MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 06, 2024, 01:07:45 PM
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1. Good luck, Chase. Heal quickly.
2. Opportunities await others. Tre?
3. TKo, all American. That guy was missed. Kam 'Davis' needs to play like Kam Jones.
4. Seton Hall did did a nice job of mucking it up and making MU play down to their ugly.
5. Fouling 3 pt shooters. Oy.
6. Dawes is today's Jean Felix.
7. I love Stevie Mitchell. He and Oso showed up.
8. Physical play is all MU will see in the league going forward.
9. Play bad, come back. Play bad, come back. Lather, rinse, repeat. Ran out of time at the end. One stop short.
10. Nothing to do but bounce back Wednesday, learn from it, and wait to see about Chase's prognosis.
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Kolek needs to get motivated sorely missed today
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Deserved to lose.
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11. We clearly need to improve our relationships. ::)
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#3 should be Tyler Kolek - All-American?
#9 - a theme in all their losses
#11 - looks like a mid-pack Big East team....
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12. Subbing out our starters while they're rolling up 10
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I’ll gladly trade a bumpy BE regular season for a deep run in March
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69. We suck on the road.
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Right now the only places I'd expect this team to win on the road are Georgetown and DePaul.
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I’ll gladly trade a bumpy BE regular season for a deep run in March
Yes. We’ve done the regular season thing. Let’s get battle tested for March.
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I’ll gladly trade a bumpy BE regular season for a deep run in March
I think the issue is the offense is showing that there isn't much there if Tyler isn't showing up. It feels a bit like everyone but Sean has had a regression this year.
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Yes. We’ve done the regular season thing. Let’s get battle tested for March.
Losing is getting battle tested?
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12. Subbing out our starters while they're rolling up 10
When are we supposed to?
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Losing is getting battle tested?
Yes!
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Losing is getting battle tested?
It worked for UConn last year.
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I think the issue is the offense is showing that there isn't much there if Tyler isn't showing up. It feels a bit like everyone but Sean has had a regression this year.
I thought the offense was getting good looks. The shooting stinks.
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at this point, our hope is to pull a UConn and make a run in the tourney
Yes. We’ve done the regular season thing. Let’s get battle tested for March.
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Chase being hurt completely changed everything.
It is very crazy to see just how important each individual is for Marquette. Stevie might be our best and most active defender, but Chase is their most physical presence in the back court and they needed him on Richmond.
Butler is just as physical on the offensive end. Need someone to step up. Not sure who it will be.
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When are we supposed to?
In the entire 2nd half when they are playing like crap. Definitely from the 6 min to 230 mark when SJ22 sat for no reason.
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We could never get over the hump and our two best perimeter players honestly were essentially a no show.. It's a little hard to understand.
This was an incredibly frustrating performance.
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Still waiting for Kolek, Oso and Kam to all have a good game at the same time since Maui. All 3 have not had a good game at the same time since November.
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12. Subbing out our starters while they're rolling up 10
Shaka does what he always does. Started subbing between the first and second media timeouts. Sticking to his substitution patterns was not what cost MU the game.
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Tyler and Kam need to be better on the road. Too many self inflicted wounds today.
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Chase being hurt completely change everything.
It is very crazy to see just how important each individual is for Marquette. Stevie might be our best and most active defender, but Chase is their most physical presence in the back court and they needed him on Richmond.
Butler is just as physical on the offensive end. Need someone to step up. Not sure who it will be.
Nah.
Kam and TyKo stunk. They were cooking, then got subbed out before that injury and then didn’t play well the rest of the 30 minutes after that. Not a Chase thing, but hope he heals quickly
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In the entire 2nd half when they are playing like crap. Definitely from the 6 min to 230 mark when SJ22 sat for no reason.
What?
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SH had 22 turnovers and still won. MU self inflicted themselves.
Down two after big Joplin three, then:
Joplin miss open three
Joplin turnover
Joplin miss open three
Mitchell miss open three
Kolek miss open three
Two of misses were then layups because of no transition defense, like they gave up. Those above five straight possessions after being down 10 was the difference. Shaka don’t mind them shooting threes though.
To be really technical:
Six SH points on fouling threes
Mitchell missing front end free throw before half
8 points…..
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the definition of "playing stupid"
SH had 22 turnovers and still won. MU self inflicted themselves.
Down two after big Joplin three, then:
Joplin miss open three
Joplin turnover
Joplin miss open three
Mitchell miss open three
Kolek miss open three
Two of misses were then layups because of no transition defense, like they gave up. Those above five straight possessions after being down 10 was the difference. Shaka don’t mind them shooting threes though.
To be really technical:
Six SH points on fouling threes
Mitchell missing front end free throw before half
8 points…..
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Shaka does what he always does. Started subbing between the first and second media timeouts. Sticking to his substitution patterns was not what cost MU the game.
Nonsense.
Sticking to a rigid plan with no feel for what's going on in the actual game did cost MU the game.
I don't think much of the guy, but sitting Sean Jones at about the 5 minute mark (?) also was a horrible decision.
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SH had 22 turnovers and still won. MU self inflicted themselves.
Down two after big Joplin three, then:
Joplin miss open three
Joplin turnover
Joplin miss open three
Mitchell miss open three
Kolek miss open three
Two of misses were then layups because of no transition defense, like they gave up. Those above five straight possessions after being down 10 was the difference. Shaka don’t mind them shooting threes though.
To be really technical:
Six SH points on fouling threes
Mitchell missing front end free throw before half
8 points…..
Kolek being MIA was the deciding factor in the game. Nobody took a bad 3 today.
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Can't have Kam and Kokek as non-factors most of the game on O. Kolek played like his first year-never looking to shoot. So strange. Absolutely lacking a physical presence on this team. Ross out makes that situation even worse.
Butler has the bodies to play very physical. MU better wake up.
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Last year in conference play we were the hunters. This year, we're the hunted. That difference has shown in both of the road games so far this season. Our opponents have shown more focus and grit than we have. I really think that TKo's "F 'em" attitude from last year was what drove us to success. Now we're taking the conference for granted.
They need to figure it out in March in order to reach to ultimate peak.
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the definition of "playing stupid"
Jop was open and certain guys passed up shots. The bottom line is TyKo and Kam were 6-21. I think between them they made one field goal the entire 2nd half. We're not beating decent teams on the road if they do not show up.
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Losing is getting battle tested?
You don’t think you can arguably learn more from losses than wins?
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Can we stop saying we have "the best backcourt in the country" now....
Can't have Kam and Kokek as non-factors most of the game on O. Kolek played like his first year-never looking to shoot. So strange. Absolutely lacking a physical presence on this team. Ross out makes that situation even worse.
Butler has the bodies to play very physical. MU better wake up.
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It's pretty simple:
-Kolek didn't show up.
-Kam's shooting slump continues
-Ross gets hurt early
-Fouling 3 point shooters (again), allowed those easy transition run-outs in the last 4 minutes and SH hit their free-throws.
This team also beat UConn and Providence at home.
Also, anyone calling us a middle-of-the pack BE team should delete their account.
Confident we'll be fine.
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Shaka does what he always does. Started subbing between the first and second media timeouts. Sticking to his substitution patterns was not what cost MU the game.
It also shows a bit too much of a prescriptive approach. I get the criticism and think it has merit
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as they are currently playing, they are a middle of the pack BE team right now....
It's pretty simple:
-Kolek didn't show up.
-Kam's shooting slump continues
-Ross gets hurt early
-Fouling 3 point shooters (again), allowed those easy transition run-outs in the last 4 minutes and SH hit their free-throws.
This team also beat UConn and Providence at home.
Also, anyone calling us a middle-of-the pack BE team should delete their account.
Confident we'll be fine.
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Kolek being MIA was the deciding factor in the game. Nobody took a bad 3 today.
Never used the word "bad shot", they were wide open. Live and die by the three, MU died. Point is those were the straight possessions and laziness on defense transition, after a big MU run, that really hurt MU.
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Must have missed it, was Zaide out today?
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Outrebounded 41-25. Virtually no Kolek, and Kam 3-10 on 3's. Would have been a different ending without the fouls on 3's and the two nobody-back jams. MU cannot beat more physical teams if fouls aren't called and/or our 3's aren't dropping.
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as they are currently playing, they are a middle of the pack BE team right now....
If that's the case, there's one good team and every other BE team is middle of the pack or worse.
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If you told me we would hold Bediako to 3 offensive rebounds, win the turnover battle 22-10, and play at the pace we want, I would've expected a 15-20 point win. This is simply a bad loss to a bad team. So much wrong with today. Kam and Tyler both just not showing up. Not having an answer for them inside. Not being able to create our own shots inside when that's our specialty. Giving up the two run-outs after tying the game that proved to the the margin difference between a win and loss. We just didn't seem well-prepared to beat an inferior opponent on the road.
I've been all in on this team being a national title contender, but we just don't look like it right now. The offense is a pale shadow of what last year was and the defensive improvement isn't enough to offset it. Not sure our ceiling, but at the moment it feels more like the second weekend than competing to cut down nets in the third.
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Really thought Kolek was going to right his ship today, he looked SO good early on and SO poor for the rest of the game. Someone used the term disinterested, it sure seems that way sometimes. Hope he is okay physically and mentally. Kid has heart, it’s in there, the fight is in there.
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I think Seton Hall may have staying power and finish top 4 in BE. They are senior and 5th year laden and have a lot of experience. Already have beaten us, UConn and Providence.
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If you told me we would hold Bediako to 3 offensive rebounds, win the turnover battle 22-10, and play at the pace we want, I would've expected a 15-20 point win. This is simply a bad loss to a bad team. So much wrong with today. Kam and Tyler both just not showing up. Not having an answer for them inside. Not being able to create our own shots inside when that's our specialty. Giving up the two run-outs after tying the game that proved to the the margin difference between a win and loss. We just didn't seem well-prepared to beat an inferior opponent on the road.
I've been all in on this team being a national title contender, but we just don't look like it right now. The offense is a pale shadow of what last year was and the defensive improvement isn't enough to offset it. Not sure our ceiling, but at the moment it feels more like the second weekend than competing to cut down nets in the third.
Feels like a round of 32 team.
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The story of this loss is the same as most all MU's weaker performances: they did not shoot well, and they rebounded very poorly. That's the losing formula for this team.
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Offensively - Kam and Kolek are not having good years. Definitely not consistent. That is fine if others step up but when Gold, Jop, Ross and SJ struggle offensively, we struggle to win.
Defensively - We seem a little off. Our offensive issues are magnified when our defense gives up too many easy buckets. We turned over SH today but when we didn't, they seemed to score way too easily.
Its a long season and this team is obviously talented. We could continue to struggle for much of the year and still figure things out where we could beat anyone and win 6 in a row in March. The talent is there but we need to figure things out and get over the hump.
Need Kam to find his mojo.
Need Kolek to be more assertive.
Need SJ, Stevie and Gold to be more consistent scoring threats.
Need Ross to come back or have one of the freshmen figure things out quickly and contribute.
Need Jop and Gold to become more of an inside scoring threats.
Need to figure out how to defend better as a team when Gold is on the court.
We have 2 months to figure it out.
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TKo and Kam were MIA. MU forced 22 turnovers and gave up 78 points. What does the defensive ppp look like on non-turnover possessions?
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If you told me we would hold Bediako to 3 offensive rebounds, win the turnover battle 22-10, and play at the pace we want, I would've expected a 15-20 point win. This is simply a bad loss to a bad team. So much wrong with today. Kam and Tyler both just not showing up. Not having an answer for them inside. Not being able to create our own shots inside when that's our specialty. Giving up the two run-outs after tying the game that proved to the the margin difference between a win and loss. We just didn't seem well-prepared to beat an inferior opponent on the road.
I've been all in on this team being a national title contender, but we just don't look like it right now. The offense is a pale shadow of what last year was and the defensive improvement isn't enough to offset it. Not sure our ceiling, but at the moment it feels more like the second weekend than competing to cut down nets in the third.
Brew, our h-c offense has not been good. I dunno if it's as simple as not making shots but we have major droughts combined with some boneheaded decision making.
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I've been all in on this team being a national title contender, but we just don't look like it right now. The offense is a pale shadow of what last year was and the defensive improvement isn't enough to offset it. Not sure our ceiling, but at the moment it feels more like the second weekend than competing to cut down nets in the third.
I think this generally feels true right now, with the massive caveat that championships are not played for in early January. Periodic reminder that UConn lost seven times in conference play last year.
To emerge as a true contender, MU must figure out a way to take it up a couple of levels by March. In that calculus, the most important outcome of this game is the long-term health of Chase Ross.
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I have said several times that I think Shaka is running this team/program more like an NBA team. The rotation in the lineup is definitely not traditional college style, imo. To be honest, I like it and think things change come tournament time. During the Kansas game there were four subs in the court in the first half and nobody was complaining after that game.
Disappointing loss and likely several more to come in BE play. There is a lot of time left in this season and my confidence in the team has not changed. This team, while not perfect, has a lot of weapons, plays very good D and ton of experience.
Every year we are on here talking about teams we do not want MU playing in March and this season I still think they are a team no one will want to play. There are things to clean up and not fouling a 3pt shot is pretty high on that list.
As for Kolek, it seems to me that there has been multiple times this year that the game plan looks like intentionally not having the ball in his hands. Again, if they can figure out how to make that work over the next two months it is an additional wrinkle to the team. To date, it has not worked, but 16 more games to figure it out.
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Shaka mentioned he needs to find five guys who will be lost in the fight like Oso and who give consistent energy and effort, and who do what it takes to win.
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I think the issue is the offense is showing that there isn't much there if Tyler isn't showing up. It feels a bit like everyone but Sean has had a regression this year.
People getting hooked on their press clippings
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since the Kansas game, Shaka's sub strategy is not working against decent teams. Hope your faith in the system pays off...
I have said several times that I think Shaka is running this team/program more like an NBA team. The rotation in the lineup is definitely not traditional college style, imo. To be honest, I like it and think things change come tournament time. During the Kansas game there were four subs in the court in the first half and nobody was complaining after that game.
Disappointing loss and likely several more to come in BE play. There is a lot of time left in this season and my confidence in the team has not changed. This team, while not perfect, has a lot of weapons, plays very good D and ton of experience.
Every year we are on here talking about teams we do not want MU playing in March and this season I still think they are a team no one will want to play. There are things to clean up and not fouling a 3pt shot is pretty high on that list.
As for Kolek, it seems to me that there has been multiple times this year that the game plan looks like intentionally not having the ball in his hands. Again, if they can figure out how to make that work over the next two months it is an additional wrinkle to the team. To date, it has not worked, but 16 more games to figure it out.
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Sean Jones looked hungry today. Everyone else just kinda going through the motions. Only 2 data points, but this team struggles on the big east road. Not looking good. Butler will be tough, they gave uconn a run this week
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I'd like to see Ben operate as a solo big for a bit more time. But it's pretty clear Shaka wants Oso as his security blanket on defense.
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Feels like a round of 32 team.
What round did we look last year?
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21
I think that is part of Kolek’s issue of late. I believe that he may be frustrated with guys and is letting them do their thing. For him to basically not have the ball in his hands or shoot in two their losses is strange to me. Today, he was a non factor and not entirely because of SH game plan. It looked to me that he took himself out to the mix on offense.
Point
I don’t agree with your point at all. It looked pretty good against Texas and second half against Creighton. I think everyone truly thought we were going to see 15+ Kansas like performances and now are disappointed.
Again, my point is I think Shaka is 100% more concerned with March than a BE title. IMO, the late run to win BE and BET probably hurt them in March more than helped them. This year, I think he is prepping for March like an NBA preps for the playoffs.
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Third disappearing act of the season from our All American PG today. (UCLA, WI, SH) Can't have it. 1.85 AST/TO on the road just not good enough, esp when he's not scoring.
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This team needs Kolek's hand on the wheel off the ball he gets disinterested and showcasing Kam at point hasn't born much fruit You may be correct about Shaka playing the long game
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I'd like to see Ben operate as a solo big for a bit more time. But it's pretty clear Shaka wants Oso as his security blanket on defense.
q
Gold is awful - has to be most disappointing player this year. If one of his wide open looks goes in it completely changes the game. If you're a big slow guy who is a liability on D but shoots 3s, but you don't shoot 3s....
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Goose - I sure hope Shaka and team can turn it on in March. Kolek should be reminded he was a AA last year and "pre-season" AA this year but still needs to play that way this season...
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q
Gold is awful - has to be most disappointing player this year. If one of his wide open looks goes in it completely changes the game. If you're a big slow guy who is a liability on D but shoots 3s, but you don't shoot 3s....
Gold was brutal today. Big disappointment so far.
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I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
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To anyone discounting Tyler Kolek as a big time player, I would bet a lot of money he will make you eat your words before the season is out. Similar to the Kansas team performance, Kolek has spoiled MU fans.
I get everyone focuses on the now, but l’ll agree that he has had 2-3 very subpar games this season. That would make 2-3 subpar performances in the last 51 games. I like that batting average. Yes, there are probably more than 2-3 but probably can count them on one hand. Funny part, almost every time ended in a loss. My gut says he probably was pretty responsible for the 40 wins during that stretch.
Bottom line, he is the best player on the team and most important player on the team, imo. I will be beyond shocked if he is not an important part of a nice number of big wins before he concludes his college career in several months.
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Gold is awful - has to be most disappointing player this year. If one of his wide open looks goes in it completely changes the game. If you're a big slow guy who is a liability on D but shoots 3s, but you don't shoot 3s....
Yeah, but he would likely get more of those looks if he wasn't in lineup with Oso and Sean most of the time.
I just think it's time to mix up a few things with the lineups. I'd like to see the numbers for that lineup with Kam, Oso, and the bench guys. Can't be great.
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I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
Why would an overreaction on Scoop surprise you?
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I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
They lost in the second round of the NCAA's.
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It worked for UConn last year.
But not preseason number 1 North Carolina.
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I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
I was thinking the same, but then I took a beat and remembered we're on MUScoop.com
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The ceiling is not the problem.... with the current state of play, the floor is the problem...
I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
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Why would an overreaction on Scoop surprise you?
Point taken but I’d think they’d built more equity than this. I expect this from complete know-nothing f’n morons like nolonger but not from the masses
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I’m honestly kind of surprised at the overreaction here. Like we’ve already seen what this team’s ceiling looks like this year not to mention what they accomplished last year.
Pre-season and even coming out of nonconference play, Marquette is/was a clear-cut media favorite to win the Big East and won it going 17-3 last year with 86% of returning minutes with the expectation that everyone got better. After what we saw against Kansas, Illinois, and Purdue, we looked elite.
You can understand fans are going to freak-out when you have two early road losses in conference play in games we probably shouldn't have lost.
IMO it's time to dial-back expectations. Perhaps the Big East is a little better than we thought and the "down" teams last year improved substantially. Butler and Seton Hall play really physical and will absolutely expose our weaknesses. It's also possible we miss OMax more than we expected.
I do hope Shaka gets it going to be in March form to make a run, otherwise having to look back at having an All-American, a draft pick point-center, and the rest of the talent on this team just winning a game or two will be a disappointment.
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Nickel
I firmly believe there are MU fans that thought the Kansas performance would be the norm after Maui. I still think MU is N.C. contender and thought they would lose 7 games this year. You don’t lose 7, of more, if they play like they did against Kansas.
All that matters is winning in March. This team, like all teams, can bow out the opening weekend in March, but I think they will be better prepared for March than any MU team in a very long time.
I will add, while I am in the Shaka fan club, he is not getting free pass from me. Today’s game was disappointing, but MSU last year was far more disappointing. Shaka has a lot to prove in March and I am betting he will have them well prepared.
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I don’t think it’s an overreaction anymore. It’s been a month and a half almost since we played a great game. We keep using the same excuses every loss but the team is who they are at this point. Kolek is a shell of himself from last year, Kam can’t shoot 3s like last year. Oso is completely hit or miss on his floater or any offense for that matter.
We aren’t some 50% 3 shooting team like everything things we are.
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Agree, Goose. I guess for me I wanted to see we could beat the KU’s and Purdue’s and we proved we could. That’s what I’ve taken away from the season so far even with a less than ideal start to conference play.
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You don’t think you can arguably learn more from losses than wins?
Nope
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Nope
I’d say you’re wrong
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This team will only go as far as Kolek takes them. Him not having the ball in hands more is baffling. Going back to MSU, he's disappeared from 4 of the last 16 games. Tons of season left, sure he'll be the leader he's shown, would love to see the chip on his shoulder get a little bigger again.
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I have said several times that I think Shaka is running this team/program more like an NBA team. The rotation in the lineup is definitely not traditional college style, imo. To be honest, I like it and think things change come tournament time. During the Kansas game there were four subs in the court in the first half and nobody was complaining after that game.
I think the worry here is how the NCAA Tournament works vs the NBA playoffs. In the past 25 tournaments, here's the breakdown by seed for NC winners:
1-Seed: 17 Champs
2-Seed: 3 Champs
3-Seed: 3 Champs
4-Seed: 1 Champ
7-Seed: 1 Champ
I'm not saying it's impossible to win a Tournament outside the top line, but when 68% of the champs are from the top-line, and 4 of the outliers are UConn (won as a 2, 3, 4, and 7), it's pretty much get to the 1-line or be UConn. In a one-and-done situation, it is imperative to have the best path possible if you want to win 6 games. Which means this time of year matters.
I'm guessing Marquette can lose one more game to feel confident of getting a 1-seed. Maybe two more games. But if they really want to be playing for a title on Shaka's birthday, that quest doesn't start in March. It started 2 months ago, and the performance of the first two months leaves them very little room for leeway now.
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Point taken but I’d think they’d built more equity than this. I expect this from complete know-nothing f’n morons like nolonger but not from the masses
Up until March, last season was pretty much a dream.
We've had some really amazing highs and some very frustrating losses so far. We haven't seen the consistency and growth we've hoped for. But we're still a really good team and our ceiling remains sky-high.
I'm still frustrated as sh*t about this loss but it's out of our control. We still control our own destiny. But when you're expecting perspective here after a game like that it's always going to be hard to find.
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Agree, Goose. I guess for me I wanted to see we could beat the KU’s and Purdue’s and we proved we could. That’s what I’ve taken away from the season so far even with a less than ideal start to conference play.
Issue is we won't get to play the KU's and Purdue's again if we can't beat the Seton Hall's in the first weekend. That's what sparks the overreactions and concern, imo.
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Howards
Playing a great games does not happen that often. I think last years Baylor game was an all time program performance and Kansas was pretty damn good. Not sure what you are looking for, but I think a bit unrealistic.
To go back to the last time we had this much hype around the program, the Al era had far more dud performances than great games. Granted they won most of the dud performances, but it was not flawless by any means. In most of the dud games it was a 2-5 minute run of excellence, possibly two runs, with plenty of mediocre play the remainder of the game.
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this team looks like a 5 or 6 seed at this point...
I think the worry here is how the NCAA Tournament works vs the NBA playoffs. In the past 25 tournaments, here's the breakdown by seed for NC winners:
1-Seed: 17 Champs
2-Seed: 3 Champs
3-Seed: 3 Champs
4-Seed: 1 Champ
7-Seed: 1 Champ
I'm not saying it's impossible to win a Tournament outside the top line, but when 68% of the champs are from the top-line, and 4 of the outliers are UConn (won as a 2, 3, 4, and 7), it's pretty much get to the 1-line or be UConn. In a one-and-done situation, it is imperative to have the best path possible if you want to win 6 games. Which means this time of year matters.
I'm guessing Marquette can lose one more game to feel confident of getting a 1-seed. Maybe two more games. But if they really want to be playing for a title on Shaka's birthday, that quest doesn't start in March. It started 2 months ago, and the performance of the first two months leaves them very little room for leeway now.
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this team looks like a 5 or 6 seed at this point...
Again, name 16 teams that have better resumes and are playing consistently at a high level?
Marquette may not be playing up to your or our expectations but you're completely ignoring the rest of college basketball with a comment like that.
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this team looks like a 5 or 6 seed at this point...
If the tourney started today, they are still a 2 or 3. Yes, the PC/SHU losses suck, but both are Q1 losses. The Illinois/Kansas wins are huge. And frankly, resumes fall off a cliff once you get to the end of the 2 line. If we go 13-7 in Big East play (our current kenpom projection) we probably still end up on the 4 line. But considering expectations, that has to be a disappointment.
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When the ball is not on TKos hands it is by design, it is a set play with him coming of a screen and getting the ball to either penetrate or dish to Oso.
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Brew
I did not predict 29-2 and a one seed. I thought, and still do, 23-7 and 2 or 3 seed. My belief has been from day one was that experience, depth and poise is why I feel they have a chance to play in FF. I never thought they would run the board to UConn or go 18-2 in the BE.
I have no idea how many wins will it take to win BE and really do not care. This team has talent, experience and a proven track record over 51 games and bumps in the road happen. They need to work out the kinks and see what happens in BE.
I have said it countless times, I do not think this will be the best team in the Shaka era. That said, they have the intangibles to go a long way.
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If the tourney started today, they are still a 2 or 3. Yes, the PC/SHU losses suck, but both are Q1 losses. The Illinois/Kansas wins are huge. And frankly, resumes fall off a cliff once you get to the end of the 2 line. If we go 13-7 in Big East play (our current kenpom projection) we probably still end up on the 4 line. But considering expectations, that has to be a disappointment.
Pie in the sky 1 seed dreams are over.
2 seed a loooooong shot but possible.
3 seed seems like the realistic goal rn if this team can find a way to pull out a few wins on the road.. a daunting task that seems like it would be a miracle for this team.
Anything below a 3 is a colossal disappointment imo
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sure, at the current point of time (not riding off the Kansas win), here are 15 playing better:
Purdue
Houston
Kansas
Duke
NC
Illinois
Arizona
UConn
Tennessee
Auburn
Wisconsin (which kills me)
Baylor
Iowa State
Kentucky
Oklahoma
Again, name 16 teams that have better resumes and are playing consistently at a high level?
Marquette may not be playing up to your or our expectations but you're completely ignoring the rest of college basketball with a comment like that.
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Kolek being MIA was the deciding factor in the game. Nobody took a bad 3 today.
I would say SH winning every ef% except for TOs clinched it
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sure, at the current point of time (not riding off the Kansas win), here are 15 playing better:
Purdue
Houston
Kansas
Duke
NC
Illinois
Arizona
UConn
Tennessee
Auburn
Wisconsin (which kills me)
Baylor
Iowa State
Kentucky
Oklahoma
LOL
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I would say SH winning every ef% except for TOs clinched it
Yep. MU forced 22 turnovers and gave up 78 points.
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name one of those teams MU would beat playing at their current performance level?
LOL
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Fan94
I am not sure that his disappearing act against SH and UW was unintentional. Other guys have to step up. GoldenEagle posted how MU might be missing that one guy to be a great time. There is little chance of 4-8 player stepping up on a regular basis if Kolek is carrying the team on his back.
Anyone that thinks Kolek is not a big game player is crazy, imo. He didn’t run away from the ball in those games, other guys controlled the ball.
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Yep. MU forced 22 turnovers and gave up 78 points.
SH had 22 turnovers and MU had 14 steals, and they lost. 14 steals.....
SH had 43 rebounds, MU had 25. Again another liability on the boards for MU.
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sure, at the current point of time (not riding off the Kansas win), here are 15 playing better:
Purdue
Houston
Kansas
Duke
NC
Illinois
Arizona
UConn
Tennessee
Auburn
Wisconsin (which kills me)
Baylor
Iowa State
Kentucky
Oklahoma
But talking resumes, all the teams crossed out don't compare to Marquette's current resume. I know it's easy to mope, but seriously, Auburn, Iowa State, and Oklahoma have beaten no one. Duke, Auburn, and Kentucky all have pretty bad losses on their resumes. And Baylor's entire resume is a neutral court win over Auburn that would be our third best win. Not to mention NC, Illinois, and Wisconsin would be in the conversation with us when seeding came up, but at most one of them might actually be ahead of us (maybe Bucky).
Even with today's loss, we're probably a 2, at worst a 3.
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name one of those teams MU would beat playing at their current performance level?
Home, away or neutral?
It's comical that you're completely ignoring the issues most of those other teams have.
Based on your comments today, you're also the type of guy that would have said Oso was a wasted scholarship as a freshman.
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But talking resumes, all the teams crossed out don't compare to Marquette's current resume. I know it's easy to mope, but seriously, Auburn, Iowa State, and Oklahoma have beaten no one. Duke, Auburn, and Kentucky all have pretty bad losses on their resumes. And Baylor's entire resume is a neutral court win over Auburn that would be our third best win. Not to mention NC, Illinois, and Wisconsin would be in the conversation with us when seeding came up, but at most one of them might actually be ahead of us (maybe Bucky).
Even with today's loss, we're probably a 2, at worst a 3.
+1
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I'd like to see Ben operate as a solo big for a bit more time. But it's pretty clear Shaka wants Oso as his security blanket on defense.
There are times when it looks like Ben couldn’t defend a parking meter.
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Vander
Why even debate that post?
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Vander
Why even debate that post?
Point taken.
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I think Seton Hall may have staying power and finish top 4 in BE. They are senior and 5th year laden and have a lot of experience. Already have beaten us, UConn and Providence.
Seton Hall's season might have turned with the win at Missouri.
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Goose - my point is trajectory. This team is not looking better than November (far worse) and has not showed up in 3 road games.... at the current time, this is not a well performing team. They have the talent to regain the mojo when they beat Kansas, Illinois, and Texas. But something is wrong right now...
Vander
Why even debate that post?
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I’d say you’re wrong
Whatever.
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It's time to explore the transfer portal. Other teams transfers have come up big against us.
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Fan94
I am not sure that his disappearing act against SH and UW was unintentional. Other guys have to step up. GoldenEagle posted how MU might be missing that one guy to be a great time. There is little chance of 4-8 player stepping up on a regular basis if Kolek is carrying the team on his back.
Anyone that thinks Kolek is not a big game player is crazy, imo. He didn’t run away from the ball in those games, other guys controlled the ball.
Definitely agree that others need to step up from time to time, and they have as indicated by having 5 different SOTGs in 11 wins. I just don't see the benefit of Kolek not controlling the ball...at all times. Isn't that point of having an AA PG? Shouldn't he dictate where (and to whom) the ball goes? Something seems to happen where he begins forcing (hence the much lower A/TO ratio in those games) or he loses focus or some combination of both when he's in more a SG role.
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This team is so dependent on high energy plays and momentum. It’s so challenging to recreate that on the road.
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Point
November spoiled everyone. They beat a very good Illinois team, Kansas, battled Purdue hard and smoked Texas. They are not good enough to play at that level for 35 games, not are they bad as they looked against UW and Providence.
Seriously, they did not play well today but hardly an all time poor Shaka era performance. To be fair, I have not watched the last five games played by the 15 teams you noted to make a comparison. If you have, you have too much time on your hands.
FYI— that is coming from a 60y who is still in his pajamas.
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A resume is a complete body of work.
Marquettes resume is fantastic, and will be all year, unless something drastic happens.
That’s different than single game performance or the fantastic point brew makes on the importance of getting a top seed.
A 2 or 3 seed is virtually a lock outside of a large collapse, this team is too good to not get that. Heck they almost won on the road with their two all BE guards being brutal.
The 1 seed is fleeting though, and that matters.
So, the point of taking Tyler off the ball and conserving has merit, I was one of the first to mention that it seemed by design, but you can’t keep taking Ls and dropping seeds for a bigger scheme. Gotta change it up a bit.
Today was funny- I would’ve argued the starters should play 37 mins + after the first 10, Shaka sat a bunch of em like he usually does, and they were never the same after that.
Then I would’ve argued that they should’ve sat a bunch late and they didn’t.
It is what it is, gotta turn it around at home, where Marquette has been king
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SH had 22 turnovers and MU had 14 steals, and they lost. 14 steals.....
SH had 43 rebounds, MU had 25. Again another liability on the boards for MU.
That is pretty incredible. One would think having 14 steals puts you in the drivers seat. The shooting hopefully improves and it sure would be nice not having to dig out of a hole every so often.
Rebounding is brutal. Ben with 1? Shaka might want to the consider the portal for a center next year.
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Unrealistic expectations. Everything went right last year. No injuries was a big deal. Close games went our way. Looks like 21-10 is more realistic. Go 2-1 in BET. 6 of 7 seed. Maybe will be back in stride by tourney time. Best scenario would be Sweet 16.
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94
What is your realistic goal for this team? Mine is a minimum of E8. IMO, the more they work on different lineups and schemes, the better they will be in March. As a fan, I want to see Kolek running the show 35 minutes every game. That said, I do not think the same 8 guys are going to have major improvement doing the same thing as last year. Best chance for an improved team is getting 1-3 other guys to be consistent contributors. 5 SOTG is great, but none of the non starters have been consistent yet.
Again, as a fan I have little interest in watching Sean Jones dribble into the lane on every possession with Kolek 30 feet from the basket. However, if that makes Sean Jones better in March I am all in.
IMO, Shaka has never had more pressure for winning in March. He, and his team, rejuvenated a fanbase and a lot of eyes on the fellas and the heat is on. He chose not to replace Omax and he did not have his guys shy away from talking about winning a N.C. this year. I 100% believe he is getting the guys ready for March and not obsessing over a BE title.
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For those of you that want TK "running the show" more often, what do you do with Sean Jones?
He is not a SG and is best served with the ball in his hands. You reduce his effectiveness by having him off the ball.
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If you told me we would hold Bediako to 3 offensive rebounds, win the turnover battle 22-10, and play at the pace we want, I would've expected a 15-20 point win. This is simply a bad loss to a bad team. So much wrong with today. Kam and Tyler both just not showing up. Not having an answer for them inside. Not being able to create our own shots inside when that's our specialty. Giving up the two run-outs after tying the game that proved to the the margin difference between a win and loss. We just didn't seem well-prepared to beat an inferior opponent on the road.
I've been all in on this team being a national title contender, but we just don't look like it right now. The offense is a pale shadow of what last year was and the defensive improvement isn't enough to offset it. Not sure our ceiling, but at the moment it feels more like the second weekend than competing to cut down nets in the third.
Seton Hall isn't a bad team lol. A team Marquette should beat. Sure.
We miss OMax on offense FAR more than we do on defense as far as the eye can tell.
He was so good at getting to the rim and hitting the open shots. 13 points a night shooting 63% inside the arc hasn't been replicated.
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Seton Hall isn't a bad team lol. A team Marquette should beat. Sure.
We miss OMax on offense FAR more than we do on defense as far as the eye can tell.
He was so good at getting to the rim and hitting the open shots. 13 points a night shooting 63% inside the arc hasn't been replicated.
Omax would have shut down Richmond and we would have won this game with him. That is how we miss Omax on defense. Might now show up in the metrics but it is absolutely the case.
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Omax would have shut down Richmond and we would have won this game with him. That is how we miss Omax on defense. Might now show up in the metrics but it is absolutely the case.
Nope. Chase Ross would have though.
OMax didn't even guard Richmond last year. Stevie and Chase did.
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Seriously, the Omax fan club is coming out? Come on guys, be consistent. I don’t remember a first round NBA pick from MU ever get more criticism than Omax did last year. Honestly, he got more criticism than the rest of the team combined on here.
Is Omax missed, I believe so. That said he was not missed in Maui. He played a big role in their success last season but he wouldn’t have made the Kansas game a bigger margin of victory.
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Unrealistic expectations. Everything went right last year. No injuries was a big deal. Close games went our way. Looks like 21-10 is more realistic. Go 2-1 in BET. 6 of 7 seed. Maybe will be back in stride by tourney time. Best scenario would be Sweet 16.
LOL
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Seton Hall isn't a bad team lol. A team Marquette should beat. Sure.
We miss OMax on offense FAR more than we do on defense as far as the eye can tell.
He was so good at getting to the rim and hitting the open shots. 13 points a night shooting 63% inside the arc hasn't been replicated.
He hit 34% from 3 last year. Solid but nothing special. So no, we're not missing his marksmanship. His defense, his length, running the floor, etc. Absolutely. Not why we lost today.
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12. Subbing out our starters while they're rolling up 10
Agreed. Very bad decision.
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Seriously, the Omax fan club is coming out? Come on guys, be consistent. I don’t remember a first round NBA pick from MU ever get more criticism than Omax did last year. Honestly, he got more criticism than the rest of the team combined on here.
Is Omax missed, I believe so. That said he was not missed in Maui. He played a big role in their success last season but he wouldn’t have made the Kansas game a bigger margin of victory.
We’re missing a guy who can score in transition and secondary break situations. Teams are really doing a good job eliminating pick and roll towards the hoop and switching on all screens. Thats negating a lot of our quick ball movement. We need those “easy” buckets when our half court o is stalling. We’re missing that guy.
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He hit 34% from 3 last year. Solid but nothing special. So no, we're not missing his marksmanship. His defense, his length, running the floor, etc. Absolutely. Not why we lost today.
What was his % on open jumpshots? He poured in 13 points a night and got to the basket relentlessly.
Offense is our issue with this team, not defense.
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FYI— that is coming from a 60y who is still in his pajamas.
Atta boy, Goose
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Seton Hall isn't a bad team lol. A team Marquette should beat. Sure.
A team with losses to USC, Iowa, and Rutgers? That just got blown out by Xavier? They certainly aren't a good one. Bubble team at best, and that's including today's win.
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What was his % on open jumpshots? He poured in 13 points a night and got to the basket relentlessly.
Offense is our issue with this team, not defense.
He did not get to the basket “relentlessly”, Muggs.
I don’t know what his % was but he wasn’t a guy who was creating his own 3 point shot off the dribble. He was a solid shooter from distance. Trying to make it something else is delusional. We absolutely miss his athleticism on the wing in transition.
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And his lock down D. He was born to guard Richmond.
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with the showing of first half Creighton, Providence, and SH today, "A 2 or 3 seed" is not virtually a lock
A team with losses to USC, Iowa, and Rutgers? That just got blown out by Xavier? They certainly aren't a good one. Bubble team at best, and that's including today's win.
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I don't know that O-Max is the answer, but the offense is the problem. Four of our five worst adjusted offensive ratings came in the past four games (Wisconsin was the other). Last year we had 5 games all season long below 50% from two, today was our 4th such game this year and we're not even halfway through. We have a more experienced shooting team but are worse from three despite generating more open looks. The offense isn't nearly good enough to get to the heights the players talked about in September and October.
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A team with losses to USC, Iowa, and Rutgers? That just got blown out by Xavier? They certainly aren't a good one. Bubble team at best, and that's including today's win.
FAU is coming off a Final Four and has a Big win against Arizona.
They are losing to Charlotte and already have losses to Bryant and FGCU. Are they also a bad team?
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FAU is coming off a Final Four and has a Big win against Arizona.
They are losing to Charlotte and already have losses to Bryant and FGCU. Are they also a bad team?
They're better than SHU, but probably a middle-seed NCAA team. Somewhere in the 5-7 range.
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Not a great team or a 5th ranked team to start the season like MU.
FAU is coming off a Final Four and has a Big win against Arizona.
They are losing to Charlotte and already have losses to Bryant and FGCU. Are they also a bad team?
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Over the last 4 games, Kam is 7-32 from 3. Honestly, from what I can recall, most of those were really good shots. He's got to find and it soon. We're simply not the same team when he's not making shots.
Tyler disappeared today. He's not a machine so these things happen and I would expect a big bounce back on Wednesday.
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Early season losses to a team full of transfers is not that surprising. As your team starts to gel, you beat teams Uconn, MU and PC.
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Over the last 4 games, Kam is 7-32 from 3. Honestly, from what I can recall, most of those were really good shots. He's got to find and it soon. We're simply not the same team when he's not making shots.
Tyler disappeared today. He's not a machine so these things happen and I would expect a big bounce back on Wednesday.
Those two things are probably the biggest factors.
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panda
Of course Omax is missed and I agree with you. Just think it is funny that roughly a year ago MU played at SH and the announcers stated that a good number of NBA scouts were at the game to watch Omax and much of scoop got a big laugh out it. Now he is missed.
I said last May that I believed that if Omax was not replaced that Shaka did not believe they were a bonafide contender. I will say now, Omax should have been replaced, but seeing the ceiling of this team I still think they are a contender. Basically, Shaka could end up being right.
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You are not wrong about the perception of Omax a season ago. Comically underappreciated. When he went in the portal and stayed, I said something like....paraphrasing.....
What is going to get him drafted is what MU is going to miss next year.
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You are not wrong about the perception of Omax a season ago. Comically underappreciated. When he went in the portal draft and stayed, I said something like....paraphrasing.....
What is going to get him drafted is what MU is going to miss next year.
;)
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Ahhhhhhhh, crape. Wait, he transferred to the NBA. Yeah! That's it!
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A team with losses to USC, Iowa, and Rutgers? That just got blown out by Xavier? They certainly aren't a good one. Bubble team at best, and that's including today's win.
Seton Hall player their A+ game today. Sometimes you just get beat, and that was today's story. So what if they just got blown out by Xavier? They just blew out UCONN by 15 at home too.
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panda
Of course Omax is missed and I agree with you. Just think it is funny that roughly a year ago MU played at SH and the announcers stated that a good number of NBA scouts were at the game to watch Omax and much of scoop got a big laugh out it. Now he is missed.
I said last May that I believed that if Omax was not replaced that Shaka did not believe they were a bonafide contender. I will say now, Omax should have been replaced, but seeing the ceiling of this team I still think they are a contender. Basically, Shaka could end up being right.
We lose a player and don’t replace him with a similar skill set. Offense sputters for the reasons I mentioned above. I thought the combo of Joplin’s shooting/Ross’ potential to be a direct replacement would add a different dynamic, but it’s simply put more stress on Kolek/jones/oso who have not made up for the loss.
This team needs to figure out a more consistent way to score if they’re going to win games on the road and it’s not going to be volume 3’s.
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Seton Hall, Providence, and Wisconsin all had their A games... what's the common factor?
Seton Hall player their A+ game today. Sometimes you just get beat, and that was today's story. So what if they just got blown out by Xavier? They just blew out UCONN by 15 at home too.
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Can't shoot. Late on close outs. Soft on the boards. Tyler only going left into the gap containment. Adjust or die.
Now, just one Big East loss away from matching all of last season. The opposing coaches have adapted. Time for Shaka to counter as to keep doing what you are doing while expecting different results is maddening and insanity.
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Seton Hall, Providence, and Wisconsin all had their A games... what's the common factor?
I feel our shooting will come around - the bigger issue is these teams have neutralized Kolek as noted in the bolded below. That being said, its tough to win on the road in the Big East and Seton Hall played REALLY well today, including a few circus shots that went in, Dawes shooting well above his averages and their 2 non-factor freshman kicking in 10 points on 5 of 5 shooting.
Can't shoot. Late on close outs. Soft on the boards. Tyler only going left into the gap containment. Adjust or die.
Now, just one Big East loss away from matching all of last season. The opposing coaches have adapted. Time for Shaka to counter as to keep doing what you are doing while expecting different results is maddening and insanity.
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Ahhhhhhhh, crape. Wait, he transferred to the NBA. Yeah! That's it!
Dallas offered pretty good NIL money
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Our offense this year is consistently inconsistent. And that is why we lost the games we lost. It is not fixed yet. until it is, we are going to have these kinds of games.
And Kolek has more pressure on h8m… our 2 point % is down because teams have cut off the Oso/ Kolek p and r, and they are jamming the passing lanes so each pass Kolek makes this year is harder. Now . . . What do we do about it? That we will see. . .
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12. Subbing out our starters while they're rolling up 10
Today, you’re right but it has been working. Have to admit, Shaka has a lot of good points but he has not demonstrated that he is a great in-game coach.
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Seton Hall, Providence, and Wisconsin all had their A games... what's the common factor?
Your panic game is strong in this thread
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I feel our shooting will come around - the bigger issue is these teams have neutralized Kolek as noted in the bolded below. That being said, its tough to win on the road in the Big East and Seton Hall played REALLY well today, including a few circus shots that went in, Dawes shooting well above his averages and their 2 non-factor freshman kicking in 10 points on 5 of 5 shooting.
I wouldn't call 22 TOs playing really well, but to each their own. As a coach I would be upset with 22 TOs
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The good thing is Stevie and Sean were each 100% on 3s today!
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The good thing is Stevie and Sean were each 100% on 3s today!
Nope. Stevie was 1-2.
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Nope. Stevie was 1-2.
Ok. I missed that. 50% from three…. Yeah!
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Seton Hall, Providence, and Wisconsin all had their A games... what's the common factor?
I don't think that is remotely true.
UW had 1 guy go nuclear against us, they can be a lot better than they were. Seton Hall also can be better than they were today and they were against UCONN. Providence maybe played their beat all around game.
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94
What is your realistic goal for this team? Mine is a minimum of E8. IMO, the more they work on different lineups and schemes, the better they will be in March. As a fan, I want to see Kolek running the show 35 minutes every game. That said, I do not think the same 8 guys are going to have major improvement doing the same thing as last year. Best chance for an improved team is getting 1-3 other guys to be consistent contributors. 5 SOTG is great, but none of the non starters have been consistent yet.
Again, as a fan I have little interest in watching Sean Jones dribble into the lane on every possession with Kolek 30 feet from the basket. However, if that makes Sean Jones better in March I am all in.
IMO, Shaka has never had more pressure for winning in March. He, and his team, rejuvenated a fanbase and a lot of eyes on the fellas and the heat is on. He chose not to replace Omax and he did not have his guys shy away from talking about winning a N.C. this year. I 100% believe he is getting the guys ready for March and not obsessing over a BE title.
I agree that a minimum expectation would be E8.
If we believe Shaka is building for March now by playing TK off the ball more with SJ as PG and it comes to fruition, that's great and ideal. With my 0 minutes of career coaching experience, I would think this would be the season to play a limited rotation (8 max) with spot minutes for the Freshmen as the season progresses. With Chase going down a FR (likely Tre) will get an opportunity to grow.
SJ has already shown enough that he can be more than capable of playing some big minutes, we would be in much worse shape if he didn't hit big 3s against UCLA, IL and CU. I trust Shaka to do what's best for the long run. We just can't afford for TK to go MIA for entire games and, so far, he's done it 3 times in 15. He, and the team, is top 5 when he's in attack mode. If Shaka is running these other lineups/schemes to spell him while still keeping him on the floor, fine.
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I agree, I am in panic mode as this team is not very good currently. At current pace, they are a .500 team in conference play.
Your panic game is strong in this thread
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I agree, I am in panic mode as this team is not very good currently. At current pace, they are a .500 team in conference play.
Well, by the math, yeah. 2-2 is .500, so at their current pace…I’m willing to bet better than that if you’d like.
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I agree, I am in panic mode as this team is not very good currently. At current pace, they are a .500 team in conference play.
Get some help, dude.
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I agree, I am in panic mode as this team is not very good currently. At current pace, they are a .500 team in conference play.
So a 7 seed?
They lost to one of those in the 2nd round last year.
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Well, by the math, yeah. 2-2 is .500, so at their current pace…I’m willing to bet better than that if you’d like.
We beat Illinois early on, but otherwise have looked really, really poor on the road. Need to get something going away from home before I show more confidence.
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Get some help, dude.
This team is no where near at national contender, let alone a top 10 team. I fully expect to be out of the top 15 on Monday. If you thought we were winning a natty this year you would be in full panic mode… it ain’t happening.
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Who is this beating on the road other than GT and DePaul?
Will they beat UConn, Nova at home?
Get some help, dude.
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This team is no where near at national contender, let alone a top 10 team. I fully expect to be out of the top 15 on Monday. If you thought we were winning a natty this year you would be in full panic mode… it ain’t happening.
Comprehension is important.
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Who is this beating on the road other than GT and DePaul?
Will they beat UConn, Nova at home?
UConn - probably not.
The Nova that has a number of rough losses? Of course they could win that game.
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Point
You know that I like you as a person, but you are no longer a serious poster on MU basketball, imo. Not that I really care, but it looks like you have more posts MU basketball related today than the previous several weeks combined. Will add, you did throw out a number of digs during the Creighton game.
Again, I really could not care less if you want to vent, rile folks up or trying to be funny, but I cannot take your posts seriously. Enjoy the rest of the season!!
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UConn - probably not.
The Nova that has a number of rough losses? Of course they could win that game.
Why? You people are nuts. Go cry into a pillow somewhere.
Marquette handled Kansas who beat UConn.
Marquette can beat every team in America.
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They can also lose to just about anyone.
And that's the issue. The competitive maturity Shaka talked about a bunch last year seems to have escaped them lately.
There's no way they should lose that game being +22 in points off turnovers and only -1 on second chance points. But when you give up a goddamn layup line for a half, well, you lose.
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Why? You people are nuts. Go cry into a pillow somewhere.
Marquette handled Kansas who beat UConn.
Marquette can beat every team in America.
Except teams that start with W, are located in rhode island or rhyme with ball.
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Why? You people are nuts. Go cry into a pillow somewhere.
Marquette handled Kansas who beat UConn.
Marquette can beat every team in America.
No sh*t.
Feel free to scroll through my posts from after the game today, Biff.
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q
Gold is awful - has to be most disappointing player this year. If one of his wide open looks goes in it completely changes the game. If you're a big slow guy who is a liability on D but shoots 3s, but you don't shoot 3s....
yes, Gold is. i’d give Amadou a run. See what his athleticism and leap ability can offer.
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Howards
Playing a great games does not happen that often. I think last years Baylor game was an all time program performance and Kansas was pretty damn good. Not sure what you are looking for, but I think a bit unrealistic.
To go back to the last time we had this much hype around the program, the Al era had far more dud performances than great games. Granted they won most of the dud performances, but it was not flawless by any means. In most of the dud games it was a 2-5 minute run of excellence, possibly two runs, with plenty of mediocre play the remainder of the game.
I agree with the comment that Al's teams seldom blew a quality opponent out. That's what I remember. Most games were always a battle. Remind me what our seed was in '77. :)
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wiscwarrior
Al’s teams often had close games against mid level teams as well. As I noted, they won those games but it was seldom a masterpiece you talked about for days. It was more like the 9-0 run MU had today, quick burst and game over. Another big difference, MU has trailed in a lot of games the past two years, back in the day there was not much digging out of holes.
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For those of you that want TK "running the show" more often, what do you do with Sean Jones?
He is not a SG and is best served with the ball in his hands. You reduce his effectiveness by having him off the ball.
Leave him in the game when he’s playing well and changing the trajectory of the game.
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Get some help, dude.
If ever there was someone who should take their own advice Biff
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Brew
I did not predict 29-2 and a one seed. I thought, and still do, 23-7 and 2 or 3 seed. My belief has been from day one was that experience, depth and poise is why I feel they have a chance to play in FF. I never thought they would run the board to UConn or go 18-2 in the BE.
I have no idea how many wins will it take to win BE and really do not care. This team has talent, experience and a proven track record over 51 games and bumps in the road happen. They need to work out the kinks and see what happens in BE.
I have said it countless times, I do not think this will be the best team in the Shaka era. That said, they have the intangibles to go a long way.
…I think we are learning that the loss of Omax to the pros is bigly. More-so than we probably thought through November. However and combined with our underwhelming board work, I don’t see a lengthy March run unless we get a very favorable matchup. I feel like the WI game is the scouting tape our opponents watch to strategize against us.
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If ever there was someone who should take their own advice Biff
Rent-free.
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Viper
Just curious, what part of Omax game is being missed bigly? The falling down, his inability to block a shot, butter fingers or something else?
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MU has room for improvement .
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I agree with the comment that Al's teams seldom blew a quality opponent out. That's what I remember. Most games were always a battle. Remind me what our seed was in '77. :)
Not sure if this is meant to be a serious question but there was no seeding in 1977.
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Viper
Just curious, what part of Omax game is being missed bigly? The falling down, his inability to block a shot, butter fingers or something else?
Cmon. They miss his ability to guard and switch on the perimeter. And he was enough of a threat offensively that they just haven’t replaced.
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Cmon. They miss his ability to guard and switch on the perimeter. And he was enough of a threat offensively that they just haven’t replaced.
Especially in transition.
Also him being at the top of the zone press was a big disruption that they haven't really been able to replicate.
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Viper
Just curious, what part of Omax game is being missed bigly? The falling down, his inability to block a shot, butter fingers or something else?
falling down etc etc but least you forget Omax was a NBA 1st rd draft choice! For me, I felt Omax played aggressive D consistently, an aggressive D I don’t see from Jop. Omax with his herky jerkyness combined with his wingspan created a disruption. AND, Omax allowed Shaka to bring Jop off the bench, which imo suits the team better. Our rebounding wasn’t great last season, this is true. But the rebounding woes combined with the lack of Omax intangibles and it’s definitely tougher sledding in conference play so far this season.
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Especially in transition.
Also him being at the top of the zone press was a big disruption that they haven't really been able to replicate.
Transition is huge. He was great at finishing with pace. Also, even if he didn’t score in trans, really good at getting down the floor, behind the defense and creating chaos on the break. No one this year can do that.
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Sultan
I loved Omax, I know what he brought to the table for MU. That said, he actually is missed a little less than I expected him to be. In a loss, folks say they miss him and he probably was missed that day. I did not hear one person say after Kansas, “if we would have Omax, we would have win by 30”.
Viper
You will be hard pressed to find someone that backed Omax more than me and that goes back to his first season at MU. I do agree with everything you said. Spot on what his value was to the team.
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I think the issue is the offense is showing that there isn't much there if Tyler isn't showing up. It feels a bit like everyone but Sean has had a regression this year.
And Sean was in a deep regression until the second half of the last game. And didn't show up until the second half today
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Goose - I have never proclaimed or declared to be a "knower of ball" so my posts should never be taken seriously. I am, however, disappointed in this teams performance since the ND game.
Point
You know that I like you as a person, but you are no longer a serious poster on MU basketball, imo. Not that I really care, but it looks like you have more posts MU basketball related today than the previous several weeks combined. Will add, you did throw out a number of digs during the Creighton game.
Again, I really could not care less if you want to vent, rile folks up or trying to be funny, but I cannot take your posts seriously. Enjoy the rest of the season!!
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Why? You people are nuts. Go cry into a pillow somewhere.
Marquette handled Kansas who beat UConn.
Marquette can beat every team in America.
Agreed. Such a weirdly losers attitude. Do you have any faith in this team. Jeez
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Point
Yes, you have pointed out that you are not a “knower of ball” on several occasions and you have never been declared one and I will keep that in mind.
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Point
Yes, you have pointed out that you are not a “knower of ball” on several occasions and you have never been declared one and I will keep that in mind.
I thought he was a wizard ?
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Viper
Just curious, what part of Omax game is being missed bigly? The falling down, his inability to block a shot, butter fingers or something else?
Yesterday there were two or three SHU possessions in a row where Richmond posted up Stevie and scored easily. That likely doesn’t happen if Omax is guarding him. The ability to make life difficult for the other team’s primary offensive weapon is what Omax provided that we really miss.
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Stevie had done a pretty good job on Richmond's drives. The post ups were just a question of 4 inches and 30 lbs. Physics won. Smart move by Seton Hall.
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Stevie had done a pretty good job on Richmond's drives. The post ups were just a question of 4 inches and 30 lbs. Physics won. Smart move by Seton Hall.
Yeah, agreed. A move they couldn’t have made last year to the same effect
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That was then.
With Chase out, a small team got smaller.
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That was then.
With Chase out, a small team got smaller.
And a weak, unproductive bench gets worse.
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The difference was all the bunnies Oso missed at the rim. He could have had 80 points.
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The difference was all the bunnies Oso missed at the rim. He could have had 80 points.
...and as pointed out, fouling 3pt shots that had no chance of falling in. They were up for that game we were not.
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The difference was all the bunnies Oso missed at the rim. He could have had 80 points.
We had exactly one player who was excellent yesterday, and now the loss is his fault. Oso was 9-for-14, and two of the misses were on his push shot. I guess he should have scored when he was being mauled so hard that the refs actually called fouls?
If you meant this to be in teal and I just missed it, please ignore that paragraph and replace it with, simply, "Well done."
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Yeah the problem is that our backcourt, especially the back ups, cannot shoot consistently enough. I'll say it again - the offense continues to generate good looks.
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Sultan
I would be concerned if they did not have more open shots than the opponent. They literally have more open shots than every opponent and by a wide margin.
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I thought he was a wizard ?
That would be TAMU
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hey, this is tough to swallow, but either we are onboard or not. trust the process. we've already seen what this team is capable of doing. shaka is the type of coach who builds upon everything, win or lose. i love goose' approach! shaka and team's eye's are on the bigger prize
i've said it before-it's a long season-a successful season is dependent on so many things coming together. injuries, fatigue, personal and personnel issues; successes and failures all need to be addressed before and during the season. this is when it is crucial for some under the radar player rise to the occasion and fill in some loose ends
with all that being said-amadou needs to see some PT-he is all ball of energy and chomping at the bit
as many of you remember, 1977-we didn't exactly storm into the big dance. as a matter of fact, we almost played our way out of it. the last 8 games of the season-we lost 4 of them limping in to the tournament 20-7-we all know what happened next
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wiscwarrior
Al’s teams often had close games against mid level teams as well. As I noted, they won those games but it was seldom a masterpiece you talked about for days. It was more like the 9-0 run MU had today, quick burst and game over. Another big difference, MU has trailed in a lot of games the past two years, back in the day there was not much digging out of holes.
In '71 IRRC we were down more than 20 points against Detroit at their place and came back to win to get our undefeated season. I find it quite absurd to have any meaningful comparisons to Al's teams to Shaka's teams. The game is different, no shot clock and no 3pt shot, a team could essentially hold the ball forever on offense (4 corners offense); plus the P5 conferences only had 8-10 teams; most schools were independent and seldom played any team twice in the same season.
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warrior69
There is zero comparison between the two era’s. Was simply saying that good teams do not always play great basketball. I used the Al era because this is a MU basketball forum. Yes, you are correct MU did have a nice number of comebacks, but led far more than they trailed, especially to lesser teams.
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Not sure if this is meant to be a serious question but there was no seeding in 1977.
I wondered about that, but point still remains. I don't think they would have been a high seed.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=PRgI2tIsJ_CShyFr&v=weS9N2uDMdM&feature=youtu.be
Shaka calling out commitment to win in practice, not playing in the moment, not playing good defense.
Chase's arm popped out, popped back in.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=PRgI2tIsJ_CShyFr&v=weS9N2uDMdM&feature=youtu.be
Shaka calling out commitment to win in practice, not playing in the moment, not playing good defense.
Chase's arm popped out, popped back in.
Practice? Huh.
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Not everyone practices with the same commitment to winning as Oso.
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Not everyone practices with the same commitment to winning as Oso.
I was told here once by someone practice doesn’t matter
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I get that a scooper would say that. Coaches consistently think it does.
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I get that a scooper would say that. Coaches consistently think it does.
Coaches think they know more than we scoopers do.
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I was told here once by someone practice doesn’t matter
https://youtu.be/eGDBR2L5kzI?si=ykUfArD_2Hbeo2d3
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I was told here once by someone practice doesn’t matter
Iverson is on scoop?
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Iverson is on scoop?
Yes, see above
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This team is no where near at national contender, let alone a top 10 team. I fully expect to be out of the top 15 on Monday.
So close. Only off by 5 spots and 311 votes
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Honestly, this one didn't bother me as much as Providence or Bucky. Halls a worse team for sure but I think we played much better than those two losses. Hall made some shots they normally dont. Kolek won't be this bad again this season. Kam is too good a shooter to stay in this slump. Any one of those three things change and we win this one easily.
Biggest concern besides chases shoulder is that our normally elite defense failed for only the second time this season. Shaka was pissed postgame. Im confident that will be properly addressed.
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Honestly, this one didn't bother me as much as Providence or Bucky. Halls a worse team for sure but I think we played much better than those two losses. Hall made some shots they normally dont. Kolek won't be this bad again this season. Kam is too good a shooter to stay in this slump. Any one of those three things change and we win this one easily.
Biggest concern besides chases shoulder is that our normally elite defense failed for only the second time this season. Shaka was pissed postgame. Im confident that will be properly addressed.
You saying they simply have to play better? You sound like a coach. I like it. And I think you are right.
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Honestly, this one didn't bother me as much as Providence or Bucky. Halls a worse team for sure but I think we played much better than those two losses. Hall made some shots they normally dont. Kolek won't be this bad again this season. Kam is too good a shooter to stay in this slump. Any one of those three things change and we win this one easily.
Biggest concern besides chases shoulder is that our normally elite defense failed for only the second time this season. Shaka was pissed postgame. Im confident that will be properly addressed.
No stat guy here, but this seem to happen quite a bit and is magnified when we lose.
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No stat guy here, but this seem to happen quite a bit and is magnified when we lose.
It happens to every team ... and when it happens, fans think it only happens to their team.
You don't think Creighton fans were bemoaning that Sean and Stevie combined to hit five 3s against them? You don't think UCLA fans were lamenting Sean hitting the winning 3? "I could see if it was Kam Jones, but not the little Jones - he's shooting like 1%!"