What just happened?

[wildbill sb]

Poor judgment by university leadership at MU these days certainly isn't limited to the men's basketball program.

[rocky_warrior]

Gentlemen:  Phillycoach is exactly who he says he is.

Since there have been several questions, I wanted to reiterate this. I don't usually like to "out" people from their alias, but Phillycoach has told you exactly who he is.

[StillAWarrior]

The marvelous part of this entire thread is that I have comrades in the fight against teal. I used to feel so alone. I hated teal, but was so scared to come out and say it. Now I feel empowered. I am kicking teal to curb. Teal is pathetic.

You've got more supporters than you think.  I also don't use smileys.

In other news, I am proud to say that I have recently employed magenta as my color of choice in demonstrating sarcasm.

Should this be magenta?  [No winking smiley here!]

[JPapi2525]

I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.

At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?

Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.

It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.

[mug644]

As a huge Buzz fan and MU season ticket holder for over 20 years I will wait until the official word comes and we get the other side of this story.  For the moment though, this sure sounds disappointing.  I don't really know Buzz but I have met him a few times and listened to him talk many times about the way he treats people.  From everything I have heard from Coach Buzz this would seem to be totally out of character.  If it turns out that we really burned this kid just to get another player, I will actually be a bit heartbroken.

I agree with virtually all of this. Regardless of how it all really happened, Buzz comes off looking like he's not as committed to the young men as young men as he talks about. He's done a great job of presenting success in basketball as his number two priority at MU, well after developing true men. I still have faith in what he does, how he approaches life and the impact he has/will have on Marquette, but I can't deny that with the info out there so far, he's gone down a notch in how I perceive him.

As I sit here, the only scenario that I'll feel comfortable with is that MU didn't push Newbill to submit his application because the AD always felt that prep school was going to be the way to go, and that Newbill tried but was unable to change their minds. Still, the timing of Wilson's signing and Newbill's departure combine to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[TJ]

I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.

At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?

Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.

It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.

So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids?  Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.

Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school.  If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given.  Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him.  Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.

If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what.  It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.

[StillAWarrior]

So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids?  Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.

Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school.  If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given.  Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him.  Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.

If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what.  It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.

The only thing I would add is that many of these kids aren't 19.  Many seniors -- especially early in their senior year -- are 17.  When we're talking about juniors, obviously they will be even younger.

[TJ]

I think we're looking way to deep into this thing.

At the end of the day, who would you rather have on your roster, Jamil Wilson or DJ Newbill?

Yes Newbill was a good hardworking kid, but in the end, doesn't talent really matter? It's about putting out that roster on opening day that really counts, because in reality, this is Buzz's job, and if he doesn't put out a winning team day in and day out, he's out of here.

It's unfortunate to see players getting "ran out", but it happens all of the time in D1 basketball.

Honestly, if the question really is a simple keep DJ or buzzcut him without any other reason but to make room for Wilson I would rather have DJ on the roster.  He made a commitment to the team/school/coach who in turn "supposedly" made a commitment back to him.  If there is no other reason than talent level of the two people involved, that commitment should be honored.  Sorry you used up all your scholarships coach, but you did and you have to live with that.

We don't know 100% of the story, and probably never will, but that's my answer to the simple hypothetical presented.


*** I understand that scholarships are 1 year renewable, and therefore the same answer might not apply if you were to replace DJ in the example with a returning player.  But if you're going to commit to giving a scholarship and have a kid sign a LOI, then you should at least honor it for that first year.

[JPapi2525]

So you believe that institutions are under no obligation - moral, legal or otherwise - to honor the commitments they make to 19 year old kids?  Of course, 19 year old kids should be held to a higher standard, so their part of the agreement is binding.

Here's the situation... player A is believed to be at talent level X and commits to an institution of that level before his senior year of high school.  If it turns out that maybe he was not really level X, but level X-1, the school can dump him with no other reason given.  Now, if he ends up showing that he's really at level X+1, he's stuck and has to honor his LOI regardless of what other options are now available to him.  Obviously there are situations where the school waives the LOI, but they are under no obligation to do so.

If I were advising a talented recruit, I would tell him to verbal, but never sign no matter what.  It seems to provide no benefit whatsoever to the recruit.

Do I think it is wrong to lowball someone, and take back an agreement once made? Of course! Did you want Newbill on the team? Absolutely.

But the fact of the matter is that taking back scholarships is part of the game when it comes to recruiting, and at the end of the day, Buzz and the MU staff is doing what is best for the program. I'm sure Buzz Williams will do everything in his power to help DJ Newbill become successful because that is the type of person Buzz is, but he is also a Division 1 basketball coach who has to make tough decisions for the betterment of the program.

According to a recent IWB post, DJ Newbill knew that he was going to be outside of the bubble since he wanted to commit to MU, the staff fully informed him that they are looking at other options. Jamil Wilson is now that option, leaving Newbill out of the picture unfortunately.

I hope DJ finds a good fit for him, and I wish him the best in the future.

[StillAWarrior]

Do I think it is wrong to lowball someone, and take back an agreement once made? Of course! Did you want Newbill on the team? Absolutely.

But the fact of the matter is that taking back scholarships is part of the game when it comes to recruiting, and at the end of the day, Buzz and the MU staff is doing what is best for the program. I'm sure Buzz Williams will do everything in his power to help DJ Newbill become successful because that is the type of person Buzz is, but he is also a Division 1 basketball coach who has to make tough decisions for the betterment of the program.

According to a recent IWB post, DJ Newbill knew that he was going to be outside of the bubble since he wanted to commit to MU, the staff fully informed him that they are looking at other options. Jamil Wilson is now that option, leaving Newbill out of the picture unfortunately.

I hope DJ finds a good fit for him, and I wish him the best in the future.

I'm curious:  would you have a problem with this if there had never been any indication from MU that DJ was "outside of the bubble?"  Your second paragraph could be construed to suggest that you wouldn't, but the inclusion of your third paragraph suggests that maybe you would.  I think that this makes all the difference in the world.

[wyoMUfan]

Guys, you are missing the most important piece of info from Rosiaks blog this morning. Buzz is looking for another walk on, now how the hell is Frozena ever gonna see the court w/ some hot shot from appleton xavier breathing down his neck at the end of the bench. Nuts

[JPapi2525]

I'm curious:  would you have a problem with this if there had never been any indication from MU that DJ was "outside of the bubble?"  Your second paragraph could be construed to suggest that you wouldn't, but the inclusion of your third paragraph suggests that maybe you would.  I think that this makes all the difference in the world.

No I would not have a problem with this move because it is a part of the recruiting process. Although I'm upset with the fact the DJ won't be playing for Marquette this year, it was something that had to be done in Buzz's eyes. Players should know all the possible consequences before making their decision. The reason I added the IWB post reference is because DJ knew there was a possibility he could be gone when he signed his LOI.

[StillAWarrior]

No I would not have a problem with this move because it is a part of the recruiting process. Although I'm upset with the fact the DJ won't be playing for Marquette this year, it was something that had to be done in Buzz's eyes. Players should know all the possible consequences before making their decision. The reason I added the IWB post reference is because DJ knew there was a possibility he could be gone when he signed his LOI.

I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences.  I don't think that this is acceptable.  Apparently you do.  We'll agree to disagree.

[Ready2Fly]

I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences.  I don't think that this is acceptable.  Apparently you do.  We'll agree to disagree.

Our commitment was contingent from the get-go.  What is so hard to understand about that?

[wyoMUfan]

It will be easier to shoulder the burden of conscience when a 21 year old sophomore Jamil Wilson is dominating jerks in 2011-2012

[JPapi2525]

I just think it's unfortunate that "we won't honor our commitment to you" is one of the possible consequences.  I don't think that this is acceptable.  Apparently you do.  We'll agree to disagree.

I do agree with you that it is unfortunate, especially for the players and their families. But at the end of the day, it is about winning ball games, and we are more likely to do that will Jamil on the roster opposed to DJ in this certain situation. Like I mentioned before, I wish the best for DJ and his family.

[JPapi2525]

It will be easier to shoulder the burden of conscience when a 21 year old sophomore Jamil Wilson is dominating jerks in 2011-2012

Agreed. I actually played against Jamil in a summer league game a few years back. I can safely say, I have been posterized by Jamil Wilson.... and it was awesome!

[wyoMUfan]

Agreed. I actually played against Jamil in a summer league game a few years back. I can safely say, I have been posterized by Jamil Wilson.... and it was awesome!

Nothing like getting posterized at the wisc lutheran gym to really make you enjoy your summer vacation. right...

[StillAWarrior]

Our commitment was contingent from the get-go.  What is so hard to understand about that?

That's easy to understand and as I've said repeatedly, I don't have a problem with that.

I had asked Jpapi2525 if he would have a problem with pulling the scholarship even if MU had not been up front about the fact that Newbill was outside the bubble (i.e., the commitment was contingent).  I understood JPapi2525 to be saying that he doesn't have a problem with pulling a scholarship offer even if the commitment is not contingent because "it is a part of the recruiting process."  I have a problem with that.  (If I misunderstood his position, I apologize, but it seems clear).