1. It's DePaul, It's DePaul
2. What a start. Inevitable, after making a bunch of 3's and playing well nigh perfect, that the team would get 3 happy and sloppy.
3. Oso the point guard. Cool new wrinkle. Not as cool when Joplin tries to replicate.
4. The defense was not stellar. Particularly against 3s. Again.
5. Foul trouble. Grrrrr. DePaul sure had a lot of fouls to give at the end.
6. Good thing Gold listens to Shaka and not scoopers. He had a lot of run tonight and did well on both ends. Stellar help defense. Can still improve on the perimeter.
7. DePaul worked hard for their new coach.
8. Norman and Lowery had opportunities.
9. MU had a whole lot go wrong. Some circumstantial. More self inflicted. But they didn't lose.
10. Revenge time on Saturday.
Another terrible loss
Pretty uninspiring effort but a win is a win. Big one Saturday. Need chase back soon.
Need Ross back soon.
Foul trouble was only what it was because we dont have him and SJ as first off bench.
DePaul actually only shot like 2 free throws in 2nd half. But 7 fouls hurts a lot more when we are so relient on the starters.
Nice to see the threes start to fall. We just need Kam to break out of the slump.
11. An obvious (theoretical) night off, so no reason to play tough D.
Keeping winning, even if it's DePaul.
Not enough Oso, should have taken 20 shots. Those DePaul bigs were nailed to the floor guarding him.
Injuries, first game with major foul trouble, why can't Amadou play? Can't be that bad.
Have to bring Defense every game. It is a habit. Defense and Kam were the on,y questions tonight. Bench - well Ben scored 9. Tre and Xaide.... I zero. Jop 20. Nice.
Hope the team makes it out of Chicago alive.
Amadeau should have been redshirted, not even sure he has played in a Big East game yet. This is a wasted year for him, sure he can improve in practice everyday, but as A.I. said, "it's practice". It's not like in 8 or 9 months he is going to improve that much. Gold and Parham are going to get majority of time next year, not even sure he is ahead of Hamilton since he is so skinny. Will he transfer, it might be best that he does.
This is not a long term career worry. But for this year especially until Ross is back. Im pretty worried about Norman.
Lowery looked closer to D2 than BE tonight. But hes had some excellent moments in the last couple games. Norman had a nice move to hoop vs nova. And seems like he might rebound decently for his size. But other than that he hasnt shown much of anything
Just not a factor on offense and fouls on D. Just dont have to guard him.
Quote from: nyg on January 24, 2024, 10:09:45 PM
Keeping winning, even if it's DePaul.
Not enough Oso, should have taken 20 shots. Those DePaul bigs were nailed to the floor guarding him.
Injuries, first game with major foul trouble, why can't Amadou play? Can't be that bad.
They didn't need Amadou - Oso was great and Ben very good. They needed another guard tonight as only TK and Stevie showed up.
I was impressed with how the new coach had DePaul pushing the ball. Let them be athletes and see what they can do. I'll be interested to see how their next few games look.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 24, 2024, 10:19:22 PM
They didn't need Amadou - Oso was great and Ben very good. They needed another guard tonight as only TK and Stevie showed up.
Mitchell has been very solid all season. We desperately need Kam to find his game.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 24, 2024, 10:17:50 PM
This is not a long term career worry. But for this year especially until Ross is back. Im pretty worried about Norman.
Lowery looked closer to D2 than BE tonight. But hes had some excellent moments in the last couple games. Norman had a nice move to hoop vs nova. And seems like he might rebound decently for his size. But other than that he hasnt shown much of anything
Just not a factor on offense and fouls on D. Just dont have to guard him.
Chase has been underwhelming all season long. Sean Jones was a bigger loss as far as impact. Hopefully Chase can regain some of the form of his freshman year. The big leap many were expecting to happen had not happened and his 26% 3pt shooting, and 46% eFG weren't adding too much.
Yeah DePaul isn't good this year but we beat a BE team on the road by >10. Dub - on to the next one.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:30:34 PM
Chase has been underwhelming all season long. Sean Jones was a bigger loss as far as impact. Hopefully Chase can regain some of the form of his freshman year. The big leap many were expecting to happen had not happened and his 26% 3pt shooting, and 46% eFG weren't adding too much.
Chase is active defensively and good in transition.
PLus has an ability to attack the paint and draw fouls which Lowery and Norman cant really do...yet.
For the team as a whole Ross is really the only option to draw contact. His leap has not been there but hes definitely needed and a great 6th man.
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 10:25:44 PM
Didn't cover, Shaka is an idiot!
What kind of stimulants are you on tonight pal
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:30:34 PM
Chase has been underwhelming all season long. Sean Jones was a bigger loss as far as impact. Hopefully Chase can regain some of the form of his freshman year. The big leap many were expecting to happen had not happened and his 26% 3pt shooting, and 46% eFG weren't adding too much.
Ball knower exposes himself. You're watching only one side of the ball. Absolute menace defensively. Oso is the best defender on the team, but Sean and Stevie are elite disruptors.
Freshman didn't do much to win trust tonight.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 24, 2024, 10:33:33 PM
What kind of stimulants are you on tonight pal
Many, why? Shaka suxs
Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 10:25:44 PM
Didn't cover, Shaka is an idiot!
I know it sounds silly but covering the spread = outperforming metrics. It's not just the degenerate gamblers who care these days, so does the selection committee. It pays to cover!
Quote from: withoutbias on January 24, 2024, 10:33:42 PM
Ball knower exposes himself. You're watching only one side of the ball. Absolute menace defensively. Oso is the best defender on the team, but Sean and Stevie are elite disruptors.
He has always been an idiot, HS dunker says he, ha!
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 24, 2024, 10:16:32 PM
Hope the team makes it out of Chicago alive.
Already sold my Seton Hall ticket bc I'm expecting to be at a memorial service for our murdered cagers.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:30:34 PM
Chase has been underwhelming all season long. Sean Jones was a bigger loss as far as impact. Hopefully Chase can regain some of the form of his freshman year. The big leap many were expecting to happen had not happened and his 26% 3pt shooting, and 46% eFG weren't adding too much.
Many = Shaka, who said numerous times before and early in the season that Ross was the team's most improved player.
Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:39:04 PM
Many = Shaka, who said numerous times before and early in the season that Ross was the team's most improved player.
He is a fraud like the real Elon
Quote from: withoutbias on January 24, 2024, 10:33:42 PM
Ball knower exposes himself. You're watching only one side of the ball. Absolute menace defensively. Oso is the best defender on the team, but Sean and Stevie are elite disruptors.
I agree with your ranking of defenders on the squad. I'd put Chase at 4th best after Oso, Stevie, and Sean. That aside I think Zaide will prove to be a better defender and player than Chase over time.
Great feeling deleting the DePaul ticket app as soon as you walk out of a no-sweat win (even if we didn't cover)
If there's such a thing as an unsatisfying win, this was it. Let's hope we get a W in the other category Sat.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on January 24, 2024, 10:20:29 PM
I was impressed with how the new coach had DePaul pushing the ball. Let them be athletes and see what they can do. I'll be interested to see how their next few games look.
Except early they didn't get back on defense, even after a make
Best trey and efg% game of the year. Slumpbuster.
Oso played like a first rounder. Stud
MU's close outs again way late on defensive rotations. Maddening
Not really much to take away but I came away with 3/4 things
1- Oso looks like he belongs in the nba when he doesn't play against elite/BE caliber bigs
2- TyKo is really trying to get that shot back
3- Shaka is really trying to get Zaide into the rotation.
This was the big one for me tonight. Zaide plaide like crap, air balled a 3 and then threw an alley oop to Oso that was brutal and he seemed to be the only one that knew it was planned for Oso. Then, he stared the senior leader down and gave him visible attitude on their way to the bench.
I wondered if that was it for him for the game and if Shaka would pull the plug. I wasn't sure.
The fact that Shaka sent him out a bunch in the 2H when he was playing like crap tells me all I need to know.
I think Shaka knows Chase might be out longer than expected and/or that he will need Zaide, and I'm glad he let the kid roll in his struggles. To Osos credit, he brought Zaide in for instruction and TLC.
4- Ben is way too non EGB.
Made 3 threes, stroke still didn't look good despite the makes.
Where's the energy though? He's just blah.
No offense against the kid but show some emotion, show some passion, you're playing for Shaka and a top 15 team.
Shaka is stuck to him this season, so a late of the season run can definitely do him good, but I think he rolls him out there by necessity.
Someone light a fire in the kids ass
5- Jop loves Wintrust, and his shot is way better when it "touches the sky J" as Muggs would say.
Speaking of that, oh hi Kam remember when you were being called the best backcourt in America?
Quote from: The Lens on January 24, 2024, 10:37:35 PM
Already sold my Seton Hall ticket bc I'm expecting to be at a memorial service for our murdered cagers.
I'm sad to report I was murdered 5 more times on the way home. This city, she is ruthless
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 24, 2024, 11:59:00 PM
Best trey and efg% game of the year. Slumpbuster.
Oso played like a first rounder. Stud
MU's close outs again way late on defensive rotations. Maddening
Scout I talked to agreed on Oso
I'm glad Zaide didn't back down when Oso scolded him on the lob. It was there and Oso just didn't see it / expect it. We don't need another deer-in-headlights frosh; that's Norman's role apparently.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on January 24, 2024, 10:31:17 PM
Yeah DePaul isn't good this year but we beat a BE team on the road by >10. Dub - on to the next one.
I just watched the game. Stop using logic. It's infuriating to those who have none.
Shaka post-game: if you don't like Ben Gold, there is something wrong with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4FXafi_5KY
I really enjoyed seeing him get 26 minutes. Some very good help defense. Yes, he still has trouble defending guards driving to the basket from 25 feet away.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 25, 2024, 12:14:33 AM
Scout I talked to agreed on Oso
The scout I talked to didn't think much about Oso when I asked, but she did sell me a couple boxes of delicious cookies.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on January 24, 2024, 10:31:17 PM
Yeah DePaul isn't good this year but we beat a BE team on the road by >10. Dub - on to the next one.
Ban this guy! Posts like this have no place on scoop.
DePaul played alot better than I expected. Terry was hot from 3 (shooters always seem to get hot against us). Several times they could have just quit but they keep coming back. Even with 3 minutes left they were playing hard. Don't know if they were looser because Stubblefield wasn't yelling at them the whole time or if they just always play better against MU but it was not the dominant preformance I'd hoped we'd see. Think MU got a little 3 happy and stopped looking for cutters. We'll take it but look when there's foul trouble was not pretty.
Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:39:04 PM
Many = Shaka, who said numerous times before and early in the season that Ross was the team's most improved player.
I was one of the many (based on last year and Shaka's comments) who expected a break out from Chase this year. I was hoping he could keep Joplin in the 6th man, instant offense role for which he was better suited. Maybe he still can but pre injury he was really struggling.
I, too, was optimistic about Ross. He has not made a huge, ready-for-the-NBA, leap. As far as Ross starting in order to keep Joplin in the 6th man role, it never made sense to me. First of all, starting 4 guards under 6'5 in the Big East, except out of necessity, doesn't seem optimal to me. In my head, I always saw Oso at 30, Joplin at 25, Ben at 25. Ish. 5 guards filling three positions. TKO and Kam at 30, Stevie at 25, Ross at 20, Sean at 15. Ish. Gold finally got to 26 last night and I thought the team was better for it. Zaide and Tre have not shown that they are ready for the minutes I mentally projected for Chase and Sean. Hopefully, they continue to put in the work and they and the team see the rewards of their work.
tower
You know my feelings on Gold and not making any excuses for his play this year, but I do think extended playing time helped him a lot. Too often, much because of his play, he gets very short stints on the court and never gets comfortable. That can be said for the freshmen as well. One thing that I think some on here miss is that MU has two extremely good and older players on this team and they are really good. So good that they play almost every minute of the game.
I am not going to grade the freshmen because they get limited time and different lineups on a regular basis. More importantly, TK is almost a 23y high level guard and to compare a 18y Norman to him is beyond foolish, imo. I have no idea what their ceiling might be, but they sure as hell are not going to have impact like the big three. We are spoiled as hell with Oso and TK and I think that jades opinions other players.
Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 07:09:10 AM
I, too, was optimistic about Ross. He has not made a huge, ready-for-the-NBA, leap. As far as Ross starting in order to keep Joplin in the 6th man role, it never made sense to me. First of all, starting 4 guards under 6'5 in the Big East, except out of necessity, doesn't seem optimal to me. In my head, I always saw Oso at 30, Joplin at 25, Ben at 25. Ish. 5 guards filling three positions. TKO and Kam at 30, Stevie at 25, Ross at 20, Sean at 15. Ish. Gold finally got to 26 last night and I thought the team was better for it. Zaide and Tre have not shown that they are ready for the minutes I mentally projected for Chase and Sean. Hopefully, they continue to put in the work and they and the team see the rewards of their work.
Ross, Gold or Jop was going to get that starting spot. None were ideal. Ross is a bit small, but is athletic, quick and can jump and play D. Jop is also on the short side (maybe 6'6" but I doubt it) and he plays small. He has one semi elite talent - outside shooting (instant offense best suited off the bench) but in every other phase - ball handling, defense, quickness, decision making, hops - he is well below average. Maybe you start Ross against smaller lineups and Gold against bigger ones. Best option would have been the portal.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 25, 2024, 08:01:47 AM
Ross, Gold or Jop was going to get that starting spot. None were ideal. Ross is a bit small, but is athletic, quick and can jump and play D. Jop is also on the short side (maybe 6'6" but I doubt it) and he plays small. He has one semi elite talent - outside shooting (instant offense best suited off the bench) but in every other phase - ball handling, defense, quickness, decision making, hops - he is well below average. Maybe you start Ross against smaller lineups and Gold against bigger ones. Best option would have been the portal.
Jop's defensive rebounding has improved and seems to be one of his better skills. If he gets his hands on the ball, he's normally able to secure it. Which is odd considering he can't dribble to save his life
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:30:34 PM
Chase has been underwhelming all season long. Sean Jones was a bigger loss as far as impact. Hopefully Chase can regain some of the form of his freshman year. The big leap many were expecting to happen had not happened and his 26% 3pt shooting, and 46% eFG weren't adding too much.
Underwhelming on offense. A motherloving bear trap on defense
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:43:21 PM
I agree with your ranking of defenders on the squad. I'd put Chase at 4th best after Oso, Stevie, and Sean. That aside I think Zaide will prove to be a better defender and player than Chase over time.
Oso and chase are the two best defenders and not even close. Stevie is the best disruptor and a silid defender. Sean is a disruptor but not a good defender.
Quote from: pbiflyer on January 25, 2024, 06:21:55 AM
The scout I talked to didn't think much about Oso when I asked, but she did sell me a couple boxes of delicious cookies.
Hope you stocked up on the Thin Mints!
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 25, 2024, 08:54:11 AM
Underwhelming on offense. A motherloving bear trap on defense
Oso and chase are the two best defenders and not even close. Stevie is the best disruptor and a silid defender. Sean is a disruptor but not a good defender.
Marquette is 14.5 points/100 possessions better on defense when Chase is on the floor. The only person in that stratosphere is Zaide. As Chase has played more than double the minutes of Zaide and the garbage time Zaide plays, I would argue Ross' numbers are more statistically significant.
Chase has been a monster defender. He has been underwhelming on offense, but he's excellent on defense.
Agree on Chase's defense.
Any legit word on when he might be back?
Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on January 25, 2024, 12:46:11 AM
I'm glad Zaide didn't back down when Oso scolded him on the lob. It was there and Oso just didn't see it / expect it. We don't need another deer-in-headlights frosh; that's Norman's role apparently.
Didn't really see the Zaide/Oso interaction, but I thought Zaide 100% should have taken that drive all the way to the rack as it was there. Was really surprised he threw that lob, as it appeared to me he may have had a chance to finish with a dunk if he went all the way to the bucket. If Oso "scolded" Zaide I suspect it was from the perspective of you need to finish that on your own as the finish was there for the taking.
Quote from: MU82 on January 25, 2024, 09:11:30 AM
Agree on Chase's defense.
Any legit word on when he might be back?
He got hurt on Jan. 6 (not uncommon). We were told it was 4 weeks. I would hold him out until NMD (Feb 10). This gets him back for our 4 toughest remaining games
St. John's
@UConn
@Creighton
UConn
Lenny, there are conflicting schools of thought as to whether you start offense and bring in defense or vice versa. I can argue either one. The thing with Ross that to me makes him a better bench player than starter ON THIS YEAR'S ROSTER (no speculation going forward) is that he is a dude who can play with anyone. That kind of versatility in a smaller wing screams bringing him off the bench to change the dynamic.
Quote from: The Lens on January 25, 2024, 09:35:57 AM
He got hurt on Jan. 6 (not uncommon). We were told it was 4 weeks. I would hold him out until NMD (Feb 10). This gets him back for our 4 toughest remaining games
St. John's
@UConn
@Creighton
UConn
Last night was the first game that he wasn't wearing the sling. I'll assume that's progress
I thin that alley oop dunk by Oso against the zone was a called play. Very subtle and if it isn't there get ino the set. Ben taking off was a decoy. Both defenders in the neighborhood watched him go. Oso timed his slip perfectly with their eyes off the ball for a nanosecond.
Not the best game MU has played this year by a long shot. But, great to see 3's falling. Defense was suspect. But, I want to give Ben Gold credit; he played a really good game on both ends of the floor. And, I have one request of David Joplin - please don't dribble. Either shoot or pass, but do not dribble.
Anyone know how many deflections they got last night?
I didn't see too many. And I know DePaul had fewer turnovers than we did.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 25, 2024, 10:12:59 AM
Anyone know how many deflections they got last night?
I didn't see too many. And I know DePaul had fewer turnovers than we did.
Not sure of the total number. Stevie may have had 8 or so in the first 10 minutes himself, but it seemed the team went to sleep a bit once they went up 16 or 18 with about5 mins left in the first half.
Quote from: rgoode57 on January 25, 2024, 10:07:16 AM
Not the best game MU has played this year by a long shot. But, great to see 3's falling. Defense was suspect. But, I want to give Ben Gold credit; he played a really good game on both ends of the floor. And, I have one request of David Joplin - please don't dribble. Either shoot or pass, but do not dribble.
There is no more true statement for this team. How does this continue to happen??? It ALWAYS ends in, at best, a terrible shot, or at worst, a turnover. Please stop!!!!!
The Good:
1. The 3 ball falling early
2. Little by little Kolek is getting out of his funk
3. Jop on a heater
4. Some Ben love here
4a Getting some arc back on his 3 point shot and having success with it
4b Looking better with his movement - offensively and defensively. (I think a lot of posters forget he was dealing with shin splints and missed most of preseason practice)
4c Good to see him getting additional minutes
5. Stevie knocking down some 3s and providing some scoring
6. Free throw shooting. It always matters.
The Bad:
1. Those 5 minute spans where we can't score a bucket. It's an ongoing problem.
2. Foul trouble. Need Chase back even for 10 minutes a game
3. Jop can't jump over a pencil and his drives are cringeworthy. Stick to what you do best young man.
4. We are the best in the country at fouling 3 point shooters. This has to stop
5. We need to put teams away when they are on the ropes
6. Inability to once again stop the opposing player who is hot from deep
7. Freshmen having a bad day
Thoughts:
1. Chase is missed badly more on the defensive end. Still a high impact player. I miss those steals that lead to his breakaway dunks.
2. Zaide had a bad game but he is getting quality minutes and has incredible talent. The game yesterday will make him a better player today and the day after and the day after.
3. Tre has not had a great season but again him getting quality minutes will help him going forward. He might not make a huge difference this year but he is very talented and will be very impactful next year.
Quote from: DoctorV on January 25, 2024, 12:05:26 AM
1- Oso looks like he belongs in the nba when he doesn't play against elite/BE caliber bigs
Oso looks like he belongs in the NBA when he's playing against elite/BE caliber bigs even more than when he's not (with the exception of last night, when he was at his best). Dude has dominated the likes of Dickinson, Bona, Soriano, and Kalkbrenner this year. Even only playing 26 minutes due to foul trouble, he had 16/5/2, a steal, and a block with 0 turnovers against Purdue/Edey. Edey did dominate offensively in that game, though.
Quote from: DoctorV on January 25, 2024, 12:05:26 AM
4- Ben is way too non EGB.
Made 3 threes, stroke still didn't look good despite the makes.
Where's the energy though? He's just blah.
No offense against the kid but show some emotion, show some passion, you're playing for Shaka and a top 15 team.
Shaka is stuck to him this season, so a late of the season run can definitely do him good, but I think he rolls him out there by necessity.
Someone light a fire in the kids ass
Ben plays with a ton of energy defensively. He's in there fighting hard. Not everyone can/wants to be/is screaming after every big play they make. Zaide and Tre seem similar to Ben. Steady.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 25, 2024, 10:51:35 AM
Oso looks like he belongs in the NBA when he's playing against elite/BE caliber bigs even more than when he's not (with the exception of last night, when he was at his best). Dude has dominated the likes of Dickinson, Bona, Soriano, and Kalkbrenner this year. Even only playing 26 minutes due to foul trouble, he had 16/5/2, a steal, and a block with 0 turnovers against Purdue/Edey. Edey did dominate offensively in that game, though.
I think what gets the NBA scouts excited is his potential. He is still not fully polished with a switchable skill set and a high ceiling.
Quote from: swoopem on January 25, 2024, 09:45:19 AM
Last night was the first game that he wasn't wearing the sling. I'll assume that's progress
He wasn't wearing the sling at the SJ game.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 25, 2024, 11:11:49 AM
He wasn't wearing the sling at the SJ game.
Ahh, I was at a family function watching that game on my phone. Even more progress!
I was there and what impressed the heck out of me was Stevie's play all game long. He seems to really pick up the team when they go into a sort of sleep mode or seem to lose their moxy a bit. He is fearless when he goes to the basket and is opportunistic on defense.
I thought he was the best all around player yesterday. I know Oso and TK are at another level, score/assist on all/most of our points etc. but watching the game Stevie constantly seems to be leading this team, the most aware player on the court.
Yes. Which is why Shaka loves Stevie more than scoopers do.
Quote from: milwaukee ex-pat on January 25, 2024, 11:45:49 AM
I was there and what impressed the heck out of me was Stevie's play all game long. He seems to really pick up the team when they go into a sort of sleep mode or seem to lose their moxy a bit. He is fearless when he goes to the basket and is opportunistic on defense.
I thought he was the best all around player yesterday. I know Oso and TK are at another level, score/assist on all/most of our points etc. but watching the game Stevie constantly seems to be leading this team, the most aware player on the court.
That's just who he is. The grinder. It was obvious how much the team missed him when he was injured, and it is no coincidence that we lost some of those winnable games without him in the lineup.