https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1773978919437299785?t=mSv_J4KQBcV-A4DxR9aXpg&s=19
Get Goodell on it.
Dekker nose balls.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/uUNezPgyx07RrBd6kGYpZoSmVe2gHQJeGcooiCguqw0.jpg?auto=webp&s=ac50c588511f440440d01f4bb77d694e10b89831)
I made a comment to my buddy that Kam jones had about 4 3 pointers that were 75% down and somehow came out. If true it's the difference in the game
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 30, 2024, 11:30:12 AM
I made a comment to my buddy that Kam jones had about 4 3 pointers that were 75% down and somehow came out. If true it's the difference in the game
This is dumb. Apparently only NC State knows how to hit 39% from 3 with big balls.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 30, 2024, 11:32:54 AM
This is dumb. Apparently only NC State knows how to hit 39% from 3 with big balls.
While it maybe be dumb, the point of the thread isn't about the size of the ball.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 30, 2024, 11:35:02 AM
While it maybe be dumb, the point of the thread isn't about the size of the ball.
Sure, but blaming MU's shooting woes on inflation is...special. Especially when the other team had no problem.
Also, disappointed with your lack of immaturity.
Inflation is killing everything
Yup. Another thread complaining about inflation.
For what it's worth I think there were more misses that bounced over the backboard last night than the entire season combined...
Thanks, Biden.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 30, 2024, 12:00:05 PM
Thanks, Biden.
He should have found a place in his administration for a Patriot equipment manager?
Not just Marquette.
This guy has several videos on the matter.
https://x.com/bobbypfor3?s=21&t=jxqs74xjrj0YOEifH9UtCw
Not the reason we lost, but it is so insane to me that there isn't a uniform ball used in all D1 basketball games. One of the guys in the groups that I play with on Saturdays got the ball they use for the NCAA Tournament and everyone was like "hell no" to him trying to make it the ball we would play with. We usually use the Wilson Evolution, which to me is pretty similar to the Nike ball (which most teams use, because most teams are Nike). But they're completely different from the ball they use in the Tournament. It's crazy that there's not a single ball used.
Both games in Dallas last night were under their line total by over 25 points. The two games included three KP top 21 offenses as well.
To say that is unusual would be an understatement.
RJ Davis and Caleb Love went a combined 0/18 from three.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 30, 2024, 01:57:10 PM
Both games in Dallas last night were under their line total by over 25 points. The two games included three KP top 21 offenses as well.
To say that is unusual would be an understatement.
Definitely tempting to bet on the O/U in tomorrow's Elite 8 game, maybe that's what's needed for change, have a surge in winning bets.
Can't help but notice how much the ball is bouncing around in this ILL/UCONN game lol
Quote from: wadesworld on March 30, 2024, 01:47:14 PM
Not the reason we lost, but it is so insane to me that there isn't a uniform ball used in all D1 basketball games.
Agreed. As I watch this Illinois-UConn game, I am 100% convinced this is real and an unacceptable and embarassing problem.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 30, 2024, 06:00:58 PM
Agreed. As I watch this Illinois-UConn game, I am 100% convinced this is real and an unacceptable and embarassing problem.
It affects rebounding too, there was one instance last night where Oso was affected due to an unexpected extra weird bounce on the rim and he lost a defensive rebound.
Quote from: statnik on March 30, 2024, 06:11:45 PM
It affects rebounding too, there was one instance last night where Oso was affected due to an unexpected extra weird bounce on the rim and he lost a defensive rebound.
It'd be interesting to know at what point MU started practicing with the Wilson NCAA ball.
If this all is true, which to some extent it looks to be at least somewhat true, then it disproportionately affects high volume 3-point shooting teams, and good shooters.
We lost. Period.
This is all nonsense. I'm sure some of the posts were tongue-in-cheek, but I think some are actually serious.
Quote from: Jockey on March 30, 2024, 06:53:16 PM
We lost. Period.
This is all nonsense. I'm sure some of the posts were tongue-in-cheek, but I think some are actually serious.
Cmon. They're serious. Dumb. But serious.
The UConn/Illinois game is 40 points below the O/U with 3 to go.
Quote from: Jockey on March 30, 2024, 06:53:16 PM
We lost. Period.
This is all nonsense. I'm sure some of the posts were tongue-in-cheek, but I think some are actually serious.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 06:54:12 PM
Cmon. They're serious. Dumb. But serious.
You guys think someone has to be dumb to be suspicious that the balls in this tournament are overinflated? As Dish pointed out, we had historical anomolies vs the under/over in the Dallas games yesterday. Today the top two offenses in the NCAA are a combined 8 for 38 from three. There is precedent for this type of thing during the juiced ball MLB season+. I don't think this is tinfoil hat crap at all.
Updated to note that we had the coach of a #2 seed publicly complaining about the tight nets at the SLC venue - very reasonable to think that was also partially attributable to a ball overinflation issue.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 30, 2024, 07:10:21 PM
You guys think someone has to be dumb to be suspicious that the balls in this tournament are overinflated? As Dish pointed out, we had historical anomolies vs the under/over in the Dallas games yesterday. Today the top two offenses in the NCAA are a combined 8 for 38 from three. There is precedent for this type of thing during the juiced ball MLB season+. I don't think this is tinfoil hat crap at all.
It's complete tinfoil nonsense.
Quote from: Jockey on March 30, 2024, 06:53:16 PM
We lost. Period.
This is all nonsense. I'm sure some of the posts were tongue-in-cheek, but I think some are actually serious.
I don't think we lost because of the ball. Both teams had to play with it.
But you can't deny the evidence that something is effecting three point shooting across the tournament.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 07:14:39 PM
I don't think we lost because of the ball. Both teams had to play with it.
But you can't deny the evidence that something is effecting three point shooting across the tournament.
It's called defense.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 07:12:37 PM
It's complete tinfoil nonsense.
Probably the lead story on Fox News then
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 07:16:58 PM
Vegas apparently didn't see defense coming.
Yes. So obviously it's over inflation of basketballs. 🙄🙄🙄
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 07:17:45 PM
Yes. So obviously it's over inflation of basketballs. 🙄🙄🙄
You can see the balls take bounces that aren't normal.
When is the last time Vegas missed the O/U in three consecutive games all by over 25 points?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 07:15:12 PM
It's called defense.
Eye test says teams have been getting as many open 3s as normal, certainly we got enough. This isn't an excuse, it affects enjoyment of tournament games in general, not just ours.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 07:18:17 PM
You can see the balls take bounces that aren't normal.
lol. Sure.
Quote from: statnik on March 30, 2024, 07:20:39 PM
Eye test says teams have been getting as many open 3s as normal, certainly we got enough. This isn't an excuse, it affects enjoyment of tournament games in general, not just ours.
"Eye test..." 😂😂😂
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 07:12:37 PM
It's complete tinfoil nonsense.
I'd love to be as confident about anything as you are about most things, but players and coaches have been complaining about it, it would explain the three point shooting percentage drop, and we have unheard of point total disparities vs Vegas expectations. Reminds me a ton of the juiced baseball thing. To just broadly proclaim its stupid nonsense seems odd to me.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 30, 2024, 07:26:24 PM
I'd love to be as confident about anything as you are about most things, but players and coaches have been complaining about it, it would explain the three point shooting percentage drop, and we have unheard of point total disparities vs Vegas expectations. Reminds me a ton of the juiced baseball thing. To just broadly proclaim its stupid nonsense seems odd to me.
It's stupid.
MU lost because they didn't hit shots. Period.
Analytically, it wasn't NC State's defense that beat MU, MU beat MU with bad shooting.
There is something "off" with the inflation of the balls and tight rims at the regionals. Three straight games have gone 25+ points below their game total, with 5 top 21 KP teams in those games.
All of the above are true.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 07:14:39 PM
I don't think we lost because of the ball. Both teams had to play with it.
But you can't deny the evidence that something is effecting three point shooting across the tournament.
I can deny it.
Just put a dollar for the under. Boom.
It's not a new issue in the NCAA Tournament. From The Athletic on last year's tournament:
"They need to take some air out of the ball. It's too much and I think everyone's shot has been off lately. Everyone in the tournament," [Kateri] Poole said. "And I'm not trying to make excuses regardless, but throwing the ball off the backboard, it sounds like it's gonna pop."
But Poole said Sunday that the ball was so hard that it hurt LSU guard Flau'jae Johnson's finger and split one of Morris' nails. Asked about Johnson's finger, an LSU media relations staffer deferred to one of the Tigers' student athletic trainers. The trainer said she was not authorized to speak about potential injuries. An NCAA spokesperson also declined comment about LSU's claims.
Anecdotal nonsense.
Sportico:
"Yeah, I just feel like sometimes the balls are just a little too bouncy," Alabama guard Jahvon Quinerly said earlier this week. "I don't think it's affected me personally this tournament, but, you know, it's been something that the guys talk about in the locker room."
AP:
After last weekend's first and second-round games were plagued by low shooting percentages from 3-point range, murmurs began about whether slick or excessively inflated basketballs may have been the culprit. Even the tourney's top overall seed, Alabama, has been airing it out inside the locker room during March Madness.
"We've kind of had the discussion as a staff," Crimson Tide coach Nate Oats said Thursday. "You can pump up any ball to be too hard. It would be great if the referees actually made sure it was within the guidelines of how hard it's supposed to be because, obviously, if you pump it up to where it's a rock, you're not going to shoot as well."
Alabama/Clemson start:
Boink...doink...clank...doof
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 07:59:55 PM
Sportico:
"Yeah, I just feel like sometimes the balls are just a little too bouncy," Alabama guard Jahvon Quinerly said earlier this week. "I don't think it's affected me personally this tournament, but, you know, it's been something that the guys talk about in the locker room."
AP:
After last weekend's first and second-round games were plagued by low shooting percentages from 3-point range, murmurs began about whether slick or excessively inflated basketballs may have been the culprit. Even the tourney's top overall seed, Alabama, has been airing it out inside the locker room during March Madness.
"We've kind of had the discussion as a staff," Crimson Tide coach Nate Oats said Thursday. "You can pump up any ball to be too hard. It would be great if the referees actually made sure it was within the guidelines of how hard it's supposed to be because, obviously, if you pump it up to where it's a rock, you're not going to shoot as well."
More anecdotal nonsense.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 30, 2024, 08:00:05 PM
Alabama/Clemson start:
Boink...doink...clank...doof
And then they hit shots.
Really a lot of tinfoil being passed around this evening.
It's stupid to play with a ball that nobody plays with throughout the entire season that is very different from what everyone uses. Simple as that. How we don't have a single ball throughout basketball is crazy.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:02:57 PM
And then they hit shots.
Really a lot of tinfoil being passed around this evening.
Haha I don't care if it's true or not. Bottom line is we lost fair and square. I'd be interested in the Vegas O/U vs KenPom predicted score (assuming they are usually aligned). Would be interested to see if Vegas shows any anomaly in the future spreads for the tournament.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 07:57:41 PM
Anecdotal nonsense.
Your explanation for good shooters across the tournament consistently missing wide open shots is defense.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 08:12:16 PM
Your explanation for good shooters across the tournament consistently missing wide open shots is defense.
And yours is anecdotal nonsense.
Is it a fact that there is not a uniform ball for this tournament? Excuse my ignorance and ty.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 30, 2024, 08:16:16 PM
Is it a fact that there is not a uniform ball for this tournament? Excuse my ignorance and ty.
It's one that most schools don't use. And people think is inflated beyond what the rules allow. Which is nonsense.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 30, 2024, 08:16:16 PM
Is it a fact that there is not a uniform ball for this tournament? Excuse my ignorance and ty.
They use the same ball in every Tournament game. It is completely different from the Nike ball that all of the Nike schools (most D1 college basketball programs) use. Wisconsin has always used some weird company's ball. Under Armor schools will use an Under Armor ball. I'd assume Adidas uses an Adidas ball. Almost nobody uses the Wilson ball that is used in the Tournament.
I don't know why there isn't a single ball used in all D1 games. Well, I do. Money. But it's crazy.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:15:38 PM
And yours is anecdotal nonsense.
UConn/Illinois just finished 29 below the Vegas O/U.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 30, 2024, 08:19:15 PM
They use the same ball in every Tournament game. It is completely different from the Nike ball that all of the Nike schools (most D1 college basketball programs) use. Wisconsin has always used some weird company's ball. Under Armor schools will use an Under Armor ball. I'd assume Adidas uses an Adidas ball. Almost nobody uses the Wilson ball that is used in the Tournament.
I don't know why there isn't a single ball used in all D1 games. Well, I do. Money. But it's crazy.
Thanks for the background wades. Your 100% right, that's insanity.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 08:22:42 PM
UConn/Illinois just finished 29 below the Vegas O/U.
Not sure why that's relevant, but cool.
4 for 22 combined 3 point shooting in Alabama vs Clemson right now.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 08:31:28 PM
4 for 22 combined 3 point shooting in Alabama vs Clemson right now.
Defense has been great. Letting them play. Probably too much.
But that's what I get for watching a lot of basketball and not entertaining the crowd as a mascot.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:02:57 PM
And then they hit shots.
Really a lot of tinfoil being passed around this evening.
You're off on this one. The balls are overinflated. It's impacting play.
But it's not an excuse. The teams are playing with the same ball. Win anyways.
I don't think it disproportionately impacts Marquette and it's certainly not the reason we lost, but there's enough out there to show there are some real differences with the ball.
Quote from: BM1090 on March 30, 2024, 08:39:10 PM
You're off on this one. The balls are overinflated. It's impacting play.
Nope. Positive they are within what the rules allow.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:38:38 PM
Defense has been great. Letting them play. Probably too much.
But that's what I get for watching a lot of basketball and not entertaining the crowd as a mascot.
(https://y.yarn.co/d6153551-4d87-4fa1-83c5-557383dd5e85_text.gif)
Titans not the most knowledgeable basketball poster here. It's getting ridiculous so I'm trying to find a reason.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:40:32 PM
Nope. Positive they are within what the rules allow.
Without question. I agree with wadesworld point. The ball they are using for the tournament? Just use it for every game. Simple. End of discussion.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:40:32 PM
Nope. Positive they are within what the rules allow.
Wilson manufactures the ball at their "Grassy Knoll" facility.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:38:38 PM
Defense has been great. Letting them play. Probably too much.
But that's what I get for watching a lot of basketball and not entertaining the crowd as a mascot.
Defense doesn't explain the open shots that are being missed.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 30, 2024, 08:47:07 PM
Without question. I agree with wadesworld point. The ball they are using for the tournament? Just use it for every game. Simple. End of discussion.
The NCAA either won't or can't do that, but I would agree.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 08:48:09 PM
Defense doesn't explain the open shots that are being missed.
Clearly it's UFOs
I had not known that the tournament balls are completely different. On the surface that does seem odd to me.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:48:51 PM
The NCAA either won't or can't do that, but I would agree.
Why would you agree if you think the ball isn't effecting play?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 30, 2024, 08:51:28 PM
Why would you agree if you think the ball isn't effecting play?
*affecting
I just think the balls should be uniform. But they aren't over inflated.
Or maybe it's at Wilson's other facility at "Area 51".
Wilson needs to be cast away.
Quote from: tower912 on March 30, 2024, 08:58:22 PM
Wilson needs to be cast away.
To their "Bermuda Triangle Island" plant.
They went back to the old balls at halftime.
No idea the reason, but Marquette didn't go 1/10 on unguarded threes because of defense. Unguarded means the defense wasn't a factor.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 30, 2024, 08:17:36 PM
It's one that most schools don't use. And people think is inflated beyond what the rules allow. Which is nonsense.
There can be multiple things going on, that don't require the ball to be inflated beyond what the rules allow. There have been complaints of this particular ball for years, by players.
It is made of different material, that feels, and apparently bounces different, especially when brand new. Players using it, say the new balls feel more like a rubber ball, than the leather balls they used to.
This has been "supposedly" an issue last year and this year.
Who knows if it is really impacting the games, but it is absurd that there isn't a standard ball for all of the NCAA.
Quote from: forgetful on March 30, 2024, 11:07:21 PM
There can be multiple things going on, that don't require the ball to be inflated beyond what the rules allow. There have been complaints of this particular ball for years, by players.
It is made of different material, that feels, and apparently bounces different, especially when brand new. Players using it, say the new balls feel more like a rubber ball, than the leather balls they used to.
This has been "supposedly" an issue last year and this year.
Who knows if it is really impacting the games, but it is absurd that there isn't a standard ball for all of the NCAA.
So the ball isn't over-inflated.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 31, 2024, 06:05:52 AM
So the ball isn't over-inflated.
No one here can know for sure, but many of us have suspicions based on how the ball has reacted and a shooting coach thinking it's the case.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 30, 2024, 08:51:14 PM
I had not known that the tournament balls are completely different. On the surface that does seem odd to me.
Every school could use this ball - and perhaps should - for every (home) game of the season. It's their option. Seems like it would be wise. A better option than complaining.
Why did Al McGuire not want to play N.D.?
1. The gate. N.D. had mostly student tickets, M.U. had its Milwaukee or Chicago following of full price tickets. N.D. then wanted the majority of the gate, because they said, the N.D, name was a big draw.
2. The ball they used. I think it was Spalding, everyone else played Rawlings.
In my day, granted a long, long time ago, we played games with a ball used in practice, an old ball.
Question? What ball is used in practice?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 31, 2024, 06:05:52 AM
So the ball isn't over-inflated.
l'll concede that I don't know enough about ball manufacturing to say this is "illegally overinflated" vs "manufactured using materials and in a way that when inflated correctly, it behaves the same way other balls behave when they are overinflated." If that's what where this lands, it seems like a purely semantic victory, especially evolving from "you guys are dumb, the defenses are great" - but fine.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 31, 2024, 08:15:18 AM
Every school could use this ball - and perhaps should - for every (home) game of the season. It's their option. Seems like it would be wise. A better option than complaining.
I get the sentiment, but from a game enjoyment standpoint, no thanks. The "Marquette fans are complaining about the ball becuase they're butthurt about losing" straw man has been tossed around a bunch in this thread for some reason. But for me the only place that factors in was that I was sufficiently bummed that I wasn't planning on watching much of the Elite 8. But I tuned into IL-UConn yesterday because it was the two teams I've watched most after MU and because I wanted to see two of the top offenses and the third leading scorer in CBB match up. What I got looked like a middle school game where one team has a kid that has 6 in and 30 lbs on everyone else. And that's against a team that played Zach Edey reasonably competitively twice already this year. There's enough smoke around this crappy ball performing like one from a carnival game that I want to see it as little as possible.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 31, 2024, 09:42:46 AM
l'll concede that I don't know enough about ball manufacturing to say this is "illegally overinflated" vs "manufactured using materials and in a way that when inflated correctly, it behaves the same way other balls behave when they are overinflated." If that's what where this lands, it seems like a purely semantic victory, especially evolving from "you guys are dumb, the defenses are great" - but fine.
Agree with this. It might not be over-inflated but something with the ball is giving it more bounce than normal.
One of MU player's parents mentioned before the game there was a problem with the ball (didn't say what) and the AA had very tight rims, fwiw.
Unless NC State somehow used a different ball ... who cares?
This comes off as pathetic whining.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2024, 10:42:49 AM
Unless NC State somehow used a different ball ... who cares?
This comes off as pathetic whining.
This has nothing to do with the Marquette game. Everyone here has said it's not why Marquette lost. All teams are using the same ball.
The point is it makes for worse basketball in the tournament.
All this reminds me of Al who used to dribble around the floors pregame to find dead spots in the old away band boxes like the Chicago Amphitheater. He would direct his players to avoid those spots offensively while trying to steer opponents there defensively. I remember him also saying he'd go to the rack and pick out the best game ball based on feel (I think visitors were allowed to choose the game balls back then). He'd also install new nets at home when playing fast paced teams. And then there was the famous time out vs. UNCC where he went out on the floor to perform geometry on the Atlanta Omni scoreboard.
Thank you for adding to the story.
I asked a player back in the day why they played a "dirty" old dark ball in the games. He shrugged his shoulders and said, I don't know, coach picks out the ball.
Where there is smoke there is usually, not always, fire.
This has nothing to do with losing, both teams play with the same ball, same nets, same floor. We lost, it happens.
Numbers don't lie, the ratios are the ratios, the statistics are what they are.
Hypothetically speaking, IF you play a team that shoots a lot of threes and you clog the lanes would there be an advantage to have rims and balls that disfavor the 3 point shooting team?
There is a lot more geometry, physics, chemistry, durometer, feel, and strategy here than I understand. To me, I may be different, it is interesting. Furthermore, the subject has a long history.
I have been off scoop for five years, perhaps I should take another sabbatical?
I'm absolutely shocked and stunned the NCAA messed up the 3 point line distance in Portland.
Probably a non-story though.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 31, 2024, 03:38:48 PM
I'm absolutely shocked and stunned the NCAA messed up the 3 point line distance in Portland.
Probably a non-story though.
https://x.com/rodger/status/1774534589186215983?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 31, 2024, 03:38:48 PM
I'm absolutely shocked and stunned the NCAA messed up the 3 point line distance in Portland.
Probably a non-story though.
Just great defense.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 31, 2024, 06:07:38 PM
Women play defense too.
They block nearly 100% of dunk attempts
Also think it's incredibly stupid to play 40 games in basketball arenas and then the 3 biggest games of the year move into a giant football stadium. Money talks. But it's still dumb.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 01, 2024, 09:50:03 AM
Also think it's incredibly stupid to play 40 games in basketball arenas and then the 3 biggest games of the year move into a giant football stadium. Money talks. But it's still dumb.
Hah, other than your very homer math, agree.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 09:52:06 AM
Hah, other than your very homer math, agree.
Haha sorry. 38 games prior to the Final Four (UCONN is 35-3). Then they play two Final Four games in a football stadium.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 01, 2024, 09:54:36 AM
Haha sorry. 38 games prior to the Final Four (UCONN is 35-3). Then they play two Final Four games in a football stadium.
In 2003 Marquette played the S16 and E8 games in a football stadium...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 09:58:15 AM
In 2003 Marquette played the S16 and E8 games in a football stadium...
First two rounds as well.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 01, 2024, 10:05:29 AM
First two rounds as well.
Right. I didn't attend the Indy games. Had a preplanned trip (I know, bad planning) for the final four. My friends called heckling me from Bourbon St.
Karaban thinks the balls are inflated as well: https://twitter.com/BobbyPfor3/status/1774637584750161971
Quote from: MUbiz on April 01, 2024, 11:01:05 AM
Karaban thinks the balls are inflated as well
Who can argue with that! I think we'd all recognize a flat ball ;D
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 11:03:16 AM
Who can argue with that! I think we'd all recognize a flat ball ;D
:D Overinflated - my bad!
Karaban has had some spectacularly good shooting streaks this year. And some spectacularly bad streaks. Prior to the NCAA tournament.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8n_nfDQBRU
From (I assume) someone at Wilson himself. I don't know exactly what "rebalancing the air" so that you can "shoot from further" means. But seems like the ball travels further, which would explain missing shots long if you are used to playing with a different ball. Missing long also goes to feeling "lighter" like a lot of people say about the ball.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 01, 2024, 11:18:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8n_nfDQBRU
From (I assume) someone at Wilson himself. I don't know exactly what "rebalancing the air" so that you can "shoot from further" means. But seems like the ball travels further, which would explain missing shots long if you are used to playing with a different ball. Missing long also goes to feeling "lighter" like a lot of people say about the ball.
Why does the NCAA hate peach baskets!?!?!
I do think this just points to the silliness of playing with different balls at different arenas. I get that some things like sight lines are going to vary, having standardized equipment shouldn't be an issue. Pick one ball, make it the official ball of NCAA Men's Basketball, and have an acceptable inflation point for said ball so everyone is using the same thing all year long.
Whether this really contributes to the issue or not, it would be irrelevant if everyone used the same ball under the same circumstances from November through April.
Section 16. The Ball
Art. 1. The ball shall be spherical. Spherical shall be defined as a round body
whose surface at all points is equidistant from the center, except at the approved
black rubber ribs (channels and/or seams).
Art. 2. The ball's color shall be Pantone Matching System (PMS) Orange 151,
Red-Orange 173 or Brown 1535.
Art. 3. The cover of the ball shall be leather, or a composite material, and shall
consist of tiny raised protrusions densely spaced over the entire surface of each
panel so as to form a pebbled appearance.
Art. 4. The ball shall have the traditionally shaped eight panels, bonded tightly
to the rubber carcass. The eight panels are defined by two channels and/or seams
dissecting the ball's circumference in opposite directions and two panels that,
when laid flat, shall have the shape of a figure eight.
Art. 5. The width of the black rubber rib (channels and/or seams) shall not
exceed 1/4 inch.
Art. 6. When dribbled vertically, without rotation, the ball shall return directly
to the dribbler's hand. Small electronic chips/devices are permitted to be affixed
inside the ball as long as there is no perceptible effect on the ball when dribbled,
passed or shot.
Art. 7. The ball shall be inflated to an air pressure such that when it is dropped
to the playing surface from a height of 6 feet, measured to the bottom of the
ball, it will rebound to a height, measured to the top of the ball, of not less than
49 inches when it strikes its least resilient spot, nor more than 54 inches when it
strikes its most resilient spot. The air pressure that will give the required reaction
shall be stamped on the ball.
Art. 8. The circumference of the ball shall be within a maximum of 30 inches
and a minimum of 29½ inches.
Art. 9. The weight of the ball shall not be less than 20 ounces nor more than
22 ounces.
Art. 10. The home team shall provide a ball that meets the specifications listed
in this section. The referee shall judge the legality of the ball and may select a
ball for use provided by the visiting team when the home team cannot provide
a legal ball.
Note: It is recommended that the home team provide the visiting team with warmup balls of the same type as the game ball.
Other issue could be that they're just too new. The NBA guidance for game balls is to be used in practice for weeks to break them in.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 11:38:52 AM
Note: It is recommended that the home team provide the visiting team with warmup balls of the same type as the game ball.
So in theory you could set out volleyballs for the other team to warmup with. It's only recommended to provide the same type of ball as the game ball...
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 01, 2024, 11:42:17 AM
So in theory you could set out volleyballs for the other team to warmup with. It's only recommended to provide the same type of ball as the game ball...
Yes. The specs are pretty well laid out, but kinda ridiculous that they allow for home court shenanigans.
Crazy to me the ball has to be between 20 and 22 ounces. That seems like a massive variation, especially for D1 athletes who develop muscle memory off the shot. The fact there is no PSI standard is also crazy to me, but that plays into the weight of the ball.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 11:38:52 AM
Art. 7. The ball shall be inflated to an air pressure such that when it is dropped
to the playing surface from a height of 6 feet, measured to the bottom of the
ball, it will rebound to a height, measured to the top of the ball, of not less than
49 inches when it strikes its least resilient spot, nor more than 54 inches when it
strikes its most resilient spot. The air pressure that will give the required reaction
shall be stamped on the ball.
I'd like to see this test done between a tournament ball and the various balls used during the season.
It may just be the different ball itself or the lack of breaking in as others have noted (and not over-inflation), but the ball appears more bouncy.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 01, 2024, 09:58:15 AM
In 2003 Marquette played the S16 and E8 games in a football stadium...
If by football stadium, you mean glorious, multi-use stadium.
I'm sure Val Ackerman is all over this and has already read the NCAA the riot act regarding the balls
https://twitter.com/BobbyPfor3/status/1775365677227892887
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 01, 2024, 11:30:42 AM
I do think this just points to the silliness of playing with different balls at different arenas. I get that some things like sight lines are going to vary, having standardized equipment shouldn't be an issue. Pick one ball, make it the official ball of NCAA Men's Basketball, and have an acceptable inflation point for said ball so everyone is using the same thing all year long.
Whether this really contributes to the issue or not, it would be irrelevant if everyone used the same ball under the same circumstances from November through April.
This. Obviously.
Such a "duh," it's easy to see why the NCAA and its member institutions eff this up, too.
Quote from: MU82 on April 03, 2024, 10:21:22 AM
This. Obviously.
Such a "duh," it's easy to see why the NCAA and its member institutions eff this up, too.
I believe the NCAA doesn't do this with any equipment in any sport. They set standards and allow the schools to select equipment to those standards. This is why you see "ball boys" on both sidelines for each team because they are each using their own balls on offense.
So this would be a step that the organization hasn't taken in the past, and honestly I don't think the members would have any interest in persuing.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 10:28:13 AM
I believe the NCAA doesn't do this with any equipment in any sport. They set standards and allow the schools to select equipment to those standards. This is why you see "ball boys" on both sidelines for each team because they are each using their own balls on offense.
So this would be a step that the organization hasn't taken in the past, and honestly I don't think the members would have any interest in persuing.
My opinion (and brew's) is that they should have an interest in pursuing it. It seems like an obvious thing to do to level the playing field.
Others are allowed their own opinions, of course, and ultimately the only opinions that matter are those of NCAA poobahs.
Quote from: HansMoleman on April 03, 2024, 10:13:21 AM
https://twitter.com/BobbyPfor3/status/1775365677227892887
Several players all missing way long.
And for the crowd who thinks this is excuse making for Marquette, it's entirely possible the ball helped us to the Sweet Sixteen.
Colorado is a great three point shooting team and had a terrible first half from deep.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 03, 2024, 10:54:13 AM
And for the crowd who thinks this is excuse making for Marquette, it's entirely possible the ball helped us to the Sweet Sixteen.
Colorado is a great three point shooting team and had a terrible first half from deep.
If you come across 3pt % for this tournament, vs previous tournaments I'd love to see them (a quick search yielded nothing)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 03, 2024, 10:58:18 AM
If you come across 3pt % for this tournament, vs previous tournaments I'd love to see them (a quick search yielded nothing)
Or from 3 tournaments ago (when they were still using the previous ball). Or the Tournament 3 point shooting compared to the regular season 3 point shooting of Tourney teams.
None of those stats would matter to me. To me, it's simply common sense to use the same ball for every game in every arena.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2024, 11:03:07 AM
Or the Tournament 3 point shooting compared to the regular season 3 point shooting of Tourney teams.
That's a valid comparison, but I think only if you also do that for other years. My "gut" is that I've usually seen more misses in the tournament, and if my gut is right, it's probably due to win or go home nerves. Again, would love to see the #s.
Quote from: MU82 on April 03, 2024, 11:05:15 AM
None of those stats would matter to me. To me, it's simply common sense to use the same ball for every game in every arena.
In that case, it's also common sense to play all the games in identical arenas. Teams aren't allowed to have unique buildings.
Probably also common sense not to allow fans. They lead to one team having an advantage over another.
And common sense for all players to have uniform heights and weights. Wouldn't want any nonsense going on with someone having a physical advantage.
I'm probably missing some other "common sense" changes.
Quote from: MU82 on April 03, 2024, 10:35:51 AM
My opinion (and brew's) is that they should have an interest in pursuing it. It seems like an obvious thing to do to level the playing field.
Others are allowed their own opinions, of course, and ultimately the only opinions that matter are those of NCAA poobahs.
What they should do is announce prior to the year beginning what ball they will be using. Then let the schools do with that information what they wish.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 11:16:15 AM
What they should do is announce prior to the year beginning what ball they will be using. Then let the schools do with that information what they wish.
Makes sense to me. Nike schools could still honor their contract and play with a Nike ball, but you could still get practice time with the tourney ball all season.
Quote from: Warrior Code on April 03, 2024, 12:15:26 PM
Makes sense to me. Nike schools could still honor their contract and play with a Nike ball, but you could still get practice time with the tourney ball all season.
That's a bad idea. Muscle memory. It would mess up your mechanics switching balls during practice time.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 11:16:15 AM
What they should do is announce prior to the year beginning what ball they will be using. Then let the schools do with that information what they wish.
Agree with this.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 03, 2024, 01:20:17 PM
That's a bad idea. Muscle memory. It would mess up your mechanics switching balls during practice time.
More than abruptly switching up at the end of the year? You could practice with the Wilson ball one day a week, or just for certain drills, etc. However the coach wanted to do it so it wouldn't be as big of a shock come tourney time.
Y'all realize that when teams play on the road, they are oftentimes using a different ball than the one they play with at home right? I think we are acting like there is an enormous difference between different types of basketballs, but in reality the difference isn't that great.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 01:39:11 PM
Y'all realize that when teams play on the road, they are oftentimes using a different ball than the one they play with at home right? I think we are acting like there is an enormous difference between different types of basketballs, but in reality the difference isn't that great.
You sure about that? Whats a team's winning percentage on the road using a different ball versus home? To be honest, I couldn't care less, but it's the offseason.
Didn't Bo use Sterling balls because they sponsored him at Platteville? And then MU practiced the week before the UW game with the Sterling balls because they were so different?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 03, 2024, 11:05:27 AM
That's a valid comparison, but I think only if you also do that for other years. My "gut" is that I've usually seen more misses in the tournament, and if my gut is right, it's probably due to win or go home nerves. Again, would love to see the #s.
Or, you know, voodoo.
Obviously.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 01:39:11 PM
Y'all realize that when teams play on the road, they are oftentimes using a different ball than the one they play with at home right? I think we are acting like there is an enormous difference between different types of basketballs, but in reality the difference isn't that great.
The point is that if you standardize that, you eliminate this conspiracy theory altogether. Don't say "we're going to use this", say "this is the ball we're all using."
Quite simply, when you can streamline processes to avoid stupidity, that should be done, because the alternative is a bunch of different people all choosing how to do stupid things and then pointing fingers everywhere but at themselves when said stupidity has consequences.
The balls are standardized brew. The brand they use isn't standardized however.
And again the answer is simple. The NCAA can announce what ball they are using this summer long before practices even start. Then the institutions can decide if they want to roll with that ball throughout the year, or go with whatever ball they have used prior or is dictated by whatever contract is in place.
No mandates from an organization that can't really mandate anything these days, and no whining from message boards afterwards because their team went 4/31 from deep.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 03:28:58 PMThe balls are standardized brew. The brand they use isn't standardized however.
You're splitting hairs to try to defend the point. It's simple. Wilson is the official ball of the NCAA. It's what all our member teams use. Or Spalding, or Franklin, or whoever will donate the balls for free while giving the NCAA the most money for the advertising opportunity they get to have their balls on every game.
FFS, we have an official ladder brand of the NCAA to cut nets. This isn't something that would be difficult or controversial, and frankly it's idiotic that it's even a point that can be debated.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2024, 03:34:41 PM
You're splitting hairs to try to defend the point. It's simple. Wilson is the official ball of the NCAA. It's what all our member teams use. Or Spalding, or Franklin, or whoever will donate the balls for free while giving the NCAA the most money for the advertising opportunity they get to have their balls on every game.
FFS, we have an official ladder brand of the NCAA to cut nets. This isn't something that would be difficult or controversial, and frankly it's idiotic that it's even a point that can be debated.
Right. The NCAA dictates what ladders they use to cut nets
at the tournament! The NCAA doesn't dictate what ladders the Big East uses when teams cut down nets at the BET or an individual team uses to cut down nets for whatever reason during the season.
The NCAA has, to my understanding, NEVER dictated what brand of equipment should be used during the non-championship season. Footballs, baseballs, basketballs, uniforms, etc. have all been left up to the individual schools.
And to be honest, I'm not sure they *can* dictate what each of the member schools use without requiring those schools to amend or break existing agreements already in place.
But all of the sudden, Marquette goes 4/31, and its its a no-brainer that the NCAA should do something it has never done prior, and may not actually have the power to do anyway.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 03:49:48 PM
But all of the sudden, Marquette goes 4/31, and its its a no-brainer that the NCAA should do something it has never done prior, and may not actually have the power to do anyway.
This has been a problem back to at least last year if not sooner.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 03, 2024, 03:57:16 PM
This has been a problem back to at least last year if not sooner.
I'm sure since it was discussed so much around here last year.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 04:00:54 PM
I'm sure since it was discussed so much around here last year.
From The Athletic on last year's tournament:
"They need to take some air out of the ball. It's too much and I think everyone's shot has been off lately. Everyone in the tournament," [Kateri] Poole said. "And I'm not trying to make excuses regardless, but throwing the ball off the backboard, it sounds like it's gonna pop."
But Poole said Sunday that the ball was so hard that it hurt LSU guard Flau'jae Johnson's finger and split one of Morris' nails. Asked about Johnson's finger, an LSU media relations staffer deferred to one of the Tigers' student athletic trainers. The trainer said she was not authorized to speak about potential injuries. An NCAA spokesperson also declined comment about LSU's claims.
I said "around here." I don't recall this being such an outrage on Scoop until Marquette shot poorly. Usually the Scoop collective blames the refs, but I guess this time its the balls.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 03:49:48 PMBut all of the sudden, Marquette goes 4/31, and its its a no-brainer that the NCAA should do something it has never done prior, and may not actually have the power to do anyway.
At no point have I mentioned 4/31, nor do I find it at all central to the discussion at hand.
Whether it's Marquette, or Duke, or LSU, or whomever, going to one ball year-round across the sport would take the talking point away. The only reason you're debating it is because they haven't created an equipment standard. I don't blame a ball, or overinflation, or whatever. We had a crap game. But the mere existence of this talking point is stupid and something that could be pretty easily addressed.
And as the original debate began with a video posted before the tournament even started, it's clearly not a new issue.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 04:09:12 PM
I said "around here." I don't recall this being such an outrage on Scoop until Marquette shot poorly. Usually the Scoop collective blames the refs, but I guess this time its the balls.
You do realize it may have helped Marquette as well? Colorado is a much better three point shooting team and couldn't make anything in the first half against us.
This isn't some conspiracy against only Marquette. It hurts all teams and makes for lower quality basketball.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2024, 04:14:56 PM
At no point have I mentioned 4/31, nor do I find it at all central to the discussion at hand.
Whether it's Marquette, or Duke, or LSU, or whomever, going to one ball year-round across the sport would take the talking point away. The only reason you're debating it is because they haven't created an equipment standard. I don't blame a ball, or overinflation, or whatever. We had a crap game. But the mere existence of this talking point is stupid and something that could be pretty easily addressed.
And as the original debate began with a video posted before the tournament even started, it's clearly not a new issue.
The bolded is false. The equipment standard is laid out in the NCAA rulebook.
Section 16. The Ball
Art. 1. The ball shall be spherical. Spherical shall be defined as a round body
whose surface at all points is equidistant from the center, except at the approved
black rubber ribs (channels and/or seams).
Art. 2. The ball's color shall be Pantone Matching System (PMS) Orange 151,
Red-Orange 173 or Brown 1535.
Art. 3. The cover of the ball shall be leather, or a composite material, and shall
consist of tiny raised protrusions densely spaced over the entire surface of each
panel so as to form a pebbled appearance.
Art. 4. The ball shall have the traditionally shaped eight panels, bonded tightly
to the rubber carcass. The eight panels are defined by two channels and/or seams
dissecting the ball's circumference in opposite directions and two panels that,
when laid flat, shall have the shape of a figure eight.
Art. 5. The width of the black rubber rib (channels and/or seams) shall not
exceed 1/4 inch.
Art. 6. When dribbled vertically, without rotation, the ball shall return directly
to the dribbler's hand. Small electronic chips/devices are permitted to be affixed
inside the ball as long as there is no perceptible effect on the ball when dribbled,
passed or shot.
Art. 7. The ball shall be inflated to an air pressure such that when it is dropped
to the playing surface from a height of 6 feet, measured to the bottom of the
ball, it will rebound to a height, measured to the top of the ball, of not less than
49 inches when it strikes its least resilient spot, nor more than 54 inches when it
strikes its most resilient spot. The air pressure that will give the required reaction
shall be stamped on the ball.
Art. 8. The circumference of the ball shall be within a maximum of 30 inches
and a minimum of 29½ inches.
Art. 9. The weight of the ball shall not be less than 20 ounces nor more than
22 ounces.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
The bolded is false. The equipment standard is laid out in the NCAA rulebook.
Right... 8-)
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=66063.msg1648385#msg1648385
I know I was pretty sarcastic with my "common sense" reply earlier. But common sense is the NCAA would love it if everyone used the same ball. The member institutions instead wanted to make a more general specification for what the ball should be so that they could say they were compliant. And that's common sense we're at.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 03, 2024, 04:04:27 PM
From The Athletic on last year's tournament:
"They need to take some air out of the ball. It's too much and I think everyone's shot has been off lately. "
Again...covered by the specifications.
Art. 7. The ball shall be inflated to an air pressure such that when it is dropped
to the playing surface from a height of 6 feet, measured to the bottom of the
ball, it will rebound to a height, measured to the top of the ball, of not less than
49 inches when it strikes its least resilient spot, nor more than 54 inches when it
strikes its most resilient spot. The air pressure that will give the required reaction
shall be stamped on the ball.
I understand that's what the standard says but just watching the games the ball appears extra bouncy.
Dribbles higher than normal, rebounds kicking out farther and faster. I think I saw more balls bounce over the backboard in the tournament than I did all season.
I know, I know, anecdotal tin-foil nonsense.
I doubt much changes as it all comes down to money. MU isn't changing from Nike and I'm sure the NCAA has a nice deal with Wilson to use the ball.
The variation in ball performance during the most important games of the college basketball season is a (small) stain on the game. Get it fixed. This should be in the vested interest of every competitive program. I don't particularly care whether it's the NCAA, conferences, or schools themselves that need to act.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
The bolded is false. The equipment standard is laid out in the NCAA rulebook.
No it's not. You've read enough of my posts and are just feigning ignorance. Everyone plays with the same ball. Period. That's what I mean, you know it, and you're trying to obfuscate.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2024, 05:41:48 PM
No it's not. You've read enough of my posts and are just feigning ignorance. Everyone plays with the same ball. Period. That's what I mean, you know it, and you're trying to obfuscate.
You want them to play with the same brand of ball. That's not going to happen because the schools don't want it to happen. Or they don't think its that big of a deal.
So I don't know why WE think its that big of a deal. There is zero evidence that it actually makes a difference anyway.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 06:18:29 PM
You want them to play with the same brand of ball. That's not going to happen because the schools don't want it to happen. Or they don't think its that big of a deal.
So I don't know why WE think its that big of a deal. There is zero evidence that it actually makes a difference anyway.
Why the hostility Fluffy?
As mentioned earlier, maybe it's as simple as having the tournament teams practice with the tournament ball during Madness and then only use balls in the game that have been used for a week in practice ala the NBA.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 06:18:29 PM
You want them to play with the same brand of ball. That's not going to happen because the schools don't want it to happen. Or they don't think its that big of a deal.
So I don't know why WE think its that big of a deal. There is zero evidence that it actually makes a difference anyway.
Which schools have come out to say they are so ardently against it? I assume you can support that with more than just your assumption that because they haven't pushed for it in the past it actually matters significantly to them? I've seen even less commentary from the schools regarding that than I have on the controversy (valid or not).
And there is just as much evidence that it doesn't matter than that it does. So unless you have the supporting evidence (and not just "well they didn't do it yet") there's really no argument against one official NCAA ball that I can see. Certainly none that has been cogently made here.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2024, 08:17:14 PM
Which schools have come out to say they are so ardently against it? I assume you can support that with more than just your assumption that because they haven't pushed for it in the past it actually matters significantly to them? I've seen even less commentary from the schools regarding that than I have on the controversy (valid or not).
And there is just as much evidence that it doesn't matter than that it does. So unless you have the supporting evidence (and not just "well they didn't do it yet") there's really no argument against one official NCAA ball that I can see. Certainly none that has been cogently made here.
I trust your expertise Brew.
Schools play with the balls that they have sponsorships with. The answer is always money.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2024, 08:21:57 PM
Schools play with the balls that they have sponsorships with. The answer is always money.
Bingo. If schools actually cared about this, they would simply use the NCAA ball. The fact that they don't shows that it's really not that big of a deal.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 03, 2024, 08:26:52 PM
Bingo. If schools actually cared about this, they would simply use the NCAA ball. The fact that they don't shows that it's really not that big of a deal.
NBA coaches used to try to manipulate the ball pressure to favor their style of play. NBA teams season game balls in practice (so they handle properly), then at a game inflate them to their desired pressure (between 7.5-8.5) that is validated by the officials. They do this, because it matters.
Coaches and players have complained about this ball every year it has been used in the NCAA tournament (since 2022).
When the NBA switched balls, Spalding to Wilson, they all took a while to adapt, and didn't like them at first. They outright protested the 2006 switch from a leather ball to a microfiber ball to the point that the NBA switched back. So saying the ball can't affect things defies what the actual professionals say.
Regarding the NCAA ball, Wilson does advertise that the technology of this ball makes it different.
"We recommend inflating the Evo NXT basketball to 7 PSI and the Evolution to 8 PSI for optimal performance."
Where to behave similar to the old balls, you should inflate them less. So if a tourney site inflates them all to 8 PSI as most other balls are, they will respond as if they are over-inflated even though they are within specs.
Wilson also says there is new technology that distributes the weight differently that affects shooting.
"The Evo NXT features Extended Range Tech. The super soft core allows for redistribution of the weight and balance of the ball, allowing players to shoot from longer range."
So according to Wilson, it is designed to affect shooting, so that when they adapt to it, it is easier to shoot from longer distances. It is reasonable to assume then, if you haven't adapted to it, you might overshoot at first (which has been seen).
So saying the ball can't affect things is naive. Not saying it is what caused the issues, but it would make a lot of sense to use the same ball everywhere, like all professional leagues do, so there is more consistent game play.
I wouldn't be shocked to see more teams switch to this ball when their contracts with other runs out. A lot of conference tournaments, and teams have already switched.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 03, 2024, 11:06:29 AM
In that case, it's also common sense to play all the games in identical arenas. Teams aren't allowed to have unique buildings.
Probably also common sense not to allow fans. They lead to one team having an advantage over another.
And common sense for all players to have uniform heights and weights. Wouldn't want any nonsense going on with someone having a physical advantage.
I'm probably missing some other "common sense" changes.
Well, that's all just silliness, but you're allowed.
Quote from: forgetful on April 03, 2024, 09:03:58 PM
NBA coaches used to try to manipulate the ball pressure to favor their style of play. NBA teams season game balls in practice (so they handle properly), then at a game inflate them to their desired pressure (between 7.5-8.5) that is validated by the officials. They do this, because it matters.
Coaches and players have complained about this ball every year it has been used in the NCAA tournament (since 2022).
When the NBA switched balls, Spalding to Wilson, they all took a while to adapt, and didn't like them at first. They outright protested the 2006 switch from a leather ball to a microfiber ball to the point that the NBA switched back. So saying the ball can't affect things defies what the actual professionals say.
Regarding the NCAA ball, Wilson does advertise that the technology of this ball makes it different.
"We recommend inflating the Evo NXT basketball to 7 PSI and the Evolution to 8 PSI for optimal performance."
Where to behave similar to the old balls, you should inflate them less. So if a tourney site inflates them all to 8 PSI as most other balls are, they will respond as if they are over-inflated even though they are within specs.
Wilson also says there is new technology that distributes the weight differently that affects shooting.
"The Evo NXT features Extended Range Tech. The super soft core allows for redistribution of the weight and balance of the ball, allowing players to shoot from longer range."
So according to Wilson, it is designed to affect shooting, so that when they adapt to it, it is easier to shoot from longer distances. It is reasonable to assume then, if you haven't adapted to it, you might overshoot at first (which has been seen).
So saying the ball can't affect things is naive. Not saying it is what caused the issues, but it would make a lot of sense to use the same ball everywhere, like all professional leagues do, so there is more consistent game play.
I wouldn't be shocked to see more teams switch to this ball when their contracts with other runs out. A lot of conference tournaments, and teams have already switched.
A lot of words to not really address what I said.