https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1816153497512861993
Full article:
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-to-increase-scholarships-for-sports-with-football-getting-roster-limit-of-105-players-164300598.html
Practically, this means that Shaka has four additional spots to fill for next year. However, as the article states, all sports will now equivalency sports and not headcount. Therefore those 15 scholarships could be spread out over more than 15 student athletes.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 24, 2024, 11:54:15 AM
https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1816153497512861993
Full article:
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-to-increase-scholarships-for-sports-with-football-getting-roster-limit-of-105-players-164300598.html
No excuse not to get an aircraft carrier
I guess the transfer portal isn't big enough yet.
So Stevens, Ward, Lewis, Allen come on down?
This should help Shaka's approach of letting big guys mature and develop with a redshirt year.
Never let it be said that the power conferences let pass an opportunity to un-even the playing field.
Quote from: barfolomew on July 24, 2024, 12:40:32 PM
Never let it be said that the power conferences let pass an opportunity to un-even the playing field.
*Further* un-even. It's never been even.
And if it causes a bunch of schools to leave D1, that's fine with me. But it won't.
They going with three 20 minute periods like hockey to get everyone playing time?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 24, 2024, 11:56:30 AM
However, as the article states, all sports will now equivalency sports and not headcount. Therefore those 15 scholarships could be spread out over more than 15 student athletes.
Will that be possible? If it's tied to the roster limit -- which is what I understood the article to be saying -- will they be able to spread money out to a number of kids that exceeds the roster limit?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 24, 2024, 01:14:21 PM
Will that be possible? If it's tied to the roster limit -- which is what I understood the article to be saying -- will they be able to spread money out to a number of kids that exceeds the roster limit?
it means only 15 players can be on the roster. But, all can be getting some amount of athletic aid. However, if the scholarships are going to be treated the same as equivalency scholarships are currently treated you could essentially have everyone on a full scholarship by stacking with academic and need-based aid.
The key point from the article:
Power conference commissioners have finalized roster limits for Football (105), Men's and Women's Basketball (15), Baseball (34), Softball (25) and Volleyball (18) starting in 2025-26, pending approval of the House settlement
Not a fan.
Me neither. Doesn't seem that will matter much.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 24, 2024, 01:28:35 PM
it means only 15 players can be on the roster. But, all can be getting some amount of athletic aid. However, if the scholarships are going to be treated the same as equivalency scholarships are currently treated you could essentially have everyone on a full scholarship by stacking with academic and need-based aid.
The key point from the article: Power conference commissioners have finalized roster limits for Football (105), Men's and Women's Basketball (15), Baseball (34), Softball (25) and Volleyball (18) starting in 2025-26, pending approval of the House settlement
Too lazy to look, so does the 15 person roster include "walk-ons", family memberts, etc?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 24, 2024, 01:28:35 PM
it means only 15 players can be on the roster. But, all can be getting some amount of athletic aid. However, if the scholarships are going to be treated the same as equivalency scholarships are currently treated you could essentially have everyone on a full scholarship by stacking with academic and need-based aid.
The key point from the article: Power conference commissioners have finalized roster limits for Football (105), Men's and Women's Basketball (15), Baseball (34), Softball (25) and Volleyball (18) starting in 2025-26, pending approval of the House settlement
I was expecting you in this thread, Billy. I noticed that in the article they repeated persistent mistaken belief that headcount sports "require players on scholarship to receive a full grant."
nm
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 24, 2024, 02:03:33 PM
Too lazy to look, so does the 15 person roster include "walk-ons", family memberts, etc?
Yes it looks like it as I understand it.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 24, 2024, 02:14:44 PM
I was expecting you in this thread, Billy. I noticed that in the article they repeated persistent mistaken belief that headcount sports "require players on scholarship to receive a full grant."
yep, you nailed it. All a headcount sport means is a player COUNTS as a full scholarship, not receives. For example, if MU's COA is $70k and MU awards a $30K academic scholarship to an incoming volleyball player then the rest of it ($40k) is made up from the athletic budget but still counts as 1 scholarship.
A school that only budgets 9 scholarships for VB ($630,000 using the example above) could have 12 individuals on the roster getting athletic money through the savings of institutional aid (if every scholarship student-athlete got $30k in MU aid that leaves an additional $270,000 to distribute to three other individuals up to the limit of 12). It's beneficial for underfunded sports to stack institutional and athletic aid to stretch their budgets but the number of individuals who can receive scholarships is still capped.
I have the feeling this is how it will work now if I'm reading the article accurately. Twh other key comments in the article include:
"As part of the agreement, roster limits must be set at or more than current scholarship restriction for each sport," and, using the new 105 limit for football as an example,
"an important note for football, the 105 may not be a requirement until the start of the competitive season, giving coaches flexibility to go beyond that figure during preseason camp, for instance."
14 & 15 should be high-GPA guys
And at the same time Calipari intends to only have 9 players.
Not sure about only 9, but 15 feels unruly.
Lowkey means nothing..
This is good news for good bench guys.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 24, 2024, 01:28:35 PM
it means only 15 players can be on the roster. But, all can be getting some amount of athletic aid. However, if the scholarships are going to be treated the same as equivalency scholarships are currently treated you could essentially have everyone on a full scholarship by stacking with academic and need-based aid.
The key point from the article: Power conference commissioners have finalized roster limits for Football (105), Men's and Women's Basketball (15), Baseball (34), Softball (25) and Volleyball (18) starting in 2025-26, pending approval of the House settlement
INDIANAPOLIS — Dozens more scholarship spots are coming to NCAA sports.
During a meeting Tuesday, power conference commissioners finalized new roster-size limits that pave the way for athletic departments to distribute millions of dollars in new scholarships to athletes in, most notably, football, baseball and softball. Conference officials with knowledge of the figures spoke to Yahoo Sports under condition of anonymity.
As part of the new revenue-sharing model — beginning in 2025-26 academic year — by-sport scholarship restrictions are eliminated, and schools are permitted to offer scholarships to the entirety of their rosters. The new roster limit figures are not final until the approval of House settlement terms.
Football, with a current scholarship restriction of 85, will now have a roster limit of 105 — a 20-scholarship increase for those schools willing to give the maximum. In an important note for football, the 105 may not be a requirement until the start of the competitive season, giving coaches flexibility to go beyond that figure during preseason camp, for instance.
Baseball, with a current scholarship restriction of 11.7, is expected to have a roster of 34. Scholarship spots for softball and volleyball, each currently at 12, will increase to 25 and 18, respectively.
In all, more than 60 additional scholarships are available for distribution in those five sports. As they do now, schools are not required to distribute scholarships to each player. For instance, many schools are unlikely to use a full 34 scholarships for baseball, choosing instead to offer grants to only a portion of its roster and leave walk-on opportunities.
The new roster figures are expected to be included in the long-form agreement in the landmark settlement of three antitrust cases, including the House v. NCAA lawsuit. The agreement is expected to be filed Friday with details on the distribution of the $2.77 billion in back pay to former athletes as well as particulars of the new revenue-sharing model permitting schools to distribute upwards of $20-plus million annually.
The details around roster sizes of other sports — many of which will see increases in scholarship slots — are expected in the document. No sport will see a reduction in scholarship spots, according to plaintiff attorneys. As part of the agreement, roster limits must be set at or more than current scholarship restriction for each sport.
Another key change to the scholarship structure: All sports will be considered "equivalency sports," meaning partial scholarships can be distributed to players. Football, basketball and other sports are currently considered "head-count sports," which require players on scholarship to receive a full grant.
On Tuesday at Big Ten media days, commissioner Tony Petitti said the settlement's expansion of scholarships gives schools "all kinds of opportunities," which possibly includes additional women's scholarships to balance out Title IX in a revenue-sharing model.
Many schools are preparing to increase scholarships significantly and can count as much as $2.5 million of additional scholarships toward the annual revenue sharing cap, expected to begin at or around $21.5 million. According to several power conference administrators who spoke to Yahoo Sports, programs are expecting to spend $3 million-7 million in additional scholarships each year.
For the most elite power programs, the total cost of both the scholarship additions and the sharing of revenue with athletes will exceed $30 million a year — a figure reported in a story on Yahoo in May. The annual revenue-sharing cap is expected to steadily increase to as much as $25 million in the next three years. The cap, based on an average of power school revenue streams, fluctuates as revenues increase.
To maintain compliance with the federal Title IX law, any scholarship increases in a men's sport will likely need to be replicated in a women's sport, driving up the additional costs. But not all programs can afford to add so many additional scholarships. Some administrators are in the process of "tiering" their sports by decreasing investment on certain programs and increasing investment in others. This includes staff and salary cuts as well as the reduction in scholarships from Olympic sports, especially those that generate little to no revenue.
Where in the article does it say Basketball is going up to 15? I saw it in the tweet, but not the article.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on July 25, 2024, 09:34:09 AM
Where in the article does it say Basketball is going up to 15? I saw it in the tweet, but not the article.
It's in the article from The Athletic:
The numbers in basketball are staying similar: Men's and women's teams will have a roster limit of 15. The current scholarship limit is 13.https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5656304/2024/07/24/ncaa-scholarships-limits/
My guess is they weren't mentioned because it's not a significant change like the others. The article you quoted frequently switches between roster size and scholarship limits too. Media is trying to break a story before having all of the details:
Football, with a current scholarship restriction of 85, will now have a roster limit of 105 — a 20-scholarship increase for those schools willing to give the maximum. In an important note for football, the 105 may not be a requirement until the start of the competitive season, giving coaches flexibility to go beyond that figure during preseason camp, for instance.
Baseball, with a current scholarship restriction of 11.7, is expected to have a roster of 34.
"The numbers in basketball are staying similar: Men's and women's teams will have a roster limit of 15. The current scholarship limit is 13."
This wording confuses me. Before this change teams could have 13 scholarship players and as far as I know there was no limit on the number of walk-ons. This wording seams to limit the number of players on a team to 15.
This actually makes sense, because teams could potentially not give a scholarship to a player being paid significant $'s in NIL, thus allowing them to use the scholarship on another player.
Quote from: bilsu on July 25, 2024, 01:36:43 PM
"The numbers in basketball are staying similar: Men's and women's teams will have a roster limit of 15. The current scholarship limit is 13."
This wording confuses me. Before this change teams could have 13 scholarship players and as far as I know there was no limit on the number of walk-ons. This wording seams to limit the number of players on a team to 15.
This actually makes sense, because teams could potentially not give a scholarship to a player being paid significant $'s in NIL, thus allowing them to use the scholarship on another player.
Good points.
Just means to me, there will be 720 more players in the portal! Also, means the blu bloods can take more players that think they belong on there level even though they are not. Does MU need Ward or Allen when they have Owens and Lowery?
Yes there will be more players in the portal. Which I don't view as a positive or negative - it's just a fact of college athletics today since players have more freedom of movement.
Another way to think about it is that 720 additional people will have access to higher education at a reduced price.
Quote from: bilsu on July 25, 2024, 01:36:43 PM
"The numbers in basketball are staying similar: Men's and women's teams will have a roster limit of 15. The current scholarship limit is 13."
This wording confuses me. Before this change teams could have 13 scholarship players and as far as I know there was no limit on the number of walk-ons. This wording seams to limit the number of players on a team to 15.
This actually makes sense, because teams could potentially not give a scholarship to a player being paid significant $'s in NIL, thus allowing them to use the scholarship on another player.
Consider your sources. Most people are idiots.
Women's has been 15. We're talking scholarship limits here.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 26, 2024, 08:24:57 AM
Consider your sources. Most people are idiots.
Women's has been 15. We're talking scholarship limits here.
Are you sure? Everything I have read has drawn a distinction between previous scholarship limits and roster limits. MBB will have a roster limit of 15, all of whom can be on scholarship.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 26, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
Are you sure? Everything I have read has drawn a distinction between previous scholarship limits and roster limits. MBB will have a roster limit of 15, all of whom can be on scholarship.
Many of the articles are equating roster sizes and scholarship limits. Again, people trying to get ahead of a story without knowing the details.
It is strange that WBB would stay the same in terms of the number of scholarships allowed while capping the roster at that number. I would be surprised if that's accurate unless WBB coaches have said they don't need or want more players on the roster. 15 is a lot. We'll start to see actual details soon. From SI this morning (this time focusing only on "roster spots:"
If the settlement is approved as is, football teams will have 105 roster spots, men's and women's basketball will have 15, volleyball will have 18, softball will have 25 and baseball will have 34.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 26, 2024, 08:53:52 AM
Many of the articles are equating roster sizes and scholarship limits. Again, people trying to get ahead of a story without knowing the details.
It is strange that WBB would stay the same in terms of the number of scholarships allowed while capping the roster at that number. I would be surprised if that's accurate unless WBB coaches have said they don't need or want more players on the roster. 15 is a lot. We'll start to see actual details soon. From SI this morning (this time focusing only on "roster spots:"
If the settlement is approved as is, football teams will have 105 roster spots, men's and women's basketball will have 15, volleyball will have 18, softball will have 25 and baseball will have 34.
There are large increases in women's volleyball and softball however.
Remember it's not the NCAA's problem to sort out Title IX - that's the responsibility of the individual schools.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 26, 2024, 08:57:50 AM
There are large increases in women's volleyball and softball however.
Remember it's not the NCAA's problem to sort out Title IX - that's the responsibility of the individual schools.
Life was a lot simpler before we let broads play sports. Go woke, go broke
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 26, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
Are you sure? Everything I have read has drawn a distinction between previous scholarship limits and roster limits. MBB will have a roster limit of 15, all of whom can be on scholarship.
Clarifying: The article that says women are at 13 is wrong. It's been at 15. The reality has been there have been numerous wbb teams carrying less than 15 by choice.
For us, I think it would be somewhat of a non-factor – walk-on / scout type players would just get on scholarship, and I would lean toward those walk-ons were great students to help with team GPA and other academic metrics (STUDENT-athletes!).
Having 15 guys in legitimate battles for playing time isn't going to work for most. Just will need to be direct in conversations when setting expectations.. e.g., 'we see you taking a year for development next season; no PT my boy', 'we see you as a scout team guy, you help our guys that actually play get better.. if there are 8 injuries maybe you'll get a little run, but don't count on it'..
15 has already been the ROSTER limit for mbb when it comes to what matta – the NCAA championship tourney! So, no change there other than 14 & 15 can be on scholarship.
Seems like other sports .. this is a trickier deal than mbb. E.g. football. Hope EA updates my game quickly as any changes come into play!!!
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 26, 2024, 08:58:53 AM
Life was a lot simpler before we let broads play sports. Go woke, go broke
*TRY TO play sports
From all that I could gather, this is a huge benefit to baseball specifically. Their scholarship pool has essentially tripled.
I'm wondering though if we would see an uptick in the quality of the walk-ons. For instance, would we get lower D1 or D2 guys who would rather sit on a bench at Marquette than play at Northern State.
Or would Shaka use them more for projects.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on July 26, 2024, 09:09:20 AM
From all that I could gather, this is a huge benefit to baseball specifically. Their scholarship pool has essentially tripled.
not really, unless they are actually going to allow 34 full-ride scholarships (doubtful). Currently, 27 kids can be on athletic aid and rosters can be as high as 39. This proposal will reduce the size of the rosters by 5 but increase the number of kids who can be on athletic aid by 7. One number I've heard thrown around for baseball scholarships is 18 to be divided among the 34.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 26, 2024, 09:07:24 AM
Clarifying: The article that says women are at 13 is wrong. It's been at 15. The reality has been there have been numerous wbb teams carrying less than 15 by choice.
For us, I think it would be somewhat of a non-factor – walk-on / scout type players would just get on scholarship, and I would lean toward those walk-ons were great students to help with team GPA and other academic metrics (STUDENT-athletes!).
Having 15 guys in legitimate battles for playing time isn't going to work for most. Just will need to be direct in conversations when setting expectations.. e.g., 'we see you taking a year for development next season; no PT my boy', 'we see you as a scout team guy, you help our guys that actually play get better.. if there are 8 injuries maybe you'll get a little run, but don't count on it'..
15 has already been the ROSTER limit for mbb when it comes to what matta – the NCAA championship tourney! So, no change there other than 14 & 15 can be on scholarship.
Seems like other sports .. this is a trickier deal than mbb. E.g. football. Hope EA updates my game quickly as any changes come into play!!!
Jay Bee does the NIL settlement agreement require all scholarship players to receive NIL money. I know some of the money was set aside for current players. I am not sure if there are rules on how it is doled out.
20 more football scholarship mean 20 less scholarships for men in other sports.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 01, 2024, 01:50:09 PM
20 more football scholarship mean 20 less scholarships for men in other sports.
What? No. It's not a zero sum game.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 01, 2024, 01:51:04 PM
What? No. It's not a zero sum game.
Then why?
https://marquettewire.org/2631441/tribune/tribune-sports/title-ix-leaves-wrestlers-pinned-without-a-sport/
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 01, 2024, 03:38:33 PM
Then why?
https://marquettewire.org/2631441/tribune/tribune-sports/title-ix-leaves-wrestlers-pinned-without-a-sport/
That was twenty years ago.
Increasing football scholarships doesn't mean 20 scholarships less for other sports - unless schools choose to take that approach.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 01, 2024, 03:55:41 PM
That was twenty years ago.
Increasing football scholarships doesn't mean 20 scholarships less for other sports - unless schools choose to take that approach.
So it is a zero sum game.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 02, 2024, 04:38:01 AM
So it is a zero sum game.
No it isn't. Most of the major D1 schools are going to offer more scholarships.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2024, 07:31:45 AM
No it isn't. Most of the major D1 schools are going to offer more scholarships.
Offset by higher tuition and fees? ;)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 02, 2024, 11:09:29 AM
Offset by higher tuition and fees? ;)
I'm thinking it probably depends on the school and their resources. I've always been under the impression that the Blue & Gold fund at MU helps with costs of tuition and fees primarily for non-revenue generating sports.
Quote from: Viper on August 04, 2024, 08:30:11 AM
I'm thinking it probably depends on the school and their resources. I've always been under the impression that the Blue & Gold fund at MU helps with costs of tuition and fees primarily for non-revenue generating sports.
Hat tip to me, who loaded the B&G Fund with another $20 so I could get an MU towel last week. #BigDonor
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on August 02, 2024, 07:31:45 AM
No it isn't. Most of the major D1 schools are going to offer more scholarships.
Looks like most public Universities are not in compliance with Title IX. It is zero sum with how the money is supposed to be distributed. Also, offering a scholarship and filling a scholarship are two different things.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2022/08/17/female-athletes-stiffed-scholarship-money-colleges-title-ix/7640647001/
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 05, 2024, 06:50:06 AM
Looks like most public Universities are not in compliance with Title IX. It is zero sum with how the money is supposed to be distributed. Also, offering a scholarship and filling a scholarship are two different things.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2022/08/17/female-athletes-stiffed-scholarship-money-colleges-title-ix/7640647001/
OK. So I guess you are going to stick to the "zero sum game" theory even though it has been repeatedly stated, with proof, that its not a zero sum game.
And if schools are violating Title IX, of which athletic scholarships is only a portion, then the Department of Education should enforce its regulations.