting and gets two free throws.

4th scoring play - JC is standing to on the wing calling for the ball as Buycks drives the lane.  Buycks gets stopped and he passes to Blue who is 10ft from the hoop.  Blue then drives and hits a good basket.

5th scoring play - JC brings the ball up the court.  The defense is on their heels collapsing to the hoop.  Crowder is alone at the top of the key.  JC's sees this and swings it to Crowder who as a wide open three.  Crodwer makes the extra pass to Blue for the open three on the wing.  Great ball movement on all three players parts.  JC doesn't get credit for the assist but if this was hockey he would have.  Doesn't show on the stat sheet.  Had it been Lazar then JC would have gotten the assist.

6th scoring play - Gardner is posting up his guy.  JC is on the wing.  JC takes a couple of dribbles to his left and feeds Gardner with the ball.  Gardner makes a good move to the middle of the lane and shoots.  He misses but follows up his miss with a putback.  Again no assist is counted because Gardner missed his first shot.  We are on assist #2 that will not hit the books.  Could Smith have made the pass?  Sure but he didn't.  

7th scoring play - JC throws a good pass to Gardner who is in the middle of the lane.  Gardner puts it in for the score.  JC is credited with the assist.

8th scoring play - Crowder is at the top of the key with the ball.  He passes it off to Buycks and then takes his man toward the baseline leaving Buycks for an open three.  JC doesn't have any involvement in the play.

9th scoring play - JC drives the lane against his defender.  He is coming from the left wing and throws up a shot.  He is about 12 ft away and it is more of a 1 handed shot.  He isn't really balanced and he is heading towards the hoop.  Lands about 8ft from the hoop.  He shot is a bit long and shots a long rebound back.  Gardner gets the rebound with his long arms and proceeds to take the ball to the hoop for a foul.  Again JC doesn't get a positive stat in the book but he did force the action.  On the flip side, Gardner made the play.  Could Reggie missed a shot that Gardner rebounds to score?  Yes.  gardner makes his free throw.

The last points were 1-1 by DB and DG.  DB makes both and DG makes one.  Of the 9 baskets, I would say JC has a direct impact on 3 of the plays (5, 6, 7), secondary impact on  2 of the plays (1,9) and no impact on 4 of the plays.  That means he was involved in almost 50% of the plays that impacted the streak of points.  MU took the lead on the sixth scoring play.  At the time the JC has his first full impact MU was down by 4 points so they already made an 8 point comeback.   So was JC any more important then DB, Blue, Buycks, Crowder or DG.  I don't think so.  If you look at that stretch Buzz did very little subing.  MU was on a run so he never went more than 7 deep.  That doesn't necessarily mean JC is better or worse than RS or that RS couldn't do it.  Just means JC was there and contributed.  Give him credit for what he did not was someone else could/should/would have done.

[MUSF]

You of all people here know I'm one of the biggest "fanboys" of MU basketball/Buzz/the players.  So, for me to "discredit" Junior, speaks to the level or passion with which I believe the position I'm taking in this matter.

You also happen to be one of the biggest "fanboys" of Reggie Smith.  You've been raving about him since the offseason. 

Are you making an objective observation or rationalizing a previously established opinion that Reggie is going to be the best new player on the team?

[NersEllenson]

Good analysis and points BallBoy - welcome to Scoop.  I think your hockey analagoy is a bit generous..where the pass, that leads to the pass for the assist, counts as an assist..is a bit generous - but no need to split hairs.

[NersEllenson]

You also happen to be one of the biggest "fanboys" of Reggie Smith.  You've been raving about him since the offseason. 

Are you making an objective observation or rationalizing a previously established opinion that Reggie is going to be the best new player on the team?

I did go on record as saying I felt Reggie would be the biggest surprise out of this year's recruiting class - true.  But truthfully, I am making an objective observation...it just seems a lot of people really jumped on the Junior bandwagon yesterday, when in reality..he didn't really do a whole lot...as pointed out by BallBoy.  I watched the game streaming and then again this AM..2 times..and didn't really see the reason people were so hign on Junior.

Having said that - Buzz credited him after the game.  In my opinion, Junior showed a lot more playmaking skills in the Prarie View game..where he created several nice looks for Davante.

[chren21]

Is there anyway to see the replay online or are you re-watching it via DVR?

[BallBoy]

Is there anyway to see the replay online or are you re-watching it via DVR?

You can see a consolidated review of all of the scoring plays here

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/111410aaa.html

[chren21]

You can see a consolidated review of all of the scoring plays here

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/111410aaa.html

Thanks, I saw that.  I was hoping to find a complete replay so I could work on my coaching/analysis skills.

[martyconlonontherun]

Fair enough. I just don't get the impression that Buzz is the type of coach who gives praise simply to boost a player's confidence.

Not saying I believe it. but it doesn't just have to be confidence. It could be showing support for your players by not going public with short comings.