Insight into how Recruiting Works..Nowadays..

[ChicosBailBonds]

In that case how did IU manage to get off almost scott free? Somehow when I think of something so horrid it takes 5-10 years to dig out from I'm thinking something that gets a little more than a slap on the wrist from the gendarmes. Also seems odd to me that the NCAA would hold back some of IU's violations from the public.

I think IU could have been hit harder, if that's what you're asking.  But aside from the penalty aspect, there are a plethora of embarrassing stories (not against NCAA rules) that were going with players, etc....that's what I mean by cleaning up an absolute cesspool.

[NersEllenson]

They were put on 3 years probation and most of the players left BEFORE the NCAA decided not to put them on the post season ban, effectively a ban by defacto summary.  The NCAA's decision was released on November 25th, long long long after school had started and players had left because the assumption was the NCAA was going to put them on the ban.  Furthermore, no one knew if it was going to be a 1 year, 2 year, 3 year ban (no one expected no ban on the postseason)....not knowing did as much damage as anything.  The mere idea of having it hang over their head that it was going to happen did the job and cratered the program. Don't believe me, why don't you ask their transfers and kids that were being recruited.  That's reality, you can continue to live in your hateland and pretend to know what you're talking about, but you simply don't....not on this subject.  I'm sorry, you simply have no clue what you are talking about on this subject.  Your emotional hatred blinds you to common sense and facts of the situation.


Just a few examples for you from recruits after it was learned of the NCAA findings but BEFORE the announcement that no ban would happen....about 6 months before.  Comments from transfers during the Summer ( a few months later) also exist that talk of the same thing...the uncertainty of the punishment and the decision to stay was not worth the risk of waiting to find out the severity.

Whether Ebanks attends is part of the uncertainty surrounding Indiana after Wednesday's allegations of "major" recruiting violations. Among the possible penalties is a postseason ban, which could devastate recruiting.

If IU is banned from the NCAA tournament, current high school juniors who made non-binding oral commitments to IU or are considering playing for IU could decide to go elsewhere. Even the four seniors who signed a binding letter of intent in November could ask to be released.

"I'm really concerned," said Stephan Van Treese, the state's top-ranked junior and one of the nationally ranked players in his class considering Indiana.

"If they have violations that they can't go to the tournament, why would I want to go there? The main thing I want to do when I go to college is play in the tournament. I think a lot of players feel the same way. A lot of people won't want to go there if they can't go to the postseason."

"I think it's tough to convince a top-level prospect who has other options to go to a school where there's a good chance you won't get to participate in the postseason," said Jerry Meyer, national recruiting analyst for Rivals.com.

"Rival recruiters would have a field day going in and talking not about only sanctions and postseason bans, but the coach's job security and, 'Do you want to go to a program that functions that way?,' and pointing out past histories," Bob Gibbons said.




Yes Ners, please tell me how IU was "merely" slapped.  You have no f'ing clue what you are talking about or the impact on the program leading up to the actual penalty phase.  NONE...ZERO CLUE.  God help us if MU is ever put in that situation where we wait 6 months DURING recruiting season for the governing body of the sport to decide if there is a penalty, what it is and how severe it will be.  Just imagine what that uncertainty would do and the decimating affect it would have on recruiting.   Please, grab a clue!

I find it very funny that you tell me I need to get a clue..when just 3 months ago you were posting HERE that IU did in fact receive a post season ban as part of their punishment!!  Hilarious..yet..after being corrected by me..you now throw all of the above facts at me..and claim how informed you are.  Percious Chicos.  Precious..as you like to say.  Like I said..I don't ahve anything against Tom Crean...I just with he'd fail..so you would shut up.  Let it go buddy..he's gone

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners, it was a poor choice of words and an error on my part.  Because IU had a cloud over their head 8+ months waiting for the NCAA to decide what to do from a punishment standpoint, they got a postseason ban and THEN SOME.

No one knew if it would be 1, 2, 3 years....NO ONE thought it would be zero.  The effect on recruiting and transfers was devastating and that's what you continue to miss, thus the need for a clue.  You can't sit there with a straight face and ignore what all the recruits said, what all the transfers said, and the reality of having this huge punishment cloud hanging over the program.  I'm sorry, you just can't do it.  Instead, you throw out inane comments like they got slapped on the hand.  Problem is, before they were "slapped on the hand" they were in such limbo it drove every player off the team and killed 2 recruiting classes.  THIS CANNOT BE DENIED yet you completely ignore it.

I can't take you seriously when you don't have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge that fact.  If MU was in the same situation where we got busted for something and the NCAA waited 8+ months to announce what the penalties would be (during the recruiting season, mind you), it would destroy this program for several years.  That's the reality.  This is why it is so different than the ridiculous comparisons you make.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, it was a poor choice of words and an error on my part.  Because IU had a cloud over their head 8+ months waiting for the NCAA to decide what to do from a punishment standpoint, they got a postseason ban and THEN SOME.

No one knew if it would be 1, 2, 3 years....NO ONE thought it would be zero.  The effect on recruiting and transfers was devastating and that's what you continue to miss, thus the need for a clue.  You can't sit there with a straight face and ignore what all the recruits said, what all the transfers said, and the reality of having this huge punishment cloud hanging over the program.  I'm sorry, you just can't do it.  Instead, you throw out inane comments like they got slapped on the hand.  Problem is, before they were "slapped on the hand" they were in such limbo it drove every player off the team and killed 2 recruiting classes.  THIS CANNOT BE DENIED yet you completely ignore it.

I can't take you seriously when you don't have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge that fact.  If MU was in the same situation where we got busted for something and the NCAA waited 8+ months to announce what the penalties would be (during the recruiting season, mind you), it would destroy this program for several years.  That's the reality.  This is why it is so different than the ridiculous comparisons you make.

Chicos - Sorry for the delayed reply - I just got back from Intellectual Integrity school..and had a hard time getting a seat in class, because they siad another student by the name of ChicosBailBonds was monopolizing all of the professors time. 

I DO understand that having looming infractions can cause challenges with regard to recruiting, however, Crean's best recruiting class thus far has been his first..the kids who entered in 2009.  2010 was a complete disaster...both of which occured after the fate of the NCAA infractions was known.

[dennycrane]

Some chatter recently on the success of recruiting under Tom Crean at Indiana lately.  This article illustrates just what is going on..it is borderline sleazy...but...apparently within the rules..but..ahem..it does make me squirm:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5750525

From the article:

The Hoosiers ties with Indiana Elite run in the family. Adams is the coach of the squad and his son Drew is a former Elite coach and current video coordinator under Crean. Mike Barnett is on the board of directors for Indiana Elite and his son Kory is a walk-on forward for the Hoosiers. Remember that Bloomington Red team that fed Knight's IU program? Well, one of the coaches was Criss Beyers who is a board member for the Indiana Elite squad. Bob Pryor, the former head coach of Bloomington Red, skippers one of Indiana Elite's younger teams.

Ironic that you had no problem with MU's association with a sleazy aau program like Mac Irvin but this really bothers you.

[NersEllenson]

Ironic that you had no problem with MU's association with a sleazy aau program like Mac Irvin but this really bothers you.

Well jack ass....when Buzz hires 2 guys associated with Mac Irvine aau program...then your point might have some merit..but until then this is just another idiotic post, of which u have a long history.  Par for your course.

[brewcity77]

Ironic that you had no problem with MU's association with a sleazy aau program like Mac Irvin but this really bothers you.

Oh go away, Badger troll. You complain about Marquette trying to make connections with Mac Irvin yet make no mention of UW's own sleazy connections with Rising Stars? Seriously, stop wasting our time with your trolling drivel.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Ironic that you had no problem with MU's association with a sleazy aau program like Mac Irvin but this really bothers you.

Crean must have figured out the AAU connection thing watching Bo.  Shall we remind you, Bo signed Marshall when he was with Irvin no matter how you try to cloud that one....also had Shaw in for a visit. 

And why are you here again?  Oh, I forgot, the signing date is nearing...a little worried that Buzz is making in-roads at Bo's storage locker at St. John's? 

[avid1010]

And why are you here again?  Oh, I forgot, the signing date is nearing...a little worried that Buzz is making in-roads at Bo's storage locker at St. John's? 

Well played.

[dennycrane]

Well jack ass....when Buzz hires 2 guys associated with Mac Irvine aau program...then your point might have some merit..but until then this is just another idiotic post, of which u have a long history.  Par for your course.

Irvin's make more not being on any one's official payroll.

It must go right over your head how foolish you look accusing a former coach of being involved in questionable recruiting activities. It must be the water in Indiana that has recently clouded his moral compass.

[dennycrane]

Crean must have figured out the AAU connection thing watching Bo.  Shall we remind you, Bo signed Marshall when he was with Irvin no matter how you try to cloud that one....also had Shaw in for a visit. 

And why are you here again?  Oh, I forgot, the signing date is nearing...a little worried that Buzz is making in-roads at Bo's storage locker at St. John's? 

The Irvin's who were quoted in the Chicago paper that Marshall was not committed until he was signed after he gave a verbal? The Irvin's who were pushing MU to Shaw while Shaw's family wanted him to go somewhere else?

Defend the Irvins if you want but it won't end up well.

[NersEllenson]

Irvin's make more not being on any one's official payroll.

It must go right over your head how foolish you look accusing a former coach of being involved in questionable recruiting activities. It must be the water in Indiana that has recently clouded his moral compass.

The only moral compass around here who's is clouded is yours...anyone who resorts to posting on a rivals message board..inflammatory garbage...pretty much says everything about your character Denny.

[brewcity77]

Irvin's make more not being on any one's official payroll.

It must go right over your head how foolish you look accusing a former coach of being involved in questionable recruiting activities. It must be the water in Indiana that has recently clouded his moral compass.

Go away, troll.

[tower912]

Were you this outspoken when Bo signed Marshall?   If so, continue your trolling, if not......

[Dr. Blackheart]

Defend the Irvins if you want but it won't end up well.

The Irvins can defend for themselves...I was just pointing out their Wisconsin connections that you seem to be in denial about.  Like this back in time:

"According to Illinois Prep Bulls-Eye, Shaw received an offer from Bo Ryan after UW's win over Northestern on Sunday. Howard Moore had attended the De La Salle-Simeon game the night before."

Or like this when Howard Moore was named UIC coach:

''It's great for UIC,'' Mac Irvin Fire club-basketball coach Mike Irvin said. ''Howard is a Chicago guy -- he's had success in both the city and suburbs. He definitely has our support at the Fire program. It's a long time coming and much deserved.''

A lot of the Fire kids seem to end up in the B-10....but now that Moore relocated from Madison it seems like the UW-Irvin connection is continuing with Moore now at UIC:

"Brown, a Morgan Park senior, orally committed to new UIC coach Howard Moore today, according to Morgan Park coach Nick Irvin."

Again, why are you here?  Whisper, whisper....

[dennycrane]

The only moral compass around here who's is clouded is yours...anyone who resorts to posting on a rivals message board..inflammatory garbage...pretty much says everything about your character Denny.

Inflammatory? I was pointing out the irony between your two positions. I guess it hit a nerve.

[dennycrane]

The Irvins can defend for themselves...I was just pointing out their Wisconsin connections that you seem to be in denial about.  Like this back in time:

"According to Illinois Prep Bulls-Eye, Shaw received an offer from Bo Ryan after UW's win over Northestern on Sunday. Howard Moore had attended the De La Salle-Simeon game the night before."

Or like this when Howard Moore was named UIC coach:

''It's great for UIC,'' Mac Irvin Fire club-basketball coach Mike Irvin said. ''Howard is a Chicago guy -- he's had success in both the city and suburbs. He definitely has our support at the Fire program. It's a long time coming and much deserved.''

A lot of the Fire kids seem to end up in the B-10....but now that Moore relocated from Madison it seems like the UW-Irvin connection is continuing with Moore now at UIC:

"Brown, a Morgan Park senior, orally committed to new UIC coach Howard Moore today, according to Morgan Park coach Nick Irvin."

Again, why are you here?  Whisper, whisper....

All that writing and yet it does not address the issue at all. This has nothing to do with UW, Illinois or any other school.


The problem is that schools like UW and Illinois landed Fire players despite the Irvins and not because of their help. See Irvin's comments after Marshall committed to the UW. Irvin proclaiming that he was not really committed despite what marshall and his family said.

Back to the original point. It is ironic that some posters who defended a program like the Fire now attack another program that is no worse and probably less dirty.

[tower912]

I cannot speak as to whether or not they are dirty.  Interestingly, though, you say that Irvin being ticked when Marshall went to UW is evidence you guys are clean.   You are using the fact that Irvin favored MU for Shaw, A GUY WE DIDN'T GET, as evidence we are dirty.    Dude.....    We also lost out on Dawson(?), a guy that the Sparty board and the bucky board said that Buzz would land because he would make deals with the handler.    And Miller/Bello.     And Faust.     So, either Buzz is the most incompetent cheater in the world, or your premise that he is dirty is a bunch of peepeekahkah.

[Dr. Blackheart]

All that writing and yet it does not address the issue at all. This has nothing to do with UW, Illinois or any other school.


The problem is that schools like UW and Illinois landed Fire players despite the Irvins and not because of their help. See Irvin's comments after Marshall committed to the UW. Irvin proclaiming that he was not really committed despite what marshall and his family said.

Back to the original point. It is ironic that some posters who defended a program like the Fire now attack another program that is no worse and probably less dirty.

Your stance is laughable...how is that for keeping it simple?  Moore was/is tight with the Irvins--even getting public kudos and recruits/visits at both UW and UIC.  Is it really that hard for you to see that Bo plays here too along with his B10 friends? 

As to defense, you keep bringing in MU and the Irvins...and I keep bringing up UW and the Irvins.  As to the Irvins prosecution, I will leave that up to the internet lawyers such as yourself.  Just know you may need to take the Fifth as Bucky and their B10 Buddies play here too (see Thompson, Shaw for 2011 for starters...)

[Lennys Tap]

I cannot speak as to whether or not they are dirty.  Interestingly, though, you say that Irvin being ticked when Marshall went to UW is evidence you guys are clean.   You are using the fact that Irvin favored MU for Shaw, A GUY WE DIDN'T GET, as evidence we are dirty.    Dude.....    We also lost out on Dawson(?), a guy that the Sparty board and the bucky board said that Buzz would land because he would make deals with the handler.    And Miller/Bello.     And Faust.     So, either Buzz is the most incompetent cheater in the world, or your premise that he is dirty is a bunch of peepeekahkah.

This.

Buzz has shown he'll go after the top talent and not give in to anyone. This makes the fans and coaches of the top midwestern programs (MSU, Illinois, IU, etc) uncomfortable and quick to point fingers and start rumors (MU is cheating, Buzz will be leaving, etc). Expect most of this BS to come out of UW. We're on the rise, they're on the decline. Rather than face those facts they'll cry "foul". As predictable as it is pathetic.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny, how do you think UW is on the "decline"?

[GGGG]

Yeah...that one raised my eyebrows as well.  They finished the year 13-5 in the B10, and the #16 team in the country.  A year after they finished 10-8.

[NersEllenson]

Inflammatory? I was pointing out the irony between your two positions. I guess it hit a nerve.

Will you please illustrate the irony between my two positions?  This ought to be good.  In addition, do you acknowledge that UW and Bo Ryan recruit kids who play AAU?

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, how do you think UW is on the "decline"?

I think Wisky is like a stock that has had a great run but now looks "toppy". Their "guidance" going forward is questionable due to a significant drop off in recruiting the past two years. Add an aging executive (Bo) to the equation and I see the Badgers' next 5 -10 years as challenging. Instead of being in the top 3 or 4 and challenging for titles I see them more in the middle of the pack and on the bubble.

I know there's a popular myth that Bo gets it done without much talent, but the reality is that his rosters have been full of 4*, top 100 players (and even one 5*). As he keeps recruiting 3*s, expect results to suffer.