MUScoop

I was updating the "Season Accomplishment" post and just can't get over how much Shaka has already done in 2.5 years. Some of this might just be comparing to the baseline of the last guy, but it's really amazing the consistency in what his teams have accomplished since he took over. Of course there is a lot of ball yet to be played this year and the glaring gap of major NCAAT success, but I think most of us are convinced Shaka is the guy for the long term.

If you think/hope Shaka should retire a warrior, it begs the question of if/when MU should offer him a lifetime contract. I tried to do some digging and could only find Self's, K's and Calipari's.  I don't know if the knowers of ball out there are aware of others. It looks like Nova (fans at least) entertained it for Wright in 2019, and Pitino and Iona might have had talks about it. I don't see anything about Few or Roy Williams and can't think of many other coaches who might be plausible candidates.

Obviously a huge (mutual) commitment - and Shaka's $3 million is no where near Calipari's $9 or Self's $10, but it doesn't seem like it's something that wouldn't be out of the question at some point. Or, in today's rapidly changing NIL/Conference/Everything else environment, does it never make sense to lock into that type of commitment (and presumably there would still be (potentially costly) outs). Are these kinds of contracts strictly the preserve of blue bloods? Or if it came to it, would MU be able to pony up the dough for lifetime kind of money?

For me, I think either cutting down the nets at any point, or multiple FF or better seasons would do it - that would put him in the Al echelon - but it wouldn't have MU in blue blood territory - that's multiple championships at a minimum. Obviously a huge lift to get there, but the man just so embodies what MUBB should be about.

In general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

Never,  they're a dumb idea.

But let's get through one recruiting cycle before we start declaring Shaka for life. I'm absolutely in love,  but we need to see how Shaka builds after losing TKo/Oso

If we give Shaka a lifetime contract, we won't be able to hire Brian Wardle

Philosophically opposed.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 07:09:04 AM
Never,  they're a dumb idea.

But let's get through one recruiting cycle before we start declaring Shaka for life. I'm absolutely in love,  but we need to see how Shaka builds after losing TKo/Oso

5 years to judge.

"Thinking outside the box" is one of the most common cliche's, but it fits here. If Shaka would like Marquette to help him in setting up and assisting in community projects in and around Milwaukee, that, along with generous salary increases, may accomplish the goal of keeping him at Marquette for a very long time.

His interests extend well beyond basketball, and he's a thinker and a doer. He's a Renaissance man. Make not just Marquette but Milwaukee his base and the lifetime contract concept will be accomplished.   

Let's make it to the second weekend first. <ducks>

Besides, I believe he has a rollover contract already. Technically a lifetime contract.

Give me five more years of Shaka and the rest is a bonus, imo. I hope he retires from MU, but these are crazy times in college sports and I'm going to enjoy one game at a time.

Quote from: 1SE on February 09, 2024, 07:17:56 AM
5 years to judge.

No that was the old standard. Insta-transfers have changed the standard.  That being said,  you want to at least make sure you don't have a Brady Belichiek situation on your hands

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 09, 2024, 07:30:03 AM
Let's make it to the second weekend first. <ducks>

Besides, I believe he has a rollover contract already. Technically a lifetime contract.

Don't duck when you're right.  We all love Shaka but losses in early rounds will not keep MU on the trajectory we all want. 

Good news is that hurdle will be jumped this year and we won't have to think about it anymore.

How about partial ownership?

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 09, 2024, 07:48:58 AM
How about partial ownership?

He can always just have his parents pay for school and be designated a walk on to free up a scholly.

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 09, 2024, 07:47:05 AM
Don't duck when you're right.  We all love Shaka but losses in early rounds will not keep MU on the trajectory we all want. 

Good news is that hurdle will be jumped this year and we won't have to think about it anymore.

I am often right at home but that doesn't preclude me from ducking often.

Win two ncaa tournament games this March or launch the idiot, er, Coach Smart, and go hard for Gard.

Quote from: Viper on February 09, 2024, 08:05:35 AM
Win two ncaa tournament games this March or launch the idiot, er, Coach Smart, and go hard for Gard.

I don't even think Bucky Badger is as obsessed with UW as much as you are.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 07:46:48 AM
No that was the old standard. Insta-transfers have changed the standard.  That being said,  you want to at least make sure you don't have a Brady Belichiek situation on your hands

No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches. 

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 09, 2024, 07:59:03 AM
I am often right at home but that doesn't preclude me from ducking often.

LOL

What if Lovell adopts him?

Quote from: cheebs09 on February 09, 2024, 08:41:15 AM
What if Lovell adopts him?

Viper out.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 08:19:36 AM
No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches. 

My recollection is, that while he was criticizing the Buzz search process, he was justifying why they gave him a six year deal.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 08:19:36 AM
No actually it was just something stupid chicos said because he either loved or hated one of our coaches.

There was wisdom behind it. Get though an entire recruiting cycle,  make sure a coach can win with their own players not just the last coach's players. Things are different now. Slick Rick chased off all but one Johnnie and completely replaced the roster in a single offseason. Insta transfers means you can rebuild a lot quicker

Contracts pretty much don't matter. Coaches and schools break them quite regularly. KO, Crean and Wojo were all under contract to Marquette, but that didn't stop them from either leaving or being told to leave.

The most interesting thing from this comment stream so far is how many Scoopers are saying, "Prove it," re Shaka. And I'm not saying folks are wrong. It might be a crapshoot, but March is where the great coaches separate themselves from the rest. Even great coaches have early exits sometimes (and even mediocre coaches have won in the NCAAT), but over time, great coaches have success in March (and even April).

And I always find the whole "loyalty" thing to be interesting. We want a coach who won't use Marquette as a stepping stone and who makes MU his forever assignment. Be loyal to us, dammit!! But if our team flames out the next 2-3 Marches, how loyal will MU fans be to Shaka? How many will boo him when he's introduced before games? Which bazillionaires will be offering to pay his buyout?

I know that's how the game is played - and so does Shaka - but still.

OK, enough silly speculation from me. We're winning big in the NCAAT this year, so all of the above is moot!

Quote from: MU82 on February 09, 2024, 10:15:40 AM
Contracts pretty much don't matter. Coaches and schools break them quite regularly. KO, Crean and Wojo were all under contract to Marquette, but that didn't stop them from either leaving or being told to leave.

The most interesting thing from this comment stream so far is how many Scoopers are saying, "Prove it," re Shaka. And I'm not saying folks are wrong. It might be a crapshoot, but March is where the great coaches separate themselves from the rest. Even great coaches have early exits sometimes (and even mediocre coaches have won in the NCAAT), but over time, great coaches have success in March (and even April).

And I always find the whole "loyalty" thing to be interesting. We want a coach who won't use Marquette as a stepping stone and who makes MU his forever assignment. Be loyal to us, dammit!! But if our team flames out the next 2-3 Marches, how loyal will MU fans be to Shaka? How many will boo him when he's introduced before games? Which bazillionaires will be offering to pay his buyout?

I know that's how the game is played - and so does Shaka - but still.

OK, enough silly speculation from me. We're winning big in the NCAAT this year, so all of the above is moot!

Getting too big for your britches is definitely a thing look at Vanderbilt with Stallings... and Pitt with Dixon. Or even Texas ushering Shaka out. If Shaka consistently has us top 3 in the BE (realistic given we're about the 4th best program historically with the 3rd being a disaster) then we're going to be in the tournament every year & bound to make a run at some point. We may get restless after awhile but hopefully nobody's stupid enough to start calling for his job.

NolongerWarriors is on Line 1...

I miss him.   Always good for a belly laugh.

The -"now, Shakaholic" option was pretty much just to give the full range, but I'm wondering about the "neverers" - if we succeed in becoming a blue blood (however you define it) don't you want/he deserves a lifetime contract?

And I know they don't mean anything at the end of the day, but they must mean enough to K and Self and Calipari for them to be a thing - three programs whose success I wouldn't mind having (but the "Shaka-way).

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2024, 08:15:34 AM
I don't even think Bucky Badger is as obsessed with UW as much as you are.

G A R D !!

Quote from: 1SE on February 09, 2024, 11:52:39 AM
The -"now, Shakaholic" option was pretty much just to give the full range, but I'm wondering about the "neverers" - if we succeed in becoming a blue blood (however you define it) don't you want/he deserves a lifetime contract?

And I know they don't mean anything at the end of the day, but they must mean enough to K and Self and Calipari for them to be a thing - three programs whose success I wouldn't mind having (but the "Shaka-way).

I think if not all, almost all coaches have very healthy egos, but Shaka's easily fits into the Al and probably a decent sized room as well. Calipari and K? Theirs won't fit into the largest FB stadiums. As I wrote in my earlier post, my guess is that there are a number of things more important to Shaka, and some of those have nothing to do with basketball.

I guess what I am asking is " Does a lifetime contract mean much to Shaka?" I think not.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 09, 2024, 08:56:18 AM
There was wisdom behind it. Get though an entire recruiting cycle,  make sure a coach can win with their own players not just the last coach's players. Things are different now. Slick Rick chased off all but one Johnnie and completely replaced the roster in a single offseason. Insta transfers means you can rebuild a lot quicker

Maybe and sometimes sure. My guess is the more important factor was it fit the narrative of the day.

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 09, 2024, 01:41:46 PM
Maybe and sometimes sure. My guess is the more important factor was it fit the narrative of the day.

Bingo.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2024, 06:24:26 AM
In general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

Or for fans. Honeymooned end.

Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 09, 2024, 11:45:53 AM
NolongerWarriors is on Line 1...

He doesn't count ... and, sadly, he wasn't the only one who called for Shaka's job after Year 1.

Hypothetical. And frankly, quite likely one>>>

After leading Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen, with their eyes set on a Final Four......

Shaka Smart is being mentioned as a successor to the recently fired John Calipari at Kentucky and Mike Woodson at Indiana.

If I'm anyone who is anyone at Marquette, I'm drawing something up as we speak. If only to quiet the carousel speculation, which can be a serious distraction for any team, let alone one capable of winning an NCAA title.

I really really hope Shaka is very happy here.

Building a new house in Fox Point, l can not say forever, but he has a sweet deal here!  Who wants the pressure at both of those schools, he is the main man here with no football!

Quote from: GoFastAndWin on February 10, 2024, 08:59:42 PM
Hypothetical. And frankly, quite likely one>>>

After leading Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen, with their eyes set on a Final Four......

Shaka Smart is being mentioned as a successor to the recently fired John Calipari at Kentucky and Mike Woodson at Indiana.

If I'm anyone who is anyone at Marquette, I'm drawing something up as we speak. If only to quiet the carousel speculation, which can be a serious distraction for any team, let alone one capable of winning an NCAA title.

I really really hope Shaka is very happy here.

I totally agree that if Kentucky and/or Indiana have vacancies, they could reach out to Shaka. I also am not naive enough to think that Shaka is already committed to stay at MU for the rest of his career.

At the same time, I believe that Shaka's Texas experience is still fresh in his mind. He was attacked endlessly, even by a fan base more focused on football. My gut says he realizes that entering the hellscape of a blueblood like UK or IU is not what he wants.

GoFast

Shaka had delivered at the highest level and I appreciate every game he has coached at MU. If he decides to go elsewhere I am good with that. He proved that MU is a fxxkin basketball school and can compete at the highest level nationally.

I am not going to spend one second worrying about his tenure at MU. I am going to enjoy watching the best basketball that I have seen since I was in grade school.

Goose.
Well-said.

Lifetime contracts are stupid. Am I seeing this right that Cal has a 33 mil buy-out?

Shaka so good. When the time comes are we going to be able to pay him the $8-9 million that he'll deserve?

Quote from: 1SE on December 03, 2024, 04:40:45 AMShaka so good. When the time comes are we going to be able to pay him the $8-9 million that he'll deserve?

Yes. See NIL Thread. Marquette has a top 15 budget in the country.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on December 03, 2024, 07:06:09 AMYes. See NIL Thread. Marquette has a top 15 budget in the country.

<sigh>

That budget includes the rent we pay for Fiserv. Its not an apples to apples comparison to other schools around the country. Yes, we have very nice budget for a private, non-football school. But we really need to stop throwing this budget figure around like its gospel.

Regardless, there is no need for a lifetime contract. Just keep extending him. If Shaka wants to leave, he will leave.

I'll say it again this year, if Shaka were to leave, he would get a big thank you from me and a long standing ovation. He proved MU can play at a high level nationally and owes this fan nothing beyond that.

Hopefully he is here for the long haul and continues to build the program in the manner he and the school envisions. Nothing is forever, especially in sports, and I would never fault Shaka for chasing his dreams. IMO, he has exceeded my extremely high expectations when he was hired and I very much enjoy the product he has put on the court.

Quote from: Goose on December 03, 2024, 08:36:01 AMI'll say it again this year, if Shaka were to leave, he would get a big thank you from me and a long standing ovation. He proved MU can play at a high level nationally and owes this fan nothing beyond that.

Hopefully he is here for the long haul and continues to build the program in the manner he and the school envisions. Nothing is forever, especially in sports, and I would never fault Shaka for chasing his dreams. IMO, he has exceeded my extremely high expectations when he was hired and I very much enjoy the product he has put on the court.

Well said Goose. But I think it will be a while before that day comes. Shaka is the real deal, says what he means and means what he days. I think he's enjoying the ride even more than you and me as well as many other scoopers, as difficult as that may be to believe.

Snoop

He sure has provided an excited journey thus far. Beat UW on Saturday and that box is checked and then hopefully a long ride in the spring. That said, while I want to win in April, it is amazing the excitement created for games throughout the season. If someone would have told me there would be 100's of MU fans and Goolsby's watching a game at 10am in November I would not have believed it.

Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 09, 2024, 06:24:26 AMIn general, lifetime contracts aren't great for either party.

This. Buzz's automatic, annual 5-year rolling contact with a minuscule buyout wasn't the best decision MU has ever made.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 03, 2024, 08:57:27 AMThis. Buzz's automatic, annual 5-year rolling contact with a minuscule buyout wasn't the best decision MU has ever made.

Really? I think the contract worked fine. I think each party got what they wanted when he left. I'm not sure, but I feel like huge buyouts sound great, until you get in a Wojo situation.

Details of contracts are what matters.

Marriage is a "lifetime contract", aina?

Hopefully all parties remain happy and we continue to win every day.

The best indication for Shaka's longevity at Marquette is this freshman class and the incoming 2025 class. The near future for MUBB is exceedingly bright. Coaches don't generally leave when their teams project as perennial national contenders.

Quote from: Tyler COLEk on December 03, 2024, 04:18:46 PMCoaches don't generally leave when their teams project as perennial national contenders.

Crean says hi (or says Bye)

Shaka is perfect for Marquette and vice versa. He's seen the other side. I'm gonna be Mr. Optimist and say he ain't going anywhere - whether or not he gets a "lifetime" contract (which would mean diddly-squat).

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2024, 04:22:46 PMCrean says hi (or says Bye)

I almost included: particularly coaches who have already had a taste of a blue blood and don't seem to aspire to get back there. I think the throwback, four-year retention strategy has Shaka has built at Marquette doesn't fit at blue bloods.

Quote from: Tyler COLEk on December 03, 2024, 04:24:54 PMI almost included: particularly coaches who have already had a taste of a blue blood and don't seem to aspire to get back there. I think the throwback, four-year retention strategy has Shaka has built at Marquette doesn't fit at blue bloods.

I don't think Shakas leaving unless he doesn't get along with the new Pres or AD.

That said Texas isn't exactly a blue blood, they're closer to us than Nova in terms of Tradition let alone Duke KU UK UNC etc. So if Shaka truly wanted a taste of that experience I don't think Texas would've quenched that thirst.

We've all seen so called "lifetime" contracts are easy for either side to get out of, so I wouldn't recommend that. What I do recommend is an eternal contract, binding the university to the coach past the lifetime of either, until the heat death of the universe.

Quote from: THRILLHO on December 03, 2024, 05:05:59 PMWe've all seen so called "lifetime" contracts are easy for either side to get out of, so I wouldn't recommend that. What I do recommend is an eternal contract, binding the university to the coach past the lifetime of either, until the heat death of the universe.

A Herman contract

Quote from: MU82 on December 03, 2024, 04:23:22 PMShaka is perfect for Marquette and vice versa. He's seen the other side. I'm gonna be Mr. Optimist and say he ain't going anywhere - whether or not he gets a "lifetime" contract (which would mean diddly-squat).

I know life happens and this is just a talking point, but I genuinely can't think of a better marriage of coach and program.

I would hope Shaka feels the same and recognizes he can continue to win forever here.

IMO. This is mostly speculation. But i expect shaka stays at marquette for nearly all or nearly the rest of his career, until shaka decides to retire. But I expect Shaka to retire at a "young" age relative to other basketball coaches, mostly because he has already been doing this for so long.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2024, 04:36:40 PMI don't think Shakas leaving unless he doesn't get along with the new Pres or AD.

That said Texas isn't exactly a blue blood, they're closer to us than Nova in terms of Tradition let alone Duke KU UK UNC etc. So if Shaka truly wanted a taste of that experience I don't think Texas would've quenched that thirst.

No, Texas isn't a basketball blue blood, but it is a big-time, big-bucks, big-pressure school in what was then the #1 basketball conference. Shaka felt pressure to recruit 1-and-dones and other big-name players - guys the blue bloods really wanted and guys who didn't always buy into the team game.

He couldn't coach there the way he really wanted to. It might as well have been a blue blood.