MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: #UnleashJayce on December 08, 2019, 09:30:57 AM

Title: Hot take
Post by: #UnleashJayce on December 08, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
Jayce Johnson is better then Theo and Ed. Should be starting instead of spelling them both.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: We R Final Four on December 08, 2019, 09:45:52 AM
I think so as well.
Better chance at getting the tip and could delay TJ’s first foul until under 16 potentially.
JJis a better rebounder than both TJ and EM.
I think the staff is easing him back in, I don’t think he’s 💯 yet.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: #UnleashJayce on December 08, 2019, 09:46:51 AM
Far better rebounder, also think he's a much better screener for Howard.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 08, 2019, 09:48:50 AM
Theo is still the best all around

All 3 struggle on offense.

Theo is more athletic and fluid down low.

Also, I figured it would be hard to ever see myself begging for Theo at the line over another player. But give me Theo shooting when we are in the bonus over Jayce any day of the week.

We need all 3. It was huge that we had 15/15 fouls left entering the second half last night.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: mu_hilltopper on December 08, 2019, 08:50:12 PM
Another vote for Jayce.    I'd say offensively and defensively, none of the three are materially better than the others. 

But Jayce .. has a knack for rebounding.   I'll take that for 28 mins per game.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: BallBoy on December 08, 2019, 09:00:30 PM
Another vote for Jayce.    I'd say offensively and defensively, none of the three are materially better than the others. 

But Jayce .. has a knack for rebounding.   I'll take that for 28 mins per game.
I will stick with Theo. More athletic and a better defender and Free throws.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: muguru on December 08, 2019, 09:02:59 PM
Jayce should be starting...one of the best rebounders in the country in his career. Theo fouls too much. Wojo might need to do with him what Buzz did with Davante..bring him off the bench to try to avoid the 2 early fouls.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 08, 2019, 10:08:27 PM
Jayce Johnson is better then Theo and Ed. Should be starting instead of spelling them both.

I’ll go with the coaches that see them all play every day.  He’s still coming off injury, may not be in full shape...maybe later they make that change. 

What would Johnny09 say about your hot take?
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: MU82 on December 08, 2019, 10:24:04 PM
Jayce should be starting...one of the best rebounders in the country in his career. Theo fouls too much. Wojo might need to do with him what Buzz did with Davante..bring him off the bench to try to avoid the 2 early fouls.

Theo was not plagued by 2 early fouls in our big game at K-State yesterday. Had an outstanding defensive game most of the night.

I expect little on offense, but I like all 3 of our centers when all are playing well on defense.

I see absolutely no reason for Wojo to change the rotation. He has had a very good feel of how to manage this position over the years.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Its DJOver on December 08, 2019, 10:47:35 PM
I'll agree with the OP only in the sense that when his knee is 100%, he probably has the best tip %.  I'll follow that up with starting no matta.  On any given day any one of them could be having a good game and deserve more minutes, it's up to Wojo to figure out who.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: WarriorFan on December 09, 2019, 12:31:46 AM
I like that Jayce tries to dunk everything.  Of course, Theo does too, but can't seem to get above the rim without a clear path and a few seconds to do it.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: 1SE on December 09, 2019, 04:23:21 AM
I don't think it really matters, we're going to get 15/15/10 (minutes) between them - I think about when those minutes fall really depends on match-ups and game situations.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: MarquetteDano on December 09, 2019, 06:51:27 AM
I don't think it really matters, we're going to get 15/15/10 (minutes) between them - I think about when those minutes fall really depends on match-ups and game situations.

Agreed. And the preseason idea of 2 bigs in the game at once will be extremely rare. Just cant afford to have two players out there who are not scoring threats.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: StillAWarrior on December 09, 2019, 09:55:45 AM
All in all, I'm happy with our three-headed center.  Would I like more offense?  Of course.  But I'm not really seeing that as an option.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: tower912 on December 09, 2019, 10:06:42 AM
It will work itself out and I am guessing Wojo will ride the hot hand that stays out of foul trouble.   A la Bailey and Cain. 
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: PorkysButthole on December 09, 2019, 11:40:24 PM
Jayce should be starting...one of the best rebounders in the country in his career. Theo fouls too much. Wojo might need to do with him what Buzz did with Davante..bring him off the bench to try to avoid the 2 early fouls.

Fair enough but Buzz was trying to preserve one of the team’s most prolific scorers for later.  If Porky remembers correctly DG averaged over double digits his last two years.  Preserving a great defender is equally important, but since this team doesn’t have a big man that can score consistently (Ed is probably the most capable offensively of our 3 bigs) Porky doesn’t understand why Eddie (who is no slouch on D) isn’t starting over both.  This team needs an inside threat desperately and it seems to Porky that Eddie is that guy.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: brewcity77 on December 10, 2019, 07:12:51 AM
Fair enough but Buzz was trying to preserve one of the team’s most prolific scorers for later.  If Porky remembers correctly DG averaged over double digits his last two years.  Preserving a great defender is equally important, but since this team doesn’t have a big man that can score consistently (Ed is probably the most capable offensively of our 3 bigs) Porky doesn’t understand why Eddie (who is no slouch on D) isn’t starting over both.  This team needs an inside threat desperately and it seems to Porky that Eddie is that guy.

To the first part, I think Gardner is being confused with Jae. Erik Williams started over Jae to prevent him from getting early fouls. Chris Otule started over Gardner because DG had a 2-inch vertical and starting Otule gave us a shot at winning the tip.

To the latter, Ed isn't going to win many tips and has been a complete offensive liability because he travels every time he gets the ball. Starting him considering his play this year would be nonsensical.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: TSmith34 on December 10, 2019, 07:58:24 AM
(Ed is probably the most capable offensively of our 3 bigs) Porky doesn’t understand why Eddie (who is no slouch on D) isn’t starting over both.  This team needs an inside threat desperately and it seems to Porky that Eddie is that guy.
Unfortunately, Ed's defense is at the very best spotty, and usually much worse than that.  He is by far the poorest defender of the three bigs.

The idea of playing two bigs always seemed a pipe dream to me.  Jayce is clearly only a 5 on both offense and defense.  Ed's defense hasn't been good at the 5, I see no way he could guard a mobile 4, and despite the reports that he hit a couple of face up jump shots in scrimmages I have yet to see him be effective offensively except at the rim, so there is no way he stretches the defense.  Theo is the most mobile of the bigs but do we want him picking up fouls away from the basket?  His best role is defending the rim, and asking him to play the 4 takes away from that strength.

In short, none of the three bigs can play the 4 IMO.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2019, 08:01:26 AM
Unless a match up dictates, i.e. the opponent playing two bigs at the same time and having success down low. 
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: pux90mex on December 10, 2019, 09:16:41 AM
The Theo Slander will not stand.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELb0npsX0AAIunv?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Coleman on December 10, 2019, 10:20:25 AM
Theo and Jayce have both been playing hurt. Neither are 100%. Hard to judge fairly as a result.

Both are solid bigs that bring value. I admit Theo has been a little below expectations thus far but I think his wrist is bothering him more than most know, and this is why he has not been able to go up strong.

Jayce has been a pleasant surprise on the boards.

We will need all three. I don't care who you start, we are going to need between 10-20 minutes each from Theo, Jayce and Ed pretty much every game. Foul trouble and day to day performance will dictate who who gets 10 and who gets 20.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on December 10, 2019, 10:30:09 AM
Theo and Jayce have both been playing hurt. Neither are 100%. Hard to judge fairly as a result.

Both are solid bigs that bring value. I admit Theo has been a little below expectations thus far but I think his wrist is bothering him more than most know, and this is why he has not been able to go up strong.

Jayce has been a pleasant surprise on the boards.

We will need all three. I don't care who you start, we are going to need between 10-20 minutes each from Theo, Jayce and Ed pretty much every game. Foul trouble and day to day performance will dictate who who gets 10 and who gets 20.
I didn't realize Theo was hurt.  When did that happen?
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: We R Final Four on December 10, 2019, 11:37:22 AM
I think minute placement does matter.
I see 3 advantages of starting JJ over TJ.
1. Win the tip.
2. 16 minutes left in the 1st half and Theo has 0 fouls.
3. Better chance to draw a foul on putback or an over the back.

I think #3 has the most potential to be impactful. Most teams don’t have a 3 headed #5. Most teams have a backup #5 and it’s often a big drop off from the starter. To get an early foul on a starting big can be a huge advantage to us.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Coleman on December 10, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
I didn't realize Theo was hurt.  When did that happen?

Don't know when it happened, but in Homer's Marquette Basketball Hour this past week, Wojo mentioned Theo's wrist has been bothering him all season and he is not 100%.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 10, 2019, 11:51:10 AM
The Theo Slander will not stand.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELb0npsX0AAIunv?format=jpg&name=large)

Thank you
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: bilsu on December 10, 2019, 12:32:07 PM
Thank you
Are Theo's numbers skewed by the fact that he starts both halves and thus is playing with the other four starters?
The others are often on the floor with other subs.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: pux90mex on December 10, 2019, 01:15:24 PM
Are Theo's numbers skewed by the fact that he starts both halves and thus is playing with the other four starters?
The others are often on the floor with other subs.

That's a good question, and the starting lineup by far has the most possessions together of any 5-man tandem, so that could be a factor. However, that also means they are facing opponent starters most often, and outside of Loyola MD, MU hasn't been a juggernaut to start any half.

Theo has played 77% of his 299 possessions with Markus on the floor, Ed 75% of his 204, and Jayce 68% of his 141. So I don't really think we can say that the personnel around Theo is much different than that of Ed and Jayce. (All are between 3% and 5% of possession played without Markus and Sacar.) 

Last thing, I still don't think people appreciate what a force Theo is defensively, even if he's not a good rebounder. Only 19% of shots come at the rim when he's on, vs. 23.6% for Ed and 25% for Jayce. More importantly, opponents shoot 44.7% at the rim with Theo, while shooting 55.8% for Ed and 53.6% for Jayce. 
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 10, 2019, 02:43:18 PM
The “save fouls” reasoning for Theo makes no damn sense

1. He’s fouling less this year

2. It makes no sense. Let’s say Theo starts and picks up 2 fouls in 3 minutes. Sits the entire half. 3 min played.

Now let’s say he comes off the bench after 4 min. Picks up 2 fouls in 3 mins. 3 min played.

It’s the exact same thing. His issue is getting fouls in bunches. That doesn’t randomly change because he sits 4 minutes to begin the game
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 10, 2019, 02:47:14 PM
Keep in mind that our starters go against THEIR starters, at least at the beginning of each half.  If Wojo and staff think that is the best matchup defensively or offensively (likely the former) to negate or slow down the other side, then that's what they are going to go with.  Let's give the staff who spends every day with them a little bit of latitude here.  They won't be 100% correct, but they have so much more information than we do, including the conditioning and health of Big Johnson.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 10, 2019, 03:22:18 PM
Keep in mind that our starters go against THEIR starters, at least at the beginning of each half.  If Wojo and staff think that is the best matchup defensively or offensively (likely the former) to negate or slow down the other side, then that's what they are going to go with.  Let's give the staff who spends every day with them a little bit of latitude here.  They won't be 100% correct, but they have so much more information than we do, including the conditioning and health of Big Johnson.

Cheeks is the king of posting cringe
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2019, 03:35:21 PM
Actually, that is more up RS, 4ever, Ziggy's, or JB's (nh) alley.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: manesworld on December 10, 2019, 03:36:52 PM
Cheeks just lets everyone know he refuses to get near teenage boys or young girls.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: #UnleashJayce on December 10, 2019, 04:49:07 PM
Cheeks just lets everyone know he refuses to get near teenage boys or young girls.

*Isn't allowed near.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 10, 2019, 05:30:25 PM
Cheeks just lets everyone know he refuses to get near teenage boys or young girls.

If it means stalking them on social media, you are correct.  Or just about any other aspect, for that matter unless as a coach, counselor or teacher.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: manesworld on December 10, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
If it means stalking them on social media, you are correct.  Or just about any other aspect, for that matter unless as a coach, counselor or teacher.

If you need to consciously prevent yourself from interacting with teenage boys or young girls then good for you for having the self awareness to know it could lead you to trouble and keeping yourself from doing so.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 10, 2019, 11:05:18 PM
The Theo Slander will not stand.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELb0npsX0AAIunv?format=jpg&name=large)

The defensive stats are pure money. Theo is 25th in block percent after finishing 17th last season. Theo staying at home more to protect the paint has MU opponents shooting just 42% from two versus a 49% national average.

He has also cut way down on turnovers (moving picks) and his assist rate is almost double his frosh number.  More so, his free throw rate is a whopping 85%. The Act of Attrition has reversed as he spends more time on the floor due to less dumb fouls, while the opponents struggle with the three headed monster.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 10, 2019, 11:21:44 PM
If you need to consciously prevent yourself from interacting with teenage boys or young girls then good for you for having the self awareness to know it could lead you to trouble and keeping yourself from doing so.

Yeah, that’s it.  Sorry, I’ll continue to not follow 15 to 17 year old basketball players on social media because because I find it weird and too many of these guys are entitled to begin with.  We have a society judging how many followers and likes they get.  You can do whatever you wish, and I’ll choose my path. 
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: TAMU Garcia on December 11, 2019, 12:52:38 AM
Another fun Theo John stat. Marquette went 14-3 last season when he played 19 minutes or more (aka stayed out of early foul trouble). They went 10-7 when he played 18 minutes or less and four of those wins came against Southern, North Dakota, UTEP, and Bethune Cookman (a 5th one came against DePaul). Marquette was also 8-0 when he played 25+ minutes.

So far this season we are 4-0 when Theo hits the 19 minute mark. He played 34 minutes in our best win (Purdue). His season low was against Maryland.

My hypothesis is that good things happen when Theo can stay on the floor.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: IrwinFletcher on December 11, 2019, 07:50:58 AM
Another fun Theo John stat. Marquette went 14-3 last season when he played 19 minutes or more (aka stayed out of early foul trouble). They went 10-7 when he played 18 minutes or less and four of those wins came against Southern, North Dakota, UTEP, and Bethune Cookman (a 5th one came against DePaul). Marquette was also 8-0 when he played 25+ minutes.

So far this season we are 4-0 when Theo hits the 19 minute mark. He played 34 minutes in our best win (Purdue). His season low was against Maryland.

My hypothesis is that good things happen when Theo can stay on the floor.

That is some good stuff there.  And likely why we see a lot more of Theo over Ed.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 11, 2019, 08:15:06 AM
Cheeks is the king of posting cringe


You kept saying I was on ignore....yet you keep quoting me.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: brewcity77 on December 11, 2019, 08:21:43 AM

You kept saying I was on ignore....yet you keep quoting me.

I quote people I have on ignore. I find that it's useful to use the ignore feature to diminish unproductive conversations that certain users often try to repeatedly reinvigorate, but still occasionally engage when appropriate. Using ignore while not publicly announcing I'm using ignore makes for a more productive Scoop experience for me.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 11, 2019, 08:30:38 AM
I quote people I have on ignore. I find that it's useful to use the ignore feature to diminish unproductive conversations that certain users often try to repeatedly reinvigorate, but still occasionally engage when appropriate. Using ignore while not publicly announcing I'm using ignore makes for a more productive Scoop experience for me.

If you have them on ignore to not see their comments, his stated reason, then you cannot quote them as it is hidden.  You have to reveal what was said.  Don’t worry, I knew he was fibbing when he said it and every time he quotes me it is humorous....it’s also humorous how selectively outraged he is.  Not what is said, but who says the what.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2019, 09:09:29 AM
Another fun Theo John stat. Marquette went 14-3 last season when he played 19 minutes or more (aka stayed out of early foul trouble). They went 10-7 when he played 18 minutes or less and four of those wins came against Southern, North Dakota, UTEP, and Bethune Cookman (a 5th one came against DePaul). Marquette was also 8-0 when he played 25+ minutes.

So far this season we are 4-0 when Theo hits the 19 minute mark. He played 34 minutes in our best win (Purdue). His season low was against Maryland.

My hypothesis is that good things happen when Theo can stay on the floor.

The narrative that Theo has little to no value to the Warriors is ridiculous. When he stays out of foul trouble and on the court, his defensive presence is worth many points per game. Because of his elite shotblocking skill (and shot-changing skill), he can affect a game in a different way than anybody else on our roster.

The problem, of course, is getting him to stay out of foul trouble and on the court. He's improving in that realm, though perhaps not enough. He played well in our most recent game at K-State: 3 blocks, 8 rebounds, numerous shot-trajectories altered in 21 solid minutes.

Wojo doesn't keep starting him just for funsies.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: We R Final Four on December 11, 2019, 10:38:40 AM
The narrative that Theo has little to no value to the Warriors is ridiculous.
Have scoopers actually said TJ has no value?
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Its DJOver on December 11, 2019, 10:40:42 AM
Have scoopers actually said TJ has no value?

Not as drastic as "no value", but...

I do not think Theo has a great deal of basketball skills and is a marginal contributor. At this point, I would play Johnson until he got in foul trouble, followed by Ed and then Theo. Lack of scoring is far from top of list of things Theo would need to work on.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Cheeks on December 11, 2019, 10:53:44 AM
Have scoopers actually said TJ has no value?

Haven’t seen that...but seen the predictable “he has regressed” comments from several folks.  Of course they are not factoring in our schedule thus far this year vs last year at same time, or that we have a 3 headed monster this year vs last year.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: TAMU Garcia on December 11, 2019, 11:10:05 AM
While he certainly has things he can improve on, Theo is absolutely a defensive game changer. Coach McDermott said it best last season "Don't challenge the monster in the post." I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Theo saves us a couple of points a game just on pure intimidation alone.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Jay Bee on December 11, 2019, 01:04:16 PM
His season low was against Maryland.

My hypothesis is that good things happen when Theo can stay on the floor.

He could have stayed on the floor vs. Maryland, aina? Coaches decision iirc. Jayce was rebounding... Theo had 0 all game.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: MU82 on December 11, 2019, 01:33:25 PM
He could have stayed on the floor vs. Maryland, aina? Coaches decision iirc. Jayce was rebounding... Theo had 0 all game.

Fair.

And this is why we have more than one capable, role-playing center. Jayce looked like the best of the 3 for a couple games there, but Theo was very good against K-State. And Morrow has had his moments, too. Glad to have all 3.
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 11, 2019, 11:02:03 PM
you cannot quote them as it is hidden.  You have to reveal what was said.

If you ignore someone, when they post it says "You are ignoring this user. Show me the post."  With a link to show the post.  So easy to ignore someone, but easy to quote them if you feel like it.  Best of both worlds., I guess. 
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: Jay Bee on December 12, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
Fair.

And this is why we have more than one capable, role-playing center. Jayce looked like the best of the 3 for a couple games there, but Theo was very good against K-State. And Morrow has had his moments, too. Glad to have all 3.

Yep. I think you look at how kids are practicing, you look at matchups and needs in each specific game and situation, and if there's a "hot hand", you run with it... I'm OK with the minutes getting allocated quite a bit differently from game to game...

..but I'm also interested in trying a little of the two bigs at the same time thing (nh)
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: lawdog77 on December 12, 2019, 02:53:16 PM
If you ignore someone, when they post it says "You are ignoring this user. Show me the post."  With a link to show the post.  So easy to ignore someone, but easy to quote them if you feel like it.  Best of both worlds., I guess.
And those who have him on ignore see most of his posts, since people oftentimes quote him. I have everyone on ignore, BTW
Title: Re: Hot take
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 12, 2019, 05:38:23 PM
I have everyone on ignore, BTW

Solid strategy.