MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2020, 08:34:49 PM

Title: Move Koby off ball
Post by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2020, 08:34:49 PM
Please stop with Koby at PG.

Thanks.

*Edited title
Title: Re: #freeSy
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2020, 08:37:24 PM
Nm
Title: Re: #freeSy
Post by: Shooter McGavin on February 26, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Agreed.  At this point Koby is not confident at all on offense.
Title: Re: #freeSy
Post by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2020, 08:38:34 PM
Don't particularly need Sy at PG, I suppose.

Just get Koby off the ball. Make him like Sacar (drive/kick) or Cain/Bailey (corner 3 guys)
Title: Re: #freeSy
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 26, 2020, 08:39:24 PM
I like your thinking, but Sy had a horrible live-play TO. Needs to learn to bounce pass sometimes.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: BM1090 on February 26, 2020, 08:39:57 PM
Sy is just so bad defensively. If he can make some leaps this offseason he should get major minutes.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: jesmu84 on February 26, 2020, 09:15:49 PM
The ball stops in his hands so much. It's actually incredible
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: wadesworld on February 26, 2020, 09:24:14 PM
I kind of like what Sacar does initiating the offense the few times both Markus and Koby have been in foul trouble together this year.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: MUeng on February 26, 2020, 09:29:30 PM
Koby is having a really bad night. Bound to happen since everyone else is playing so well.  He seems to lack confidence at this point.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Shooter McGavin on February 26, 2020, 09:34:13 PM
I kind of like what Sacar does initiating the offense the few times both Markus and Koby have been in foul trouble together this year.

Agreed.  Sacar get the inbounds on the press break is much better than Kobe.  He seems to make better decisions than Kobe.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: DUNKS45 on February 26, 2020, 09:42:54 PM
Koby waits too long to pass on the press, need some serious work. However it's a much needed victory.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on February 26, 2020, 09:48:53 PM
Our press break was atrocious tonight. I’d expect to see a lot of press from the Hall Saturday.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 26, 2020, 09:52:39 PM
Our press break was atrocious tonight. I’d expect to see a lot of press from the Hall Saturday.

Actually, a lot of easy shots out of the press break today.  I've mentioned this before, because it's a slow developing break (very deliberate), but Marquette has been VERY successful breaking the press.  All year.

I'd argue, dumb for a short bench team to use the press full court...
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 26, 2020, 10:04:39 PM
Koby has been a major disappointment, especially after a good game or three earlier.
He needs pine time. The question is, then what? Markus at point (making his scoring job harder?), Greg?, Samir? All the alternatives have downsides but none seem to be as bad as watching Koby lately. Perhaps he could reverse the trend, but time is short.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 26, 2020, 10:21:09 PM
Wojo finally got Koby off the ball. He simply could not anticipate the trap and continuously got hung up in it.
painful to watch him against the press
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: BCHoopster on February 26, 2020, 10:29:14 PM
He really has regressed, not much of a shooter, not much a passer, not quick enough. Do not fault any kid from going from a mid- major to a high major program, he just is not a point guard.  Better than Chartonney but not much better, need to find help for next year.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Jockey on February 26, 2020, 10:59:42 PM
Koby has been a very good defender and rebounder this season, but... he is my least favorite player on the offensive end since Derrick.

I don't like it when the ball is in his hands. I don't like it when he shoots. I don't like it when he drives to the hoop.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 26, 2020, 11:03:20 PM
Please stop with Koby at PG.

Thanks.

Plus Tax.


*Edited title
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 26, 2020, 11:06:05 PM
Koby is having a really bad night. Bound to happen since everyone else is playing so well.  He seems to lack confidence at this point.
When he has he had a good one minus pu n xu?  2 good short bursts 20 n 10 mins, the rest if the season trainwreck
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: PointWarrior on February 26, 2020, 11:18:39 PM
Koby was god awful tonight. And tonight is not an anomaly. 
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: BM1090 on February 26, 2020, 11:18:57 PM
When he has he had a good one minus pu n xu?  2 good short bursts 20 n 10 mins, the rest if the season trainwreck

Was good in both Butler games and at UW as well. Other than that it's been pretty rough.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2020, 12:00:15 AM
Koby is better than he's shown and he usually makes up for his offensive mistakes with his defense and rebounding. Not tonight.

He's one of those players that plays better when he's not thinking. Not sure he is a match for Wojo's offensive system but the talent is there. He seems to let things get under his skin and it throws off his whole game. For example, one of his turnovers was a missed shove by the refs. Defender clearly put two hands on him and pushed, automatic foul but refs just didn't see it. Those things happen and players need to let them go, not sure Koby is wired that way. Wojo needs to find a way to get Koby to channel that during the offseason.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: StillWarriors on February 27, 2020, 06:21:07 AM
Wojo finally got Koby off the ball. He simply could not anticipate the trap and continuously got hung up in it.
painful to watch him against the press

That really was hard to understand. His handle was extremely loose last night too. The other guys, particularly Sacar and Markus did a good job of getting rid of it before the trap most of the time aside from when we inbounded it into the corners along the baseline, which was also hard to understand because it is so easy to trap there. Would like to see us make entry pass sometimes a little further up court to relieve pressure and utilize Bailey’s height and smarts with the ball against the press like we did with Sam. We did it at times and he has a good knack for looking up court and moving the ball quickly.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: StillWarriors on February 27, 2020, 06:26:36 AM
Koby is better than he's shown and he usually makes up for his offensive mistakes with his defense and rebounding. Not tonight.

He's one of those players that plays better when he's not thinking. Not sure he is a match for Wojo's offensive system but the talent is there. He seems to let things get under his skin and it throws off his whole game. For example, one of his turnovers was a missed shove by the refs. Defender clearly put two hands on him and pushed, automatic foul but refs just didn't see it. Those things happen and players need to let them go, not sure Koby is wired that way. Wojo needs to find a way to get Koby to channel that during the offseason.

He’s definitely wired very tight. He had a strange gesture last night after getting pressured and trapped at half court where he clenched up both arms towards either Markus for not coming up more to help when he was trapped or the bench. That is a bad feeling being trapped repeatedly and feeling left on an island but avoiding the trap in the first place is the key.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: CTWarrior on February 27, 2020, 08:21:03 AM
He really has regressed, not much of a shooter, not much a passer, not quick enough. Do not fault any kid from going from a mid- major to a high major program, he just is not a point guard.  Better than Chartonney but not much better, need to find help for next year.

He's a different level better than Chartouney, but I agree he has not been good.  Koby's got talent, size and enough athleticism, it is very frustrating to watch him struggle like this.  I really think there is an excellent player in there somewhere.  Good Koby vs bad Koby may very well be the difference for us finishing strong or not.  Symir has promise, but I don't think that 25 minutes of him at this point is a recipe for success.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2020, 08:27:00 AM
Symir does one thing well.  Makes decisive passes so the ball moves when he's on the floor.  But he turns it over too much, and before yesterday hadn't made a basket in a month.  Furthermore he struggles on defense, though is getting better.

At this point Wojo isn't going to change things.  And that's fine.  But I think Symir is going to be good.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: MU82 on February 27, 2020, 09:41:21 AM
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: MUfan12 on February 27, 2020, 09:44:39 AM
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.

Some guys you can trust to play their way out of a funk. Koby get demonstrative and lets it get in his head.

There were a few times last night where I thought Wojo should have taken him out, if only for a quick mental reset.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 27, 2020, 09:54:58 AM
Koby is a tough one to figure out.  I don't really want to bad mouth him, but I think its time he plays a little less. 
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: BCHoopster on February 27, 2020, 10:04:22 AM
It will be very interesting when they play St. Johns as they press the whole game.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Skatastrophy on February 27, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
I've been trying to stay upbeat about Koby, a good defender who helped us greatly on offense in a few games. But when he struggles, he really struggles ... and last night was tough to watch.

+1

He has all the skills. I think he just needs to work on his mental game. Once he gets tilted, which is easy to see, he starts making mistakes.

Edit: To add to this, when Koby gets tilted he has a very bad habit of lighting up his teammates. He needs to figure out how to "walk away" when he gets frustrated before he gets the rest of the team on tilt, too.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Marcus92 on February 27, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Marcus92 on February 27, 2020, 04:59:00 PM
Also consider: What if Koby's fiery outbursts on the court turn out to be a positive for this team instead of a negative? It seems clear he's a player who holds himself and his teammates to high standards. His visible frustration shows that he expects better. Can he harness that emotion to help Marquette elevate its play?
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Loose Cannon on February 27, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
l
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on February 28, 2020, 07:58:19 AM
Koby's a veteran who should be playing better. Maybe the BE is too tough for him. Sy is a smooth passer and excellent shooter who will be a great leader at point guard next year.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: MU82 on February 28, 2020, 08:15:19 AM
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.

I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: jesmu84 on February 28, 2020, 08:23:40 AM
I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.

Perhaps next year he'll slide over to the Sacar role - off ball, defense, slashing, 3s
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on February 28, 2020, 08:25:28 AM
Swap Koby and Sacar, I actually like when Sacar runs the point—can slash, shoot, is big, senior, leader.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Litehouse on February 28, 2020, 08:35:26 AM
Sacar is an efficient dribbler, he only dribbles to get from point A to point B.  Koby just does all kinds of unnecessary dribbling without moving, which leads to his turnovers and bogs down the offense.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: jsglow on February 28, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
Also consider: What if Koby's fiery outbursts on the court turn out to be a positive for this team instead of a negative? It seems clear he's a player who holds himself and his teammates to high standards. His visible frustration shows that he expects better. Can he harness that emotion to help Marquette elevate its play?

I'm going with 'this'.  I remember the NMD game.  That's when Koby did the faux flop thing and Wojo went apesh*t on him quickly getting him to the bench.  He refocused and contributed significantly.  This is in his head.  His maturity and willingness to be coached over the summer will determine his role next year.  The talent is there.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: franklinjerry on February 29, 2020, 07:52:57 AM
One of the rare topics we all seem to agree. I've thought of swapping Sacar and Koby as well. Sacar does not try to speed-up when breaking the press. He sees the floor much better and dribbles with a purpose unlike Koby.

Samir is the only viable PG option on the returning or incoming roster for next season. While I disagree that he's a great shooter, he gives you hope for ball distribution. Greg isn't the answer. At best I see Koby playing Sacars' role next year, with less minutes. He does defend and rebound and should be on the floor at the end of games due to his free throw ability.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: WarriorFan on February 29, 2020, 07:59:16 AM
Koby has done a heck of a job on defense.  He's not shooting well and he's had one bad game in the PG role.  Moving him off the ball is good as a change up for a few minutes but he's the PG, and he's got the size and strength and skill to do it just fine. 

Over-reacting after one bad game is not a good idea. 
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: franklinjerry on February 29, 2020, 08:52:15 AM
It has not been ONE bad game.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 29, 2020, 08:55:28 AM
Last night may not have been Koby's best performance. But he still played a big role in beating Georgetown by 21 points.

Only two players -- seniors Markus Howard and Sacar Anim -- spent more time on the court. This despite the fact that Koby didn't score a single point, and only took 3 shots in all.

To me, that suggests Wojo values Koby for more than just scoring.

• Excellent on-ball defense
• 2nd on the team in rebounds per game (5.2 rpg)
• 3rd on the team in defensive rebounding (17.0 DR% per KenPom)
• 1st on the team in assists per game (3.3 apg)
• 2nd on the team in assist rate (21.4 ARate)
• 2nd on the team in free throw rate (55.5 FTRate)

The comparison to Joseph Chartouny isn't worth discussing. Yes, I'd like to see Koby shoot more consistently and cut down on the turnovers. But even on an off night offensively, Koby is still one of the most important contributors to this team.

Ummmm koby was a +\- of a -9 in a game his team won by 21 points.  Which is remarkably hard to do!!  His teammates for the most part were all in +12 to +25 range
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 29, 2020, 08:59:02 AM
I appreciate all of this about Koby. Totally agree about comparisons with Cartoony - ridiculous. In addition to the positives you list above, I feel totally confident with Koby at the FT line when we're trying to protect a lead.

However, as the PG, he needs to take care of the ball better. Period. He does not have natural PG skills and probably shouldn't play the position -- I mean, what kind of PG drives into the middle of the lane and then abruptly stops, seemingly with absolutely no plan (and does this over and over again)? Unfortunately, he has proven to be a not very good shooter, so he's not ideal off the ball, either.

So it's an interesting conundrum for Wojo. Koby is one of our best defenders and has the other attributes you mentioned, but his negatives are glaring when Markus is being defended well and the others aren't hitting open shots.



You put him in sacars spot next year at the 3.  3rd ball handler occasional shooter n driver.  His playing time is dependent based on his effectiveness to winning but the ballhandling n decision making is reduced significantly

Im not suggesting doing anything of the sort this year.  Sacar is ok initiating offense occasionally but his handle n decision making is a bad if not worse than kobys, we jyst see it in smaller doses.  This year its not perfect but it is what it is, sy, koby, markus at the pg
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: BCHoopster on February 29, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
Hopefully there’s enough competition next year. That Koby either plays better or sees more pine time.  Do not see him playing SF next year as Garcia will play PF and Bailey, Cain or OSA at the SF.  I really believe that Mane is the key ingredient at guard next year, somebody with true quickness.
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 29, 2020, 11:41:34 AM
Koby has done a heck of a job on defense.  He's not shooting well and he's had one bad game in the PG role.  Moving him off the ball is good as a change up for a few minutes but he's the PG, and he's got the size and strength and skill to do it just fine. 

Over-reacting after one bad game is not a good idea.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6YglDndxKdCNw7q8/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: franklinjerry on February 29, 2020, 03:38:31 PM
Gosh his second bad game?
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 29, 2020, 06:20:10 PM
Glad to see they moved him to the bench today
Title: Re: Move Koby off ball
Post by: muwarrior97 on February 29, 2020, 07:50:32 PM
Move Koby to the pines