You read or hear about some freshmen playing real well. Our freshmen really don't add anything . They seem like they don't know how to pass or shoot.
Quote from: Don_Kojis on January 24, 2024, 10:18:39 PM
You read or hear about some freshmen playing real well. Our freshmen really don't add anything . They seem like they don't know how to pass or shoot.
Because Shaka is an idiot and can't recruit
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 10:28:10 PM
Because Shaka is an idiot and can't recruit
Maybe Shaka's philosophy might be right years ago, but when kids play hundreds of games before they get to college, they should be ready as freshman. The 3 this year are totally disappointing, the air ball from Zaide was ridiculous today, I was hoping they would be more like Blackwell at Wisky. Amadeau do not get at all, what did Shaka see in him? I hope Hamilton will give them something next year.
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 24, 2024, 10:39:04 PM
Maybe Shaka's philosophy might be right years ago, but when kids play hundreds of games before they get to college, they should be ready as freshman. The 3 this year are totally disappointing, the air ball from Zaide was ridiculous today, I was hoping they would be more like Blackwell at Wisky. Amadeau do not get at all, what did Shaka see in him? I hope Hamilton will give them something next year.
LOL no idea have you? (Yoda)
Feel Al may have a short stay at MU. He's essentially walk on status. Not sure that changes next year with three bigger guys coming in.
Lot of dumb in this thread.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 24, 2024, 11:15:23 PM
Lot of dumb in this thread.
Not just this thread.
Maybe being down by the floor gave me a different perspective but they hit some ridiculously tough shots just to stay within 10-18 points of Marquette.
Yeah there were some bad turnovers. The freshmen had a freshman game. crap happens.
It is an annual thing. Other than last season when there were no other options.
Oh, my God! (Freshman/freshmen) suck! The program is doomed! The coach is incompetent! Except Joey! He got 29 minutes a game! Only thing Wojo ever did right !
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 24, 2024, 11:15:23 PM
Lot of dumb in this thread.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExN3prejhuYnl3N2s0M3Myd3RqZWFheGwwNnJwcmxpOG41MGttZ3VqeSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ylrR5oFlbGT7BJQAWU/giphy.gif)
Lot of arrogant condescension in this thread too.
When I was young and knew everything
She a punk who rarely ever took advice
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 24, 2024, 11:15:23 PM
Lot of dumb in this thread.
Stop calling yourself out like that. For a poster who has never once added anything substantive to discussion, you sure like to call out others. All you ever add is immature name calling. You're too dumb to try and dispute anything said so, like all immature children, you call someone names. I love how you continue to expose yourself.
Quote from: FairWeatherEagle on January 25, 2024, 07:44:58 AM
Lot of arrogant condescension in this thread too.
No, mostly dumb
Take a look at Al's stats and compare them to Oso's freshman stats. Plus Oso's freshman team wasn't close to being ranked.
Amadou is still a really inexperienced player. That was a project that was always going to take awhile.
Zaide is going to be fine. He struggled yesterday because freshmen aren't consistent. But he will be a solid player here starting next year.
Tre I am concerned about. I know Shaka is big on him and reportedly came in the most ready, but he looks overwhelmed out there. Getting some Symir vibes with him.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 25, 2024, 07:57:33 AM
Tre I am concerned about. I know Shaka is big on him and reportedly came in the most ready, but he looks overwhelmed out there. Getting some Symir vibes with him.
This is the one reason I'd be upset about not blowing them out last night. I would have loved to see him play more than 11 mins.
It's really hard to get in any sort of flow when playing a couple minutes at a time. Chase got to play with basically any lineup, so he would stay out there more last year. Most of Tre's minutes are next to TK, so he doesn't get many touches or much action. Important that he stays locked in on the other end, though.
Sultan
I agree with your takes on the freshmen thus far. While I was expecting more from Norman, I have not seen enough yet to make a real judgement. Like I mentioned in another post, it is hard for me grade guys when they are getting very reduced roles because of much better, experienced players ahead of them. Plus, I read posts on a regular basis that are grading TK basically on a per possession rate. There are some harsh critics on scoop and I am giving the young guys another year before making judgement. I have no idea how good they would be if they were forced to be major contributors and thus far that has not happened.
Oh I am certainly not writing off Tre by any means. I have learned a long time ago not to make definitive statements about freshmen. I am simply concerned because he just hasn't matched what people were saying about him when the season started.
In Duke's loss to Pitt, everyone kept talking about how you had to excuse the game because they had a couple starters out and their (5* and high 4*) younger players weren't ready to step up. Meanwhile, our freshmen, who are still quality but not touted like Duke's, who get a scant few minutes of irregular actual playing time and don't come in to be immediate impact players, have up and down games and suddenly the world is ending.
Trolls are gonna troll though.
Quote from: Don_Kojis on January 24, 2024, 10:18:39 PM
You read or hear about some freshmen playing real well. Our freshmen really don't add anything . They seem like they don't know how to pass or shoot.
Really hope you are doing a bit. But I don't think you are.
Quote from: Don_Kojis on January 24, 2024, 10:18:39 PM
You read or hear about some freshmen playing real well. Our freshmen really don't add anything . They seem like they don't know how to pass or shoot.
It's nice that you decided to watch your first Marquette game since January 6.
Need Wojo's help
At every timeout when one of the freshman had been in the game, before huddle time, Shaka pulled aside Zaide or Tre and had a teaching moment. Always. Be. Coaching. There was a fair amount of frustration from the upper classmen, Oso in particular, with mental errors they were making-mostly not being in the right place at the right time sort of stuff.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 25, 2024, 07:57:33 AM
Amadou is still a really inexperienced player. That was a project that was always going to take awhile.
Zaide is going to be fine. He struggled yesterday because freshmen aren't consistent. But he will be a solid player here starting next year.
Tre I am concerned about. I know Shaka is big on him and reportedly came in the most ready, but he looks overwhelmed out there. Getting some Symir vibes with him.
I agree with this analysis. I also feel Al Amadou has a bright future at MU. To your point, Al didn't start focusing on basketball until 8th grade as I recall. He was an ascending player. His length and athleticism aren't teachable, and he's got nice form on his jumper. I can see him evolving into an O-Max type of player by the time he's a senior (possibly with a redshirt year included).
I do have similar concerns about Tre, but he's at least got the physicality for the Big East. However, I also agree with this too:
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 25, 2024, 08:01:50 AM
This is the one reason I'd be upset about not blowing them out last night. I would have loved to see him play more than 11 mins.
It's really hard to get in any sort of flow when playing a couple minutes at a time. Chase got to play with basically any lineup, so he would stay out there more last year. Most of Tre's minutes are next to TK, so he doesn't get many touches or much action. Important that he stays locked in on the other end, though.
Quote from: Farley36 on January 25, 2024, 07:54:28 AM
Stop calling yourself out like that. For a poster who has never once added anything substantive to discussion, you sure like to call out others. All you ever add is immature name calling. You're too dumb to try and dispute anything said so, like all immature children, you call someone names. I love how you continue to expose yourself.
Thread just got even dumber. Thanks for your contribution. Rent-free.
"Our freshman don't really add anything". Absolutely false. See Zaide's contributions during the Villanova game. Sure, the consistent production isn't there yet but with a team returning so many rotation players that's ok.
"When kids play hundreds of games before they get to college, they should be ready as freshman". Do I really need to say more about this one?
"Amadeau do not get at all, what did Shaka see in him?" Or this one?
"Feel Al may have a short stay at MU. He's essentially walk on status. Not sure that changes next year with three bigger guys coming in." Al knew coming in that A) He wasn't redshirting abd B) His minutes would be scarce. The athleticism and length is tantalizing and I don't see any reason to worry about a transfer at this point.
I'm not sure how you make a fair judgment on the Freshmen who came to a team with 8 guys ahead of them in the rotation and have essentially played in blowout minutes until 2 guys were injured. Zaide stepped up in his first real opportunity vs Villanova. Norman has shown glimpses and Al hasn't had the chance. I think stating that these guys can't play is foolish and people just need to be patient.
JTY's injury is incredibly unfortunate. Especially because I believe how we played overall as a team that night contributed to his injury. Everyone was out of sync and pressed psychologically. We absolutely need Zaide, Ben, and perhaps Norman to contribute to make up for 2 players going down. Maybe Ben's three timely triples gets him going moving forward? As for Sean I think he did things for our tean that can't be replaced so it's incumbent for everyone to step up and play well consistently. MU is still very dangerous when our Big 3 all play well, it's really that simple.
I get it, they're freshmen, they'll get better in the coming years. But we need at least one of them to be useful NOW. This is likely the best team we're going to have for a while, and with Ross and Sean Jones out we can't have a bench of just Gold, who has issues of his own. Even when Ross comes back, we're going to need one of them to provide something for this team to have a chance for a lengthy run in the tournament. I would at least like Shaka to not be afraid to have one of them on the floor at an important juncture of the game.
Lowery had a good start last night on the defensive end, but had a few bad offensive moments and overall a forgettable performance. But since Chase went down, he's by and large been excellent on both ends, giving quality minutes. We would be in trouble without him. Norman hasn't been as ready to go as I expected. I did think based on coach comments and scouting reports that he would be ready to give more this year. Amadou is a project, seems to have great physical tools but needs to add muscle and refine his game.
Since this staff came in, we've had legitimate freshman contributions from Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, Chase Ross, Sean Jones, and Zaide Lowery. That's a pretty decent hit rate. Yes, they've all been as bench role-players, but that's the goal when you have an experienced team. This is all much ado about nothing.
Aside from yesterday, as brew said, Zaide has largely been a plus since Ross and SJ got hurt.
But no, he isn't 2003 Carmelo Anthony. So another failure for Shaka.
It's rare to have a significant impact by a Freshman at any level. None of the guys that hit the floor yesterday are dead to me. They have great experience from last night, they can work through that in practice. The rest is up to them.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 25, 2024, 09:19:08 AM
"Feel Al may have a short stay at MU. He's essentially walk on status. Not sure that changes next year with three bigger guys coming in." Al knew coming in that A) He wasn't redshirting abd B) His minutes would be scarce. The athleticism and length is tantalizing and I don't see any reason to worry about a transfer at this point.
My comment regarding Al wasn't meant as a negative in any way. More of just an observation that he'll have played 0 non-garbage time minutes in the first 25% of his college career. Those traits you note also applied to Keeyan. Hope he thrives here, but as I noted there's more depth coming in at his position(s) next year. These guys are semi-pros now so not as taboo to talk about a player's future with the program anymore, imo.
Quote from: MU82 on January 25, 2024, 09:58:16 AM
Aside from yesterday, as brew said, Zaide has largely been a plus since Ross and SJ got hurt.
But no, he isn't 2003 Carmelo Anthony. So another failure for Shaka.
Last season, MU had three freshmen consistently contribute. This season, not so much. It's now their time to step up. Shaka keeps hyping this class so he sees something at practice.
Scoopers aren't asking for Carmelo, they are asking for freshman Ben, Sean and Chase.
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 25, 2024, 10:03:31 AM
My comment regarding Al wasn't meant as a negative in any way. More of just an observation that he'll have played 0 non-garbage time minutes in the first 25% of his college career. Those traits you note also applied to Keeyan. Hope he thrives here, but as I noted there's more depth coming in at his position(s) next year. These guys are semi-pros now so not as taboo to talk about a player's future with the program anymore, imo.
They also applied to Oso.
Honestly too small of a sample size to say anything other than he's not good enough as a true Freshman to crack the rotation of a top 15 team that returned 8 rotation players.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 25, 2024, 10:06:53 AM
Last season, MU had three freshmen consistently contribute. This season, not so much. It's now their time to step up. Shaka keeps hyping this class so he sees something at practice.
Scoopers aren't asking for Carmelo, they are asking for freshman Ben, Sean and Chase.
There were a lot more minutes available for those dudes.
Zaide had a rough night but I like his trajectory. He's had a Chase-like impact since the injuries increased his role.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 25, 2024, 10:19:26 AM
There were a lot more minutes available for those dudes.
Zaide had a rough night but I like his trajectory. He's had a Chase-like impact since the injuries increased his role.
Not sure I agree. Lots of minutes with Chase, Sean and Omax. Time to step up. Both are getting similar to date as Ben last year which will only go up. Seize them.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 25, 2024, 10:23:44 AM
Not sure I agree. Lots of minutes with Chase, Sean and Omax. Time to step up. Both are getting similar to date as Ben last year which will only go up. Seize them.
Yeah there are more available now with the injuries. But before that there wasn't.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 25, 2024, 10:06:53 AM
Last season, MU had three freshmen consistently contribute. This season, not so much. It's now their time to step up. Shaka keeps hyping this class so he sees something at practice.
Scoopers aren't asking for Carmelo, they are asking for freshman Ben, Sean and Chase.
That's fair, Dr. B.
I'm glad Zaide has gotten to contribute a pretty good amount in a few games since the injuries. We definitely could use more from Norman.
Still ... and maybe I'm reading it wrong ... but the O.P. did seem to be asking for more of a Carmelo kind of impact than a freshman Gold kind of impact.
Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 07:47:23 AM
When I was young and knew everything
She a punk who rarely ever took advice
Now I'm guilt-stricken, sobbin', with my head on the floor
Or are we talking the Marlon Brando, Matthew Broderick, Penelope Ann Miller, komodo dragon, movie?
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 25, 2024, 12:46:30 AM
Not just this thread.
Maybe being down by the floor gave me a different perspective but they hit some ridiculously tough shots just to stay within 10-18 points of Marquette.
Yeah there were some bad turnovers. The freshmen had a freshman game. crap happens.
This. Was pretty close to the action as well. DePaul made really tough guarded shots several times. If we hadn't shot the three well that would have been a much closer game.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on January 25, 2024, 11:25:53 AM
Now I'm guilt-stricken, sobbin', with my head on the floor
Thanks. I was getting worried.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 25, 2024, 12:22:46 PM
This. Was pretty close to the action as well. DePaul made really tough guarded shots several times. If we hadn't shot the three well that would have been a much closer game.
Terry also hit the unguarded shots.
I think Sean's injury may hurt us more next year than this year...
Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 02:03:50 PM
Thanks. I was getting worried.
I am strangely obsessed w that song
Quote from: avid1010 on January 25, 2024, 06:06:41 PM
I think Sean's injury may hurt us more next year than this year...
I'm hoping Shaka looks for a PG in the portal. Assuming Kolek leaves, Sean's injury really presses the issue.
The other option is to play Kam and Stevie as the PG/SG combo with Ross starting at the 3rd guard spot.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 27, 2024, 09:44:34 AM
I'm hoping Shaka looks for a PG in the portal. Assuming Kolek leaves, Sean's injury really presses the issue.
The other option is to play Kam and Stevie as the PG/SG combo with Ross starting at the 3rd guard spot.
He'd being a disservice to the roster if he isn't active in the portal this year. I'd think a good PG seeing how TKO runs this offense would love to play in it
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 27, 2024, 09:52:30 AM
He'd being a disservice to the roster if he isn't active in the portal this year. I'd think a good PG seeing how TKO runs this offense would love to play in it
Exactly. Not pursuing PGs is akin to punting on the season.
A star PG, Kam, Stevie, Jop, and Gold with Chase as the super sub is still a really good team.
Kolek, O-Max, and Oso all made their biggest leaps between their sophomore and junior years. If Gold and Chase do that, next year's team will be a lot better than most Scoopers are predicting.
Quote from: LloydsLegs on January 27, 2024, 09:25:27 AM
I am strangely obsessed w that song
I have stories, but shan't derail this thread again.