MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mikem91288 on November 15, 2010, 10:14:06 AM

Title: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: mikem91288 on November 15, 2010, 10:14:06 AM
All the chatter about the lineups is enjoyable, its great to not have a 7 man rotation anymore, but the real test is who starts against Duke? This was really tough and I changed my mind a buch of times, but what do you think of this........

My guess
1 Buycks
2. Blue
3 JFB
4 Crowder
5 Otule
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 15, 2010, 10:18:55 AM
I understand looking forward to the Duke game. MU has two games before Duke, in Green Bay and South Dakota. Both of those two schools won over 20 games last season and made it to postseason play.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: mikem91288 on November 15, 2010, 10:21:03 AM
legit point Mupanther. I will be first to admit I'm a bit overly excited because I am headed down to KC.

Any info on UWGB from a horizon league expert? I know they beat the Badgers last year, so they are dangerous. Plus, Brian Wardle was taught well......
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 15, 2010, 10:21:19 AM
Ignoring the Duke comment and looking forward to our game on Wednesday:

I still dislike Buycks at the 1.  I'll take Cadougan any day.

Buycks is good at the 2 spot, but his shoot-first mentality kills me.  If he gives up another open three and instead takes 1 STEP inside the 3-pt line to take a challenged shot I'm going to write a strongly worded letter to the athletic department.  Plus I haven't seen much from him in the way of awesome passes.  Cadougan has great court vision and can get the ball down-low at angles that take my breath away.

I wish DJO would start instead of Blue, but right now DJO's head isn't in the game.  While Blue lacks offense, he's an absolute pest on D :)
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on November 15, 2010, 10:23:13 AM
Yeah we can't overlook the games before Duke. Like ive said before, the typical early season "cupcakes" arnt really there for us this year. We are playing solid mid major tourney teams.

But to answer the question DJO has to start and I think this game will be his coming out party on national t.v. Blue will play alot whether he starts or not cuz he will be responsible for irving or smith for alot of game.

Crowder and Jimmy have to start to contain singler best we can.

hopefully ox and otule can handle their own vs plumlees.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2010, 10:33:22 AM
I've been wondering if it might be time already for Gardner to start. The Ox has been just that in his first two games, and we need someone with his kind of power inside. He could come off the bench again, but I wouldn't mind seeing him and Otule reverse roles. It seems like Ox is going to earn more minutes by the end of the game, why not let him start that trend from the opening tip?
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: willie warrior on November 15, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
Ignoring the Duke comment and looking forward to our game on Wednesday:

I still dislike Buycks at the 1.  I'll take Cadougan any day.

Buycks is good at the 2 spot, but his shoot-first mentality kills me.  If he gives up another open three and instead takes 1 STEP inside the 3-pt line to take a challenged shot I'm going to write a strongly worded letter to the athletic department.  Plus I haven't seen much from him in the way of awesome passes.  Cadougan has great court vision and can get the ball down-low at angles that take my breath away.


I wish DJO would start instead of Blue, but right now DJO's head isn't in the game.  While Blue lacks offense, he's an absolute best on D :)

Agree with most of what you said Skat Man, but I would still start DJO over Blue. Better slasher and outside shot. They could both start when going small.
Garrdner and Otule are a toss up.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: MUfan12 on November 15, 2010, 10:42:31 AM
It seems like Ox is going to earn more minutes by the end of the game, why not let him start that trend from the opening tip?

Given his level of conditioning, I like how Buzz is using him right now. I kinda like the idea of a rested offensive threat inside against guys who are tired/in foul trouble.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: MerrittsMustache on November 15, 2010, 10:45:24 AM
I've been wondering if it might be time already for Gardner to start. The Ox has been just that in his first two games, and we need someone with his kind of power inside. He could come off the bench again, but I wouldn't mind seeing him and Otule reverse roles. It seems like Ox is going to earn more minutes by the end of the game, why not let him start that trend from the opening tip?

Ox needs to pace himself. For the time being, he'll likely see a bulk of his minutes in the second half. You don't sprint out of the gates while running a marathon...especially if you weigh 290 pounds  ;)
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: GGGG on November 15, 2010, 10:47:01 AM
A good friend of mine has been a Duke fan forever...but not one of *those* Duke fans.

He says this backcourt might be the best in Coach K's history.  Irving and Nolan Smith are *that* good.  Given our problems with perimeter defense, and frankly our relative youth, I hope the PG position is solidified by then and DJO wakes up.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: RJax55 on November 15, 2010, 10:48:24 AM
I've been wondering if it might be time already for Gardner to start. The Ox has been just that in his first two games, and we need someone with his kind of power inside. He could come off the bench again, but I wouldn't mind seeing him and Otule reverse roles. It seems like Ox is going to earn more minutes by the end of the game, why not let him start that trend from the opening tip?

How many minutes can Gardner play right now and be effective on both ends of the floor? I don't know if he can play more than 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: #MUBB on November 15, 2010, 10:48:51 AM
All the chatter about the lineups is enjoyable, its great to not have a 7 man rotation anymore, but the real test is who starts against Duke? This was really tough and I changed my mind a buch of times, but what do you think of this........

My guess
1 Buycks
2. Blue
3 JFB
4 Crowder
5 Otule

The way Buzz has been rotating guys in and out thus far I'm not overly concerned with what the starting 5 will be. However, I will be very surprised if DJO isn't in the first 5 for this game. This big of a game this early in the season, I expect Buzz to lean towards an experienced player. Hopefully DJO at the 2.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: w0bbie on November 15, 2010, 11:06:37 AM
I like Junior as the number one option at PG.  Also, I don't think we'll see much of Junior and Vander on the floor at the same time.  At this point, neither seem to be a huge scoring threat, so I think it's best they don't play together.  I'd try to keep two of our more experienced scorers: Jimmy, DJO, Buycks out there with one of Blue/Cadougan and fill in the rest of the guys based on the other teams current players.  This way we can have those 2 scorers be the main focus of the defense, with our other 2 guys being capable scorers since they arent the focus.  This leaves either Junior/Vander as the lowest priority their defense will be keying on and may open up easy scoring opportunities that will help to build Junior/Vander's confidence scoring.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 15, 2010, 11:10:53 AM
legit point Mupanther. I will be first to admit I'm a bit overly excited because I am headed down to KC.

Any info on UWGB from a horizon league expert? I know they beat the Badgers last year, so they are dangerous. Plus, Brian Wardle was taught well......
Green Bay has a great back in Rahmon Fletcher and Bryquis Perine, who is from Milwaukee. GB added 7'1 freshmen Alec Brown and juco transfer Jarvis Williams. Green Bay was picked anywhere from 4th to 6st place in the Horizon League.

http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=110001&SPID=13663&DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=205030619
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Doris Burkes Thong on November 15, 2010, 11:15:15 AM
Gotta keep Gardner coming off the bench. IMO, that's the best role for him to be most effective at the moment.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: TallTitan34 on November 15, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
I understand looking forward to the Duke game. MU has two games before Duke, in Green Bay and South Dakota. Both of those two schools won over 20 games last season and made it to postseason play.

Ignoring the Duke comment and looking forward to our game on Wednesday:

Yeah we can't overlook the games before Duke. Like ive said before, the typical early season "cupcakes" arnt really there for us this year. We are playing solid mid major tourney teams.

I agree that the team cannot overlook Green Bay and South Dakota.  But I don't think it really matters if us scoopers look ahead towards Duke.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 15, 2010, 11:20:40 AM
I agree that the team cannot overlook Green Bay and South Dakota.  But I don't think it really matters if us scoopers look ahead towards Duke.
Yes and no. It's hard to say what will happen in the Duke game, because the line-up is changing. Look how things change for MU from Friday to Sunday.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Coleman on November 15, 2010, 11:26:59 AM
Yeah we can't overlook the games before Duke. Like ive said before, the typical early season "cupcakes" arnt really there for us this year. We are playing solid mid major tourney teams.


Certainly, the team can't overlook those games. But WE can. C'mon guys. Our talking about Duke isn't going to affect the performance of our team vs. South Dakota and UWGB. I say talk about all the lineups all you want.

I agree with the original poster's lineup...except switch Gardner for Otule.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: avid1010 on November 15, 2010, 11:35:48 AM
Against Duke:

1. Junior
2. DB
3. DJO
4. JB
5. Jae

My question would be with JC...if Buzz believes he can play Blue without limiting offensive production too much, he'll go that route (DB at the point) because Duke's back-court is impressive.  I'm not too concerned with their post players, but that's based off of watching them in one game against Princeton.  I'm guessing Buzz hasn't settled on a line-up for that game yet, so it's hard to even guess.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 15, 2010, 11:41:13 AM
Certainly, the team can't overlook those games. But WE can. C'mon guys. Our talking about Duke isn't going to affect the performance of our team vs. South Dakota and UWGB. I say talk about all the lineups all you want.

I agree with the original poster's lineup...except switch Gardner for Otule.
It's hard to give a lineup for Duke, when stuff can change in the next two games.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: TallTitan34 on November 15, 2010, 11:44:29 AM
Based on your logic we also shouldn't make pre-season predictions for the season because things can change.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: bilsu on November 16, 2010, 12:15:08 PM
I think Reggie starts at point against Duke, because of Irving's quickness. Otule starts, because of Duke's size. Blue starts, because he is better than DJO. Crowder is going to play the majority of minutes at the four whether he starts or not. No need to mention Butler.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Retire0 on November 16, 2010, 12:22:22 PM
This is why Duke is so good every year. Their fans, on message boards, are not allowed to look past inferior opponents. The fans are so well coached by K, that they know to focus one game at a time.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: w0bbie on November 16, 2010, 12:28:04 PM
I think Reggie starts at point against Duke, because of Irving's quickness. Otule starts, because of Duke's size. Blue starts, because he is better than DJO. Crowder is going to play the majority of minutes at the four whether he starts or not. No need to mention Butler.

This makes sense from a defensive standpoint, but I think we need at least one other proven scoring option in there.  Crowder has good numbers so far but I see him as the number 2 option in this lineup.  Not sure if he's ready for that against a team of Duke's caliber.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Ready2Fly on November 16, 2010, 12:45:02 PM
DB
DJO
VB
JFB
JC
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: chren21 on November 16, 2010, 01:05:06 PM
DB
DJO
VB
JFB
JC

Agree. But could see otule instead of crowder based on recent starters
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NersEllenson on November 16, 2010, 01:07:41 PM
Reggie
Vander
DJO or Buycks
Jimmy
Otule or Crowder

All analysis thus far shows the team really struggles with Buycks at the 1..he'g got to play off the ball.  At this point he's shooting it better than DJO, so I give the nod to him.  My thought is that Buzz is going to try to start his best defensive team..and especially with Dukes guards..I see Reggie and Vander starting. 
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: hdog1017 on November 16, 2010, 01:09:44 PM
It doesn't matter who starts...it matters who finishes. 
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: mikem91288 on November 16, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
This is why Duke is so good every year. Their fans, on message boards, are not allowed to look past inferior opponents. The fans are so well coached by K, that they know to focus one game at a time.

Your absolutely right. All Duke fans are the most humble college basketball fans in the country, they never look past a single opponent.....come on.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: chren21 on November 16, 2010, 01:18:35 PM
It doesn't matter who starts...it matters who finishes. 

Honestly?  It dosen't matter?  Exactly at what point in the game does it matter then?  Just the last 4 minutes?
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NumenFlumenque on November 16, 2010, 01:23:39 PM
DB
VB
JC/JF
JFB
CO

I think Vander will match up with Irving because Vander has seen Irving play firsthand and hopefully has a better read on how to stop him. DB will then get Smith, Butler will get Singler, and JC/JF, Otule will get the Plumlees.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Pakuni on November 16, 2010, 01:24:47 PM
This is why Duke is so good every year. Their fans, on message boards, are not allowed to look past inferior opponents. The fans are so well coached by K, that they know to focus one game at a time.

UWGB is classic trap game for MU fans. We get caught looking ahead to Duke, don't bring our 'A' game to the BC and next thing you know we're getting out-cheered by the small contingent of fans down from Brown County.
We must not let that happen.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: APieperFan3 on November 16, 2010, 01:39:18 PM
Given his level of conditioning, I like how Buzz is using him right now. I kinda like the idea of a rested offensive threat inside against guys who are tired/in foul trouble.

VERY good point MUFan.

Especially early in the year. Gardner is doing a great job.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: bilsu on November 16, 2010, 01:54:36 PM
It doesn't matter who starts...it matters who finishes. 
Sure it does. We cannot get off to a bad start if we are going to have any chance of winning this game. Al  McGuire use to say if you cut off the head (point guard) the body will die.While it may not be 100% true, we have to keep Irving from taking over the game with his scoring and passing. As far as playing three guards, I think it depends on what position Singular is playing. If Singular is playing small forward, you are not going to stop him with a guard.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: bilsu on November 16, 2010, 01:57:38 PM
This is why Duke is so good every year. Their fans, on message boards, are not allowed to look past inferior opponents. The fans are so well coached by K, that they know to focus one game at a time.
I am pretty sure, especially since we are not ranked, that Duke fans see us as an inferior opponent and are looking past us to Kansas St. There probalby is not a Duke fan that is worried about us beating them.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NersEllenson on November 16, 2010, 02:05:54 PM
I am pretty sure, especially since we are not ranked, that Duke fans see us as an inferior opponent and are looking past us to Kansas St. There probalby is not a Duke fan that is worried about us beating them.

While that might be true..their not too distant early season tournament past against us..shouldn't have their fans looking past MU.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: brewcity77 on November 16, 2010, 02:41:51 PM
UWGB is classic trap game for MU fans. We get caught looking ahead to Duke, don't bring our 'A' game to the BC and next thing you know we're getting out-cheered by the small contingent of fans down from Brown County.
We must not let that happen.

Not that I think there's any real worry in terms of fan preparedness, but I think Bucknell was the classic trap game. We blow out PVAM and it looks like clear coasting up until we see Duke. My guess is some of the players may have felt that way, and if not for a dominant 24-0 second half run, UWGB is a bounce-back game rather than a trap.

My guess is that Buzz is probably glad Bucknell made us work so hard for the win, and that when he tells the players "this team is a legitimate threat to you" they will now listen. As fans, it's easy to look ahead to Duke, but my guess is Buzz now has the attention of everyone in the locker room when he tells them that Green Bay, a team that knocked off Wisconsin last year and returns the top two scorers from that game.

If we want to overlook them here on the Scoop, that's one thing. I am confident Buzz won't let the guys that will be on the court overlook them.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Jay-Z on November 16, 2010, 02:58:36 PM
Who cares about the starting lineup.  The only thing that matters is who is on the floor at the end of the game.

Buycks
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Gardner
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: muwarrior69 on November 16, 2010, 02:59:11 PM
How can the team look ahead 2 games when Buzz has them focus on how important each possession is?
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NavinRJohnson on November 16, 2010, 03:01:51 PM
Who cares about the starting lineup.  The only thing that matters is who is on the floor at the end of the game.

Buycks
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Gardner

Close...

Buycks
Blue
DJO
Crowder
Butler
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: ManeCity83 on November 16, 2010, 03:09:09 PM
Honestly?  It dosen't matter?  Exactly at what point in the game does it matter then?  Just the last 4 minutes?

All I know is whenever Frozen-A finishes a game, MU wins.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Jay-Z on November 16, 2010, 03:30:42 PM
How can the team look ahead 2 games when Buzz has them focus on how important each possession is?

ummm we're not on the team...we're fans, we are allowed to look ahead
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: wojosdojo on November 16, 2010, 03:46:17 PM
I think Reggie starts at point against Duke, because of Irving's quickness. Otule starts, because of Duke's size. Blue starts, because he is better than DJO. Crowder is going to play the majority of minutes at the four whether he starts or not. No need to mention Butler.

Blue IS NOT an all around better player than DJO.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NersEllenson on November 16, 2010, 05:41:03 PM
Blue IS NOT an all around better player than DJO.

I agree..think DJO is getting a bum rap.  DJO will have a much better season statistically than Vander.  I like Vander, but also think people have gotten a little too excited over him.  He's been solid for sure, but let's not annoint him just yet.  Gardner to me has been far more impressive than Vander.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: chren21 on November 16, 2010, 07:03:22 PM
I agree..think DJO is getting a bum rap.  DJO will have a much better season statistically than Vander.  I like Vander, but also think people have gotten a little too excited over him.  He's been solid for sure, but let's not annoint him just yet.  Gardner to me has been far more impressive than Vander.

In my opinion vander has been much more impressive than OX. Based on the number of minutes played he has been fantastic. Mostly on the defensive end but this is more important to buzz than the offensive end. His scoring is going to come quickly as he gets more comfortable. 
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Steve Buscemi on November 16, 2010, 08:30:47 PM
Honestly?  It dosen't matter?  Exactly at what point in the game does it matter then?  Just the last 4 minutes?

 Just the last 24 - 0 run.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: avid1010 on November 16, 2010, 08:53:43 PM
Anyone else worried about turnovers if Junior doesn't start against the Duke pressure defense?  I don't feel that Reggie is remotely ready to handle that pressure. 

It will be interesting to see if Buzz feels a need to have a true big (Gardner or Otule) in to deal with the two 6' 10" players Duke will put on the court, or if he decides to go small.  Going small is going to create a mismatch at three positions with one of the guards likely trying to play Singler, and I worry more about the rebounding issues than I do the Plumlees or Kelly scoring big numbers.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: MUSF on November 16, 2010, 09:42:11 PM
Buycks
Vander
DJO
JFB
Crowder
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: NersEllenson on November 16, 2010, 10:09:38 PM
Anyone else worried about turnovers if Junior doesn't start against the Duke pressure defense?  I don't feel that Reggie is remotely ready to handle that pressure. 

It will be interesting to see if Buzz feels a need to have a true big (Gardner or Otule) in to deal with the two 6' 10" players Duke will put on the court, or if he decides to go small.  Going small is going to create a mismatch at three positions with one of the guards likely trying to play Singler, and I worry more about the rebounding issues than I do the Plumlees or Kelly scoring big numbers.

I didn't see the Duke game tonight..but..I don't feel any more confident in Junior handling the pressure than I do Reggie.  Both make me nervous with the ball in their hands against stiff pressure.  Buycks - I feel a lot more confident with him in the game in situations like that...but we lose a lot when he has to play the "1."  He's much better off the ball...should be interesting to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: jfmu on November 21, 2010, 03:58:46 PM
Buycks
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Otule

with Vander getting significant minutes. It will be interesting to see who Duke starts. It will be Irving, Smith and Singler. Just don't know which of the other 3 traditional players will start
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on November 21, 2010, 04:01:50 PM
Buycks
DJO
Butler
Crowder
Otule

with Vander getting significant minutes. It will be interesting to see who Duke starts. It will be Irving, Smith and Singler. Just don't know which of the other 3 traditional players will start
If Blue has started every game so far this year, he will start this one.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: karavotsos on November 21, 2010, 04:31:28 PM
Buycks -- Irving
DJO     -- Smith
Blue    --  Singler
JFB     --  Kelly
Otule  --  Plumlee

With Crowder coming off the bench fairly early for Otule most likely.  If we don't have Fulce and Gardner, beyond that our frontline bench may be a problem.  I guess, looking at this, JFB and Blue could have quickness advantages to start, and offensively that's where they start.  Backup guards: Dawkins and Curry v. Reggie and Cadougan.  No easy task.  Guys will have to step up.
Title: Re: Lineup vs. Duke
Post by: brewcity77 on November 21, 2010, 06:17:11 PM
Buycks -- Irving
DJO     -- Smith
Blue    --  Singler
JFB     --  Kelly
Otule  --  Plumlee

I agree with this starting five 100%. I'm really hoping we can get some early minutes for Erik Williams as well. I think that he might be able to draw fouls on the Plumlees, which could make for a very efficient Gardner in the second half (if he's healthy).