Yep, it's beginning to look like it, with the mediocre players (to put it nicely) that Shaka has brought to MU.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on January 12, 2024, 01:48:40 PM
Yep, it's beginning to look like it, with the mediocre players (to put it nicely) that Shaka has brought to MU.
I am in the same opinion as you, if you include the last year at Texas and the 2 at MU he has recruited one starter out of high school, the rest are marginal players, best players from the portal. I hope he looks in the portal this spring.
His best class might be the 2 recruits coming in next year, hope they can play right away.
I have no dog in the fight but a buddy and myself were talking about the class that would've been for Shaka at Texas. Keeyan, emarion, Tamar bates and Joplin. Woof
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2024, 02:11:17 PM
I have no dog in the fight but a buddy and myself were talking about the class that would've been for Shaka at Texas. Keeyan, emarion, Tamar bates and Joplin. Woof
I'd certainly take Tamar and his 50% 3 point shooting next to Jop's 39% this year.
I tend to agree. Remember Oso, Kam and Stevie were Wojos'. The last impact transfer is now 3 seasons out which is why the future has people concerned. It's amusing to hear the board complain how Gard beats MU with inferior talent but he recruits to his system and coaches very well.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 12, 2024, 02:25:03 PM
I'd certainly take Tamar and his 50% 3 point shooting next to Jop's 39% this year.
Not the point I'm making but go off king
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2024, 02:26:12 PM
Not the point I'm making but go off king
What's the point you were trying to make then?
He would've had 2 starting level juniors in that class. That's pretty much what you'd shoot for. Have 2 players in every class that are good enough to start as upper classmen.
Gard signs his fair share of stiffs. Though he does a good job getting enough of the right pieces in place that fit the system that are effective players for multiple years. I think Shaka pretty much tries to do the same.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 12, 2024, 02:31:40 PM
What's the point you were trying to make then?
He would've had 2 starting level juniors in that class. That's pretty much what you'd shoot for. Have 2 players in every class that are good enough to start as upper classmen.
Bates last few games are the first glimpses of talent we've seen from him so far in college. Ellis is without a team and Keeyan is doing his best...I doubt Texas fans would've loved that class.
What we need is one of the stats people track MU coaches MU record year by year for Kevin O'Neill, Crean, Buzz, Wojo and Shaka. For the hard core stats types, also record progression throughout season.
Quote from: franklinjerry on January 12, 2024, 02:26:03 PM
I tend to agree. Remember Oso, Kam and Stevie were Wojos'. The last impact transfer is now 3 seasons out which is why the future has people concerned. It's amusing to hear the board complain how Gard beats MU with inferior talent but he recruits to his system and coaches very well.
Those three were Wojo recruits but not sure what the point is. If they had left he may have replaced them with better players. We'll never know. He replaced Akanno and Perez with Kolek and Omax.
😂 funny stuff.
Quote from: CountryRoads on January 12, 2024, 02:39:17 PM
Those three were Wojo recruits but not sure what the point is. If they had left he may have replaced them with better players. We'll never know. He replaced Akanno and Perez with Kolek and Omax.
This is a good point, And also, Shaka had to re-recruit Kam, Oso and Mitchell to stay. That is no easy task either.
Quote from: Daniel on January 12, 2024, 07:00:58 PM
This is a good point, And also, Shaka had to re-recruit Kam, Oso and Mitchell to stay. That is no easy task either.
Of course it is! Kids are required to commit to the school, not the coach!!
I've come to appreciate Gard. Capital H hate UW, but Gard has a system and recruits to it similar to what Bo did and Dick Bennet did prior to Bo. And, Gard getting AJ Stohr was huge!! Gard has had some crap players and a couple bad seasons, for sure, but this is a big-time bounce back season for them. I still shake my head at how bad UW was for decades, and how solid they've become. I hate em, but it's a Walmart Badger Nation.
Shaka is still a TBD for me. Can Lowrey, Norman and Amadou play at this level? Do the incoming guys for next season have impact potential? Is Marquette Shaka Texas Shaka? MU under Shaka beat no. 1 Kansas and won the BE, but MU under Shaka looked absolutely terrible with a capital T vs Butler. Gard is pretty good...recruiting to his system. Hoping Shaka will recruit and be better. TBD, I suppose.
Greg Gard sucks
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 12, 2024, 07:11:08 PM
Of course it is! Kids are required to commit to the school, not the coach!!
Then why do some players follow the coach to their new school. Sure some stay as well, but it is the coach that convinced to stay not the school.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 12, 2024, 09:03:40 PM
Then why do some players follow the coach to their new school. Sure some stay as well, but it is the coach that convinced to stay not the school.
Then they lied on contracts they signed. Prosecution is warranted.
I don't believe he is a better recruiter but Gard getting Storr from the transfer portal is probably going to be the difference in being a 8/9 seed in the ncaa tournament and potentially a sweet 16/ elite 8 berth.
All over the country you see the affects of transfer portal guys. I don't blame Shaka this go around because he had everyone coming back minus omax. However you can always get better. I'm sure it was a chemistry thing for Shaka why he choose not to. Moving forward I don't think we will have this issue again.
Gard has also moved away from the swing being the sole set offense. They are playing at a slightly quicker pace this year as well. (Still slower than average but still...)
I think he's definitely moved out of Bo's shadow and made the program his own.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 07:28:37 AM
Gard has also moved away from the swing being the sole set offense. They are playing at a slightly quicker pace this year as well. (Still slower than average but still...)
I think he's definitely moved out of Bo's shadow and made the program his own.
They're 326th in pace
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 13, 2024, 08:24:32 AM
They're 326th in pace
Goes to show you how effective they have been. Metrics show this offense is the best they have had in Madison since 2015 and is outperforming the 2014 final four team. Pace doesn't mean anything.
The offense is getting away from the swing and Kirk penny former Wisconsin player is installing a European style offense that he learned overseas.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on January 13, 2024, 08:29:00 AM
Goes to show you how effective they have been. Metrics show this offense is the best they have had in Madison since 2015 and is outperforming the 2014 final four team. Pace doesn't mean anything.
We'll see how it holds up.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 13, 2024, 08:24:32 AM
They're 326th in pace
They were higher earlier in the year! Apparently I haven't kept up.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 08:35:13 AM
They were higher earlier in the year! Apparently I haven't kept up.
They started the year playing high tempo but quickly reverted.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 07:28:37 AM
They are playing at a slightly quicker pace this year as well. (Still slower than average but still...)
Source??
It seems kind of early to draw conclusions about Shaka's ability to recruit at MU
He really didn't have time to do any recruiting for his first year and had to rely on trying to retain some of Wojo's players and getting transfers.
For year 2 he brought in Ross, S Jones, and Gold, who were all contributors to a championship team.
We'll find out about Norman and Lowrey soon, and Amadou and Hamilton and the class of 24 down the road.
I really think Shaka has to recognize that relying entirely on recruiting high school players and developing them in today's world is like playing with one hand tied behind your back. He has to be willing to shop in the portal to fill in immediate needs. I can see why he didn't do it this year with 8 of 9 rotation players from a championship team returning. But he has to see how other teams in the conference have improved themselves significantly, and to the point they have surpassed MU.
After what we have seen so far in conference play, if you restarted the conference season would you pick MU as the favorite? I wouldn't, and that's even before the injuries.
Well put, Wisblue. Even if Kolek returns, now that Sean Jones is on the shelf for several months it'd be negligent of Shaka not to at least dip into the portal for point guard help/insurance
Quote from: Boone on January 13, 2024, 03:48:08 PM
Well put, Wisblue. With Sean Jones on the shelf for several months and Kolek questionable to return, it'd be negligent of Shaka not to at least dip into the portal for point guard help
Here's a former high makor PG who's available.
https://www.pjstar.com/story/sports/college/basketball/bradley-hoops/2024/01/06/emarion-ellis-leaves-bradley-basketball-program-before-missouri-state-game/72134453007/
Parham with 25 and Owens with 21. They look really good.
https://twitter.com/DeeAyySports/status/1746294124951552472?t=yvbvcmery2vYu_RRd9PaAQ&s=19
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 13, 2024, 04:32:48 PM
Parham with 25 and Owens with 21. They look really good.
https://twitter.com/DeeAyySports/status/1746294124951552472?t=yvbvcmery2vYu_RRd9PaAQ&s=19
...they all do, in high school
Quote from: Boone on January 13, 2024, 03:48:08 PM
Well put, Wisblue. Even if Kolek returns, now that Sean Jones is on the shelf for several months it'd be negligent of Shaka not to at least dip into the portal for point guard help/insurance
why would Kolek not return? Is he thinking of another school for next season?
Quote from: Viper on January 13, 2024, 06:12:47 PM
why would Kolek not return? Is he thinking of another school for next season?
(https://assets-global.website-files.com/645233d4a1a3e690fd96943f/64e7655c5ef5c4567081c060_image-20230818-070016.png)
Quote from: panda on January 13, 2024, 06:15:33 PM
(https://assets-global.website-files.com/645233d4a1a3e690fd96943f/64e7655c5ef5c4567081c060_image-20230818-070016.png)
haha. I'm a TK fan, but are you implying NBA? Please. G-league, sure, I suppose.
Quote from: Viper on January 13, 2024, 06:34:10 PM
haha. I'm a TK fan, but are you implying NBA? Please. G-league, sure, I suppose.
Just a joke - I love that meme
I initially applauded Shaka for his view of the transfer portal, but I have now changed my perspective. The portal, like it or not, is here to stay and is a tool you cannot ignore. Shake is recruiting high school players that are not ready to play BE basketball; they have to be developed. Some of them develop, and some of them don't. Even those that develop into BE players can take two years to get there. And, unfortunately, injuries also happen. All that means that you are going to have holes in your roster that need to be filled ffectively.by players who can contribute immediately. Yes, bringing in a transfer can mess with team chemistry, but other coaches are dealing with this effectively. I suspect Shaka's view of the portal will evolve just as mine has. In fact, his portal philosophy may evolve quickly.
I don't think Shaka is completely against the transfer portal. I think he just had a lot of confidence that the continuity of last year's team was the most important factor for success this year. I think this off-season is going to be telling. If TK leaves, how does he manage the back court?
The transfer portal costs big NIL which throws off the NIL structure balance of the current roster. Despite what Scoopers believe, MUs coop doesn't have that kind of limitless cash, and by situationally overpaying, that flies in the face of Shaka's philosophy.
Symir Torrence ranks 4th in the NCAA in assists. 8 places ahead of Tyler.
Obviously it was a mistake to let him go.
Where's that teal button?
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 14, 2024, 08:55:45 AM
Symir Torrence ranks 4th in the NCAA in assists. 8 places ahead of Tyler.
Obviously it was a mistake to let him go.
Where's that teal button?
Does John "magic" Dawson still have eligibility?
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2024, 09:09:02 AM
Does John "magic" Dawson still have eligibility?
I hope not. He wasn't very good
Quote from: rgoode57 on January 14, 2024, 08:12:44 AM
I initially applauded Shaka for his view of the transfer portal, but I have now changed my perspective. The portal, like it or not, is here to stay and is a tool you cannot ignore. Shake is recruiting high school players that are not ready to play BE basketball; they have to be developed. Some of them develop, and some of them don't. Even those that develop into BE players can take two years to get there. And, unfortunately, injuries also happen. All that means that you are going to have holes in your roster that need to be filled ffectively.by players who can contribute immediately. Yes, bringing in a transfer can mess with team chemistry, but other coaches are dealing with this effectively. I suspect Shaka's view of the portal will evolve just as mine has. In fact, his portal philosophy may evolve quickly.
If there was ever a season that Shaka should have relaxed his recruiting strategy, this was it.
We returned nearly everyone from a Big East Championship/2-seed team, and yet none of the recruiting decisions were made with the mindset of adding talent to support an NCAA tournament run.
I liken the situation to a 1st place MLB team in a pennant race at the trade deadline. Such teams frequently trade future prospects to add depth to the current roster because you just don't know when the stars will align again to put you in contention for a championship.
Shaka did the opposite. Every recruiting decision Shaka made was for 2025 or beyond:
- 2 Borderline top 100 guys in Lowery & Norman (Neither were RSCI top 100). I get the attraction of Lowery and Norman, but face it, they're not sure things to play a major role on a championship contender as freshmen. They're going to be great players--in 2025 or 2026. See the career trajectory of Oso Ighadoro. I think most MU fans would have gladly suffered a rebuilding year next season if we brought in a pair of players the likes of Storr, Oliveri, Bamba, Spencer, or Dingle to solidify the 23-24 roster.
- A Project Big: Amadou. I can only imagine that Shaka was thinking about who's going to take Oso's minutes next year and beyond. But we could have landed a similar player next year. Meanwhile, we have a guy using a scholarship who is currently seen only 27 minutes this season to date and shows no signs of getting more as we get deeper in the season..
- Allow Caedin Hamilton to reclass and immediately redshirt: No matter how promising Amadou or Hamilton are, their presence on this year's roster does nothing to help take last year's team over the top. They were never going to help us in 2023-24. They may be a solid piece on the 2026 or 2027 roster. Shaka gave up recruiting insurance against injury on this year's team for players who *may* develop into contributors two or three years from now.
- Bank a scholarship (otherwise known as a self-imposed penalty). Inexcusable. Did Shaka really think the returning players were immune to injury?
I get the arguments people will make around not enough minutes, not recruting over current players, etc. However, if you've spent 3 or 4 years at Penn or Harvard or Rice, you might be willing to take a scholarship with less playing opportunity in exchange for being part of a championship run.
And if the egos of Jop or Stevie or Kam are so fragile that the mere presence of someone who might challenge them for minutes pushes them over the edge, they probably don't have the right mindsent to make a championship run on their own. No matter what you think about the negatives of being recruited over, our guys coming back knew there was nobody behind them who could concievably challenge their role--and that's could explain why we see so many guys who have plateaued or taken a step back. Seeing a 3- or 4-year starter from a lower-level program may have given them the motivation to work harder to improve over the summer.
Ok Equalizer, all fair points.
The two things that jumped out immediately to me during the interview with Jen Lada were that
1- Shaka gave a shout out to his wife and how much he loves her, twice.
2- Shaka made a comment to Marquette Nation about how we win together, and we lose together with class and that the team needs our support in both winning and losing times (paraphrasing)
The first stood out to me because the Butler game was likely one of the hardest moments in Shaka's Marquette career. He's human, he's passionate, and it likely affected him 1000x more than it affected us.
Everyone needs their support system in times like this, and Shaka's wife and daughter I'm certain helped him overcome the heartache.
The second stood out to me because Coach is spot on. He's building a championship and winning culture at Marquette, or trying to.
He's already accomplished a regular season and conference tournament championship, in extreme short order, so he personally gets a heck of a leash.
In that end, he gets the benefit of the doubt in all his program building decisions, including recruiting and how he approaches it, for several years still.
When he spent 2 weeks in a bunker at the Al and showed up with TyKo, Omax etc. as MU transfers we all kind of scratched our heads at first, the coaches did too and predicted 9th, and Shaka was proven brilliant.
I'm sure he was probably slightly surprised it ended up as well as it did, but why wouldn't he run it back with what he has?
I agree with you that he should've used the extra schollie at the very least for depth, but he decided not to and that's ok.
Now he's tasked with figuring out how to win with freshman that he's given limited minutes to up to this point, and we will see how he does.
All of this doesn't mean we can't question his game to game moves, his in game decisions, or the future of the program, because we can. All I'm saying is that he gets a major benefit of the doubt with regards to his overall structuring of the program, his recruiting style, and his vision going forward for quite a while because he's earned it.
It's also ok to be disappointed with the current results and trajectory of this season, and be concerned with the outlook of the next- but that just comes anytime you falter with super high end expectations...
Shaka got us to those high end expectations after all.
The beauty of it is that the next game, and the 15-20 after that, can completely change the narrative in a positive direction yet again.
So let's do that Shaka and Co.
If not, as he said, those guys will need our support in good times or bad.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 14, 2024, 08:26:10 AM
The transfer portal costs big NIL which throws off the NIL structure balance of the current roster. Despite what Scoopers believe, MUs coop doesn't have that kind of limitless cash, and by situationally overpaying, that flies in the face of Shaka's philosophy.
NIL is also a fact of life in today's world of college basketball. MU might not have limitless cash, but if it doesn't have enough to compete for impact transfers, it's essentially a concession that MU is unlikely to compete with the teams that do have the resources to attract them.
Free transfers and the ability for teams to pay for talent is already lowering my enthusiasm for college sports. If things continue on this path that enthusiasm will be completely gone. The schools with boosters willing to throw huge money at any player that can help them will be the only ones able to compete for championships.
It is easy to say Shaka should have gone into the portal for an impact player.
Realistic factors he didn't or couldn't find the right impact player.
1. NIL - It's the wild west and I don't know if we can ever compete for high impact portal players getting more money from other programs
2. NIL - How hard did Shaka have to recruit his existing players to stay instead of going Pro or going elsewhere for more money?
3. Team chemistry - We lost 1 impact player from last year. Easy to see why you don't mess with this with all the players coming back.
4. Impact transfer - Would an impact player even consider transferring to a team where they would not be promised minutes and might not play a lot? Then factor in NIL money
5. One year impact transfer not a guarantee - Landscape is littered with transfer players who made little to no major impact. Balance that with current roster makeup and I can see why Shaka went with incoming freshmen he can mold over a portal player
I bring these up because it's not black and white. Shaka did what he thought was best for this team. I can't blame him. It sure looked like he made the right move in early December. Now with 2 major injuries, more experienced depth would have been great.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 14, 2024, 08:26:10 AM
The transfer portal costs big NIL which throws off the NIL structure balance of the current roster. Despite what Scoopers believe, MUs coop doesn't have that kind of limitless cash, and by situationally overpaying, that flies in the face of Shaka's philosophy.
This was the concern once NIL started. And by what you are saying still is. I just hope that the philosophy we have gets the team to the tournament most years and a deep run frequently enough to create excitement around the program on a regular basis.
This year was supposed to be and still may be one of those deep runs. RGV + EGBs + NIL will tell the story over the next couple of years.
Ask Wojo how deep the pockets are of mu boosters. That money ain't comin from Marquette
Quote from: panda on January 14, 2024, 01:24:48 PM
Ask Wojo how deep the pockets are of mu boosters. That money ain't comin from Marquette
MU can play the game!
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 14, 2024, 02:25:08 PM
MU can play the game!
10,000%
Fans crying poor are very, very incorrect.
I have zero concern on MU having the money needed to compete in NIL.
Quote from: DoctorV on January 14, 2024, 11:15:41 AM
Ok Equalizer, all fair points.
The two things that jumped out immediately to me during the interview with Jen Lada were that
1- Shaka gave a shout out to his wife and how much he loves her, twice.
2- Shaka made a comment to Marquette Nation about how we win together, and we lose together with class and that the team needs our support in both winning and losing times (paraphrasing)
The first stood out to me because the Butler game was likely one of the hardest moments in Shaka's Marquette career. He's human, he's passionate, and it likely affected him 1000x more than it affected us.
Everyone needs their support system in times like this, and Shaka's wife and daughter I'm certain helped him overcome the heartache.
The second stood out to me because Coach is spot on. He's building a championship and winning culture at Marquette, or trying to.
He's already accomplished a regular season and conference tournament championship, in extreme short order, so he personally gets a heck of a leash.
In that end, he gets the benefit of the doubt in all his program building decisions, including recruiting and how he approaches it, for several years still.
When he spent 2 weeks in a bunker at the Al and showed up with TyKo, Omax etc. as MU transfers we all kind of scratched our heads at first, the coaches did too and predicted 9th, and Shaka was proven brilliant.
I'm sure he was probably slightly surprised it ended up as well as it did, but why wouldn't he run it back with what he has?
I agree with you that he should've used the extra schollie at the very least for depth, but he decided not to and that's ok.
Now he's tasked with figuring out how to win with freshman that he's given limited minutes to up to this point, and we will see how he does.
All of this doesn't mean we can't question his game to game moves, his in game decisions, or the future of the program, because we can. All I'm saying is that he gets a major benefit of the doubt with regards to his overall structuring of the program, his recruiting style, and his vision going forward for quite a while because he's earned it.
It's also ok to be disappointed with the current results and trajectory of this season, and be concerned with the outlook of the next- but that just comes anytime you falter with super high end expectations...
Shaka got us to those high end expectations after all.
The beauty of it is that the next game, and the 15-20 after that, can completely change the narrative in a positive direction yet again.
So let's do that Shaka and Co.
If not, as he said, those guys will need our support in good times or bad.
...I'm surprised that Shaka lifted off the gas on recruiting, or so it seems. Maybe Lowrey and Norman, with anticipated PT, end up as big pieces of a second half of season rebound. But, in this time of parity, DePaul excluded, recruiting is so huge. And let's face it, Shaka probably expected more to this point from Gold off the bench and Jop as a starter. I do feel that tomorrow is a must win if, for no other reason, team confidence. Seems like this season is trending similar to 2022/23 UNC...high ranking early then missing post season entirely (their choice to turn down the NIT).
If Oso and TKo both leave, there is one scholarship open for next season.
Quote from: The Equalizer on January 14, 2024, 10:36:12 AM
If there was ever a season that Shaka should have relaxed his recruiting strategy, this was it.
We returned nearly everyone from a Big East Championship/2-seed team, and yet none of the recruiting decisions were made with the mindset of adding talent to support an NCAA tournament run.
I liken the situation to a 1st place MLB team in a pennant race at the trade deadline. Such teams frequently trade future prospects to add depth to the current roster because you just don't know when the stars will align again to put you in contention for a championship.
Shaka did the opposite. Every recruiting decision Shaka made was for 2025 or beyond:
- 2 Borderline top 100 guys in Lowery & Norman (Neither were RSCI top 100). I get the attraction of Lowery and Norman, but face it, they're not sure things to play a major role on a championship contender as freshmen. They're going to be great players--in 2025 or 2026. See the career trajectory of Oso Ighadoro. I think most MU fans would have gladly suffered a rebuilding year next season if we brought in a pair of players the likes of Storr, Oliveri, Bamba, Spencer, or Dingle to solidify the 23-24 roster.
- A Project Big: Amadou. I can only imagine that Shaka was thinking about who's going to take Oso's minutes next year and beyond. But we could have landed a similar player next year. Meanwhile, we have a guy using a scholarship who is currently seen only 27 minutes this season to date and shows no signs of getting more as we get deeper in the season..
- Allow Caedin Hamilton to reclass and immediately redshirt: No matter how promising Amadou or Hamilton are, their presence on this year's roster does nothing to help take last year's team over the top. They were never going to help us in 2023-24. They may be a solid piece on the 2026 or 2027 roster. Shaka gave up recruiting insurance against injury on this year's team for players who *may* develop into contributors two or three years from now.
- Bank a scholarship (otherwise known as a self-imposed penalty). Inexcusable. Did Shaka really think the returning players were immune to injury?
I get the arguments people will make around not enough minutes, not recruting over current players, etc. However, if you've spent 3 or 4 years at Penn or Harvard or Rice, you might be willing to take a scholarship with less playing opportunity in exchange for being part of a championship run.
And if the egos of Jop or Stevie or Kam are so fragile that the mere presence of someone who might challenge them for minutes pushes them over the edge, they probably don't have the right mindsent to make a championship run on their own. No matter what you think about the negatives of being recruited over, our guys coming back knew there was nobody behind them who could concievably challenge their role--and that's could explain why we see so many guys who have plateaued or taken a step back. Seeing a 3- or 4-year starter from a lower-level program may have given them the motivation to work harder to improve over the summer.
You make some interesting points.
The one I'll push back on is the last one. Unless you have evidence of some guys not working hard in preparation for the season, I'm not buying it.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 08:58:08 PM
You make some interesting points.
The one I'll push back on is the last one. Unless you have evidence of some guys not working hard in preparation for the season, I'm not buying it.
Competition is always better than none. NIL unfortunately complicates it. If that is the factor that prevents portal acquisitions and not simply being recruited over (the old problem) then that is not good moving forward.
I like the point. In some ways these kids need to be a little on edge with regard to playing time.
Not every transfer is seeking out a massive NIL package. Recruiting the portal is no different than high school recruiting a few years ago. Not every good high school recruit had their hand out for under the table cash. Coaches simply need to vet their targets and make sure they're good fits for the program and the team.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 14, 2024, 09:08:15 PM
Competition is always better than none. NIL unfortunately complicates it. If that is the factor that prevents portal acquisitions and not simply being recruited over (the old problem) then that is not good moving forward.
I like the point. In some ways these kids need to be a little on edge with regard to playing time.
Which Marquette players do you think lacked an edge because they weren't pressured by transfers or recruits?
And was the lack of an edge there from the start of the season? I mean, MU sure looked pretty edgy to me in the first month.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 09:41:38 PM
Which Marquette players do you think lacked an edge because they weren't pressured by transfers or recruits?
And was the lack of an edge there from the start of the season? I mean, MU sure looked pretty edgy to me in the first month.
82, no particular players. I think as a rule people can get comfortable in their jobs/roles. Human nature. The general idea is a sound one. Whether it is specifically happening to a specific player/s I think you know I can't tell you that. I'm not close enough to the program. Your guess would be as good as mine. Competition is always good on a competitive sports team. That's the only point.
As for the start of the season, they came out ready to go and have faltered. Hopefully they don't get demolished today. If they win it will be a good sign. Uncle may be right about injury taking its toll. In which case competition wouldn't have helped their edge but only improved the depth on the team. Either way, advantageous.
Big one today. Go MU!
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 15, 2024, 07:24:05 AM
82, no particular players. I think as a rule people can get comfortable in their jobs/roles. Human nature. The general idea is a sound one. Whether it is specifically happening to a specific player/s I think you know I can't tell you that. I'm not close enough to the program. Your guess would be as good as mine. Competition is always good on a competitive sports team. That's the only point.
As for the start of the season, they came out ready to go and have faltered. Hopefully they don't get demolished today. If they win it will be a good sign. Uncle may be right about injury taking its toll. In which case competition wouldn't have helped their edge but only improved the depth on the team. Either way, advantageous.
Big one today. Go MU!
I'm not gonna disagree with you or Equalizer or anybody else that we could have used a real good player from the transfer portal and/or another quality recruit for depth reasons alone (and also possibly for other reasons).
Without evidence, however, I see no reason to believe that the failure to do so made any of our players feel "too comfortable" or made any of them work less. Those who were around the team this summer and fall said they worked their butts off, and the start to our season seemed to show that they were prepared and motivated to have a great season.
Yes, MU has since "faltered" - a good word to describe it. But until I am presented even a shred of proof, I have serious trouble believing that it happened all of a sudden because they got too comfortable due to nobody challenging them for minutes. That's all I'm saying.
Quote from: MU82 on January 15, 2024, 07:41:18 AM
I'm not gonna disagree with you or Equalizer or anybody else that we could have used a real good player from the transfer portal and/or another quality recruit for depth reasons alone (and also possibly for other reasons).
Without evidence, however, I see no reason to believe that the failure to do so made any of our players feel "too comfortable" or made any of them work less. Those who were around the team this summer and fall said they worked their butts off, and the start to our season seemed to show that they were prepared and motivated to have a great season.
Yes, MU has since "faltered" - a good word to describe it. But until I am presented even a shred of proof, I have serious trouble believing that it happened all of a sudden because they got too comfortable due to nobody challenging them for minutes. That's all I'm saying.
That's fair 82. Big one today. Looking forward to seeing the freshman step up and the big three return to dominance. Should be fun.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 15, 2024, 07:49:06 AM
That's fair 82. Big one today. Looking forward to seeing the freshman step up and the big three return to dominance. Should be fun.
Feels like a crucial game today. Here's hoping our big 3 are at their best, and they get a little help from a role player or two.
We Are Marquette!
82
If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2024, 08:19:46 AM
82
If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.
I define "role player" as anybody who isn't a star (or at least an all-conference caliber player). We have only 3 such players, and I doubt that changes before the season's over. A "role player" doesn't mean a guy is inconsistent. Stevie is a consistently good defensive player, but he's still a role player IMHO.
Anyhoo, it's just semantics. You are free to apply whatever classification you want or none at all.
You and I totally agree that MU needs great effort and good performances from multiple players if the ship is to be righted. Might as well start today!
Al McGuire used to say that "the Queen Mary turns with a bump". He was usually talking about coming back in a game but I think it can also apply to a season.
MU needs a win today in the worst way just to begin the process of getting things back on track. It's not going to be easy against a team that is decidedly better than Butler and has a couple of All Conference caliber players in Dixon and Moore.
I said on another thread that I'm surprised MU is favored by 6 points. If they miss their first 3 or 4 3 point shots I could see things getting ugly real fast.
Quote from: Goose on January 14, 2024, 03:39:25 PM
I have zero concern on MU having the money needed to compete in NIL.
Per a MU source, NIL coop amount for all sports is $1.5 million. Not counting what an individual player can pick up on their own, maybe that leaves a mil or so for men's hoops. Bronny's deal alone is $5.9 million.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 15, 2024, 08:56:27 AM
Per a MU source, NIL coop amount for all sports is $1.5 million. Not counting what an individual player can pick up on their own, maybe that leaves a mil or so for men's hoops. Bronny's deal alone is $5.9 million.
Not sure his is the measuring stick we should be using.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 15, 2024, 08:57:46 AM
Not sure his is the measuring stick we should be using.
Except that he set the market, especially for transfers.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-what-nil-price-is-a-projected-high-major-starter-in-the-transfer-looking-portal-looking-for/amp/
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2024, 08:19:46 AM
82
If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.
Hopefully the kiwi harvest begins today.
3/4 from 3 on a 11&7 day, we'll take it.
Quote from: wisblue on January 15, 2024, 08:54:34 AM
Al McGuire used to say that "the Queen Mary turns with a bump". He was usually talking about coming back in a game but I think it can also apply to a season.
MU needs a win today in the worst way just to begin the process of getting things back on track. It's not going to be easy against a team that is decidedly better than Butler and has a couple of All Conference caliber players in Dixon and Moore.
I said on another thread that I'm surprised MU is favored by 6 points. If they miss their first 3 or 4 3 point shots I could see things getting ugly real fast.
Yep. I hope MU grinds out a 1 point win. Sometimes that kind of win makes it easier the next game and then the dominos start to fall. Kind of like a front end free throw that hits ever part of the rim and then falls in. The next one is nothing but net. Just get this win anyway. Big, big game.
EQ's gripes don't make sense to me.
1. When Norman, Lowery, and Amadou committed, MU was coming off a 9 seed season and being blown out in the 1st round. That's the situation they were recruited to, not BE double champs.
2. Shaka had an open scholarship after the season when Ellis, Itejere, and Wright transferred. He kicked the tires on some transfers, but for whatever reason they didn't work out. Maybe Shaka should have done more, but that has nothing to do with the recruiting cycle that landed Tre, Zaide, and Al.
3. When O-Max stayed in the draft, that left 2 open scholarships. Hamilton was added late, well after the height of transfer season. He was going to do a 5th year at prep school and was being targeted as a 2024 target. When he was ready to commit, the staff realized he was academically qualified and they two open spots. Why not do a redshirt year instead of a prep school year?
EQ, I understand your frustration. It would have been great to add an O-Max replacement. But adding the current freshman in no way precluded that. There's still an open scholarship, afterall.
And realistically, the end of the bench will always be filled with players who aren't ready to be rotation players. Some will be straight up projects and not all of them will work out.