MUScoop

Should they have Steve Novak come to practice and help Ben Gold with his shot? As it is now you might as well have Oso take 3's.

Have him stop fading away on wide open threes.  All arms and very little arc when he does that.

I imagine they are working on his shot on a daily basis. There's a lot of mental blocks for everyone right now with their shots, gold especially.

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 21, 2024, 12:10:21 PM
Have him stop fading away on wide open threes.  All arms and very little arc when he does that.

100%. On the rare occasion Gold goes straight up, he's typically good. But 90% of the time he fades...hence as you say, all arms and flat.

Yeah when he has good form it looks great. It's just not consistently good form. Hope that comes around.

Joplin too, typically has angled feet and a contorting body on wide open threes, kind of odd. Seems like he's better with a hand in his face than on wide open rhythm shots (obviously anecdotal). I do admire his confidence though

Quote from: Marqevans on January 21, 2024, 12:01:18 PM
Should they have Steve Novak come to practice and help Ben Gold with his shot? As it is now you might as well have Oso take 3's.

If Novak can get away from his neighborhood watch responsibilities

Quote from: Marqevans on January 21, 2024, 12:01:18 PM
Should they have Steve Novak come to practice and help Ben Gold with his shot?

They have.

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on January 21, 2024, 12:28:22 PM
Joplin too, typically has angled feet and a contorting body on wide open threes, kind of odd. Seems like he's better with a hand in his face than on wide open rhythm shots (obviously anecdotal).

That's what is keeping Jop from becoming a truly reliable shooter. Every release is a little different.

Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 21, 2024, 12:15:56 PM
I imagine they are working on his shot on a daily basis. There's a lot of mental blocks for everyone right now with their shots, gold especially.

What? Are you actually trying to claim that Shaka and his assistants are working on things WITHOUT the help of Scoopers?

Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 21, 2024, 12:32:17 PM
If Novak can get away from his neighborhood watch responsibilities

Heard the Whitefish Bay Mayor is a ball buster.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 21, 2024, 12:36:00 PM
Heard the Whitefish Bay Mayor is a ball buster.

I was wondering where Crean landed.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 21, 2024, 12:49:14 PM
I was wondering where Crean landed.

Pretty sure the WFB Dictator for Life has perma-banned Crean's arse and exiled it back to The Quon Penal Colony.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 21, 2024, 01:35:25 PM
Pretty sure the WFB Dictator for Life has perma-banned Crean's arse and exiled it back to The Quon Penal Colony.

(https://i.imgflip.com/2vihsc.jpg)

Hasn't made a 3 in 2024.

What's odd is that Gold's percentage had been improving gradually this season. After he made 3 against Georgetown, he was up to a very respectable - good even - .381. Several Scoopers observed that his shot looked like it had a little more arc than early in the season.

But starting with the 12/30 game vs Creighton, he is 0-for-12, and the shot looks pancake-flat again.

We sure could use a few 3s from Ben going forward.

"Pancake flat" is a great description.

It is strange that a guy who seems to have figured it out regressed to the form that was causing problems. I trust in Shaka and his staff to get Ben to retool his shot once again.

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 21, 2024, 04:18:02 PM
"Pancake flat" is a great description.

Sounds a lot like me ex wife

Gold is shooting 29% from 3 this year, and 30% last year.

I would think just about every player on the team could hit 3 of 10.

Why is he considered a 3 point shooter?

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 21, 2024, 01:35:25 PM
Pretty sure the WFB Dictator for Life has perma-banned Crean's arse and exiled it back to The Quon Penal Colony.

We'll take him if he pledges to pay for our soccer stadium.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 21, 2024, 08:11:03 PM
Why is he considered a 3 point shooter?

Because he is better than Chase, Sean, Stevie, and Tre at shooting them.

My only gripe is he and joplin should just do exactly what the other guy is doing.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 21, 2024, 08:11:03 PM
Why is he considered a 3 point shooter?

Again, he was at .381 going into the Creighton game.

For a big, that's not bad, and it's a way to get an opposing big out of the lane.

But I guess that was just fool's Gold.

Bravo

Forget about the 3s for the rest of the season. Stick with the pump fake drive. Haven't seen that in a while.

Summer is the time to be putting up 1,000s of shots. MU's Brett Nelson restructured JJJ's three pointer form after sophomore season, ended up shooting .385 and .381 junior and Senior season and was consistent .

Quote from: Herman Cain on January 21, 2024, 09:03:10 PM
Forget about the 3s for the rest of the season. Stick with the pump fake drive. Haven't seen that in a while.

Summer is the time to be putting up 1,000s of shots. MU's Brett Nelson restructured JJJ's three pointer form after sophomore season, ended up shooting .385 and .381 junior and Senior season and was consistent .

Yes. Because pump and blow bys are so effective when you're not a threat to shoot the 3.

Quote from: wadesworld on January 21, 2024, 09:04:52 PM
Yes. Because pump and blow bys are so effective when you're not a threat to shoot the 3.

And not exactly speedy.

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on January 21, 2024, 12:28:22 PM
Joplin too, typically has angled feet and a contorting body on wide open threes, kind of odd. Seems like he's better with a hand in his face than on wide open rhythm shots (obviously anecdotal). I do admire his confidence though

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but last season Joplin shot a higher percentage on guarded threes vs unguarded threes. I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile, but the same was true through the Wisconsin game this season. It's brain breaking

If Gold can't hit 3's, has no ability to go by the defender, apparently has no game on the blocks, is not a menace on the boards, marginal at best on D, what's he offer? And Al Amadou can't take a few of Ben's minutes? (yes, I know 82, I'm not at practice everyday)

Quote from: Viper on January 21, 2024, 09:38:11 PM
If Gold can't hit 3's, has no ability to go by the defender, apparently has no game on the blocks, is not a menace on the boards, marginal at best on D, what's he offer? And Al Amadou can't take a few of Ben's minutes? (yes, I know 82, I'm not at practice everyday)

Gold suxs, hopeless.

Quote from: Viper on January 21, 2024, 09:38:11 PM
If Gold can't hit 3's, has no ability to go by the defender, apparently has no game on the blocks, is not a menace on the boards, marginal at best on D, what's he offer? And Al Amadou can't take a few of Ben's minutes? (yes, I know 82, I'm not at practice everyday)

Thanks for answering your own question.

Seriously, don't you think if Shaka believed Amadou had more to offer than Gold, Shaka would give Amadou at least a few of Gold's minutes? Or (far less seriously) maybe you think Gold is blackmailing Shaka in some way?

Coaches want to win. They will do what they deem necessary to win.

Gold is a 3-point threat, he plays decent post defense, he's a pretty good defensive rebounder, he plays hard, he knows and accepts his role. If Shaka Smart believed Amadou offered more than that, Amadou would play. Sorry, but that's the only answer that matters.

Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2024, 10:29:52 PM
Thanks for answering your own question.

Seriously, don't you think if Shaka believed Amadou had more to offer than Gold, Shaka would give Amadou at least a few of Gold's minutes? Or (far less seriously) maybe you think Gold is blackmailing Shaka in some way?

Coaches want to win. They will do what they deem necessary to win.

Gold is a 3-point threat, he plays decent post defense, he's a pretty good defensive rebounder, he plays hard, he knows and accepts his role. If Shaka Smart believed Amadou offered more than that, Amadou would play. Sorry, but that's the only answer that matters.

thx for enlightening me that that's the only answer that matters. Whew!
Gold a 3-ball threat? Please. I'll let him shoot that omelette of a set shot all day. Beat me if you can.

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 08:10:00 AM
thx for enlightening me that that's the only answer that matters. Whew!
Gold a 3-ball threat? Please. I'll let him shoot that omelette of a set shot all day. Beat me if you can.

I'm with MU '82 on this one. Ben is a serviceable, versatile player with assets/liabilities on both sides of the court. IOW, like most NCAA D1 hoopers. You've got me in the mood for an omelette now. Or should I just listen to the Scrambled Eggs podcast?

Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2024, 10:29:52 PM

Coaches want to win. They will do what they deem necessary to win.

Gold is a 3-point threat, he plays decent post defense, he's a pretty good defensive rebounder, he plays hard, he knows and accepts his role. If Shaka Smart believed Amadou offered more than that, Amadou would play. Sorry, but that's the only answer that matters.

All of that is true except for the "Gold is a 3-point threat" part. 

The mid-point of 3-point shooting for all 312 teams is 33.6%.  Gold is 4 points below that. 

He's more than one standard deviation away from being average. 

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 22, 2024, 08:51:36 AM
All of that is true except for the "Gold is a 3-point threat" part. 

The mid-point of 3-point shooting for all 312 teams is 33.6%.  Gold is 4 points below that. 

He's more than one standard deviation away from being average.

I didn't say he was a threat to make them!

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 22, 2024, 08:51:36 AM
All of that is true except for the "Gold is a 3-point threat" part. 

The mid-point of 3-point shooting for all 312 teams is 33.6%.  Gold is 4 points below that. 

He's more than one standard deviation away from being average.

He's in a funk, but the whole team is. In our past 5 games, MU is at 37/133 (27.8%). Ben is 0/12, so he's contributed to that, but the rest of the team is still just at 30.6%, so he's not alone in that regard.

Before that, he was at 16/42 on the season (38.1%). So which is accurate? The 13 game sample size or the 5 game sample size? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but the larger sample shows him to be significantly better than he's been of late.

He is still a three point threat because he's shown the ability to make those shots and teams will cover him at the arc. He hasn't been good of late, but the threat is still there.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2024, 09:17:54 AM
He's in a funk, but the whole team is. In our past 5 games, MU is at 37/133 (27.8%). Ben is 0/12, so he's contributed to that, but the rest of the team is still just at 30.6%, so he's not alone in that regard.

Before that, he was at 16/42 on the season (38.1%). So which is accurate? The 13 game sample size or the 5 game sample size? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but the larger sample shows him to be significantly better than he's been of late.

He is still a three point threat because he's shown the ability to make those shots and teams will cover him at the arc. He hasn't been good of late, but the threat is still there.

Much better answer than mine ... but admit it - not as funny!

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2024, 09:17:54 AM
He's in a funk, but the whole team is. In our past 5 games, MU is at 37/133 (27.8%). Ben is 0/12, so he's contributed to that, but the rest of the team is still just at 30.6%, so he's not alone in that regard.

Before that, he was at 16/42 on the season (38.1%). So which is accurate? The 13 game sample size or the 5 game sample size? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but the larger sample shows him to be significantly better than he's been of late.

He is still a three point threat because he's shown the ability to make those shots and teams will cover him at the arc. He hasn't been good of late, but the threat is still there.

...at what point does funk, slump become just not a very good shooting team?

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 09:22:22 AM
...at what point does funk, slump become just not a very good shooting team?

Team suxs

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 09:22:22 AM
...at what point does funk, slump become just not a very good shooting team?

Kind of depends on whether you are a glass half empty or a glass half full person.

College shooters are inherently streaky. This is a bad slump for a lot of the team.

Better now than March. Still feel good about this team if they can get in a groove at the right time.

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 09:22:22 AM
...at what point does funk, slump become just not a very good shooting team?

It's a valid question. Prior to this, our shooters were pretty much all over 40% on open threes, which is why we work so hard for those looks. I truly believed that natural progression from our returning players and replacing O-Max's threes with Jop threes would lead to a better shooting team, not worse.

We are 45% of the way through the season averaging 25.9 threes per game and making 31.5% of them. To equal what we did last year, we would have to go roughly 219/570 (38.4%) in our final 22 games. Is that possible? Certainly. But the way things have gone of late it sure doesn't feel likely.

Shooting across high school college and pro ball is a lost art. Isn't it amazing the bad shooting form so many players have? Every now & then a guy will have an odd release, but it still works. That's quite rare, however.  Here's a question...would you rather have a shooter, or a scorer?

MU had players with perfect form on their jumpers who were great shooters.  Two left, one is a top 25 alltime scorer in the NCAA, and the guy who recruited them got fired.   Oh, and Rowsey.

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 10:15:31 AM
Shooting across high school college and pro ball is a lost art. Isn't it amazing the bad shooting form so many players have? Every now & then a guy will have an odd release, but it still works. That's quite rare, however.  Here's a question...would you rather have a shooter, or a scorer?

Just a theory, but I attribute some of that to the fact kids are chucking from distance very young because it is the cool thing to do. In order to get it there, they are chucking and getting well outside the shooter's pocket where one needs to be for consistent shooting. Muscle memory is hard to break. Steph Curry had a great interview or show where he talked about people now doing the process backwards. He learned from shooting close and developing great form. That enabled him to expand his range and become the greatest shooter of all time. When you start from 18-21 feet out as a young kid, the proper form is never developed.

Quote from: StillWarriors on January 22, 2024, 10:25:29 AM
Just a theory, but I attribute some of that to the fact kids are chucking from distance very young because it is the cool thing to do. In order to get it there, they are chucking and getting well outside the shooter's pocket where one needs to be for consistent shooting. Muscle memory is hard to break. Steph Curry had a great interview or show where he talked about people now doing the process backwards. He learned from shooting close and developing great form. That enabled him to expand his range and become the greatest shooter of all time. When you start from 18-21 feet out as a young kid, the proper form is never developed.

American basketball development is 💯 trash at lower levels. 

Quote from: Viper on January 21, 2024, 09:38:11 PM
If Gold can't hit 3's, has no ability to go by the defender, apparently has no game on the blocks, is not a menace on the boards, marginal at best on D, what's he offer? And Al Amadou can't take a few of Ben's minutes? (yes, I know 82, I'm not at practice everyday)

Gold has the best DR% on the team and second best OR%. He's doing well on the glass. He needs to find his stroke again and he'll offer plenty of value. If he hits 5 of his next 10 he'll be right back up to 33%. Just needs to find it for a few games.

Quote from: Viper on January 22, 2024, 10:15:31 AM
Shooting across high school college and pro ball is a lost art. Isn't it amazing the bad shooting form so many players have? Every now & then a guy will have an odd release, but it still works. That's quite rare, however.  Here's a question...would you rather have a shooter, or a scorer? 

Eh...the NBA 3 point percentage is about the same as its always been despite the fact that teams shoot a lot more three pointers than they have previously.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-league-wide-three-point-percentage-by-decade

Part of the "form" issue is that there is a whole body of work that suggests that there really isn't an ideal form. Sure there are fundamentals, but the results can speak for themselves in that regard.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 21, 2024, 09:35:15 PM
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but last season Joplin shot a higher percentage on guarded threes vs unguarded threes. I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile, but the same was true through the Wisconsin game this season. It's brain breaking

My theory is that when he's sped up and guarded, he goes into his more "natural" motion. Unguarded, have time to think and the mechanics get weird.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 22, 2024, 11:23:16 AM

Eh...the NBA 3 point percentage is about the same as its always been despite the fact that teams shoot a lot more three pointers than they have previously.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-league-wide-three-point-percentage-by-decade

Part of the "form" issue is that there is a whole body of work that suggests that there really isn't an ideal form. Sure there are fundamentals, but the results can speak for themselves in that regard.

And despite the fact that the NBA 3 point line is farther back than it has ever been.

I would actually say in the NBA, shooting is as good as it has ever been.

Quote from: BM1090 on January 22, 2024, 10:31:38 AM
Gold has the best DR% on the team and second best OR%. He's doing well on the glass. He needs to find his stroke again and he'll offer plenty of value. If he hits 5 of his next 10 he'll be right back up to 33%. Just needs to find it for a few games.

Why bring up data, not Scoop like.

Quote from: tower912 on January 22, 2024, 10:23:05 AM
MU had players with perfect form on their jumpers who were great shooters.  Two left, one is a top 25 alltime scorer in the NCAA, and the guy who recruited them got fired.   Oh, and Rowsey.

Rowsey's threes and the "thing" were great, but I really miss his defense the most.  :D

I'm pretty sure that Ben is not a happy camper about his 3s and will work on getting it right.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2024, 09:43:15 AM
It's a valid question. Prior to this, our shooters were pretty much all over 40% on open threes, which is why we work so hard for those looks. I truly believed that natural progression from our returning players and replacing O-Max's threes with Jop threes would lead to a better shooting team, not worse.

We are 45% of the way through the season averaging 25.9 threes per game and making 31.5% of them. To equal what we did last year, we would have to go roughly 219/570 (38.4%) in our final 22 games. Is that possible? Certainly. But the way things have gone of late it sure doesn't feel likely.

The beautiful thing (IMHO) is that we don't have to get this season's pct up to last season's percentage by hitting 38.4% the rest of the way. Last season's pct is immaterial now for this team.

If we hit 36% -- or probably even 33-35% -- the rest of the way, we'll be a formidable opponent for anybody in the nation.

The difference between world class 3 pt shooting and putrid 3 pt shooting is one more make every 10 attempts.

Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2024, 12:56:03 PM
The beautiful thing (IMHO) is that we don't have to get this season's pct up to last season's percentage by hitting 38.4% the rest of the way. Last season's pct is immaterial now for this team.

If we hit 36% -- or probably even 33-35% -- the rest of the way, we'll be a formidable opponent for anybody in the nation.

Yeah im guessing if hypothetically we did shoot 38.4% the rest of the way we lose 2 more games max to finish BE 15-5

Quote from: tower912 on January 22, 2024, 01:02:32 PM
The difference between world class 3 pt shooting and putrid 3 pt shooting is one more make every 10 attempts.

Which doesn't sound like a lot, but it's ~7.5 points per game

Quote from: tower912 on January 22, 2024, 01:02:32 PM
The difference between world class 3 pt shooting and putrid 3 pt shooting is one more make every 10 attempts.

Love these kind of sports stats. Like a .200 hitter in baseball vs a .300 hitter. Just shows the fine line separating the top tier. Or an Olympic sprinter 5 tenths back not being a real contender.

Exactly.  Crash Davis talked about that one bloop a week. 

MU gets open looks.  Keep shooting.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2024, 09:17:54 AM
He's in a funk, but the whole team is. In our past 5 games, MU is at 37/133 (27.8%). Ben is 0/12, so he's contributed to that, but the rest of the team is still just at 30.6%, so he's not alone in that regard.

Before that, he was at 16/42 on the season (38.1%). So which is accurate? The 13 game sample size or the 5 game sample size? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but the larger sample shows him to be significantly better than he's been of late.

He is still a three point threat because he's shown the ability to make those shots and teams will cover him at the arc. He hasn't been good of late, but the threat is still there.

He's 31/104 over two years, so .298.   Remove his "warm" streak of 16/42, and he's 15/62, which is .241.

Is he a decent shooter who had two, long, horrible streaks?

Or a horrible shooter, who had one above average streak?

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 22, 2024, 05:53:44 PM
He's 31/104 over two years, so .298.   Remove his "warm" streak of 16/42, and he's 15/62, which is .241.

Is he a decent shooter who had two, long, horrible streaks?

Or a horrible shooter, who had one above average streak?

Before going 0-for-12 over these last 5 games, it seemed reasonable to say:

Gold shot .300 last season and then improved to shoot .381 through the first 13 games this season. In other words, the kind of improvement that we've come to expect from players during Shaka's time here.

I certainly can see why these last 5 games look like a step back for Gold. Maybe he'll struggle to shoot 25% the rest of the season. Or maybe the coaches will come up with some minor adjustment that will get him back on track.

There was a play in the StJ game when Gold was near the top of the key and Soriano was afraid to fully leave him, and it let Stevie (I think) get to the hoop. So yes, Gold apparently is still a "threat" on some scouting reports, including Pitino's. If he keeps going 0-fer, obviously that'll change and opponents will dare him to shoot the way they dared Sean and still dare Stevie.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 22, 2024, 05:53:44 PM
He's 31/104 over two years, so .298.   Remove his "warm" streak of 16/42, and he's 15/62, which is .241.

Is he a decent shooter who had two, long, horrible streaks?

Or a horrible shooter, who had one above average streak?

He started his career 3/17. Freshman adapting to a new country, sporadic minutes, not a big surprise.

Once conference play started, he went 12/33 (36.4%) through 25 games and started this year 16/42 (38.1%) through 13 games. That's 37.3% as a shooter for a 38-game stretch that makes up over 70% of his career.

So which is the real Gold, the terrible 11 game start and 5 game stretch currently where he shot 3/29, or the 38 game sample size that makes up over 70% of his career? He might be a bit streaky, but he's a much, much better shooter than he's shown of late.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 22, 2024, 05:53:44 PM
He's 31/104 over two years, so .298.   Remove his "warm" streak of 16/42, and he's 15/62, which is .241.

Is he a decent shooter who had two, long, horrible streaks?

Or a horrible shooter, who had one above average streak?

He's 31/104 over 2 years, so .298. Full stop. That's who he is. Sure he's been better and worse than that at times, but that's who he is.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 23, 2024, 05:26:41 PM
He's 31/104 over 2 years, so .298. Full stop. That's who he is. Sure he's been better and worse than that at times, but that's who he is.

They are who we thought they were!

If he can shoot 38% or better from 3/1 4/8 on over 20-25 attempts it won't matter what he's been over 2 years.

I'll agree though, that it would seem we would have to catch lightning in a bottle for that to happen.

You are what you repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.

Ben needs a game where we are winning by a lot, then he could launch his threes with no pressure and build some confidence in his shot. 

Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on January 22, 2024, 05:01:33 PM

Love these kind of sports stats. Like a .200 hitter in baseball vs a .300 hitter. Just shows the fine line separating the top tier.

Yeah, doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between a guy on the Mendoza line probably headed to the minors and a potential Hall of Famer.

Quote from: DoctorV on January 23, 2024, 05:42:38 PM

You are what you repeatedly do.

What did Gold repeatedly do during the 38-game stretch brew talked about?

He's had a 5-game slump and now you want him to lose minutes to a freshman who dunks during garbage time?

Wut?

No, of course I don't want him to lose minutes to big Al.
If anything, they would play together when the game is out of hand tomorrow.

I don't think he should lose minutes because at the moment he's doing other things well.
His shot looks brutal though, and although I would argue that others should keep on shooting I'd probably say it's a good time for him to try to use some of his other abilities to get going a bit offensively, namely hitting the glass and trying to use a bit more of his deceptive athletic ability.

He's slow, or appears and plays slow, so it comes as a big surprise to the opposition when he actually shows off some of that athletic ability.
He should try doing it some more to get going and I think that might in turn help his confidence and outside shot.

Quote from: DoctorV on January 23, 2024, 10:33:40 PM
Wut?

No, of course I don't want him to lose minutes to big Al.

Apologies. I obviously confused you with one or more different Scoopers who were calling for Amadou to get some of Gold's playing time.

Quote from: DoctorV on January 23, 2024, 10:33:40 PM

His shot looks brutal though, and although I would argue that others should keep on shooting I'd probably say it's a good time for him to try to use some of his other abilities to get going a bit offensively, namely hitting the glass and trying to use a bit more of his deceptive athletic ability.

I'm not at Marquette's practices, nor in Shaka's meetings with individual players, so this is only a guess ... but I'd think he's doing what Shaka wants him to do. If he weren't, Shaka would tell him to play a different way, no?

Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2024, 04:11:48 PM
What's odd is that Gold's percentage had been improving gradually this season. After he made 3 against Georgetown, he was up to a very respectable - good even - .381. Several Scoopers observed that his shot looked like it had a little more arc than early in the season.

But starting with the 12/30 game vs Creighton, he is 0-for-12, and the shot looks pancake-flat again.

We sure could use a few 3s from Ben going forward.

Why do I mentally not count any threes made by MU against GT or DePaul.

Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2024, 10:01:40 PM
What did Gold repeatedly do during the 38-game stretch brew talked about?

He's had a 5-game slump and now you want him to lose minutes to a freshman who dunks during garbage time?

I feel like he has already lost minutes in some games due to quick fouls, which then adds pressure to hit the one or two attempts per game rather than 4-5 he was getting earlier. Not sure if the stats back that up and don't have time to check right now, but has seemed that way to me.

Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2024, 10:38:29 PM
Apologies. I obviously confused you with one or more different Scoopers who were calling for Amadou to get some of Gold's playing time.

I'm not at Marquette's practices, nor in Shaka's meetings with individual players, so this is only a guess ... but I'd think he's doing what Shaka wants him to do. If he weren't, Shaka would tell him to play a different way, no?

...if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do, Shaka is an idiot. I don't think Shaka is an idiot. Rather, I'm thinking Gold is the only option.

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 01:01:09 PM
...if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do, Shaka is an idiot. I don't think Shaka is an idiot. Rather, I'm thinking Gold is the only option.

Gold was doing exactly this when everyone was healthy, too. And most of last season, as well. So I guess Shaka is an idiot.

Quote from: Coleman on January 22, 2024, 11:36:57 AM
And despite the fact that the NBA 3 point line is farther back than it has ever been.

I would actually say in the NBA, shooting is as good as it has ever been.

I've thought this for a while now.  Players today have more basketball skills than ever in terms of shooting, ball handling, etc.  But they do not know how to play the team game like they used to.  Of course this is in general.  That's why I like Oso, Kolek and Kam so much.  They play such an old school fun style of basketball.  Great passing leading to layups and dunks is by far my favorite thing to watch on the basketball court.  I'm going to miss watching those guys when they're gone.

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 01:23:28 PM
Gold was doing exactly this when everyone was healthy, too. And most of last season, as well. So I guess Shaka is an idiot.

your opinion of Shaka. Not mine.

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 01:01:09 PM
...if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do, Shaka is an idiot. I don't think Shaka is an idiot. Rather, I'm thinking Gold is the only option.

LOL seriously, Shaka has sat TK for not doing what Shaka wanted. He would sit Gold even if he "is the only option". Gold is the new Sean, the new Stevie and the new TKo (got so much hate at the beginning it was pathetic). He is obviously playing like Shaka wants, Shaka is an idiot per Viper.

I remain a big believer in Gold having a lot of upside but I cannot argue that he has been a disappointment for the most part this season. Ben has not had the jump in quality of play that I thought he would have this season and that is pretty obvious. That being said, I hope he continues to get minutes and improves defense, rebounding and shooting. I still believe there are big days ahead for Gold and hope they happen.

Quote from: Goose on January 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PM
I remain a big believer in Gold having a lot of upside but I cannot argue that he has been a disappointment for the most part this season. Ben has not had the jump in quality of play that I thought he would have this season and that is pretty obvious. That being said, I hope he continues to get minutes and improves defense, rebounding and shooting. I still believe there are big days ahead for Gold and hope they happen.

His off-season injury almost has certainly impacted his development towards impacting this season more than some like myself anticipated. 

Quote from: Goose on January 24, 2024, 02:26:10 PM
I remain a big believer in Gold having a lot of upside but I cannot argue that he has been a disappointment for the most part this season. Ben has not had the jump in quality of play that I thought he would have this season and that is pretty obvious. That being said, I hope he continues to get minutes and improves defense, rebounding and shooting. I still believe there are big days ahead for Gold and hope they happen.

He started practice late, maybe a month? So he is behind where he needs to be. At this level of competition it makes a world of difference.

Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 02:19:59 PM
LOL seriously, Shaka has sat TK for not doing what Shaka wanted. He would sit Gold even if he "is the only option". Gold is the new Sean, the new Stevie and the new TKo (got so much hate at the beginning it was pathetic). He is obviously playing like Shaka wants, Shaka is an idiot per Viper.

really? I said Shaka is an idiot? Reread. I explicitly state Shaka is NOT an idiot. WTH, man?

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 05:46:01 PM
really? I said Shaka is an idiot? Reread. I explicitly state Shaka is NOT an idiot. WTH, man?

Well, you said Shaka is an idiot if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do.

Do you think Gold is going rogue?

Shaka: "Ben, do this."

Gold: "No way, you numpty!"

Shaka: "OK, that's cool. Do what you want."

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 05:46:01 PM
really? I said Shaka is an idiot? Reread. I explicitly state Shaka is NOT an idiot. WTH, man?

You did a theorem, and you doubled down on theory, therefore...but I wouldn't think you would understand how it works, very sad.

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 05:58:17 PM
Well, you said Shaka is an idiot if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do.

Do you think Gold is going rogue?

Shaka: "Ben, do this."

Gold: "No way, you numpty!"

Shaka: "OK, that's cool. Do what you want."

Lol you did theorem for dummies

Ben was offered a scholarship because Smart had one to give. He was 6-11 and was obviously a project. Played some minutes as a freshman and more minutes this year. He can't guard small forwards or the four or the five. He tries hard to keep up on defense. He's trying real hard to rebound.

He can't play offense one on one but he sometimes gets an open drive to the basket. Fans enjoyed seeing him hit the three. It's human nature to wish the best for him because he's wearing the uniform. He's never going to be Larry Bird or Kelly Tripuka. He's a role player. I don't mean to disparage him nor will I sugarcoat his talents. I hope he works hard to develop in the practices to became a better player. Is he a three point shooter? No one should ever expect him to be a sharpshooter. Not going to happen.  Don't mistake him for a Hauser. Especially Sam.

Quote from: oilcan on January 24, 2024, 07:11:57 PM
Ben was offered a scholarship because Smart had one to give. He was 6-11 and was obviously a project. Played some minutes as a freshman and more minutes this year. He can't guard small forwards or the four or the five. He tries hard to keep up on defense. He's trying real hard to rebound.

He can't play offense one on one but he sometimes gets an open drive to the basket. Fans enjoyed seeing him hit the three. It's human nature to wish the best for him because he's wearing the uniform. He's never going to be Larry Bird or Kelly Tripuka. He's a role player. I don't mean to disparage him nor will I sugarcoat his talents. I hope he works hard to develop in the practices to became a better player. Is he a three point shooter? No one should ever expect him to be a sharpshooter. Not going to happen.  Don't mistake him for a Hauser. Especially Sam.

I think you might be AI and not a rational person....

Would I rather have a shooter or a scorer? Good question. I'd go with the shooter. If a player is aggressive enough he will find a way to score. Give me Ray Allen any day.

Well 81 posts ago I started this mess, I just hope if he becomes our center next year he can put the ball in when he's under the basket!

S
W
OO
S
H

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 05:58:17 PM
Well, you said Shaka is an idiot if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do.

Do you think Gold is going rogue?

Shaka: "Ben, do this."

Gold: "No way, you numpty!"

Shaka: "OK, that's cool. Do what you want."

you really attend MU? You seem more-so a Notre Dame guy.

Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 06:11:20 PM
You did a theorem, and you doubled down on theory, therefore...but I wouldn't think you would understand how it works, very sad.

awesome 😂

We need a defensive surge - 3-4 minutes could sap their spirit.

I think Ben read this thread before the game tonight.

Š
Ŵ
Œ
A
Ħ

Next year he will be the center for this team. There are 3 or 4 very fine post players in the Big East this year. Just like last year.  Most of them will be gone next year but all the teams have guys waiting for the opportunity.  Ben needs to work his butt off and get in better shape. Weight lifting, muscle strength, sprint running. The team will need him. And they will only regress if players like Ben cannot play with more intensity and determination. The opportunity is there for him. He will have to work for it. I don't know what he believes he can do or if he aspires for greatness. I just know that he is in the perfect place. The coaches and his teammates will push him until he meets the extent of his ability. Develop an in the paint game and push butt.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 24, 2024, 09:40:10 PM
I think Ben read this thread before the game tonight.

Scoop often forces action.  Wojo and stubblefield still have nightmares about our banter.

So what, he's 6-10 now against the bottom scum and 0-11 against any team with a pulse? Only makes the easy 3s.

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 09:22:33 PM
awesome 😂

Still lost

Quote from: oilcan on January 24, 2024, 09:42:00 PM
Next year he will be the center for this team. There are 3 or 4 very fine post players in the Big East this year. Just like last year.  Most of them will be gone next year but all the teams have guys waiting for the opportunity.  Ben needs to work his butt off and get in better shape. Weight lifting, muscle strength, sprint running. The team will need him. And they will only regress if players like Ben cannot play with more intensity and determination. The opportunity is there for him. He will have to work for it. I don't know what he believes he can do or if he aspires for greatness. I just know that he is in the perfect place. The coaches and his teammates will push him until he meets the extent of his ability. Develop an in the paint game and push butt.

Why post short stories?

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 09:20:47 PM
you really attend MU? You seem more-so a Notre Dame guy.

Once again, the rogue Kiwi went against the idiot Shaka to take a bunch of 3s today.

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:36:34 PM
Once again, the rogue Kiwi went against the idiot Shaka to take a bunch of 3s today.

Ben's 3's tonight were actually at pretty important moments, all occurring when DePaul had been on runs and cut the deficit down to single digits if I recall correctly.

I like Ben's potential as a player, and it was great to see him knock down the 3's tonight.  Great coaching by Shaka to continue to encourage him to shoot the 3's and see Ben through this tough stretch.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 24, 2024, 10:40:00 PM
Ben's 3's tonight were actually at pretty important moments, all occurring when DePaul had been on runs and cut the deficit down to single digits if I recall correctly.

I like Ben's potential as a player, and it was great to see him knock down the 3's tonight.  Great coaching by Shaka to continue to encourage him to shoot the 3's and see Ben through this tough stretch.

Agree.

It was like coming out of halftime with a set play for a Jop 3 vs. St. John's. Shooters gotta shoot. You can't tell them they can't shoot or you'll lose them, and we've got a lot to accomplish as a team this season.

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:41:56 PM
Agree.

It was like coming out of halftime with a set play for a Jop 3 vs. St. John's. Shooters gotta shoot. You can't tell them they can't shoot or you'll lose them, and we've got a lot to accomplish as a team this season.

Disagree, Shaka is an idiot!

Quote from: Newsdreams on January 24, 2024, 10:43:28 PM
Disagree, Shaka is an idiot!

We've had some fun at Viper's expense but he's a passionate MU fan who just wants the best and who happened to have a bad take there. Everyone's had those ... except you and me, of course!

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:46:52 PM
We've had some fun at Viper's expense but he's a passionate MU fan who just wants the best and who happened to have a bad take there. Everyone's had those ... except you and me, of course!

Stop it, let's have hate and violence rule. The American way!

Ben needed this game.   Maybe it can get his confidence up. 

From a guy who was at the game.

Glad he made them, but Ben's shot still looks broke.

No arc, on a rope. Better when he has to shoot than when he's open to shoot, it seems, but still not a shot you want unless you are begging for someone that's open to make one.

He will be open to make one, often. So, hopefully he keeps working on a consistent, repetitive, good looking stroke from 3 cause despite 3 going in tonight ain't it

Meanwhile, Kam is setting the record for shots going in and out.  It's like the smallest of adjustment will have them falling again.

Quote from: DoctorV on January 24, 2024, 11:33:00 PM
From a guy who was at the game.

Glad he made them, but Ben's shot still looks broke.

No arc, on a rope. Better when he has to shoot than when he's open to shoot, it seems, but still not a shot you want unless you are begging for someone that's open to make one.

He will be open to make one, often. So, hopefully he keeps working on a consistent, repetitive, good looking stroke from 3 cause despite 3 going in tonight ain't it

The shots were totally fine last night.  They aren't moonballs, but they aren't some line drive.

Quote from: wadesworld on January 25, 2024, 10:16:19 AM
The shots were totally fine last night.  They aren't moonballs, but they aren't some line drive.

Yeah I thought his mechanics looked fine. Biggest change was he wasn't fading away when he shot 'em. So many front rim misses for him when he does that.

I am somewhat confused on all of the conversation on the arc of Gold's shots. Last year some on here commented on Kam having too big of an arc and now Ben having a flat arc. I am too lazy to dig into my memory, but I definitely remember taller guys that were good shooters having a flatter arc. There is no doubt in my mind that ben Gold can shoot the ball and I really am not that concerned about his lack of arc. My guess is Gold gets a ton of shots in on and daily basis and gets coaching on his shot as well.

Quote from: MU82 on January 24, 2024, 10:46:52 PM
We've had some fun at Viper's expense but he's a passionate MU fan who just wants the best and who happened to have a bad take there. Everyone's had those ... except you and me, of course!

bad take? Ok, I'll respectfully agree to disagree...on my post and on Ben rim bender Gold. In Viper's perfect world, I'd get 30 minutes with Ben, and I'd have him watch a Kevin Garnett highlight video. Study KG's moves on the blocks. Footwork. Getting to his spot rather than float behind the line for fade back 3's. Drawing contact. Forcing the D to guard him. Gold went 3-6, all from 3. Great! But, a 6'11" guy with no post game? Maybe it will develop. I realize he's a sophomore not a senior. But, imo we're in trouble at that position if Ben is our starting center next season w/o some semblance of a low post game. But, per News, I'm lost, so WTH. Thx for the vine.

Quote from: Viper on January 25, 2024, 10:38:20 AM
bad take? Ok, I'll respectfully agree to disagree...on my post and on Ben rim bender Gold. In Viper's perfect world, I'd get 30 minutes with Ben, and I'd have him watch a Kevin Garnett highlight video. Study KG's moves on the blocks. Footwork. Getting to his spot rather than float behind the line for fade back 3's. Drawing contact. Forcing the D to guard him. Gold went 3-6, all from 3. Great! But, a 6'11" guy with no post game? Maybe it will develop. I realize he's a sophomore not a senior. But, imo we're in trouble at that position if Ben is our starting center next season w/o some semblance of a low post game. But, per News, I'm lost, so WTH. Thx for the vine.

We actually agree that it would be great if Ben learned to have more variety to his game and was able to become our Kevin Garnett. I mean, who wouldn't want us to have a Kevin Garnett clone?

Where we disagree is that you seem to think Shaka isn't in charge of Ben's role.

Gold took 6 wide-open 3s last night. Shaka 100% wants him to take those. Gold was involved in numerous pick-and-pops with his teammates last night. That is his role in the Shaka/Nevada offense.

You said:

Quote from: Viper on January 24, 2024, 01:01:09 PM
...if Gold is doing what Shaka wants him to do, Shaka is an idiot.

And we have 1 1/2 seasons of evidence that Gold is doing EXACTLY what Shaka wants him to do.

It's been Gold's role for 1 1/2 seasons, and I'd bet it will continue to be Gold's role for the rest of this season -- especially (but not only) when he and Oso are on the court together. Would you bet otherwise?

Quote from: Goose on January 25, 2024, 10:27:39 AM
I am somewhat confused on all of the conversation on the arc of Gold's shots. Last year some on here commented on Kam having too big of an arc and now Ben having a flat arc. I am too lazy to dig into my memory, but I definitely remember taller guys that were good shooters having a flatter arc. There is no doubt in my mind that ben Gold can shoot the ball and I really am not that concerned about his lack of arc. My guess is Gold gets a ton of shots in on and daily basis and gets coaching on his shot as well.

His release point has been inconsistent. Besides squaring up and not fading (great last night), you can almost tell if it's in or not by just watching the release. That also has improved. He'll be good going forward IMO.

Quote from: MU82 on January 25, 2024, 10:46:42 AM
We actually agree that it would be great if Ben learned to have more variety to his game and was able to become our Kevin Garnett. I mean, who wouldn't want us to have a Kevin Garnett clone?

Where we disagree is that you seem to think Shaka isn't in charge of Ben's role.

Gold took 6 wide-open 3s last night. Shaka 100% wants him to take those. Gold was involved in numerous pick-and-pops with his teammates last night. That is his role in the Shaka/Nevada offense.

You said:

And we have 1 1/2 seasons of evidence that Gold is doing EXACTLY what Shaka wants him to do.

It's been Gold's role for 1 1/2 seasons, and I'd bet it will continue to be Gold's role for the rest of this season -- especially (but not only) when he and Oso are on the court together. Would you bet otherwise?

firing 3's, ok, ok. But I'm not convinced Shaka isn't looking for some post action, at least when Oso is out for a breather.

Then watch where he sets up.   Does he set up in the post?  If so, then that is where Shaka wants him.   If he sets the high screen and flares to the 3 pt line, that is where Shaka wants him.   Watch the game.  Assume the players are going where coached.  If they don't, it will be obvious.

I did love Shaka's quote on Ben Gold. I get why many on here are down on him, but I think he will prove a lot of doubters wrong before he hangs up his college jersey. The thing about Gold that first caught my eye was against ND last year when he caught a pass outside the three and took to the basket for a big dunk. The kid knows the game, imo, and is playing a role Shaka wants him to play.

Quote from: Goose on January 25, 2024, 11:20:21 AM
I did love Shaka's quote on Ben Gold. I get why many on here are down on him, but I think he will prove a lot of doubters wrong before he hangs up his college jersey. The thing about Gold that first caught my eye was against ND last year when he caught a pass outside the three and took to the basket for a big dunk. The kid knows the game, imo, and is playing a role Shaka wants him to play.

Unfortunately, I think he lateral quickness is lacking.  The game should slow down for him sooner rather than later.

Also, playing Ben alongside Joplin seems to be a recipe for disaster defensively.  I do like his offensive game, and his willingness to shoot, but I am hoping for more of the drive play you mentioned. 

We need an aircraft carrier down low.

Ben last night on defense forced the offensive player (who inevitably was quicker) right into a waiting help defender (usually Oso) and it worked really well.  He does need to work on his lateral quickness and he may never get it but he is a good positional defender, at least he was last night.  And those threes were big.

It is my contention that DePaul played really well for their squad.  A couple more things go wrong (DePaul making a few more guarded threes) or a few more empty possessions by MU and this could have been a much closer game. 

I'll take the win any day of the week and look for  DePaul to get their win first BE win against someone else.  The new coach will be good for them.

Hards

I think Ben's D weakness are very obvious at some points during the game and that is when he is chasing a much smaller guy 20+ feet from the basket. Like the young guys being compared to the top players, it is unfair to Ben to some degree because Oso is beyond good at defending all five positions.

Quote from: Goose on January 25, 2024, 11:40:23 AM
Hards

I think Ben's D weakness are very obvious at some points during the game and that is when he is chasing a much smaller guy 20+ feet from the basket. Like the young guys being compared to the top players, it is unfair to Ben to some degree because Oso is beyond good at defending all five positions.

That's the thing about Oso, is he sees everything that is going on around him and knows where to be.  He rarely gets beat, though I think 25 from DePaul slipped him last night.  That young man looks a lot like a younger version of Oso.  Jeremiah Oden.  I expect big things from him in the future for DePaul.

Ben's footspeed and lateral quickness is fine.  Better than most 6'10 players.  Quit comparing him to Oso the unicorn.   Think about Theo, Luke, Joey, Henry, Otule, Merritt.   Start thinking about where he came from, and the interruptions to his development.  COVID overseas leading to a lack of game play.   Shin splints  over the summer costing two months.   
   He is in his second year of competing every day against high level opponents.   And here we are.    If you can't see him improving, then I don't know what to tell you.   Other than to echo what Shaka said in his presser last night.   And hopefully he sticks around two more years.

Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 11:45:01 AM
Ben's footspeed and lateral quickness is fine.  Better than most 6'10 players.  Quit comparing him to Oso the unicorn.   Think about Theo, Luke, Joey, Henry, Otule, Merritt.   Start thinking about where he came from, and the interruptions to his development.  COVID overseas leading to a lack of game play.   Shin splints  over the summer costing two months.   
   He is in his second year of competing every day against high level opponents.   And here we are.    If you can't see him improving, then I don't know what to tell you.   Other than to echo what Shaka said in his presser last night.   And hopefully he sticks around two more years.

Had great seats last night and was impressed with Golds D.  He has reallly improved from even the start of this season.

Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 11:45:01 AM
Ben's footspeed and lateral quickness is fine.  Better than most 6'10 players.  Quit comparing him to Oso the unicorn.   Think about Theo, Luke, Joey, Henry, Otule, Merritt.   Start thinking about where he came from, and the interruptions to his development.  COVID overseas leading to a lack of game play.   Shin splints  over the summer costing two months.   
   He is in his second year of competing every day against high level opponents.   And here we are.    If you can't see him improving, then I don't know what to tell you.   Other than to echo what Shaka said in his presser last night.   And hopefully he sticks around two more years.

Yep

Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 25, 2024, 11:47:36 AM
Had great seats last night and was impressed with Golds D.  He has reallly improved from even the start of this season.

Agree

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 25, 2024, 11:44:27 AM
That's the thing about Oso, is he sees everything that is going on around him and knows where to be.  He rarely gets beat, though I think 25 from DePaul slipped him last night.  That young man looks a lot like a younger version of Oso.  Jeremiah Oden.  I expect big things from him in the future for DePaul.

Ummmmm they are both in their 4th year of college basketball. And considering Oso is young for his year

Its likely Oden is older in age as well.

Quote from: Viper on January 25, 2024, 11:00:18 AM
firing 3's, ok, ok. But I'm not convinced Shaka isn't looking for some post action, at least when Oso is out for a breather.

I'll give you the last word. Have a good one.

Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 11:45:01 AM
Ben's footspeed and lateral quickness is fine.  Better than most 6'10 players.  Quit comparing him to Oso the unicorn.   Think about Theo, Luke, Joey, Henry, Otule, Merritt.   Start thinking about where he came from, and the interruptions to his development.  COVID overseas leading to a lack of game play.   Shin splints  over the summer costing two months.   
   He is in his second year of competing every day against high level opponents.   And here we are.    If you can't see him improving, then I don't know what to tell you.   Other than to echo what Shaka said in his presser last night.   And hopefully he sticks around two more years.

Well said, tower.

Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 11:14:48 AM
Then watch where he sets up.   Does he set up in the post?  If so, then that is where Shaka wants him.   If he sets the high screen and flares to the 3 pt line, that is where Shaka wants him.   Watch the game.  Assume the players are going where coached.  If they don't, it will be obvious.

You're arguing with someone that don't know ball

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 25, 2024, 12:07:13 PM
Ummmmm they are both in their 4th year of college basketball. And considering Oso is young for his year

Its likely Oden is older in age as well.

LOL I saw F next to his name and assumed it was Freshman... not Forward.

What a maroon.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 25, 2024, 12:34:44 PM
LOL I saw F next to his name and assumed it was Freshman... not Forward.

What a maroon.

Those are delicious cookies.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 25, 2024, 12:34:44 PM
LOL I saw F next to his name and assumed it was Freshman... not Forward.

What a maroon.

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 25, 2024, 12:42:27 PM
Those are delicious cookies.

It's macarooni that is a cookie, silly.

Quote from: tower912 on January 25, 2024, 11:14:48 AM
Then watch where he sets up.   Does he set up in the post?  If so, then that is where Shaka wants him.   If he sets the high screen and flares to the 3 pt line, that is where Shaka wants him.   Watch the game.  Assume the players are going where coached.  If they don't, it will be obvious.

I played ball, but I don't know ball. So, question. In your assessment, why does Shaka want a 6'11" guy that is not showing to be a very consistent 3pt shooter, flaring to the 3pt line? An attempt at drawing the D out? Butler had that figured out, but that was one game where MU was historically cold from outside. Any other reason?

Quote from: Viper on January 25, 2024, 03:18:20 PM
I played ball, but I don't know ball. So, question. In your assessment, why does Shaka want a 6'11" guy that is not showing to be a very consistent 3pt shooter, flaring to the 3pt line? An attempt at drawing the D out? Butler had that figured out, but that was one game where MU was historically cold from outside. Any other reason?

Basically.

Shakas offense is all about open 3s and efficient shots at the rim.

Ben(even if the makes are not consistent) is always getting open looks. And by him being out there its opening up the paint for Oso and our guards who are all elite at the rim.

Quote from: Viper on January 25, 2024, 03:18:20 PM
I played ball, but I don't know ball. So, question. In your assessment, why does Shaka want a 6'11" guy that is not showing to be a very consistent 3pt shooter, flaring to the 3pt line? An attempt at drawing the D out? Butler had that figured out, but that was one game where MU was historically cold from outside. Any other reason?

Keeping the guard and the big in pretty constant motion makes life really hard on the defense. Look at what TK and Oso can do and that's all inside of 12 feet. Ben even being a threat to shoot drags a defender out to the perimeter or forces a switch.

PT just shared this clip- https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1750630954886951139

The pick and pop puts DePaul in rotation, and even though the look didn't come from it, the guy who was guarding Ben couldn't drop to the paint and muck it up for Oso.

Oso doesn't post up in the traditional sense, either.   Not what MU runs.   MU optimizes Oso's abilities with pick and rolls as well as allowing Oso to handle the ball and create.   MU utilizes Ben with pick and pop action.   There have been glimpses of Ben eventually being to create off the dribble from the perimeter, perhaps even with passes to others, like his alley oop to Amadou.
   Ben plays like an international big.  Perhaps, before he graduates, he will develop a rudimentary post game, perhaps with a push shot from in the paint or a left handed jump hook.  Oso didn't have those two years ago.  It is too soon to write Ben off.
   With MU playing what is essentially a 5 out motion set, there are many possibilities for a skilled 6'10 player with 3 pt range.

Like Ben playing with Oso, as he is rebounding better on the D side, plays better D than Joplin.  Ben needs to figure out how to improve his offensive game, very limited other then jacking up 3's.

At some point, they are gonna run action where Ben rolls to the hoop and the defense is gonna be like WTF?

That would be fun.

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 25, 2024, 05:24:06 PM
At some point, they are gonna run action where Ben rolls to the hoop and the defense is gonna be like WTF?

time is now, hey

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 25, 2024, 05:24:06 PM
At some point, they are gonna run action where Ben rolls to the hoop and the defense is gonna be like WTF?

I really think this will happen... he has the skill for it,  then try to guard him... can shoot the three, can drive and slam.    Needs a post up game and then. Bam!

Had an amazing euro step against Nova.    How quickly they forget.   

I don't think anyone is forgetting.  I think they see it too infrequently. Hopefully he plays his role to the best of his ability and Shaka starts to trust him more and more.  I agree with you and others that he is going to be pretty damn good by the time his MU career is over. 

Quote from: MUfan12 on January 25, 2024, 03:25:40 PM
Keeping the guard and the big in pretty constant motion makes life really hard on the defense. Look at what TK and Oso can do and that's all inside of 12 feet. Ben even being a threat to shoot drags a defender out to the perimeter or forces a switch.

PT just shared this clip- https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1750630954886951139

The pick and pop puts DePaul in rotation, and even though the look didn't come from it, the guy who was guarding Ben couldn't drop to the paint and muck it up for Oso.

Yep. And I can remember at least 2 instances in the StJ game where we had an open path to the hoop because Soriano had to pay attention to Gold.

Pitino respects Gold more than some Scoopers do.

Ben is up to 31.7% on 3 attempts per game. That is just fine for a sophomore backup big.

Quote from: BM1090 on January 26, 2024, 03:53:49 PM
Ben is up to 31.7% on 3 attempts per game. That is just fine for a sophomore backup big.

Yes that is just fine - the only issue I have with the 3pt shooting is the consistency. Last year we were much more consistent. I do not remember massive swings in 3pt percentage from game to game like we have seen this year. 

We were just worse. .353 v. .325 this year. We have had a couple stinkers that drove down the average - at PC and home v. Butler.

Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 26, 2024, 04:07:28 PM
We were just worse. .353 v. .325 this year. We have had a couple stinkers that drove down the average - at PC and home v. Butler.

Thanks! I was looking for what we shot last year. Yes, we are worse, but hoping we can shoot 35% going forward.

Butler 5/31 16%
Texas 14/30 47%

Quote from: We R Final Four on January 26, 2024, 04:17:38 PM
Butler 5/31 16%
Texas 14/30 47%

Combined 19/61 31%  or just marginally under the season average.

Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2024, 04:19:56 PM
Combined 19/61 31%  or just marginally under the season average.

Yes....the average.

And last year we hit 50% against Vermont. I don't much difference in terms of variation - we're just worse.

Quote from: MUbiz on January 26, 2024, 04:02:40 PM
Yes that is just fine - the only issue I have with the 3pt shooting is the consistency. Last year we were much more consistent. I do not remember massive swings in 3pt percentage from game to game like we have seen this year.

Confirming Biz' position of massive swings in 3 pt% this season, not season 3 pt average compared to last season.

Huh

Anyone that gave up on Ben did so very prematurely. I get being disappointed or frustrated, but he has a very ceiling, imo. MU needs him to continue to gain confidence and I think he plays a big role the rest of the way.

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 02:39:01 PM
Anyone that gave up on Ben did so very prematurely. I get being disappointed or frustrated, but he has a very ceiling, imo. MU needs him to continue to gain confidence and I think he plays a big role the rest of the way.

Ben has looked great the past few games.  I trust Shaka on his evaluation.  Will be a massive piece to the puzzle as an upperclassmen.

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 02:39:01 PM
Anyone that gave up on Ben did so very prematurely. I get being disappointed or frustrated, but he has a very ceiling, imo. MU needs him to continue to gain confidence and I think he plays a big role the rest of the way.

Goosey-

Don't mistake that tough love for giving up.

The newer generations love to get after someone in a reverse jinx mindset.

Before the game today I thought to myself that Benny may be the biggest key to Marquettes success this March.
Why?
Because when push comes to shove and elimination is in play with a deficit and under 10 left, Benny will play and Benny will get a look or two from 3.

What he does with those could be the season, and I'm much more confident he will sink them now.

Jop and Benny hitting 3s, and Jop and Benny playing that tough ass defense is exactly what this team needs to take that Final Four step.

Let's Go!!

Doctor

I do think there might have been more than tough love out there and that is fine by me. I think your comments are spot on.

IMO, Gold seems to have Kolek type attitude and I like that a lot. I think he would not be afraid to mix it up if needed and all he needs is continue to gain confidence.

I think there will be a lot of Ben Gold fans before he is done. Who knows, he might just be the next NBA player from MU a year from now.

Yeah, "tough love" is pretty generous term for what some Scoopers were saying.

The notion that Gold was going against Shaka's wishes by continuing to shoot 3s - and/or that Shaka was an idiot for letting Gold continue to shoot 3s - that was something.

Yea perhaps.
He's a different type of player, the pace of play and style is much more methodical than typical college American basketball.

I'm usually hard on those that I think are needed for Marquette to take the next step.

Ben and Jop fit thst mold, OMax last year.
I'm still bummed OMax didn't dominate on the glass and inside more for his skill set, could've got Marquette to the S16 and beyond

Quote from: oilcan on January 24, 2024, 07:11:57 PM
Ben was offered a scholarship because Smart had one to give. He was 6-11 and was obviously a project. Played some minutes as a freshman and more minutes this year. He can't guard small forwards or the four or the five. He tries hard to keep up on defense. He's trying real hard to rebound.

He can't play offense one on one but he sometimes gets an open drive to the basket. Fans enjoyed seeing him hit the three. It's human nature to wish the best for him because he's wearing the uniform. He's never going to be Larry Bird or Kelly Tripuka. He's a role player. I don't mean to disparage him nor will I sugarcoat his talents. I hope he works hard to develop in the practices to became a better player. Is he a three point shooter? No one should ever expect him to be a sharpshooter. Not going to happen.  Don't mistake him for a Hauser. Especially Sam.

No one will ever be that effin ugly again.

ND sucks

Quote from: real chili 83 on January 27, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
No one will ever be that effin ugly again.

ND sucks

Spot on Real, they're dung

It's clear that shortly after this thread discovered Gold's 3 point shooting woes, Ben and the coaching staff got to work, reading the thread and implementing Scoop's recommendations.

Let's do Joplin next!

https://x.com/markstrot/status/1751343327440494688?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q

Shaka better not read Scoop

Ben has a very high ceiling. 

Ben Ponce Gold. Stepped up in the starter's role and played his best game. He was awesome today.

Dr. B

I always appreciate and like your insight on the team and the program and wanted to get your take if this is fools gold or a real contender.

Obviously I used that term freely a handful of years ago and you mentioned it over the past month and want to hear your thoughts. Do they guys have it what it takes or are you skeptical?

I do realize that there has been what feels like three seasons already, good play , bad play and good play,  but can you judge yet?

Quote from: real chili 83 on January 27, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
No one will ever be that effin ugly again.

ND sucks

except Larry Bird

Goose,

I'd like others insight as well but for me it's a two part question.

1) There does not seem to be a dominant team in the NCAA that can just run over teams like UConn did last year.  So that is in MUs and many other teams favor.

2) Based on MUs talent and experience they definitely have the ability to make a run especially given point number 1.

They make threes at a good clip, they can beat anyone in the country.

Should be a fun ride. 

(https://images2.imgbox.com/f3/fc/dZblDYwY_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/dZblDYwY)

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 27, 2024, 06:45:39 PM
Goose,

I'd like others insight as well but for me it's a two part question.

1) There does not seem to be a dominant team in the NCAA that can just run over teams like UConn did last year.  So that is in MUs and many other teams favor.

2) Based on MUs talent and experience they definitely have the ability to make a run especially given point number 1.

They make threes at a good clip, they can beat anyone in the country.

Should be a fun ride.

I think Purdue and Houston can run over teams in March.  Also think people are sleeping on UNC.  They've sort of gotten lost somehow.  ACC won't do them any favors as far as good/great wins but they've got some dudes and some experienced dudes at that

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 06:19:09 PM
Dr. B

I always appreciate and like your insight on the team and the program and wanted to get your take if this is fools gold or a real contender.

Obviously I used that term freely a handful of years ago and you mentioned it over the past month and want to hear your thoughts. Do they guys have it what it takes or are you skeptical?

I do realize that there has been what feels like three seasons already, good play , bad play and good play,  but can you judge yet?

You want my take on Ben or the team?

Dr. B

The team, but thoughts on Gold would be appreciated as well.

Rico

I agree on the three teams you mentioned, curious on your thoughts on the following:

1. How many games does UW win in 7 game series against Purdue on a neutral court?
2. How many games does Auburn win in 7 game series against Houston or UNC on a neutral court?

I picked UW and Auburn from a hat, can pick any top 15 team you want into that question.

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 07:21:54 PM
Rico

I agree on the three teams you mentioned, curious on your thoughts on the following:

1. How many games does UW win in 7 game series against Purdue on a neutral court?
2. How many games does Auburn win in 7 game series against Houston or UNC on a neutral court?

I picked UW and Auburn from a hat, can pick any top 15 team you want into that question.

I think Purdue neutralizes Wisconsin's rebounding advantages that gives them so many extra possessions.  Wisconsin's defense is fine but not good enough over 7 games against Purdue who has an elite offense.  Probably 5-6 games and they win the series.

Haven't seen enough of Auburn or even really paid attention to them other than glancing at the numbers.  Their best win is Texas A&M. FWIW, when they win, they blow the doors off opponents.

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 27, 2024, 06:45:39 PM
Goose,

I'd like others insight as well but for me it's a two part question.

1) There does not seem to be a dominant team in the NCAA that can just run over teams like UConn did last year.  So that is in MUs and many other teams favor.

2) Based on MUs talent and experience they definitely have the ability to make a run especially given point number 1.

They make threes at a good clip, they can beat anyone in the country.

Should be a fun ride.

UConn was 5-6 in conference play at this point last year. They certainly didn't seem like  the same team in late January compared to March. There very well could be a team that starts to dominate the landscape in the near future (February) that has not shown yet what they are capable.

We R FF

No doubt on UConn. Rico mentioned Purdue and Houston with a chance to roll in March. Like Shooter said, there are a number of teams that can get in the upcoming weeks.

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 07:41:11 PM
We R FF

No doubt on UConn. Rico mentioned Purdue and Houston with a chance to roll in March. Like Shooter said, there are a number of teams that can get in the upcoming weeks.

I should probably include UConn, too.  Historically, their current defensive numbers aren't a predictor of a national champ but teams don't shoot well against them.

When I watch them, they look the part.  Not a fan of the tempo they play at.  But I think Hurley deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how he runs his team 

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 03:23:19 PM
Doctor

I do think there might have been more than tough love out there and that is fine by me. I think your comments are spot on.

IMO, Gold seems to have Kolek type attitude and I like that a lot. I think he would not be afraid to mix it up if needed and all he needs is continue to gain confidence.

I think there will be a lot of Ben Gold fans before he is done. Who knows, he might just be the next NBA player from MU a year from now.

Goose,
your man Gold was active, involved more defensively. Hopefully this continues. Definitely makes MU better. Shot is still flat...it's either in, or a clank. But, good game from Gold. However, why do you often mention Gold as a NBA possibility? What are you seeing? I attended a Bucks GLeague team game in Oshkosh. Gold would get run over at the GLeague level. Even YOY improvement, after seeing the AAA version of the Association, there is a huge separation between good college player and pro player. Huge. It's also why I don't see good college player TK in the NBA. (Heck, '22 lotto draft pick Johnny Davis was just sent down to the G.)

My hot take. Our Forwards/centers-Oso, Jop, and Ben-have a higher ceiling than our guards.

Viper

First, it is not uncommon that guys that are simply good college players become good to very good pro players. As for Gold, my take is simply based off of what basketball a long time. Being 6-11 is an immediate positive, coupled with I believe will be an elite shooter for a big man and that translates well at the next level.

IMO, it is far harder for a good to very good 6-6 and under guy to crack an NBA roster simply due to numbers. Gold appears to be a better than average athlete, good handle, appears to have a good feel for the game and that is encouraging to me.

In addition, my gut tells me that he has learned a great deal watching Oso and probably is not playing a role that showcases his real basketball skills. IMO, if Gold continues to get minutes and plays well we may see more of those skills moving forward. And again, he is 6-11 and has the look of being an elite shooting big man.

To be honest, I hope it takes Gold two more years to earn an NBA spot because I think he will end up being a very good college player. That said, the NBA is a business and I think they come calling for him after next season.

Quote from: Goose on January 27, 2024, 07:16:57 PM
Dr. B

The team, but thoughts on Gold would be appreciated as well.

I'll put my Gold take here to be on topic and keep thread sprawl down.

Gold is not a 5, he is a 4/3. It's no mistake that he's had his best two games playing with Oso and Jop on the floor at the same time (as have they).  Can he play the 5 in a five out? Yes but he is exposed on D and MU should switch 1-4 when he is the only one out there (otherwise I get a Theo or Luke vibe on a PG).

On offense, his mechanics are finally getting more consistent and he is doing damage. Teams pay attention to him on the perimeter. If he makes it in the NBA it will be by making consistent threes like Steve and Sam. Unique size and ability

I have no idea if Gold will be an NBA player or even a very good college player. I hope he will excel for Marquette for another year or two after this one, and I'm encouraged by what he's done in the extra minutes he's been asked to play due to others' injuries, but we obviously don't "know" what kind of player Ben Gold will become yet. If he can show NBA types that he can consistently hit the NBA 3, he will have a chance at a nice career there - just as Sam has done. If he can't, he probably can't play at that level unless he improves markedly at several other facets.

If there was one Scooper who watched Oso as a sophomore and said, "This guy is gonna be the best big man in the Big East as a senior, and then a likely first-round draft pick," I would ask that Scooper to please provide a link to that comment. And I will invite that Scooper to change his or her screen name to Scoop's All-Time Knower of Ball.

There were some pretty bad takes about Gold on this board - and about Stevie too, for that matter. I get that fans are impatient and often irrational, but jeesh.

Viper, I watched Ellenson struggle with athletic G-league forwards, so I understand your skepticism there.   However, who would have thought two years ago when Oso was backing up Kur that he would become the current version of himself.    Patience.   Trust the process.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTk1OTU2NjQ1NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTEyNTQ5Ng@@._V1_.jpg)

Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 09:06:55 AM
Viper, I watched Ellenson struggle with athletic G-league forwards, so I understand your skepticism there.   However, who would have thought two years ago when Oso was backing up Kur that he would become the current version of himself.    Patience.   Trust the process.

you are correct. Where Oso was, and now is, awesome.

Sam ended up being a passable defender because he could read the game well. Had very good instincts. I'm starting to see that happen with Ben. He's recognizing what's happening a step faster than he did at the beginning of the year. Last year, he doesn't get to that block that ended up with Jop's and one.

The game is slowing down for him and it's happening at a really good time for MU. Next step is to get him some easy ones off of some cuts now that they have to guard him out to the line.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2024, 08:47:46 AM
Gold is not a 5, he is a 4/3. It's no mistake that he's had his best two games playing with Oso and Jop on the floor at the same time (as have they).  Can he play the 5 in a five out? Yes but he is exposed on D and MU should switch 1-4 when he is the only one out there (otherwise I get a Theo or Luke vibe on a PG).

This.

Watching Ben guard the ball at the top of the key while Sean was pinned down in the paint on a guy twice his height was no bueno.

The play where Gold guarded on the perimeter, got his guy to give it up, then suddenly flashed back inside to get the deflection that caused a turnover on the other side of the court was really impressive. I haven't gone back and rewatched it, but the heads up nature, quickness, and use of length on that play looked very good live.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 27, 2024, 05:31:08 PM
Ben Ponce Gold. Stepped up in the starter's role and played his best game. He was awesome today.

As smooth and good as Ponce Gold, hey

Dr. B

I have always been confused when folks are talking about Gold being a 5. If he ends playing at the next level, it will likely be a 3 or a 4. The comp of Novak and Sam are solid, but I think he is more rounded as a player and definitely bigger, both in height and frame.

Some good takes here.
It's apparent that Ben has the size and fundamentals to fit the mold of an elite sharpshooting big at the next level.
I also agree that he has a good feel and read for the game, with a ton of room to grow.

One problem though.

If we are comparing him to the likes of Novak and Sam we have to point out that those guys were ELITE shooters, some of the best in Marquette history, and that's essentially where their opportunity came from.
ELITE outside shooters that have the size and intelligence level to make the other stuff work as best as they could.

Benny is nowhere in the stratosphere of Novak and Sam with regards to shooting.
I'm too lazy to look up the data, but anyone that watched them play, which we all have, knows that Novak was probably the best 3P shooter in Marquette hx (hello Markus?) and Sam Hauser was darn near close to that level.

In our recent hx we had ELITE 3P shooters in Sam, Markus, and Rowsey.

In this current crop, even our "good to great" 3P shooters are nowhere near that.
I mean Kam and Jop are considered great 3P shooters on this team and Kameron is a career 35% 3P shooter.
Joplin is the best 3P shooter of this current crop of MU players and he's not even in the Sam/Markus/Rowsey/Novak stratosphere.

This system is much better, and these guys can all shine in it, but that doesn't change their raw abilities.
Can Benny become a 40-45% 3P shooter in the next few years? Sure, maybe. He's shooting over 50% in the last two.

Can he become Markus, Sam, or Steve good from the outside? Id say no chance.
Those guys were ELITE and it was always obvious.
So, because of that, I think Benny will need to continue to improve defensively and in all other aspects of his game to be useful and needed next level. Tap that sneaky athleticism and good game IQ

Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2024, 11:22:37 AM
Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

Yea, great distinction. The extra size makes a big difference.

The part about catching and shooting and him being perfect for MUs style of play is spot on.
He's gotten more open looks from 3 than anyone on the team.

That said, because of that even if he starts canning them at a 45% clip it might be a bit of "fools Gold" with regards to the next level because a lot of bigs at that level are super athletic and in your face, even from 3, ala Oso when he's defending on the perimeter.
So, you've got to be able to create your own shot from 3.

Fwiw I think Ben has the ability to do that at this level and I want to see him start. Someone already mentioned he's got the head fake drive to the hoop in him, and we've seen that. Once he does that a few times then he will be able to head fake/blow by or head fake dribble into an open 3.
Not sure if he will be able to do that at the next level but I hope we get to find out.

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2024, 11:22:37 AM
Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

Agree. If Benny is on, opponents will have a major matchup disadvantage. Is he elite yet, Doc V? Obviously not but once he gets consistent mechanics, he'll be a handful and can be more multi-dimensional. That said, he ain't a 5 but he has a ceiling that's attractive to the NBA (thus his history with the NBA Academy). Has a ways to go.

Doctor V

Rewatch the ND game from last year and see his head fake, followed by a thunderous dunk. It was that move that caught my attention. The few times he has gone to the hole he has done it with authority.

Not sure if I agree on not getting open looks in the NBA. Brooks Lopez is not much of an athlete and fires a lot open 3's on a nightly basis.

DocV - some very good points there about the comparison between Novak/Hauser and Gold. The first two were elite shooters right out of the gate. Freshman Novak was a major reason we advanced to the '03 Sweet 16. Freshman Sam shot .453 from 3.

But guys develop at different rates. Gold already has improved significantly as an all-around player, and he has had some excellent shooting streaks. Be patient!

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 28, 2024, 10:36:09 AM
The play where Gold guarded on the perimeter, got his guy to give it up, then suddenly flashed back inside to get the deflection that caused a turnover on the other side of the court was really impressive. I haven't gone back and rewatched it, but the heads up nature, quickness, and use of length on that play looked very good live.

Yes! That play actually was the subject of the text-chain I was on during the game. Another guy and I were raving about it! Hell of a play. You can't do that if you're not a decent athlete with a plus hoops IQ.

Quote from: Goose on January 28, 2024, 10:51:54 AM
Dr. B

I have always been confused when folks are talking about Gold being a 5. If he ends playing at the next level, it will likely be a 3 or a 4. The comp of Novak and Sam are solid, but I think he is more rounded as a player and definitely bigger, both in height and frame.

I can only speak for myself, but when I say Gold can play the 5, I am referring to the context of the MU roster.  Oso starts at the 5 and Gold is his backup.  They can also play together though.

Honestly, neither Oso nor Gold are prototypical 5s.  Oso's position is "ball handling big" and Gold's is "stretch big."  That's what their NBA positions would be.   Oso will be drafted for sure, while Gold is still a long way off from the NBA, if he even makes it.

But Gold's NBA chances are better than zero.  If he can shoot, defend, and rebound enough he will make it.  That remains to be seen. 

Player comps to Novak and Hauser don't really fit.  Gold is closer to someone like Jon Leuer (Wisconsin) but obviously Gold isn't that good yet.

I just rewatched yesterday's game. I've liked Ben from the start but I really think he is making big leaps right now. He had some great saves yesterday. Agree fast guards are just going to blow by him. Otherwise, he is a smart defender.  I really like when he doubles a guard and then drops back into the lane very smoothly and often disrupting the ball movement.  I agree his shooting from 3 needs to be better. I think it is going to be. Also, he seems to have added muscle even as the season has gone on. If he adds bulk over the summer and improves his shot a bit he could easily make a big jump into his junior year.  My money says he does both.