February 24, 2012
Twelve years ago today Buzz Williams (@TeamCoachBuzz) dances on the court to "Take Me Home, Country Roads" following #10
@MarquetteMBB rallying from a 15-point deficit to defeat West Virginia (@WVUhoops) 61-60 on February 24, 2012 #mubb
https://x.com/MUOverload/status/1761411826326073735?s=20
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/968975/buzz_medium.gif)
February 24, 2024
Got smoked at Tennessee by 35 points (86-51)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401597206/texas-am-tennessee
He is now 15-12 (6-8) and has lost four straight
* He bailed on MU in year six when he finished 17-15
* He bailed on VT in year five after losing in the S16, and the cupboard was bare
* He is currently in year five at Texas A&M
Quote from: Not A Serious Person on February 24, 2024, 10:17:42 PM
February 24, 2012
Twelve years ago today Buzz Williams (@TeamCoachBuzz) dances on the court to "Take Me Home, Country Roads" following #10
@MarquetteMBB rallying from a 15-point deficit to defeat West Virginia (@WVUhoops) 61-60 on February 24, 2012 #mubb
https://x.com/MUOverload/status/1761411826326073735?s=20
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/968975/buzz_medium.gif)
February 24, 2024
Got smoked at Tennessee by 35 points (86-51)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401597206/texas-am-tennessee
He is now 15-12 (6-8) and has lost four straight
* He bailed on MU in year six when he finished 17-15
* He bailed on VT in year five after losing in the S16, and the cupboard was bare
* He is currently in year five at Texas A&M
He won't be back Heisy.
I'm very happy seeing Buzz struggle at A&M. Hard to forgive him as I believe he had an agreement with VT before our season ended. Maybe just a conspiracy of mine, but I believe he threw that Xavier game in the BET. Zero explanation for benching Burton for the last 10 minutes when he was having a career day. One of those games that has always bothered me.
Superbar
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 24, 2024, 11:02:02 PM
I'm very happy seeing Buzz struggle at A&M. Hard to forgive him as I believe he had an agreement with VT before our season ended. Maybe just a conspiracy of mine, but I believe he threw that Xavier game in the BET. Zero explanation for benching Burton for the last 10 minutes when he was having a career day. One of those games that has always bothered me.
Or....Buzz famously didn't trust freshmen and didn't give them much playing time and went with his starters down the stretch in a win or go home game.
Like Crean, he had the most success at Marquette
Like Crean, just another ex that I have forgiven and moved on from.
Buzz crapped on Marquette and the Big East on his way out the door.
F--- 'em.
It is surprising am is far and away the least successful of his three stops so far.
Texas A&M has very little basketball tradition. And while the state of Texas has a lot of talent, most of it doesn't find its way to College Station, when you have a lot of D1 schools to choose from - Houston, Baylor, Texas, etc.
Even Buzz's success at VT wasn't long or sustained. It was a S16 run that was aided by facing a 12-seed in the second round.
Quote from: MochaJoe on February 25, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
It is surprising am is far and away the least successful of his three stops so far.
This was probably supposed to be the year they were a top-15 type team, too.
A ton of minutes returned from last year and a lot of upperclassmen on the roster.
Some misses in recruiting. Manny Obaseki was A&M's highest ever ranked recruit and he's been middling.
His recruiting hasn't been great there. Very curious what happens there. And Sultan makes a good point, state of Texas has some good coaches within its borders. Tough recruiting scene
F ! Buzz ...
MU gave him his chance. He did well
But also had off Ct issues.
Then he $hit on MU as he left. Hope he fails
Buzz is a good coach with a high floor, but likely not a high ceiling. Had a number of "WTF was that?" performances throughout his career.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 25, 2024, 08:28:18 AM
F ! Buzz ...
MU gave him his chance. He did well
But also had off Ct issues.
Then he $hit on MU as he left. Hope he fails
Well, when your employer quietly tells you to hit the road jack that is what disgruntled former employees do.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 25, 2024, 08:03:34 AM
Texas A&M has very little basketball tradition. And while the state of Texas has a lot of talent, most of it doesn't find its way to College Station, when you have a lot of D1 schools to choose from - Houston, Baylor, Texas, etc.
Even Buzz's success at VT wasn't long or sustained. It was a S16 run that was aided by facing a 12-seed in the second round.
The previous three head coaches at A&M (Kennedy, Turgeon, Gillespie) had eight NCAAT appearances from 2005 through 2019, along with three S16s. Outside of last season, Buzz has failed to make the tournament in each of his other seasons at A&M (not counting the COVID year). Still has zero NCAAT wins.
A&M is a football-first school, but they do put resources into basketball. With how much better the SEC has gotten in basketball, there's little reason why A&M cannot compete with the rest of the conference.
Buzz built VT for one cycle (his final S16 team was built around his first recruiting class). I don't think he ever planned on staying past the first cycle. His A&M tenure has been interesting. Something happened with McNeilly after first two seasons, leading him and some players to leave. This past off-season, he lost a majority of the team to graduation and transfer (although kept Taylor). Doesn't appear they have any impact freshmen coming in, so they'll need to heaviky lean into portal for reinforcements next year.
With a new AD soon coming on-board, I'd imagine Buzz will be on the hot seat next year. If he doesn't make the tournament, they would undoubtedly look at making a change.
https://www.on3.com/teams/tennessee-volunteers/news/tennessee-vols-basketball-texas-am-buzz-williams-press-conference-2/
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 24, 2024, 11:02:02 PM
I'm very happy seeing Buzz struggle at A&M. Hard to forgive him as I believe he had an agreement with VT before our season ended. Maybe just a conspiracy of mine, but I believe he threw that Xavier game in the BET. Zero explanation for benching Burton for the last 10 minutes when he was having a career day. One of those games that has always bothered me.
I called out this fraud in 2011. It was the most prescient commentary of my life. He's a bum. Don't forget, he bailed on New Orleans before doing the same to MU and VT.
Quote from: bradforster on February 25, 2024, 11:12:10 AM
I called out this fraud in 2011. It was the most prescient commentary of my life. He's a bum. Don't forget, he bailed on New Orleans before doing the same to MU and VT.
lol. You called him a bum cause you got too close to DJ Newbill.
Quote from: Not A Serious Person on February 24, 2024, 10:17:42 PM
February 24, 2012
Twelve years ago today Buzz Williams (@TeamCoachBuzz) dances on the court to "Take Me Home, Country Roads" following #10
@MarquetteMBB rallying from a 15-point deficit to defeat West Virginia (@WVUhoops) 61-60 on February 24, 2012 #mubb
https://x.com/MUOverload/status/1761411826326073735?s=20
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/968975/buzz_medium.gif)
February 24, 2024
Got smoked at Tennessee by 35 points (86-51)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401597206/texas-am-tennessee
He is now 15-12 (6-8) and has lost four straight
* He bailed on MU in year six when he finished 17-15
* He bailed on VT in year five after losing in the S16, and the cupboard was bare
* He is currently in year five at Texas A&M
#ShakaToA&M
With everything that's happened to the program since then, it's hard to believe this was only 12 years ago. Feels like a distant memory.
I do remember this as a "Buzz being Buzz" type of game — multiple players suspended for the first half in an act of self-righteousness and somehow managing to pull a win out of his a$$. IMO, this was also one of the games that cemented Crowder as a legit BE POY candidate.
Regardless of anyone's feelings toward Buzz, him dancing on WV's court after this win is a classic moment in MU fandom.
Quote from: Efficient Frontier on February 25, 2024, 12:00:33 PM
#ShakaToA&M
You joke, but we better buckle up for some Shaka rumors this off season. Way too many prime time, high paying, big time NIL programs will be open for him.
Quote from: MochaJoe on February 25, 2024, 12:23:38 PM
You joke, but we better buckle up for some Shaka rumors this off season. Way too many prime time, high paying, big time NIL programs will be open for him.
That's just the price of being a successful coach at a top 20-30 program. I am not super worried he's going to leave any time soon. I honestly wouldn't begin to worry until MU Leadership changes over because it seems he has a great working relationship with Lovell/Scholl.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 25, 2024, 12:27:01 PM
That's just the price of being a successful coach at a top 20-30 program. I am not super worried he's going to leave any time soon. I honestly wouldn't begin to worry until MU Leadership changes over because it seems he has a great working relationship with Lovell/Scholl.
Agreed -
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 25, 2024, 11:48:08 AM
lol. You called him a bum cause you got too close to DJ Newbill.
Sultan, I called him out because he pulled a kid's scholarship and left him hanging. It had nothing to do with getting close to anyone. It had everything to do with lack of honor and commitment.
Biggest Issue with Buzz squad this year is Wade Taylor is probably the worst player of the last 20 years that people claim to be good
Most laughable thing is hes on all the POINT GUARD lists.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 25, 2024, 01:08:30 PM
Biggest Issue with Buzz squad this year is Wade Taylor is probably the worst player of the last 20 years that people claim to be good
Most laughable thing is hes on all the POINT GUARD lists.
I could score 13 per game if I took 25 shots too lol
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 25, 2024, 01:08:30 PM
Biggest Issue with Buzz squad this year is Wade Taylor is probably the worst player of the last 20 years that people claim to be good
Most laughable thing is hes on all the POINT GUARD lists.
Lot of AJ Storr in his game
Quote from: bradforster on February 25, 2024, 11:12:10 AM
I called out this fraud in 2011. It was the most prescient commentary of my life. He's a bum. Don't forget, he bailed on New Orleans before doing the same to MU and VT.
A college coach moving to different jobs? No way!
Buzz's Marquette teams were a lot of fun to watch.
Always competitive.
When the second generation Big East broke up, Buzz moved on.
We could have done much, much worst.
So much for the past.
Nothing worth dwelling on.
Life is too short to worry about a half-baked, dime store hillbilly.
We are Marquette! We're back! Get used to it!
Quote from: tower912 on February 25, 2024, 06:43:13 AM
Like Crean, just another ex that I have forgiven and moved on from.
This.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 25, 2024, 02:27:03 PM
A college coach moving to different jobs? No way!
"I'll stay as long as they'll have me." Perhaps MU kicked him to the curb. Either way, I'm glad he's an hour up the road from me in Texas instead of roaming the sideline at Fiserv. Let this itinerant man travel wherever he wants to go.
Quote from: bradforster on February 25, 2024, 03:29:30 PM
"I'll stay as long as they'll have me." Perhaps MU kicked him to the curb. Either way, I'm glad he's an hour up the road from me in Texas instead of roaming the sideline at Fiserv. Let this itinerant man travel wherever he wants to go.
Do you really think any college coach ever is going to go to the press and say, "Yeah, I'm shopping around for the highest bidder." Or, "I can't stand this job and will take the next open job available."
Come on. Leadership changed. They "messed with his happy," and both sides were okay with his leaving.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 25, 2024, 12:27:01 PM
That's just the price of being a successful coach at a top 20-30 program. I am not super worried he's going to leave any time soon. I honestly wouldn't begin to worry until MU Leadership changes over because it seems he has a great working relationship with Lovell/Scholl.
We would all be upset if Shaka wasn't a hot name.
Crean sucks
Quote from: Not A Serious Person on February 24, 2024, 10:17:42 PM
February 24, 2012
Twelve years ago today Buzz Williams (@TeamCoachBuzz) dances on the court to "Take Me Home, Country Roads" following #10
@MarquetteMBB rallying from a 15-point deficit to defeat West Virginia (@WVUhoops) 61-60 on February 24, 2012
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/968975/buzz_medium.gif)
This dancing was nothing compared to the dancing that was going on in Zilber Hall and the executive offices of The Al when Buzz announced he was leaving.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 25, 2024, 05:15:17 PM
This dancing was nothing compared to the dancing that was going on in Zilber Hall and the executive offices of The Al when Buzz announced he was leaving.
That's not what I heard, in fact, I have video proof they wanted him to stay:
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/FyQPGvSL65kAAAAC/willy-wonka-stop-dont-come-back.gif)
Quote from: bradforster on February 25, 2024, 03:29:30 PM
"I'll stay as long as they'll have me." Perhaps MU kicked him to the curb. Either way, I'm glad he's an hour up the road from me in Texas instead of roaming the sideline at Fiserv. Let this itinerant man travel wherever he wants to go.
It is more complicated than they wanted him to stay or wanted him to go. Life always is. Buzz came in under one administration with one AD and president. Then the AD who hired him got fired and the president retired. Their replacements did such a great job that they were both gone after two years. Reportedly, the relationship between the AD and Buzz was absolutely toxic from the very beginning, communication was limited at best, and he had good reason to think that his time at Marquette was limited. You will recall that right after the incident pictured above, which was really a pretty minor thing and not intended to insult anybody, the AD was publicly critical of his basketball coach, but had not approached him directly. That is not exactly the way to make your basketball coach feel supported.
You can draw whatever conclusions you like, but the fact is that both the president and the AD were pretty much forced out of their jobs. Fr. Wild graciously agreed to return as president, and Bill Cords made a significant sacrifice to return as AD, and it seems the relationship between Buzz and Cords was not what he had under Cottingham. Add to this Buzz's view that non-football schools would not be able to compete (Not such a crazy idea and it may yet prove to be accurate. Recall that lots of people thought the current Big East would not be successful -at least until Villanova won it all) and the decision to leave does not seem so crazy. From there he took on a less than coveted job at Virginia Tech. Reportedly he wanted to land somewhere more stable, like Auburn, but did not get hired. Va Tech has had sporadic success over the years. Seth Greenberg, who is a pretty good coach, could not get it to work there. Buzz got them to the NCAA tournament for the first time in a long time. No surprise he went on to a better situation at TAMU. He has not been as successful as might be expected in a pretty tough SEC. I would not give up on him yet. In the meantime, consider that this is the guy who lead Marquette to an Elite Eight, three straight Sweet Sixteens, and its first ever BE title. Does not seem to me that he owes Marquette much of an apology.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 25, 2024, 08:08:05 AM
This was probably supposed to be the year they were a top-15 type team, too.
A ton of minutes returned from last year and a lot of upperclassmen on the roster.
Some misses in recruiting. Manny Obaseki was A&M's highest ever ranked recruit and he's been middling.
His recruiting hasn't been great there. Very curious what happens there. And Sultan makes a good point, state of Texas has some good coaches within its borders. Tough recruiting scene
I think thats the most surprising thing. It was tracking like he did at VT. Year 3 is good not great ( First NCAA appearance in a decade at VT, NIT Runner Up at TAMU). Year 4 shows a ton of promise (Beat Duke and UVA late in the year at VT, made another NCAA this time as a top 8 seed). Then Year 5 it shows results. But his team this year is just bad. The Non-Con losses to UVA, Memphis, and FAU haven't aged well and they really only have one opportunity for a "good" win left this week against South Carolina, who has been stumbling themselves.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 25, 2024, 05:12:16 PM
Crean sucks
Buzz is the 2nd best coach since Al.
Shaka is entering the conversation.
I really enjoy seeing Buzz lose since he left MU.
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 25, 2024, 12:20:05 PM
With everything that's happened to the program since then, it's hard to believe this was only 12 years ago. Feels like a distant memory.
I do remember this as a "Buzz being Buzz" type of game — multiple players suspended for the first half in an act of self-righteousness and somehow managing to pull a win out of his a$$. IMO, this was also one of the games that cemented Crowder as a legit BE POY candidate.
Regardless of anyone's feelings toward Buzz, him dancing on WV's court after this win is a classic moment in MU fandom.
I still think of that game every time I hear Country Roads. I loved that team and that was a great moment. Say what you want about Buzz and how he left but until we get deeper in the tournament than he did (which would mean a FF) I'm not going to hate the guy.
Quote from: frozena pizza on February 26, 2024, 07:31:47 AM
I still think of that game every time I hear Country Roads. I loved that team and that was a great moment. Say what you want about Buzz and how he left but until we get deeper in the tournament than he did (which would mean a FF) I'm not going to hate the guy.
We were at the MU WVU thanksgiving game in Charleston when Tyler started singing it during the foul shot. He became my favorite player right then.
Quote from: Goatherder on February 25, 2024, 10:43:28 PM
It is more complicated than they wanted him to stay or wanted him to go. Life always is. Buzz came in under one administration with one AD and president. Then the AD who hired him got fired and the president retired. Their replacements did such a great job that they were both gone after two years. Reportedly, the relationship between the AD and Buzz was absolutely toxic from the very beginning, communication was limited at best, and he had good reason to think that his time at Marquette was limited. You will recall that right after the incident pictured above, which was really a pretty minor thing and not intended to insult anybody, the AD was publicly critical of his basketball coach, but had not approached him directly. That is not exactly the way to make your basketball coach feel supported.
You can draw whatever conclusions you like, but the fact is that both the president and the AD were pretty much forced out of their jobs. Fr. Wild graciously agreed to return as president, and Bill Cords made a significant sacrifice to return as AD, and it seems the relationship between Buzz and Cords was not what he had under Cottingham. Add to this Buzz's view that non-football schools would not be able to compete (Not such a crazy idea and it may yet prove to be accurate. Recall that lots of people thought the current Big East would not be successful -at least until Villanova won it all) and the decision to leave does not seem so crazy. From there he took on a less than coveted job at Virginia Tech. Reportedly he wanted to land somewhere more stable, like Auburn, but did not get hired. Va Tech has had sporadic success over the years. Seth Greenberg, who is a pretty good coach, could not get it to work there. Buzz got them to the NCAA tournament for the first time in a long time. No surprise he went on to a better situation at TAMU. He has not been as successful as might be expected in a pretty tough SEC. I would not give up on him yet. In the meantime, consider that this is the guy who lead Marquette to an Elite Eight, three straight Sweet Sixteens, and its first ever BE title. Does not seem to me that he owes Marquette much of an apology.
Goatherder
Excellent recap. Marquette was good for Buzz and Buzz was good for Marquette. Anyone without an agenda would agree.
I missed Buzz during the mess that was Wojo. Fortunately those days are long gone now.
I appreciate the many accomplishments Marquette had under Buzz.
I also appreciate the many accomplishments Marquette had under Crean.
Both were net positives for the basketball program.
Both are now ancient history.
Come March 13, it will have been exactly a decade since Buzz coached a game at Marquette.
Long gone. And the other guy's even longer gone.
As our current coach preaches, ya gotta live in the present.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 26, 2024, 08:44:36 AM
Goatherder
Excellent recap. Marquette was good for Buzz and Buzz was good for Marquette. Anyone without an agenda would agree.
I think 2 young ladies who had their lives changed in 2010-11 might disagree with your take that "buzz was good for Marquette"
His court success speaks for itself and brought MU back to the top tier but minor recruiting violations, brawl at 720 w/underage drinking, qdoba fight, constant transfers, and the cherry on top that was the Chicago tribune article detailing the SA are not separate from buzz which gave us a crappy rep. In fact I'd argue that the constant headache that was buzz's program is what directly lead to Wojo and the comfort of a clean program over winning. which was pretty inarguably not good for Marquette. Thus buzz pushed too far and the lingering effect of him caused a major drop off after all his success.
Edit: forgot to add attempting to get recruits in like a guy who set a classmates hair on fire and an addict. (Harris and Noskowiak)
Flush him. It's 2024
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2024, 08:59:59 AM
I think 2 young ladies who had their lives changed in 2010-11 might disagree with your take that "buzz was good for Marquette"
His court success speaks for itself and brought MU back to the top tier but minor recruiting violations, brawl at 720 w/underage drinking, qdoba fight, constant transfers, and the cherry on top that was the Chicago tribune article detailing the SA are not separate from buzz which gave us a crappy rep. In fact I'd argue that the constant headache that was buzz's program is what directly lead to Wojo and the comfort of a clean program over winning. which was pretty inarguably not good for Marquette. Thus buzz pushed too far and the lingering effect of him caused a major drop off after all his success.
Be careful. According to Lenny, you have "an agenda."
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 25, 2024, 03:13:11 PM
Life is too short to worry about a half-baked, dime store hillbilly.
We are Marquette! We're back! Get used to it!
...but we get to keep that E8, right?
Quote from: warriorchick on February 25, 2024, 05:15:17 PM
This dancing was nothing compared to the dancing that was going on in Zilber Hall and the executive offices of The Al when Buzz announced he was leaving.
Except those offices were vacant at the time due to their previous occupiers being fired for management malfeasance. Is it any wonder the #donedeal wasn't #done until three years ago? What a mess all the way around back then. MU was close to the edge.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 26, 2024, 09:40:08 AM
Except those offices were vacant at the time due to their previous occupiers being fired for management malfeasance. Is it any wonder the #donedeal wasn't #done until three years ago? What a mess all the way around back then. MU was close to the edge.
Thank you, President Lovell
Reading this article, too much Buzz hate. Even some irrational accusations.
I started following MU at the end of Crean....knew about the program of course as I was the son a UofDetroit fan and one myself. It seems there's not one coach since Crean that's not bad-mouthed. It might be that none are the greatness that MU fans hope for...but c'mon man!
One day Shaka will move on from Marquette...maybe retire in 20yrs or maybe go for Media $$ or maybe a couple of bad seasons and the Admin wants to shake it up. But whatever the case, lets not trash him, right!?
I do wonder if Buzz goes to media sooner rather than later. I remember his story about a doctor telling him he needed to be healthier. It does look like he's kept in good shape since then.
I think he's shown he could be good at the media piece. Just not sure it's in his nature to be in the crowd while others are coaching.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 26, 2024, 10:21:35 AM
Reading this article, too much Buzz hate. Even some irrational accusations.
I started following MU at the end of Crean....knew about the program of course as I was the son a UofDetroit fan and one myself. It seems there's not one coach since Crean that's not bad-mouthed. It might be that none are the greatness that MU fans hope for...but c'mon man!
One day Shaka will move on from Marquette...maybe retire in 20yrs or maybe go for Media $$ or maybe a couple of bad seasons and the Admin wants to shake it up. But whatever the case, lets not trash him, right!?
I think it is undoubtedly true that Buzz Williams was a great asset on the basketball court. I think it is also true that some of the off-court issues got people nervous, and that he wasn't the most popular guy on campus when he left.
As was said at the time, I don't think Buzz is built to be long for anywhere. Intense and quirky can be fun for awhile, but it can also be annoying over-time.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 26, 2024, 10:35:41 AM
I think it is undoubtedly true that Buzz Williams was a great asset on the basketball court. I think it is also true that some of the off-court issues got people nervous, and that he wasn't the most popular guy on campus when he left.
As was said at the time, I don't think Buzz is built to be long for anywhere. Intense and quirky can be fun for awhile, but it can also be annoying over-time.
Vagabuzz
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2024, 08:59:59 AM
I think 2 young ladies who had their lives changed in 2010-11 might disagree with your take that "buzz was good for Marquette"
His court success speaks for itself and brought MU back to the top tier but minor recruiting violations, brawl at 720 w/underage drinking, qdoba fight, constant transfers, and the cherry on top that was the Chicago tribune article detailing the SA are not separate from buzz which gave us a crappy rep. In fact I'd argue that the constant headache that was buzz's program is what directly lead to Wojo and the comfort of a clean program over winning. which was pretty inarguably not good for Marquette. Thus buzz pushed too far and the lingering effect of him caused a major drop off after all his success.
I agree that the Wojo era was a massive over-correction that only happened because our previous coach was Buzz. The powers that be wanted a stiff who would keep the program out of the papers, and they got one. Unfortunately, if you're coaching major college hoops and the best thing you bring to the table is that you run a clean program, you deserve to be shown the door just as much as the guy on the opposite end of the spectrum. Wojo found that out the hard way.
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 26, 2024, 12:58:47 PM
I agree that the Wojo era was a massive over-correction that only happened because our previous coach was Buzz. The powers that be wanted a stiff who would keep the program out of the papers, and they got one. Unfortunately, if you're coaching major college hoops and the best thing you bring to the table is that you run a clean program, you deserve to be shown the door just as much as the guy on the opposite end of the spectrum. Wojo found that out the hard way.
I think that at the time Wojo was hired he was an objectively good hire with a strong resume. Unfortunately (for MU), the fact that he could not coach had been obscured by his proximity to people much more talented than him.
I remember it the same way, that the general thought was that it was a solid hire.
Quote from: Warriors4ever on February 26, 2024, 03:51:36 PM
I remember it the same way, that the general thought was that it was a solid hire.
He gave good PowerPoint.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 26, 2024, 10:26:29 AM
I do wonder if Buzz goes to media sooner rather than later. I remember his story about a doctor telling him he needed to be healthier. It does look like he's kept in good shape since then.
Used to bump into Buzz at the CS Orange Theory getting them splat points
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 26, 2024, 01:55:01 PM
I think that at the time Wojo was hired he was an objectively good hire with a strong resume. Unfortunately (for MU), the fact that he could not coach had been obscured by his proximity to people much more talented than him.
...which has always baffled me...his coaching. As you say, strong resume. Really strong. I mean, he had can't miss all over him. He did recruit some talent. No question. And, he was great off the court...I mentioned in the past Wojo reaching out to a friends kid who was hospitalized at Children's/Wisconsin. BUT...coaching just left me puzzled. Beats #1 Nova...goes 4-3 vs my favorite nemesis, UW. Yet, those late season flame outs. Being absolutely blown out in the ncaa's. The inability to adjust, in-game or off-season. Head scratcher, for sure.
Quote from: Viper on February 26, 2024, 07:02:24 PM
...which has always baffled me...his coaching. As you say, strong resume. Really strong. I mean, he had can't miss all over him. He did recruit some talent. No question. And, he was great off the court...I mentioned in the past Wojo reaching out to a friends kid who was hospitalized at Children's/Wisconsin. BUT...coaching just left me puzzled. Beats #1 Nova...goes 4-3 vs my favorite nemesis, UW. Yet, those late season flame outs. Being absolutely blown out in the ncaa's. The inability to adjust, in-game or off-season. Head scratcher, for sure.
He was an assistant coach for fifteen years. Should tell you a little bit.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 28, 2024, 02:42:18 PM
He was an assistant coach for fifteen years. Should tell you a little bit.
That's true, but it's not like he was bouncing around as an assistant. He was the "Associate HC" for a legend and was often thought to be K's heir apparent at Duke. That's not your typical "career assistant/damaged goods" pedigree that would usually be cause for concern.
I hope Wojo comes back to the college game and gives it another shot. I would not root against him and think he'd do better this time around. Sucked for MU fans to have a coach learning on the job, but I'm sure he has a better idea now of how he would build his own program versus just trying to make the Duke way work wherever.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 28, 2024, 03:03:37 PM
I hope Wojo comes back to the college game and gives it another shot. I would not root against him and think he'd do better this time around. Sucked for MU fans to have a coach learning on the job, but I'm sure he has a better idea now of how he would build his own program versus just trying to make the Duke way work wherever.
Given his recruiting and average at best coaching I'd say he just bit off more than he could chew at the wrong time. Following Buzz needed to be an unreal coach to hit expectations, that said at a program just looking to make the tournament and have a player or two to hang their hat on he'd be fine. Honestly he probably would be solid at getting GTown back on the map.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 28, 2024, 03:00:58 PM
That's true, but it's not like he was bouncing around as an assistant. He was the "Associate HC" for a legend and was often thought to be K's heir apparent at Duke. That's not your typical "career assistant/damaged goods" pedigree that would usually be cause for concern.
Well, K's coaching tree is bad... and Wojo went there... hard to tell one of your favorite players (undoubtedly), and friend that he isn't a good coach.
Quote from: Viper on February 26, 2024, 07:02:24 PM
...which has always baffled me...his coaching. As you say, strong resume. Really strong. I mean, he had can't miss all over him. He did recruit some talent. No question. And, he was great off the court...I mentioned in the past Wojo reaching out to a friends kid who was hospitalized at Children's/Wisconsin. BUT...coaching just left me puzzled. Beats #1 Nova...goes 4-3 vs my favorite nemesis, UW. Yet, those late season flame outs. Being absolutely blown out in the ncaa's. The inability to adjust, in-game or off-season. Head scratcher, for sure.
Much of the Scoop intelligentsia thought Buzz was a questionable hire who would be in over his head and that Wojo was a home run. To say they were wrong would be an understatement.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 28, 2024, 03:38:30 PM
Much of the Scoop intelligentsia thought Buzz was a questionable hire who would be in over his head and that Wojo was a home run. To say they were wrong would be an understatement.
Viper is talking about Wojo.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on February 26, 2024, 10:21:35 AM
Reading this article, too much Buzz hate. Even some irrational accusations.
I started following MU at the end of Crean....knew about the program of course as I was the son a UofDetroit fan and one myself. It seems there's not one coach since Crean that's not bad-mouthed. It might be that none are the greatness that MU fans hope for...but c'mon man!
One day Shaka will move on from Marquette...maybe retire in 20yrs or maybe go for Media $$ or maybe a couple of bad seasons and the Admin wants to shake it up. But whatever the case, lets not trash him, right!?
Outside of Shaka there were only two coaches since crean. And well, one has a strong case for being one of the worst MU coaches of all time.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 28, 2024, 03:00:58 PM
He was the "Associate HC" for a legend and was often thought to be K's heir apparent at Duke.
Which was why this was possibly the dumbest hire of all time.
Option A) Wojo is a great coach, and takes the Duke job when K retires 4/5 years later.
Option B) Wojo is what we got.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 04:53:28 PM
Outside of Shaka there were only two coaches since crean. And well, one has a strong case for being one of the worst MU coaches of all time.
If you define "one of the worst" as the lower portion of middle of the pack, sure. There weren't many great coaches at Marquette before Al.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 28, 2024, 03:44:18 PM
Viper is talking about Wojo.
So was I. Guessed you missed the part about people here thinking Wojo's hiring was a home run.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 28, 2024, 03:00:58 PM
That's true, but it's not like he was bouncing around as an assistant. He was the "Associate HC" for a legend and was often thought to be K's heir apparent at Duke. That's not your typical "career assistant/damaged goods" pedigree that would usually be cause for concern.
K didn't really seem like the type of coach who'd value constructive debates, original ideas, or thoughts that weren't his own.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 04:56:27 PM
Which was why this was possibly the dumbest hire of all time.
Option A) Wojo is a great coach, and takes the Duke job when K retires 4/5 years later.
Option B) Wojo is what we got.
Our other finalists were Ben Howland and Cuonzo Martin. Martin has been pretty awful and is no longer a head coach. Howland had been fired by UCLA despite winning the Pac12 the year before because of some not so great things going on in the UCLA program, and has been pretty meh at Mississippi State.
Other names that took new jobs that offseason were Bruce Pearl, who MU was absolutely not going to hire coming off of Buzz, Kim Anderson, Donnie Tyndall, Chris Holtmann, and Danny Manning. Holtmann was just taking the job he had as an assistant.
It wasn't like we really missed on any great coach, other than Shaka. And Shaka may have seen MU as a stepping stone without the football conference job experience.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2024, 05:05:37 PM
Our other finalists were Ben Howland and Cuonzo Martin. Martin has been pretty awful and is no longer a head coach. Howland had been fired by UCLA despite winning the Pac12 the year before because of some not so great things going on in the UCLA program, and has been pretty meh at Mississippi State.
Other names that took new jobs that offseason were Bruce Pearl, who MU was absolutely not going to hire coming off of Buzz, Kim Anderson, Donnie Tyndall, Chris Holtmann, and Danny Manning. Holtmann was just taking the job he had as an assistant.
It wasn't like we really missed on any great coach, other than Shaka. And Shaka may have seen MU as a stepping stone without the football conference job experience.
Never tried calling Billy Donovan. SMDH
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 28, 2024, 05:01:13 PM
So was I. Guessed you missed the part about people here thinking Wojo's hiring was a home run.
Who actually called it a home run?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2024, 05:05:37 PM
Our other finalists were Ben Howland and Cuonzo Martin. Martin has been pretty awful and is no longer a head coach. Howland had been fired by UCLA despite winning the Pac12 the year before because of some not so great things going on in the UCLA program, and has been pretty meh at Mississippi State.
Other names that took new jobs that offseason were Bruce Pearl, who MU was absolutely not going to hire coming off of Buzz, Kim Anderson, Donnie Tyndall, Chris Holtmann, and Danny Manning. Holtmann was just taking the job he had as an assistant.
It wasn't like we really missed on any great coach, other than Shaka. And Shaka may have seen MU as a stepping stone without the football conference job experience.
Not sure if mentioning our other finalists being terrible as well should absolve the administration of the absolutely terrible hire, and 7 years of wojo.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 28, 2024, 05:09:38 PM
Who actually called it a home run?
MU82 for sure. We could just go back to 2014.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 05:15:47 PM
MU82 for sure. We could just go back to 2014.
I have. Most of the reaction I'm seeing ranges from hating it to hoping for the best. Not really seeing any regular Scoopers calling it a home run (or words to that effect), much less "much of the Scoop intelligentsia." But I'm totally open to the possibility I might be missing some.
Wojo had the right resume and was worth the roll of the dice. Especially with the uncertainty of the university and conference direction.
I was more upset with the extension(s) when it was clear he wasn't the guy.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 05:15:30 PM
Not sure if mentioning our other finalists being terrible as well should absolve the administration of the absolutely terrible hire, and 7 years of wojo.
I don't think the administration's problem is that they hired him — every program makes bad hires, and his resume was credible — it's that they held onto him for too long. An aggressive AD would've fired him after he missed the tournament in year 4. At the very least, I think everyone had seen all they needed to after Year 5 and the Murray State blowout. But still he remained, and those last two years were infuriating. No way a guy with those results ever gets that kind of leash in the NIL/instant transfer era.
Glad to see the usual suspects come out of the woodworks so they can revisit a Wojo topic (again), rather than enjoy the 2024 season. Some are only happy when they're miserable.
The problem was that Wojo averaged 20 wins a year years 2-6. I argued at the time that MU would not fire a coach averaging 20 wins a year. They didn't. Wojo finished under .500 and it was AMF.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 28, 2024, 05:01:13 PM
So was I. Guessed you missed the part about people here thinking Wojo's hiring was a home run.
I guess I did.
Quote from: tower912 on February 28, 2024, 05:38:54 PM
The problem was that Wojo averaged 20 wins a year years 2-6. I argued at the time that MU would not fire a coach averaging 20 wins a year. They didn't. Wojo finished under .500 and it was AMF.
It's not a problem unless you subscribe to that being a constraint. That thinking resulted in the program sliding and apathy.
I'm just glad someone thought differently and stepped up to pay the buyout.
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on February 28, 2024, 05:34:57 PM
I don't think the administration's problem is that they hired him — every program makes bad hires, and his resume was credible — it's that they held onto him for too long. An aggressive AD would've fired him after he missed the tournament in year 4. At the very least, I think everyone had seen all they needed to after Year 5 and the Murray State blowout. But still he remained, and those last two years were infuriating. No way a guy with those results ever gets that kind of leash in the NIL/instant transfer era.
He would have been fired after going to overtime against IUPUI after dropping the game vs belmont if I was the admin.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 28, 2024, 05:37:39 PM
Glad to see the usual suspects come out of the woodworks so they can revisit a Wojo topic (again), rather than enjoy the 2024 season. Some are only happy when they're miserable.
No one here is miserable. There are those of us who called it year 1/2 that do like to gloat though.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 08:50:13 PM
No one here is miserable. There are those of us who called it year 1/2 that do like to gloat though.
We're top 5 in the country. Just had our third straight 20+ point win. Are likely on our way to our second consecutive 2 seed and all 6 of your posts today are about Wojo. You can clearly not enjoy the positive present and are obsessed with the negative past. But you be you.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2024, 05:05:37 PM
Our other finalists were Ben Howland and Cuonzo Martin. Martin has been pretty awful and is no longer a head coach. Howland had been fired by UCLA despite winning the Pac12 the year before because of some not so great things going on in the UCLA program, and has been pretty meh at Mississippi State.
Other names that took new jobs that offseason were Bruce Pearl, who MU was absolutely not going to hire coming off of Buzz, Kim Anderson, Donnie Tyndall, Chris Holtmann, and Danny Manning. Holtmann was just taking the job he had as an assistant.
It wasn't like we really missed on any great coach, other than Shaka. And Shaka may have seen MU as a stepping stone without the football conference job experience.
Howland was also terminated at Miss State.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 08:50:13 PM
No one here is miserable. There are those of us who called it year 1/2 that do like to gloat though.
Congratulations.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 08:50:13 PM
No one here is miserable. There are those of us who called it year 1/2 that do like to gloat though.
Or year 0
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 05:15:47 PM
MU82 for sure. We could just go back to 2014.
Well, that's a lie.
I didn't say the following about Stevie Mitchell, either, but somebody did:
Quote from: #UnleashSean on January 20, 2024, 01:13:49 PM
I hate Stevie.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 28, 2024, 05:24:04 PM
I was more upset with the extension(s) when it was clear he wasn't the guy.
This x1000. He was so clearly not the guy after 2019 and that offseason. I understand why programs wait a few too many yrs to fire a coach when even they know they're not the guy. But a contract extension??
But glad we didnt fire him then or no Shaka.
You trying to summons the "Projos"?
Quote from: #UnleashSean on February 28, 2024, 04:53:28 PM
Outside of Shaka there were only two coaches since crean. And well, one has a strong case for being one of the worst MU coaches of all time.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 28, 2024, 03:38:30 PM
Much of the Scoop intelligentsia thought Buzz was a questionable hire who would be in over his head and that Wojo was a home run. To say they were wrong would be an understatement.
By much, do you mean Chicos? I mean he is like 38 accounts by himself
.
Lotsa folks heer no no ball, aina?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 29, 2024, 12:41:39 AM
By much, do you mean Chicos? I mean he is like 38 accounts by himself
My recollection is that his concern was about "the process" more than anything.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 29, 2024, 04:24:10 AM
Lotsa folks heer no no ball, aina?
Says the trade Giannis dope
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on February 29, 2024, 07:19:39 AM
Says the trade Giannis dope
That's different. He's a prima donna who invests in the community 4elder hates
Crean and Wojo both sent in video messages in for Barb's retirement last year. Buzz declined. Character revealed.
I'm glad we moved on from Wojo but we should thank him for bringing us 60% of our current starting lineup. He may have been a lousy coach but the guy could recruit. That alone should get him a job somewhere.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 29, 2024, 08:05:01 AM
Crean and Wojo both sent in video messages in for Barb's retirement last year. Buzz declined. Character revealed.
I'm glad we moved on from Wojo but we should thank him for bringing us 60% of our current starting lineup. He may have been a lousy coach but the guy could recruit. That alone should get him a job somewhere.
Wojo checked every box, except winning. I think the comments on his coaching experience being with only elite talent lead him to not develop as a coach is spot on. Also observations about Coach K not being a great mentor or terribly 'democratic' with his coaching staff are astute. Maybe like great players not making good coaches, great coaches don't always develop great head coaches, ie Belichick and Calhoun.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 29, 2024, 08:33:52 AM
Wojo checked every box, except winning. I think the comments on his coaching experience being with only elite talent lead him to not develop as a coach is spot on. Also observations about Coach K not being a great mentor or terribly 'democratic' with his coaching staff are astute. Maybe like great players not making good coaches, great coaches don't always develop great head coaches, ie Belichick and Calhoun.
Well, there are those letter writers who didn't think that Wojo checked the "player/locker room management" box.
Quote from: mug644 on February 29, 2024, 09:35:47 AM
Well, there are those letter writers who didn't think that Wojo checked the "player/locker room management" box.
Only 1 family wrote a letter
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 26, 2024, 08:59:59 AM
I think 2 young ladies who had their lives changed in 2010-11 might disagree with your take that "buzz was good for Marquette"
His court success speaks for itself and brought MU back to the top tier but minor recruiting violations, brawl at 720 w/underage drinking, qdoba fight, constant transfers, and the cherry on top that was the Chicago tribune article detailing the SA are not separate from buzz which gave us a crappy rep. In fact I'd argue that the constant headache that was buzz's program is what directly lead to Wojo and the comfort of a clean program over winning. which was pretty inarguably not good for Marquette. Thus buzz pushed too far and the lingering effect of him caused a major drop off after all his success.
Edit: forgot to add attempting to get recruits in like a guy who set a classmates hair on fire and an addict. (Harris and Noskowiak)
This is pretty spot on. The Buzz era can be distilled down to Buzz never fully coming to terms that he was ultimately responsible for the behavior of those within the program(both coaches and players). The litany of off court problems was raising questions of institutional control, both from inside the Al as well as outside the program. Unfortunately admin at the time weren't the strongest or smartest so when they approached Buzz about recognizing the problem, I'm sure they were heavy handed and Buzz overreacted. I'd like to believe with experience now, Buzz would admit there were problems, but he is a pretty immature guy so who knows. I'd also like to believe with a more competent AD, things could have been different but also who knows.
For me, that game against WV is a perfect representation of the Buzz era. Buzz smiling, dancing, and showboating in front of a camera after Jae carried the entire team on his back while half the team was suspended by the AD(lol if you think Buzz suspended them on his own) for getting into fights.
Yeah, half true.
Buzz deserved the reputation he got once he left. The issue is the people above him (admin, who were the real targets in the Chicago Tribune article for the dismissal of the rape charges) and the ones below him (the player who committed the crimes (a walk on, if I remember), are the bad guys. Trash on Buzz all you want, but he was probably fourth in line for what went down.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 29, 2024, 05:24:21 PM
Yeah, half true.
Buzz deserved the reputation he got once he left. The issue is the people above him (admin, who were the real targets in the Chicago Tribune article for the dismissal of the rape charges) and the ones below him (the player who committed the crimes (a walk on, if I remember), are the bad guys. Trash on Buzz all you want, but he was probably fourth in line for what went down.
I don't think Buzz's actions will be on any training videos except for maybe a what not to do.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 29, 2024, 05:28:12 PM
I don't think Buzz's actions will be on any training videos except for maybe a what not to do.
I agree 100%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljaP2etvDc4
Buzz was and probably still a dirtbag. Time to move on.
Quote from: PJDunn on February 29, 2024, 05:43:31 PM
Buzz was and probably still a dirtbag. Time to move on.
We got a good one with Shaka.
And this board is so much better without Chicos.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 29, 2024, 05:24:21 PM
(the player who committed the crimes (a walk on, if I remember)
Plural players and no it was not just walk ones.
The head coach is the CEO. Just as it was Wojo's job to deal with the Hauser/Howard egos, it was Buzz's job to deal with his team's off-the-court situations. It's a stain on both coaches' MU records.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 29, 2024, 07:01:49 PM
Plural players and no it was not just walk ones.
Thanks for clarifying. I don't claim to know all the details but my understanding is that it was not one assault and not one player. Buzz also was allegedly involved in trying to remedy one of these situations without going through the proper channels at the university.
Buzz's teams were fun and it was a great time for on court results. But for all the handwringing about crime on campus by some here, everyone should be happy that Buzz isn't at MU anymore because he didn't care at all about the campus community at all. If what I have heard is true, MU's admin can only be faulted for not being more stern with Buzz towards the end of his tenure.