Elite BE foe...
https://nypost.com/2024/02/10/sports/st-johns-battles-but-falls-to-big-east-power-marquette/
Thanks for sharing as I like reading Pitino's comments about his team's defensive mindset....so true!
The header "Powerhouse" & "Marquette" has a nice ring to it, especially coming from the NY Post!!!
Quote from: F-Bucky on February 11, 2024, 09:39:38 AM
Thanks for sharing as I like reading Pitino's comments about his team's defensive mindset....so true!
The header "Powerhouse" & "Marquette" has a nice ring to it, especially coming from the NY Post!!!
I loved watching us take down Pitino's team twice. I am not looking forward to seeing them in the BET or next year though.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 09:46:45 AM
I loved watching us take down Pitino's team twice. I am not looking forward to seeing them in the BET or next year though.
100%
I am. New season, new teams, new challenges. To become the best, you need to beat the best.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 09:46:45 AMI am not looking forward to seeing them in the BET or next year though.
If we do play them in the BET, any bets on what the game clock will be at the first time TyKo gets knocked on his ass? I'm going to guess 18:24 remaining in the first half. It would be sooner, but Soriano will have to catch him first.
And I suspect that's exactly the way TyKo would want it. He knows there's a price for trash talking and he's willing to pay it. He also happens to know that he'll extract an even greater price from SJU for knocking him on his ass. I'm gonna miss that kid. I really hope we get another year...but I doubt it.
I was grateful that Pitino conceded the game earlier than most coaches would trailing by 8 with a minute left. The day was long enough without the last minute of game time taking 15 minutes of real time.
Watching the recording it seemed like he was irate at Jenkins for letting Ross behind him for that layup and when they turned the ball over after he used his last timeout he was more interested in jawing at the referee than having his team take the fouls needed to put MU in the bonus.
After what happened in the last minute of last year's SJU game I wasn't breathing easy until they let Kolek dribble off 25 seconds before launching the final dagger.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 11, 2024, 11:46:26 AM
If we do play them in the BET, any bets on what the game clock will be at the first time TyKo gets knocked on his ass? I'm going to guess 18:24 remaining in the first half. It would be sooner, but Soriano will have to catch him first.
And I suspect that's exactly the way TyKo would want it. He knows there's a price for trash talking and he's willing to pay it. He also happens to know that he'll extract an even greater price from SJU for knocking him on his ass. I'm gonna miss that kid. I really hope we get another year...but I doubt it.
If MU plays St. John's? Don't they play them every year? It sure seems that way.
I'd be happy to see MU play someone else this year.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 09:46:45 AM
I loved watching us take down Pitino's team twice. I am not looking forward to seeing them in the BET or next year though.
Assuming he can recruit at a necessary level (but word out of NYC is pretty favorable already with his inroads) I find it hard to believe they won't be a regular top 5 team in the BE. Shaka, Pitino, Hurley, Sean Miller, and McDermott (assuming he stays) will be a vicious upper echelon of a conference.
Cooley is a very good coach but he's got an absurd amount of catch up to do in DC. And Nova is a massive question mark with Neptune. I still lean towards them looking for a new coach by 2026. I see people saying stuff about Wright taking awhile to get going, but he took over a program that hadn't won an NCAA game in 6 years. Not one that had 3 FFs, 2 National titles, and another S16 in their last 6 postseasons (excluding the COVID year obviously)
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2024, 11:33:34 AM
I am. New season, new teams, new challenges. To become the best, you need to beat the best.
I was being only half serious. I was basically saying that a Pitino coached team can never be taken lightly, and that in both matchups so far, we really had to work hard for the W. If we meet in the BET, once again a W would be hard won. Agree that beating tough teams makes us better and tested for the Big Dance.
Quote from: wisblue on February 11, 2024, 12:02:10 PM
I was grateful that Pitino conceded the game earlier than most coaches would trailing by 8 with a minute left. The day was long enough without the last minute of game time taking 15 minutes of real time.
Watching the recording it seemed like he was irate at Jenkins for letting Ross behind him for that layup and when they turned the ball over after he used his last timeout he was more interested in jawing at the referee than having his team take the fouls needed to put MU in the bonus.
After what happened in the last minute of last year's SJU game I wasn't breathing easy until they let Kolek dribble off 25 seconds before launching the final dagger.
I mentioned this in another thread. That was really weird. You HAVE to foul Kolek immediately - and that would have only been their 6th foul, so they would have had to foul immediately after the ensuing inbounds.
Long shot they could have won? Sure. But the very last time they played us, we almost choked away the game at the FT line. So this was pretty much coaching malpractice to just let Kolek dribble almost the entire clock down. Bizarre.
Pitino has forgotten more about basketball than any of us will ever know ... but, with a minute to play, he also apparently forgot to try to win last night's game.
Pitino definitely lost it in the final minute. I felt bad for Jenkins, who had a great game, being yelled at by his coach that vehemently.
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on February 11, 2024, 02:12:50 PM
Pitino definitely lost it in the final minute. I felt bad for Jenkins, who had a great game, being yelled at by his coach that vehemently.
Maybe Shaka felt bad for him too, sang the kid a lot of praises in the presser.
He'll be fine. He's played for Pitino for a long time.
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on February 11, 2024, 02:12:50 PM
Pitino definitely lost it in the final minute. I felt bad for Jenkins, who had a great game, being yelled at by his coach that vehemently.
Little Ricky is winless in Fiserv
Wow we have chicken shiit fans. Why? We beat them twice twice year. Don't believe in Shaka's recruiting? Don't believe in Shaka's coaching? I would think that St John's would not want to play Marquette.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 09:46:45 AM
I loved watching us take down Pitino's team twice. I am not looking forward to seeing them in the BET or next year though.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 11, 2024, 03:42:51 PM
Wow we have chicken shiit fans. Why? We beat them twice twice year. Don't believe in Shaka's recruiting? Don't believe in Shaka's coaching? I would think that St John's would not want to play Marquette.
I think you should overreact a little more.
I can spot long haul COLE.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 03:47:01 PM
I think you should overreact a little more.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 11, 2024, 03:42:51 PM
Wow we have chicken shiit fans. Why? We beat them twice twice year. Don't believe in Shaka's recruiting? Don't believe in Shaka's coaching? I would think that St John's would not want to play Marquette.
Guess you missed my reply to Tower. "I was being only half serious". No problem with Shaka or our team. Just acknowledging that Pitino has done well in his first season and will be a handful next year. Guess my exact words triggered your response. I get that. Now take a deep breath. It's just a manner of speaking, nothing more.
Mea Culpa. I did not explain myself well.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 12:32:03 PM
I was being only half serious. I was basically saying that a Pitino coached team can never be taken lightly, and that in both matchups so far, we really had to work hard for the W. If we meet in the BET, once again a W would be hard won. Agree that beating tough teams makes us better and tested for the Big Dance.
They can't. He is an all timer. Which is what makes playing against and beating his teams sweeter.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2024, 04:49:03 PM
They can't. He is an all timer. Which is what makes playing against and beating his teams sweeter.
Yep. And beating UCONN 2 out of 3 last season was also sweet. No one else took down the national champs
twice!An even tougher BE will make Marquette even better prepared for the Big Dance. Trial by fire. I want the BE to be considered the #1 conference, not the Big 12.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 11, 2024, 04:58:59 PM
Yep. And beating UCONN 2 out of 3 last season was also sweet. No one else took down the national champs twice!
Xavier did. In only two games too.
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on February 11, 2024, 02:12:50 PM
Pitino definitely lost it in the final minute. I felt bad for Jenkins, who had a great game, being yelled at by his coach that vehemently.
Jenkins brought it on himself. Pitino told him something and he mouthed off back to Pitino. He kept doing it until Pitino brought out the "that's enough" father pointer finger. Pitino was going to let it gone but Jenkins kept going.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 05:01:12 PM
Xavier did. In only two games too.
Well crap! I forgot about that. "Thanks" for reminding me. :D
The win over UCONN n the BET was
so sweet. Let's do that again next Saturday.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 11, 2024, 05:31:18 PM
Jenkins brought it on himself. Pitino told him something and he mouthed off back to Pitino. He kept doing it until Pitino brought out the "that's enough" father pointer finger. Pitino was going to let it gone but Jenkins kept going.
Sorry, but Pitino should have walked away and screamed at someone in the game to foul Kolek.
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2024, 10:04:52 PM
Sorry, but Pitino should have walked away and screamed at someone in the game to foul Kolek.
The game was over. It didn't matter.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 10:07:45 PM
The game was over. It didn't matter.
Down 8 with about a minute left to a team that missed a bunch of FTs and was loose with the ball down the stretch the very last time they met.
You don't think you at least have to foul Kolek immediately, try to make MU successfully inbound the ball, and then foul again to send someone to the line for a 1-and-1?
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 11, 2024, 03:42:51 PM
Wow we have chicken shiit fans. Why? We beat them twice twice year. Don't believe in Shaka's recruiting? Don't believe in Shaka's coaching? I would think that St John's would not want to play Marquette.
Man back in December you were good King COLE
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2024, 10:46:18 PM
Down 8 with about a minute left to a team that missed a bunch of FTs and was loose with the ball down the stretch the very last time they met.
You don't think you at least have to foul Kolek immediately, try to make MU successfully inbound the ball, and then foul again to send someone to the line for a 1-and-1?
And, the game at Fiserv last March when the walk-ons were in the game with an 8 point lead and under 40 seconds to play? I believe StJ has FTs to win but couldnt convert.
A significant part of not wanting to play SJ in the BET is that it is one of their home courts.
If I have a choice between a number of teams that are otherwise fairly equal, I'd rather not play one that is playing effectively a home game.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 12, 2024, 06:55:52 AM
And, the game at Fiserv last March when the walk-ons were in the game with an 8 point lead and under 40 seconds to play? I believe StJ has FTs to win but couldnt convert.
They had a chance to tie
Quote from: real chili 83 on February 11, 2024, 09:30:57 AM
Elite BE foe...
https://nypost.com/2024/02/10/sports/st-johns-battles-but-falls-to-big-east-power-marquette/
Any win for a Pitino coached team is an Excellent win. Even sweeter now that Pitino is back in The Big East with The Johnnies as it generates this kind of positive publicity.
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2024, 10:46:18 PM
Down 8 with about a minute left to a team that missed a bunch of FTs and was loose with the ball down the stretch the very last time they met.
You don't think you at least have to foul Kolek immediately, try to make MU successfully inbound the ball, and then foul again to send someone to the line for a 1-and-1?
Nope. It was over.
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2024, 10:04:52 PM
Sorry, but Pitino should have walked away and screamed at someone in the game to foul Kolek.
He did twice.
The game was over. It was a three possession game with MU up 8 with 1:02 left in the game. Since St John's turned it over and MU had possession, it was the equivalent of a 4 possession game. MU would have to had missed four straight front ends.
Not only were they behind in the score but the refs let them play so St John's had to foul at least two times to even get into the bonus.
As has been mentioned, last year in a very similar situation, MU missed several free throws in the last minute and turned the ball over on an inbound play, SJ made a a few circus 3 point shots, including one that turned into a 4 point play when an MU player was pushed into the shooter, and SJ ended up with a free throw that could have tied the game and sent it to OT.
The vast, vast majority of coaches would have started fouling with a minute left. All it takes is one missed FT and a quick 3 on the other end and the screws start to tighten. A lot of teams keep fouling a lot later than that down by 8.
I bet that if MU threw in the towel down by 8 with a minute to go fans would rake Shaka over the coals.
I was at the game and was shocked they didn't foul.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:48:19 AM
Nope. It was over.
You and I usually agree on basketball stuff. You're wrong on this one.
Foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3, foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3 ... it's a 2-point game with 25 seconds left.
I mean, c'mon Sultan ... You saw the earlier SJ game. You saw the game at Creighton a few years ago - we were down 5 with like 5 seconds left and still came back to tie at the buzzer and then win in OT. You saw the Davidson NCAAT game. Those are just three off the top of my head where the situations were very similar.
Was it probably over? Sure, we can agree on that. Definitely over? No way; we're both old enough to have seen plenty of last-minute craziness on the court.
Quote from: wisblue on February 12, 2024, 09:09:57 AM
I bet that if MU threw in the towel down by 8 with a minute to go fans would rake Shaka over the coals.
You'd win that bet ... and I'd be one of the rakers.
It was stunning that Pitino didn't foul there. And if he let himself get distracted by some silly confrontation with one of his own players, that's not an excuse, it's an indictment.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 10:06:23 AM
You and I usually agree on basketball stuff. You're wrong on this one.
Foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3, foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3 ... it's a 2-point game with 25 seconds left.
I mean, c'mon Sultan ... You saw the earlier SJ game. You saw the game at Creighton a few years ago - we were down 5 with like 5 seconds left and still came back to tie at the buzzer and then win in OT. You saw the Davidson NCAAT game. Those are just three off the top of my head where the situations were very similar.
Was it probably over? Sure, we can agree on that. Definitely over? No way; we're both old enough to have seen plenty of last-minute craziness on the court.
You'd win that bet ... and I'd be one of the rakers.
It was stunning that Pitino didn't foul there. And if he let himself get distracted by some silly confrontation with one of his own players, that's not an excuse, it's an indictment.
Nope. I am right. It was over. You're just doing your normal sportswriter being dramatic schtick.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 10:39:37 AM
Nope. I am right. It was over. You're just doing your normal sportswriter being dramatic schtick.
You're just doing your "I said it, so even though evidence was presented that refutes what I said, I'll die on my hill" schtick.
Apparently, you also thought the Creighton and Davidson games were over. And you certainly were right about those.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 10:39:37 AM
Nope. I am right. It was over. You're just doing your normal sportswriter being dramatic schtick.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5QQa6stYNxy8SjoYc1/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611re76jdsaektmh2le5lkqaawuyo26u9x7y1w3hcfi&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Was the StJ's game last March over when Shaka had the walk-ons in? Shaka thought so, so did I, we were both wrong.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 10:06:23 AM
You and I usually agree on basketball stuff. You're wrong on this one.
Foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3, foul, MU misses a 1-and-1, SJ hits a quick 3 ... it's a 2-point game with 25 seconds left.
I mean, c'mon Sultan ... You saw the earlier SJ game. You saw the game at Creighton a few years ago - we were down 5 with like 5 seconds left and still came back to tie at the buzzer and then win in OT. You saw the Davidson NCAAT game. Those are just three off the top of my head where the situations were very similar.
Was it probably over? Sure, we can agree on that. Definitely over? No way; we're both old enough to have seen plenty of last-minute craziness on the court.
You'd win that bet ... and I'd be one of the rakers.
It was stunning that Pitino didn't foul there. And if he let himself get distracted by some silly confrontation with one of his own players, that's not an excuse, it's an indictment.
Agree. I turned to my buddy and said "wow, the HOFer is saying no mas early". Postgame, Pitino really had a bug up his azz about Soriano's stupid technical in particular and then we all saw the sideline interactions. Something is going on there.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 12, 2024, 11:42:50 AM
Agree. I turned to my buddy and said "wow, the HOFer is saying no mas early". Postgame, Pitino really had a bug up his azz about Soriano's stupid technical in particular and then we all saw the sideline interactions. Something is going on there.
What you saw was jealousy. Rick has a bunch of mercenary players who don't want to play together as a team. At some point that will change for him, but he is old. Does he have 4 or 5 more years of coaching to get a group of guys together like Marquette does? Who would bleed for each other and are incredibly smart players?
Time will tell.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 11:21:51 AM
You're just doing your "I said it, so even though evidence was presented that refutes what I said, I'll die on my hill" schtick.
Apparently, you also thought the Creighton and Davidson games were over. And you certainly were right about those.
Nope, nope and nope. You're now 0/3.
The game was probably over.
I wouldn't have cared if Shaka didn't foul in the same situation. I would guess SJU's win probability was less than 1%. It didn't matter.
I was happy they didn't foul, but only because it allowed us to leave 10 minutes earlier.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 12, 2024, 11:42:50 AM
Agree. I turned to my buddy and said "wow, the HOFer is saying no mas early". Postgame, Pitino really had a bug up his azz about Soriano's stupid technical in particular and then we all saw the sideline interactions. Something is going on there.
Maybe he's lost the locker room?!?
He said something to the effect of "you better bet they will listen to me and be ready next game!"
We will see slicky Ricky
Quote from: BM1090 on February 12, 2024, 01:00:20 PM
The game was probably over.
I wouldn't have cared if Shaka didn't foul in the same situation. I would guess SJU's win probability was less than 1%. It didn't matter.
I was happy they didn't foul, but only because it allowed us to leave 10 minutes earlier.
I think the reason they shoulda given it a go is that we were just hitting the bonus.
They extend the game and we are shooting 3, 1 and 1s.
That gives a lot more chance for chaos. And they saw us shooting 1 and 1 at MSG
My general rule for "game over" is "what's the most improbable comeback I've ever seen?". Answer for awhile has been TAMU down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa.
Ricky P threw in the towel early
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 12:39:35 PM
Nope, nope and nope. You're now 0/3.
What TAMU said. You're wrong. Enjoy the hill.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 06:56:09 PM
What TAMU said. You're wrong. Enjoy the hill.
You keeping saying it...but nope. Game was over. Signed, sealed and delivered.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:01:51 PM
You keeping saying it...but nope. Game was over. Signed, sealed and delivered.
I'm going to asking this. But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?
I looked up the PBP from that game last March. Here is the summary of the last 29 seconds after Mitchell made 2 FTs to put MU ahead 93-83. (Kolek had missed 2 FTs just before that.
The crowd was calling for Senior walk on Michael Kennedy, who was in the game, to get the ball for a shot.
:21. SJU makes 3 pointer 93-86.
:18 SJU steals inbound pass and makes 3 pointer 93-89. (I remember this shot being a rainbow fall away from the corner)
:16. Mitchell makes 2 FTs 95-89
:12. SJU makes 3 pointer and adds FT. 95-93. On the play Omax stumbled, tripped over the leg of a SJ player and fell into the shooter as he was banking in a 30 foot shot.
:11 Joplin misses 2 FTs.
:02. SJU misses shot but is fouled going for rebound. Makes first FT but misses second. 95-94.
:01 MUrebounds. Jones makes FT, misses second
:00 Final 96-94.
So, MU had a 10 point lead with 29 seconds left and SJ had a possession with 11 seconds left where they could have won with a 3.
Draw your own conclusion about whether an 8 point lead with a minute left means the game is over.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 12, 2024, 07:10:34 PM
I'm going to asking this. But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?
I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.
Saturday's game was 100% over.
This really is vintage Fluff stuff. Simply an amazing MU Scooper. He is simply a one of a kind personality.
https://youtu.be/DE1NOVXhT6s?si=ILn3_hF-XXllwjgZ
If you want to see the video of how this played out, just FF to near the end of this.
Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2024, 07:28:37 PM
This really is vintage Fluff stuff. Simply an amazing MU Scooper. He is simply a one of a kind personality.
Thank you.
Fluff
Huh?
https://youtu.be/DE1NOVXhT6s?si=ILn3_hF-XXllwjgZ
The TAM comeback down 12 with 44 seconds left.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:24:08 PM
I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.
Saturday's game was 100% over.
Factually it was not over. There was still time on the clock
If we are gonna be obnoxiously stubborn enough to throw out false percentages.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 12, 2024, 07:59:47 PM
Factually it was not over. There was still time on the clock
If we are gonna be obnoxiously stubborn enough to throw out false percentages.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
It was over.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 12, 2024, 07:10:34 PM
I'm going to asking this. But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?
MU is down 10 with 42 seconds against <insert favored opponent> on the road in a regular season game. <insert star player> blows out his knee trying to "play it out" and is done for the season and MU loses first round of the tourney. Was it worth it?
Most college coaches pull back the horses when it is out of reach so they can fight another day.
Now compare that to most of the examples provided. If you are in the tournament and you lose your season is done anyway. The risk/probability of injury justifies a hard push to the end. You can't do that for every game.
The St John's game last year was on Sr day and they put Kennedy in with 30 seconds to play because he was the only sr. That threw MU's entire defense/offense out of whack. I don't think they got him out until the second three. That doesn't happen in every game and the result still had St John's losing.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 08:01:31 PM
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
It was over.
Its actually how TK got 27 point instead of 24.
Game continued on
8-)
Went back and watched the game again. The fans had been cheering to bring in Kennedy. Shaka sent him in between two misses from Kolek at the line up 8.
Mitchell steals the ball and was trying to get it to Kennedy to shoot but is fouled. Mitchell makes both FTs. MU up 10. St John's comes down the court and Kennedy has no idea what to do and leaves St John's open for a 3. MU tries to quickly inbound in an attempt to get Kennedy a shot. St John's hits tip toe shot in the corner.
MU is up 4 with 16 left and every is booing Shaka for taking Kennedy out.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:24:08 PM
I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.
Saturday's game was 100% over.
I was correct, i did regret it
This is getting to old Ners levels of late.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 12, 2024, 08:19:10 PM
Went back and watched the game again. The fans had been cheering to bring in Kennedy. Shaka sent him in between two misses from Kolek at the line up 8.
Mitchell steals the ball and was trying to get it to Kennedy to shoot but is fouled. Mitchell makes both FTs. MU up 10. St John's comes down the court and Kennedy has no idea what to do and leaves St John's open for a 3. MU tries to quickly inbound in an attempt to get Kennedy a shot. St John's hits tip toe shot in the corner.
MU is up 4 with 16 left and every is booing Shaka for taking Kennedy out.
Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with the 2 threes SJ made to cut the lead from 10 to 4.
And players are just as likely to get injured in practice as in the last minute of a game that has turned into intentional fouls and quick 3 point shots or uncontested drives to the basket.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 12, 2024, 07:10:34 PM
I'm going to asking this. But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?
Facts no matta when there's a hill to die on.
Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.
Quote from: wisblue on February 12, 2024, 10:25:33 PM
Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with the 2 threes SJ made to cut the lead from 10 to 4.
And players are just as likely to get injured in practice as in the last minute of a game that has turned into intentional fouls and quick 3 point shots or uncontested drives to the basket.
https://youtu.be/DFff-o6kFR8?si=nVmvD26p_Glp8r5F
Start at the 1:13:30 mark. Prior to this St John's had pretty much given up. At this point St John's is bringing the ball up with OMax guarding the ball handler. Kennedy is standing 20ft away from his man who brush screens OMax off the ball handler putting him a step behind. Kennedy is directly in the path and he gives up at least 5 ft back pedaling into the lane with no defensive pressure on the ball. Mitchell at this point needs to help contain and starts to collapse on the ball handler who passes it back out. Bang. 1st three. You can also see Kolek coming off his man in the corner to help out. He was out of position and then didn't commit to anything.
For the next inbounds play he basically is out of the picture but the crowd was begging the players to get him the ball to score so Kolek tries to quickly get the ball in to get it up the court. He didn't see Jones who hits a circus shot. Remember, I said he was out of the picture well guess who comes running into the frame bringing his defender right into the bench side corner where...
Next inbounds ball gets to Mitchell in the corner Kennedy is back pedaling away from the ball along the sideline in a position a player would normally look to make a clearance pass. Mitchell looks at him and proceeds to look elsewhere before getting trapped in the corner and calling a timeout. He is probably 15 ft away from Mitchell and guess whose man came to double team Mitchell. You guessed it. Kennedy's.
During this whole sequence it was basically 5-4. When you give up two threes in 11 seconds it changes the game.
Kennedy should never have been in the game but Shaka was trying to appease the faithful and give him 36.6 seconds.
Most teams extend the game there, but MU broke their will to compete. They took their best player out. They quit. Would be pretty upset if MU did that.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 10:55:54 PM
Facts no matta when there's a hill to die on.
Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.
Nope. Wrong again. Got the drama turned up to 11 I see.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 10:55:54 PM
Facts no matta when there's a hill to die on.
Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.
Is it 100% over if the players aren't giving 110%? I'm not good at math.
By all means, keep at it guys. I'm sure you'll convince him one of these posts. You're so close. I'm sure of it.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 12, 2024, 11:16:34 PM
https://youtu.be/DFff-o6kFR8?si=nVmvD26p_Glp8r5F
Start at the 1:13:30 mark. Prior to this St John's had pretty much given up. At this point St John's is bringing the ball up with OMax guarding the ball handler. Kennedy is standing 20ft away from his man who brush screens OMax off the ball handler putting him a step behind. Kennedy is directly in the path and he gives up at least 5 ft back pedaling into the lane with no defensive pressure on the ball. Mitchell at this point needs to help contain and starts to collapse on the ball handler who passes it back out. Bang. 1st three. You can also see Kolek coming off his man in the corner to help out. He was out of position and then didn't commit to anything.
For the next inbounds play he basically is out of the picture but the crowd was begging the players to get him the ball to score so Kolek tries to quickly get the ball in to get it up the court. He didn't see Jones who hits a circus shot. Remember, I said he was out of the picture well guess who comes running into the frame bringing his defender right into the bench side corner where...
Next inbounds ball gets to Mitchell in the corner Kennedy is back pedaling away from the ball along the sideline in a position a player would normally look to make a clearance pass. Mitchell looks at him and proceeds to look elsewhere before getting trapped in the corner and calling a timeout. He is probably 15 ft away from Mitchell and guess whose man came to double team Mitchell. You guessed it. Kennedy's.
During this whole sequence it was basically 5-4. When you give up two threes in 11 seconds it changes the game.
Kennedy should never have been in the game but Shaka was trying to appease the faithful and give him 36.6 seconds.
If you look above, I already watched and posted the link to this video.
Your description blaming this on Kennedy is factually wrong.
On the first 3 Kennedy backpedals on a guy driving into the lane, correctly not wanting to foul. The ball is kicked out to a player who hits a 3. No big deal, MU still up 7 with 20 seconds left. But, if anyone made a mistake there, it was Mitchell collapsing off his man at the 3 point line to help out against someone who at worst could have made a layup. Guarding against the 3 would have made more sense.
On the inbound pass, Kennedy is out of the picture, taking a SJ player with him, so it is essentially 4 on 4 in the front court. Kolek throws in to Oso, who doesn't go aggressively to the ball and a SJ defender strips it away and makes the circus shot from the corner. Kolek was not rushing the inbound pass to get the ball up court. He was trying to get it in before SJ could set up a press, which is pretty common practice.
And on the next inbound play, Mitchell does not call timeout. He is trapped in the corner and is fouled. Kennedy comes out of the game while Mitchell makes his two free throws.
In MUs game against Butler, MU fouled down by 8 with 30 seconds left. So apparently Shaka disagrees with the idea that continuing to play hard and extend the game is putting the team's postseason prospects at risk.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 04:04:10 AM
Nope. Wrong again. Got the drama turned up to 11 I see.
Facts = "drama"
Quote from: wisblue on February 13, 2024, 05:39:41 AM
If you look above, I already watched and posted the link to this video.
Your description blaming this on Kennedy is factually wrong.
On the first 3 Kennedy backpedals on a guy driving into the lane, correctly not wanting to foul. The ball is kicked out to a player who hits a 3. No big deal, MU still up 7 with 20 seconds left. But, if anyone made a mistake there, it was Mitchell collapsing off his man at the 3 point line to help out against someone who at worst could have made a layup. Guarding against the 3 would have made more sense.
On the inbound pass, Kennedy is out of the picture, taking a SJ player with him, so it is essentially 4 on 4 in the front court. Kolek throws in to Oso, who doesn't go aggressively to the ball and a SJ defender strips it away and makes the circus shot from the corner. Kolek was not rushing the inbound pass to get the ball up court. He was trying to get it in before SJ could set up a press, which is pretty common practice.
And on the next inbound play, Mitchell does not call timeout. He is trapped in the corner and is fouled. Kennedy comes out of the game while Mitchell makes his two free throws.
In MUs game against Butler, MU fouled down by 8 with 30 seconds left. So apparently Shaka disagrees with the idea that continuing to play hard and extend the game is putting the team's postseason prospects at risk.
Mistake 1: he should have been up next to his man so he could step out and apply some pressure on the ball. Had he been OMax would have recovered. He was 20 ft away.
Mistake 2: he is in no man's land and doesn't commit to stopping the ball. Instead gives up more ground letting the ball hander get into the heart of the defense. I believe it was Addae-Wusu who goes from basically the half court stripe to the free throw line without anyone making him change direction. At that point defense is exposed. Who should picked him up? if he picked him up at the three point line A-W would have had to run some offense or taken a contested three.
Mistake 3: since he back pedaled so much and applied no defensive pressure very little time came off the clock before their first score.
You said he wasn't involved with the first two threes. Those three things lead to the first three without them actually having to play half court offense. You can say Mitchell was to blame but if you notice Kolek also comes to the ball leaving his man too.
You can hear it in the crowd, no big deal just one three so get the ball to Kennedy to shoot. He was going the court to get to a spot.
Mistake 4: the job of the team with the lead is take as much time off of the clock as possible. When Mitchell is in the corner the ball should have gone to Kennedy who could have taken the ball to at least half court. The problem is he is moving away from the ball which makes for a very dangerous pass.
Those are all facts that are factually correct.
Here is another fact in no other game then Sr Day with 36.6 seconds is he in the game up 10 and his presence impacted the game. maybe it just pissed SJ's off enough to care but his lack of defense caused the first three directly.
Quote from: wisblue on February 12, 2024, 10:25:33 PM
Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with the 2 threes SJ made to cut the lead from 10 to 4.
And players are just as likely to get injured in practice as in the last minute of a game that has turned into intentional fouls and quick 3 point shots or uncontested drives to the basket.
Or walking onto a football field.
49ers LB Dre Greenlaw exits Super Bowl with Achilles tendon injury that occurred as he ran on field
82
It is not the time to leave anything to chance. Crazy things can happen late in the game. MU almost came back to tie up SH earlier this season when they fell behind double digits very late in the game. Now, as a fan I can think, or say, a game is over, but that is my opinion. At this time of the year, you need to close out games and not jag around. So, I agree with you, the game was not a slam dunk win and think they played it out the right way. Plus, some folks won some money by them closing it out.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2024, 07:27:19 AM
Facts = "drama"
Typical sportswriter who doesn't understand what the word "facts" mean.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 07:46:39 AM
Typical sportswriter who doesn't understand what the word "facts" mean.
Wow, that was really dramatic.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2024, 08:15:09 AM
Wow, that was really dramatic.
I guess Sultan slept on that hill last night
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 07:46:39 AM
Typical sportswriter who doesn't understand what the word "facts" mean.
You gotta let Rocky know they accidentally posted the wrong score for the game Saturday.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 13, 2024, 07:27:31 AM
Mistake 1: he should have been up next to his man so he could step out and apply some pressure on the ball. Had he been OMax would have recovered. He was 20 ft away.
Mistake 2: he is in no man's land and doesn't commit to stopping the ball. Instead gives up more ground letting the ball hander get into the heart of the defense. I believe it was Addae-Wusu who goes from basically the half court stripe to the free throw line without anyone making him change direction. At that point defense is exposed. Who should picked him up? if he picked him up at the three point line A-W would have had to run some offense or taken a contested three.
Mistake 3: since he back pedaled so much and applied no defensive pressure very little time came off the clock before their first score.
You said he wasn't involved with the first two threes. Those three things lead to the first three without them actually having to play half court offense. You can say Mitchell was to blame but if you notice Kolek also comes to the ball leaving his man too.
You can hear it in the crowd, no big deal just one three so get the ball to Kennedy to shoot. He was going the court to get to a spot.
Mistake 4: the job of the team with the lead is take as much time off of the clock as possible. When Mitchell is in the corner the ball should have gone to Kennedy who could have taken the ball to at least half court. The problem is he is moving away from the ball which makes for a very dangerous pass.
Those are all facts that are factually correct.
Here is another fact in no other game then Sr Day with 36.6 seconds is he in the game up 10 and his presence impacted the game. maybe it just pissed SJ's off enough to care but his lack of defense caused the first three directly.
Suffice it to say that I disagree with your opinion that Kennedy made any mistakes on defense on that first 3.
Anyone who cares can look at the video and see for themselves that he backed off to avoid a foul and kept his hands up.
Mitchell's unnecessary "help" led to the wide open 3. Kolek moved in but his man was in the opposite corner and no threat to receive a pass given where the ball was.
It is true that Kennedy was only in the game because of senior day, but that doesn't change the fact that crazy things can happen in the last 30 seconds, much less the last full minute. His role in what happened was nowhere as dramatic as you're making it out to be, if it had any effect at all.
Quote from: wisblue on February 13, 2024, 08:42:57 AM
Suffice it to say that I disagree with your opinion that Kennedy made any mistakes on defense on that first 3.
Anyone who cares can look at the video and see for themselves that he backed off to avoid a foul and kept his hands up.
Mitchell's unnecessary "help" led to the wide open 3. Kolek moved in but his man was in the opposite corner and no threat to receive a pass given where the ball was.
It is true that Kennedy was only in the game because of senior day, but that doesn't change the fact that crazy things can happen in the last 30 seconds, much less the last full minute. His role in what happened was nowhere as dramatic as you're making it out to be, if it had any effect at all.
We can agree to disagree.
Yes crazy things can happen. We can all agree to that but it is also very common for teams to shut it down during the regular season when it is out of reach. This is the only example provided where crazy things happened when it wasn't the tournament but when you break it down it wasn't a normal regular season game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFMD8AkkWg
Here's a regular season game I remember watching last year.
Iowa trailed MSU by 13 with 1:30 left and still trailed by 10 with 40 seconds left. But they kept pressing and fouling and draining 3's, forced the game into OT, and went on to win. And, for the most part, MSU was making its free throws until one that could have given them a 4 point lead with 10 seconds left.
I'm glad that Pitino opted to give up and remove the possibility of this kind of finish. It saved us some time and possible aggravation.
Quote from: wisblue on February 13, 2024, 12:12:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFMD8AkkWg
Here's a regular season game I remember watching last year.
Iowa trailed MSU by 13 with 1:30 left and still trailed by 10 with 40 seconds left. But they kept pressing and fouling and draining 3's, forced the game into OT, and went on to win. And, for the most part, MSU was making its free throws until one that could have given them a 4 point lead with 10 seconds left.
I'm glad that Pitino opted to give up and remove the possibility of this kind of finish. It saved us some time and possible aggravation.
I remember that one. Was at the bar for brunch watching it before MU played later
Wild ending.
Quote from: wisblue on February 13, 2024, 12:12:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFMD8AkkWg
Here's a regular season game I remember watching last year.
Iowa trailed MSU by 13 with 1:30 left and still trailed by 10 with 40 seconds left. But they kept pressing and fouling and draining 3's, forced the game into OT, and went on to win. And, for the most part, MSU was making its free throws until one that could have given them a 4 point lead with 10 seconds left.
I'm glad that Pitino opted to give up and remove the possibility of this kind of finish. It saved us some time and possible aggravation.
The game right before that one was Iowa down 13 against Wisconsin on the road with 2 minutes left. Didn't foul a single time. Why didn't they do the same thing?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay/_/gameId/401484967
Quote from: wisblue on February 13, 2024, 12:12:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFMD8AkkWg
I'm glad that Pitino opted to give up and remove the possibility of this kind of finish. It saved us some time and possible aggravation.
Yep. I was stunned that he gave up, but I was happy he did.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2024, 02:39:33 PM
Yep. I was stunned that he gave up, but I was happy he did.
I realize it's a different league and different rules, but the Cavaliers were down 10 last night with 1:15 left. They cut it to one with about nine seconds left, fouled, and then got the ball back down two with six seconds left. Had a good shot in the air to win it at the buzzer. Admittedly, they did lose.
I'm not trying to convince anyone -- everyone's respective positions are well established -- but I also was surprised that Pitino conceded with a minute left.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 13, 2024, 03:00:21 PM
I realize it's a different league and different rules, but the Cavaliers were down 10 last night with 1:15 left. They cut it to one with about nine seconds left, fouled, and then got the ball back down two with six seconds left. Had a good shot in the air to win it at the buzzer. Admittedly, they did lose.
I'm not trying to convince anyone -- everyone's respective positions are well established -- but I also was surprised that Pitino conceded with a minute left.
Same. When they let MU run the clock with a minute to go it felt like he was just throwing in the towel.
Sure, the came may have been over, but I'm not sure he was sending the right message to his team.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 13, 2024, 02:33:19 PM
The game right before that one was Iowa down 13 against Wisconsin on the road with 2 minutes left. Didn't foul a single time. Why didn't they do the same thing?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay/_/gameId/401484967
Not sure how relevant this is to the point that crazy things can happen late in a game.
I wouldn't expect a team to start fouling with 2 minutes left and, looking at that PBP, by the time it got to a minute left, they were down by 15. Then they hit a 3 to cut it to 12 and got the ball back on a turnover but missed their next shot.
Apparently down 12 with 39 seconds left when the Badgers got the rebound, McCaffrey decided it wasn't their night.
Down 12 with 40 seconds left is a lot different than down 8 with a minute left. And when you've scored 52 points for the night and shot 3 for 28 from three, it seems like a good time to throw in the towel.