MUScoop

I was updating the "Season Accomplishment" post and just can't get over how much Shaka has already done in 2.5 years. Some of this might just be comparing to the baseline of the last guy, but it's really amazing the consistency in what his teams have accomplished since he took over. Of course there is a lot of ball yet to be played this year and the glaring gap of major NCAAT success, but I think most of us are convinced Shaka is the guy for the long term.

If you think/hope Shaka should retire a warrior, it begs the question of if/when MU should offer him a lifetime contract. I tried to do some digging and could only find Self's, K's and Calipari's.  I don't know if the knowers of ball out there are aware of others. It looks like Nova (fans at least) entertained it for Wright in 2019, and Pitino and Iona might have had talks about it. I don't see anything about Few or Roy Williams and can't think of many other coaches who might be plausible candidates.

Obviously a huge (mutual) commitment - and Shaka's $3 million is no where near Calipari's $9 or Self's $10, but it doesn't seem like it's something that wouldn't be out of the question at some point. Or, in today's rapidly changing NIL/Conference/Everything else environment, does it never make sense to lock into that type of commitment (and presumably there would still be (potentially costly) outs). Are these kinds of contracts strictly the preserve of blue bloods? Or if it came to it, would MU be able to pony up the dough for lifetime kind of money?

For me, I think either cutting down the nets at any point, or multiple FF or better seasons would do it - that would put him in the Al echelon - but it wouldn't have MU in blue blood territory - that's multiple championships at a minimum. Obviously a huge lift to get there, but the man just so embodies what MUBB should be about.

In general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

Never,  they're a dumb idea.

But let's get through one recruiting cycle before we start declaring Shaka for life. I'm absolutely in love,  but we need to see how Shaka builds after losing TKo/Oso

If we give Shaka a lifetime contract, we won't be able to hire Brian Wardle

Philosophically opposed.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 07:09:04 AM
Never,  they're a dumb idea.

But let's get through one recruiting cycle before we start declaring Shaka for life. I'm absolutely in love,  but we need to see how Shaka builds after losing TKo/Oso

5 years to judge.

"Thinking outside the box" is one of the most common cliche's, but it fits here. If Shaka would like Marquette to help him in setting up and assisting in community projects in and around Milwaukee, that, along with generous salary increases, may accomplish the goal of keeping him at Marquette for a very long time.

His interests extend well beyond basketball, and he's a thinker and a doer. He's a Renaissance man. Make not just Marquette but Milwaukee his base and the lifetime contract concept will be accomplished.   

Let's make it to the second weekend first. <ducks>

Besides, I believe he has a rollover contract already. Technically a lifetime contract.

Give me five more years of Shaka and the rest is a bonus, imo. I hope he retires from MU, but these are crazy times in college sports and I'm going to enjoy one game at a time.

Quote from: 1SE on February 09, 2024, 07:17:56 AM
5 years to judge.

No that was the old standard. Insta-transfers have changed the standard.  That being said,  you want to at least make sure you don't have a Brady Belichiek situation on your hands

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 09, 2024, 07:30:03 AM
Let's make it to the second weekend first. <ducks>

Besides, I believe he has a rollover contract already. Technically a lifetime contract.

Don't duck when you're right.  We all love Shaka but losses in early rounds will not keep MU on the trajectory we all want. 

Good news is that hurdle will be jumped this year and we won't have to think about it anymore.

How about partial ownership?

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 09, 2024, 07:48:58 AM
How about partial ownership?

He can always just have his parents pay for school and be designated a walk on to free up a scholly.

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 09, 2024, 07:47:05 AM
Don't duck when you're right.  We all love Shaka but losses in early rounds will not keep MU on the trajectory we all want. 

Good news is that hurdle will be jumped this year and we won't have to think about it anymore.

I am often right at home but that doesn't preclude me from ducking often.

Win two ncaa tournament games this March or launch the idiot, er, Coach Smart, and go hard for Gard.

Quote from: Viper on February 09, 2024, 08:05:35 AM
Win two ncaa tournament games this March or launch the idiot, er, Coach Smart, and go hard for Gard.

I don't even think Bucky Badger is as obsessed with UW as much as you are.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 07:46:48 AM
No that was the old standard. Insta-transfers have changed the standard.  That being said,  you want to at least make sure you don't have a Brady Belichiek situation on your hands

No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches. 

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 09, 2024, 07:59:03 AM
I am often right at home but that doesn't preclude me from ducking often.

LOL

What if Lovell adopts him?

Quote from: cheebs09 on February 09, 2024, 08:41:15 AM
What if Lovell adopts him?

Viper out.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 08:19:36 AM
No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches. 

My recollection is, that while he was criticizing the Buzz search process, he was justifying why they gave him a six year deal.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 08:19:36 AM
No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches.

There was wisdom behind it. Get though an entire recruiting cycle,  make sure a coach can win with their own players not just the last coach's players. Things are different now. Slick Rick chased off all but one Johnnie and completely replaced the roster in a single offseason. Insta transfers means you can rebuild a lot quicker

Contracts pretty much don't matter. Coaches and schools break them quite regularly. KO, Crean and Wojo were all under contract to Marquette, but that didn't stop them from either leaving or being told to leave.

The most interesting thing from this comment stream so far is how many Scoopers are saying, "Prove it," re Shaka. And I'm not saying folks are wrong. It might be a crapshoot, but March is where the great coaches separate themselves from the rest. Even great coaches have early exits sometimes (and even mediocre coaches have won in the NCAAT), but over time, great coaches have success in March (and even April).

And I always find the whole "loyalty" thing to be interesting. We want a coach who won't use Marquette as a stepping stone and who makes MU his forever assignment. Be loyal to us, dammit!! But if our team flames out the next 2-3 Marches, how loyal will MU fans be to Shaka? How many will boo him when he's introduced before games? Which bazillionaires will be offering to pay his buyout?

I know that's how the game is played - and so does Shaka - but still.

OK, enough silly speculation from me. We're winning big in the NCAAT this year, so all of the above is moot!

Quote from: MU82 on February 09, 2024, 10:15:40 AM
Contracts pretty much don't matter. Coaches and schools break them quite regularly. KO, Crean and Wojo were all under contract to Marquette, but that didn't stop them from either leaving or being told to leave.

The most interesting thing from this comment stream so far is how many Scoopers are saying, "Prove it," re Shaka. And I'm not saying folks are wrong. It might be a crapshoot, but March is where the great coaches separate themselves from the rest. Even great coaches have early exits sometimes (and even mediocre coaches have won in the NCAAT), but over time, great coaches have success in March (and even April).

And I always find the whole "loyalty" thing to be interesting. We want a coach who won't use Marquette as a stepping stone and who makes MU his forever assignment. Be loyal to us, dammit!! But if our team flames out the next 2-3 Marches, how loyal will MU fans be to Shaka? How many will boo him when he's introduced before games? Which bazillionaires will be offering to pay his buyout?

I know that's how the game is played - and so does Shaka - but still.

OK, enough silly speculation from me. We're winning big in the NCAAT this year, so all of the above is moot!

Getting too big for your britches is definitely a thing look at Vanderbilt with Stallings... and Pitt with Dixon. Or even Texas ushering Shaka out. If Shaka consistently has us top 3 in the BE (realistic given we're about the 4th best program historically with the 3rd being a disaster) then we're going to be in the tournament every year & bound to make a run at some point. We may get restless after awhile but hopefully nobody's stupid enough to start calling for his job.

NolongerWarriors is on Line 1...

I miss him.   Always good for a belly laugh.

The -"now, Shakaholic" option was pretty much just to give the full range, but I'm wondering about the "neverers" - if we succeed in becoming a blue blood (however you define it) don't you want/he deserves a lifetime contract?

And I know they don't mean anything at the end of the day, but they must mean enough to K and Self and Calipari for them to be a thing - three programs whose success I wouldn't mind having (but the "Shaka-way).

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2024, 08:15:34 AM
I don't even think Bucky Badger is as obsessed with UW as much as you are.

G A R D !!

Quote from: 1SE on February 09, 2024, 11:52:39 AM
The -"now, Shakaholic" option was pretty much just to give the full range, but I'm wondering about the "neverers" - if we succeed in becoming a blue blood (however you define it) don't you want/he deserves a lifetime contract?

And I know they don't mean anything at the end of the day, but they must mean enough to K and Self and Calipari for them to be a thing - three programs whose success I wouldn't mind having (but the "Shaka-way).

I think if not all, almost all coaches have very healthy egos, but Shaka's easily fits into the Al and probably a decent sized room as well. Calipari and K? Theirs won't fit into the largest FB stadiums. As I wrote in my earlier post, my guess is that there are a number of things more important to Shaka, and some of those have nothing to do with basketball.

I guess what I am asking is " Does a lifetime contract mean much to Shaka?" I think not.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 08:56:18 AM
There was wisdom behind it. Get though an entire recruiting cycle,  make sure a coach can win with their own players not just the last coach's players. Things are different now. Slick Rick chased off all but one Johnnie and completely replaced the roster in a single offseason. Insta transfers means you can rebuild a lot quicker

Maybe and sometimes sure. My guess is the more important factor was it fit the narrative of the day.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 01:41:46 PM
Maybe and sometimes sure. My guess is the more important factor was it fit the narrative of the day.

Bingo.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2024, 06:24:26 AM
In general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

Or for fans. Honeymooned end.

Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 09, 2024, 11:45:53 AM
NolongerWarriors is on Line 1...

He doesn't count ... and, sadly, he wasn't the only one who called for Shaka's job after Year 1.

Hypothetical. And frankly, quite likely one>>>

After leading Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen, with their eyes set on a Final Four......

Shaka Smart is being mentioned as a successor to the recently fired John Calipari at Kentucky and Mike Woodson at Indiana.

If I'm anyone who is anyone at Marquette, I'm drawing something up as we speak. If only to quiet the carousel speculation, which can be a serious distraction for any team, let alone one capable of winning an NCAA title.

I really really hope Shaka is very happy here.

Building a new house in Fox Point, l can not say forever, but he has a sweet deal here!  Who wants the pressure at both of those schools, he is the main man here with no football!

Quote from: GoFastAndWin on February 10, 2024, 08:59:42 PM
Hypothetical. And frankly, quite likely one>>>

After leading Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen, with their eyes set on a Final Four......

Shaka Smart is being mentioned as a successor to the recently fired John Calipari at Kentucky and Mike Woodson at Indiana.

If I'm anyone who is anyone at Marquette, I'm drawing something up as we speak. If only to quiet the carousel speculation, which can be a serious distraction for any team, let alone one capable of winning an NCAA title.

I really really hope Shaka is very happy here.

I totally agree that if Kentucky and/or Indiana have vacancies, they could reach out to Shaka. I also am not naive enough to think that Shaka is already committed to stay at MU for the rest of his career.

At the same time, I believe that Shaka's Texas experience is still fresh in his mind. He was attacked endlessly, even by a fan base more focused on football. My gut says he realizes that entering the hellscape of a blueblood like UK or IU is not what he wants.

GoFast

Shaka had delivered at the highest level and I appreciate every game he has coached at MU. If he decides to go elsewhere I am good with that. He proved that MU is a fxxkin basketball school and can compete at the highest level nationally.

I am not going to spend one second worrying about his tenure at MU. I am going to enjoy watching the best basketball that I have seen since I was in grade school.

Goose.
Well-said.

Lifetime contracts are stupid. Am I seeing this right that Cal has a 33 mil buy-out?

Shaka so good. When the time comes are we going to be able to pay him the $8-9 million that he'll deserve?

Quote from: 1SE on December 03, 2024, 04:40:45 AMShaka so good. When the time comes are we going to be able to pay him the $8-9 million that he'll deserve?

Yes. See NIL Thread. Marquette has a top 15 budget in the country.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 03, 2024, 07:06:09 AMYes. See NIL Thread. Marquette has a top 15 budget in the country.

<sigh>

That budget includes the rent we pay for Fiserv. Its not an apples to apples comparison to other schools around the country. Yes, we have very nice budget for a private, non-football school. But we really need to stop throwing this budget figure around like its gospel.

Regardless, there is no need for a lifetime contract. Just keep extending him. If Shaka wants to leave, he will leave.

I'll say it again this year, if Shaka were to leave, he would get a big thank you from me and a long standing ovation. He proved MU can play at a high level nationally and owes this fan nothing beyond that.

Hopefully he is here for the long haul and continues to build the program in the manner he and the school envisions. Nothing is forever, especially in sports, and I would never fault Shaka for chasing his dreams. IMO, he has exceeded my extremely high expectations when he was hired and I very much enjoy the product he has put on the court.

Quote from: Goose on December 03, 2024, 08:36:01 AMI'll say it again this year, if Shaka were to leave, he would get a big thank you from me and a long standing ovation. He proved MU can play at a high level nationally and owes this fan nothing beyond that.

Hopefully he is here for the long haul and continues to build the program in the manner he and the school envisions. Nothing is forever, especially in sports, and I would never fault Shaka for chasing his dreams. IMO, he has exceeded my extremely high expectations when he was hired and I very much enjoy the product he has put on the court.

Well said Goose. But I think it will be a while before that day comes. Shaka is the real deal, says what he means and means what he days. I think he's enjoying the ride even more than you and me as well as many other scoopers, as difficult as that may be to believe.

Snoop

He sure has provided an excited journey thus far. Beat UW on Saturday and that box is checked and then hopefully a long ride in the spring. That said, while I want to win in April, it is amazing the excitement created for games throughout the season. If someone would have told me there would be 100's of MU fans and Goolsby's watching a game at 10am in November I would not have believed it.

Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 09, 2024, 06:24:26 AMIn general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

This. Buzz's automatic, annual 5-year rolling contact with a minuscule buyout wasn't the best decision MU has ever made.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 03, 2024, 08:57:27 AMThis. Buzz's automatic, annual 5-year rolling contact with a minuscule buyout wasn't the best decision MU has ever made.

Really? I think the contract worked fine. I think each party got what they wanted when he left. I'm not sure, but I feel like huge buyouts sound great, until you get in a Wojo situation.

Details of contracts are what matters.

Marriage is a "lifetime contract", aina?

Hopefully all parties remain happy and we continue to win every day.

The best indication for Shaka's longevity at Marquette is this freshman class and the incoming 2025 class. The near future for MUBB is exceedingly bright. Coaches don't generally leave when their teams project as perennial national contenders.

Quote from: Tyler COLEk on December 03, 2024, 04:18:46 PMCoaches don't generally leave when their teams project as perennial national contenders.

Crean says hi (or says Bye)

Shaka is perfect for Marquette and vice versa. He's seen the other side. I'm gonna be Mr. Optimist and say he ain't going anywhere - whether or not he gets a "lifetime" contract (which would mean diddly-squat).

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2024, 04:22:46 PMCrean says hi (or says Bye)

I almost included: particularly coaches who have already had a taste of a blue blood and don't seem to aspire to get back there. I think the throwback, four-year retention strategy has Shaka has built at Marquette doesn't fit at blue bloods.

Quote from: Tyler COLEk on December 03, 2024, 04:24:54 PMI almost included: particularly coaches who have already had a taste of a blue blood and don't seem to aspire to get back there. I think the throwback, four-year retention strategy has Shaka has built at Marquette doesn't fit at blue bloods.

I don't think Shakas leaving unless he doesn't get along with the new Pres or AD.

That said Texas isn't exactly a blue blood, they're closer to us than Nova in terms of Tradition let alone Duke KU UK UNC etc. So if Shaka truly wanted a taste of that experience I don't think Texas would've quenched that thirst.

We've all seen so called "lifetime" contracts are easy for either side to get out of, so I wouldn't recommend that. What I do recommend is an eternal contract, binding the university to the coach past the lifetime of either, until the heat death of the universe.

Quote from: THRILLHO on December 03, 2024, 05:05:59 PMWe've all seen so called "lifetime" contracts are easy for either side to get out of, so I wouldn't recommend that. What I do recommend is an eternal contract, binding the university to the coach past the lifetime of either, until the heat death of the universe.

A Herman contract

Quote from: MU82 on December 03, 2024, 04:23:22 PMShaka is perfect for Marquette and vice versa. He's seen the other side. I'm gonna be Mr. Optimist and say he ain't going anywhere - whether or not he gets a "lifetime" contract (which would mean diddly-squat).

I know life happens and this is just a talking point, but I genuinely can't think of a better marriage of coach and program.

I would hope Shaka feels the same and recognizes he can continue to win forever here.

IMO. This is mostly speculation. But i expect shaka stays at marquette for nearly all or nearly the rest of his career, until shaka decides to retire. But I expect Shaka to retire at a "young" age relative to other basketball coaches, mostly because he has already been doing this for so long.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2024, 04:36:40 PMI don't think Shakas leaving unless he doesn't get along with the new Pres or AD.

That said Texas isn't exactly a blue blood, they're closer to us than Nova in terms of Tradition let alone Duke KU UK UNC etc. So if Shaka truly wanted a taste of that experience I don't think Texas would've quenched that thirst.

No, Texas isn't a basketball blue blood, but it is a big-time, big-bucks, big-pressure school in what was then the #1 basketball conference. Shaka felt pressure to recruit 1-and-dones and other big-name players - guys the blue bloods really wanted and guys who didn't always buy into the team game.

He couldn't coach there the way he really wanted to. It might as well have been a blue blood.

A fun(ny) read.

What was interesting were comments from all the people who no longer post here.

Oh

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 03, 2024, 06:28:19 PMI know life happens and this is just a talking point, but I genuinely can't think of a better marriage of coach and program.

I would hope Shaka feels the same and recognizes he can continue to win forever here.

Still feel the exact same. I hope be recognizes that this is a place he can win big at for a long time. That will come with an occasional talent replenishment from the portal like we need this offseason.

I'd love for him to become synonymous with Marquette like Mark Few has become with Gonzaga or Izzo with Michigan State or Matt Painter with Purdue, etc. Because that would mean a whole bunch of winning here just like he's done so far.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 23, 2025, 11:42:39 PMStill feel the exact same. I hope be recognizes that this is a place he can win big at for a long time. That will come with an occasional talent replenishment from the portal like we need this offseason.

I'd love for him to become synonymous with Marquette like Mark Few has become with Gonzaga or Izzo with Michigan State or Matt Painter with Purdue, etc. Because that would mean a whole bunch of winning here just like he's done so far.

Only if he hires Wojo to do the recruiting.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 23, 2025, 11:42:39 PMStill feel the exact same. I hope be recognizes that this is a place he can win big at for a long time. That will come with an occasional talent replenishment from the portal like we need this offseason.

I'd love for him to become synonymous with Marquette like Mark Few has become with Gonzaga or Izzo with Michigan State or Matt Painter with Purdue, etc. Because that would mean a whole bunch of winning here just like he's done so far.


A sane and very well stated post.  Thanks you!

I should end my post here as it said it well. The number of crybabies and entitled people is somewhat amazing to me. And yes, I realize we have some long term trolls on here who are allowed to continue to post and some with entitled  reactive baby views over and over.

Portal or no portal there will be down years with every team. even the most successful and biggest best funded teams. We should not be trying to compete the same way as everyone else. Patience is needed. Let the system work and adjust. But let's not be the same as everyone or we will be meddling for eternity.

There will be some adjustments and learning, but I like the general approach of Shaka. Looking forward to the future and having Shaka for a long time, long time, and hopefully he feels the same way. He and the players represent the school well. That matters aas well. A duel mandate at Marquette.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 23, 2025, 11:42:39 PMI'd love for him to become synonymous with Marquette like Mark Few has become with Gonzaga or Izzo with Michigan State or Matt Painter with Purdue, etc. Because that would mean a whole bunch of winning here just like he's done so far.

Yes. Pretty much Shaka is the same guy as Few, whose only year not dancing was the covid-shortened season. His down years look like Shaka's best years. C'mon now.

This year is so bad I don't know if he can come back from it.

Goo,  again,  this is no normal down year.  People won't show up to see this.  You have to understand how bad this product is.  I agree that Shaka is theoretically the right person for the job long term but he must get better recruiters as assistants and use the portal effectively.

It's not about whiners and babies as you say.  It's about $$$!!! And it's about players.  Players who thought they were being recruited to a top 25 type team.  Freshman and sophomores who will jump ship not because of RGV but because they came to MU to compete at the highest level and have been completely let down.  Will be some interesting Christmas dinners this year with players families.

Down years are acceptable.  Destroying the program is unacceptable. Shaka did not hit a speed bump, he smashed the car into a brick wall. When it is this bad there is a chance things unravel quickly.

Lord knows we would all take a .500 reword right now.  Hopefully, Shaka turns it around quickly.  GREAT representative of the school,  This offseason will be telling. 

Texas went 11-22 in Shaka's second year at Texas and made the Tournament in year 3.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 24, 2025, 10:16:51 AMTexas went 11-22 in Shaka's second year at Texas and made the Tournament in year 3.

Best case scenario.  Hope you are right Wades. Shaka will need to pivot to get there. 

The recipe? Prevent the redshirts, freshman and sophomores from getting disheartened and leaving.  Use the portal for 2-3 effective players.  To do this he will have to abandon 25% of his RGV model.  I think this is reasonable.  Will he?  This offseason will be interesting. 

Quote from: wadesworld on December 24, 2025, 10:16:51 AMTexas went 11-22 in Shaka's second year at Texas and made the Tournament in year 3.

11-22 but #70 KenPom, they ran into B12 buzzsaw so the record looked worse than the actual quality of the team. Lot of close losses to tournament teams on the road.

This year we're hovering around #200 in computer rankings that don't factor in pre-season projections, getting our doors blown off by anyone of quality and getting taken to OT at home by the likes of Valpo. He has a lot more wood to chop in this circumstance. Let's hope he can get it done.

Quote from: Jay Bee on December 24, 2025, 09:25:24 AMYes. Pretty much Shaka is the same guy as Few, whose only year not dancing was the covid-shortened season. His down years look like Shaka's best years. C'mon now.

This year is so bad I don't know if he can come back from it.

I think how truly awful this team is right now is shocking and yes, can change the equation.  If we were a borderline NIT team I don't think most Scoopers would be demanding a change.  Personally, I think Shaka deserves another year to turn this around.  This issue for me is if we simply run it back, with our returning players and recruits, I don't have a lot of hope we're going to see a team competing for an NCAA tournament berth. I know it's painful to watch but what we actually see from our young players, and Shaka the next 18+ games, means a great deal with regards to our near future.

Quote from: MuggsyB on December 24, 2025, 11:50:20 AMI think how truly awful this team is right now is shocking and yes, can change the equation.  If we were a borderline NIT team I don't think most Scoopers would be demanding a change.  Personally, I think Shaka deserves another year to turn this around.  This issue for me is if we simply run it back, with our returning players and recruits, I don't have a lot of hope we're going to see a team competing for an NCAA tournament berth. I know it's painful to watch but what we actually see from our young players, and Shaka the next 18+ games, means a great deal with regards to our near future.

There is no sign that the next 18 games are going to show us anything different from what we've seen thus far - and that is BAD. I'm in the camp that Shaka has earned some leeway by virtue of his results over 4 years (or, as some say, 3 and a half). This season, barring a miracle, is just a lost cause. This team is so sadly awful that I don't think Shaka deserves
"another year." I think he's is going to have to show what he's got this Spring - if he doesn't clear out the deadwood who have failed to grow and fill some needs with available quality players in the portal, then why wait to suffer through another year like this?

There will be those who will say that this goes against everything that Shaka has said and would be torpedoing his "relationships" schtick. He is a basketball coach and his job is to assemble a quality team and win basketball games. It's not rocket science. And, unlike Sean's mom, I think a coach should be judged by wins and losses.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 24, 2025, 10:16:51 AMTexas went 11-22 in Shaka's second year at Texas and made the Tournament in year 3.

Shaka brought in the #6 recruiting class in the country the next year, headlined by Mo Bamba and two other top 70 kids who were starting by end of the year (Matt Coleman and Jericho Sims). They combined to average 29 ppg and 17 rpg.
Next year's Marquette class is ranked 42nd at the moment.

Not impossible for next year's team to see a similar turnaround, but it'll likely take a greater infusion of talent than what's currently in the pipeline.

Quote from: Pakuni on December 24, 2025, 04:45:33 PMShaka brought in the #6 recruiting class in the country the next year, headlined by Mo Bamba and two other top 70 kids who were starting by end of the year (Matt Coleman and Jericho Sims). They combined to average 29 ppg and 17 rpg.
Next year's Marquette class is ranked 42nd at the moment.

Not impossible for next year's team to see a similar turnaround, but it'll likely take a greater infusion of talent than what's currently in the pipeline.

I don't disagree. And I obviously don't expect Egbuonu and Sheek to be what that Texas class was, but if you kept Sheek in his actual class and didn't reclass to redshirt the class would rank higher.

My opinion has been that Shaka will adjust. If he doesn't, I don't think the season will be quite as bad as this if we just return everyone and bring in our recruits, but I don't see it being good enough.

Quote from: Jay Bee on December 24, 2025, 09:25:24 AMYes. Pretty much Shaka is the same guy as Few, whose only year not dancing was the covid-shortened season. His down years look like Shaka's best years. C'mon now.

This year is so bad I don't know if he can come back from it.

Seriously?

Quote from: 79Warrior on December 24, 2025, 06:14:46 PMSeriously?

Yes. When I include the things I'm seeing with the in-game coaching, absolutely. This is a mess beyond comprehension.

Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 24, 2025, 12:10:22 PMThere is no sign that the next 18 games are going to show us anything different from what we've seen thus far - and that is BAD. I'm in the camp that Shaka has earned some leeway by virtue of his results over 4 years (or, as some say, 3 and a half). This season, barring a miracle, is just a lost cause. This team is so sadly awful that I don't think Shaka deserves
"another year." I think he's is going to have to show what he's got this Spring - if he doesn't clear out the deadwood who have failed to grow and fill some needs with available quality players in the portal, then why wait to suffer through another year like this?

There will be those who will say that this goes against everything that Shaka has said and would be torpedoing his "relationships" schtick. He is a basketball coach and his job is to assemble a quality team and win basketball games. It's not rocket science. And, unlike Sean's mom, I think a coach should be judged by wins and losses.

I think you're being fair.  The only thing I will say is Nigel and Adrien seem to have the potential to deliver the goods.  It's their development over the next 18 games that could give us some renewed hope.

Quote from: MuggsyB on December 24, 2025, 10:09:03 PMI think you're being fair.  The only thing I will say is Nigel and Adrien seem to have the potential to deliver the goods.  It's their development over the next 18 games that could give us some renewed hope.

You have to remember that while they look good to us, they also appear good to other coaches willing to spend money.

This will be the other test of the RGV method.  If money comes for Nigel or Adrien this off season then the method is even more dead.

I think the jury has come back and deemed RGV unrealistic for modern college basketball, but we shall see if Shaka sees it that way.  And if he doesn't, well...

Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 26, 2025, 09:39:07 AMYou have to remember that while they look good to us, they also appear good to other coaches willing to spend money.

This will be the other test of the RGV method.  If money comes for Nigel or Adrien this off season then the method is even more dead.

I think the jury has come back and deemed RGV unrealistic for modern college basketball, but we shall see if Shaka sees it that way.  And if he doesn't, well...

It's not only money we have to worry about. I'm sure Nigel James would like to compete, which at this point, Marquette cannot offer.

Yep, some interesting family conversations occurred over Christmas Day.  Hopefully Shaka keep the best and the other leave on their own accord.  Hit the porta in the offseason and BAM!, we're back baby!!!

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 26, 2025, 11:12:51 AMYep, some interesting family conversations occurred over Christmas Day.  Hopefully Shaka keep the best and the other leave on their own accord.  Hit the porta in the offseason and BAM!, we're back baby!!!

Hit the porta potty?

From my perspective, this kind of season is probably the best opportunity for Shaka to do a soft RGV pivot to the Purdue/Painter model.

On the current team, how many returnees would you feel confident in as starters on a solid team for the 26-27 season? 

For me, it's just James although Stevens could also get there. 

My point is, aside from James, none of the potential returnees have shown enough to have earned that kind of role and/or minutes for next season.  This isn't like forgoing a transfer to replace OMax when you have a Joplin waiting in the wings. 

Yes, Shaka has absolutely painted himself into a corner but hopefully being one of the worst P5 teams in the country is enough to have him reconsider modifying (but not completely abandoning) his approach. 

Hypothetically:

PG: James
SG: Stevens
SF/SG: Impact wing transfer
PF: Parham
C: Impact transfer (one-year of eligibility)

Bench: Jones or back-up PG transfer, Pearson, Egbuonu, Miletic, Phillips, Walker, Clark, Johnston (RS).

Could be wrong but I'm going to assume Zaide moves on after the recent developments. 

Sean may not want to be a back-up...would he stay in that role?

I also don't mention Norman or Hamilton.  Ideally they both find new homes but I won't be remotely surprised if one or both are back.  If that's the case, where does another scholarship come from?

The overall point I'm making is adding two good starters through the portal with returnees and perhaps an impact freshman in Egbuonu could really change things for next season.

Or maybe this all just wishful thinking and Shaka stays the course and potentially goes down with the ship.

 

You also skipped Owens who is a total wild card.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 26, 2025, 02:43:38 PMYou also skipped Owens who is a total wild card.

Yep...says a lot that he somehow slipped my mind.

Would like to see him get a bunch of playing time the rest of the way.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 26, 2025, 02:05:08 PMThe overall point I'm making is adding two good starters through the portal with returnees and perhaps an impact freshman in Egbuonu could really change things for next season.

I agree with this. Hopefully Shaka does take some transfers, but just as important is that he gets guys who he intends on coming in and starting day one. And if that means paying those guys more than a fourth year guy like Hamilton, then he's gonna have to accept that his payment structure needs adjusting too. Being willing to pivot from that is something that does concern me.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 26, 2025, 02:05:08 PMThe overall point I'm making is adding two good starters through the portal with returnees and perhaps an impact freshman in Egbuonu could really change things for next season.

Or maybe this all just wishful thinking and Shaka stays the course and potentially goes down with the ship.

Agree, good breakdown. That also largely preserves RGV with 10+ homegrown players. If Shaka makes these moves in late March/Early April then his seat is pretty cool IMO, as any reasonable fan would see the effort to course correct and give him a break on this year. It will be a rocky road though as most of the older players will need to be replaced, so we'll see what happens. Portal opens in 87 days.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 24, 2025, 10:16:51 AMTexas went 11-22 in Shaka's second year at Texas and made the Tournament in year 3.

true. Yr 3 wasn't stellar (19-15, 8-10) but as you point out, did make the tourney. Then 21-16 (8-10), 19-12 (9-9),19-8 (11-6). There was a Big 12 tournament title in that mix. Not great results, but not bad. Texas, however, was happy to move on (maybe there was more to it for Texas than wins & losses?). Obviously Shaka was very good here for the first 3.5 seasons. No deep March runs, but still some solid seasons, for sure. Like I said in a different thread, if there is a debrief with the AD this coming March and Shaka isn't willing to adjust off RGV, not sure Marquette can retain him and take the chance of suffering more of this. Even marginally better YOY will still be very bad. I don't anticipate more than 3 wins this year. If I'm right, 8 wins is absolutely mind blowing for a program such as MU.

Quote from: CountryRoads on December 26, 2025, 06:26:18 PMPortal opens in 87 days.

#FakeNews #Lies