Congrats to the Friars.
Shaka looking like Wojo tonight.
Not sure much of the in game is on Shaka. This was just guys simply playing stupid for 40 min.
We are seeing the potential flaws that we all have worried about in Shakas philosphy when things are not near perfect like last year. Time to use the portal like everyone else when you clearly need other options.
And as Ive said for weeks now. The whole "everyone has a green light" thing falls on Shaka. Its simply bad philosphy to give 5 guys on this team a green light.
Hes gotta come up with other ways for us to score because against any defense with a pulse we are screwed. TK making a delicious kick out to a open Gold(ok shooter) who makes the extra pass to Chase(cant shoot) to Sean(really cant shoot) looks pretty until ultimately the shot is bricked. ANd it happens over and over and over.
Very embarrassing and upsetting. keep trying kid myself thinking this is a top 6 team but garbage like this makes it tough.worse part is we are the better team. f uc providence they suck. Hate playing here. Was hoping the badger game would be the worst performance of the year but this one edges it out. Just horrendous basketball. Still.....as bad is this was wouldn't be surprised if we win 7 or 8 straight after this.
Two true road games, were dominated in both. Concerning.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 19, 2023, 09:39:54 PM
Two true road games, were dominated in both. Concerning.
We beat Illinois at Illinois.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on December 19, 2023, 09:41:00 PM
We beat Illinois at Illinois.
These last two have been so bad, forgot that one.
Still 2/3 non competitive road games is concerning.
Currently have one scholarship available for next year. Shaka can't put it in his pocket again. Use it on a Morsell-type grad transfer
Quote from: Johnny B on December 19, 2023, 09:39:25 PM
Very embarrassing and upsetting. keep trying kid myself thinking this is a top 6 team but garbage like this makes it tough.worse part is we are the better team. f uc providence they suck. Hate playing here. Was hoping the badger game would be the worst performance of the year but this one edges it out. Just horrendous basketball. Still.....as bad is this was wouldn't be surprised if we win 7 or 8 straight after this.
I wouldn't be surprised by that win streak, nor would I be if we lost 3 out of the next 4. Don't know how to read this team
Ba humbug
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 19, 2023, 09:37:47 PM
Not sure much of the in game is on Shaka. This was just guys simply playing stupid for 40 min.
We are seeing the potential flaws that we all have worried about in Shakas philosphy when things are not near perfect like last year. Time to use the portal like everyone else when you clearly need other options.
And as Ive said for weeks now. The whole "everyone has a green light" thing falls on Shaka. Its simply bad philosphy to give 5 guys on this team a green light.
Hes gotta come up with other ways for us to score because against any defense with a pulse we are screwed. TK making a delicious kick out to a open Gold(ok shooter) who makes the extra pass to Chase(cant shoot) to Sean(really cant shoot) looks pretty until ultimately the shot is bricked. ANd it happens over and over and over.
This 100% - throwing away possessions with poor shooters constantly missing is killer. Especially when we give up so many extra possessions defensively with our poor rebounding.
I also think they're asking too much of jop. He kills the flow with his drives and more often than not, ends up in a really bad spot, resulting in a poor shot, travel or throwing the ball into another bad spot. He should never put the ball on the floor, play him on the weak side and get him as many spot up looks as they can.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 19, 2023, 09:37:47 PM
Not sure much of the in game is on Shaka. This was just guys simply playing stupid for 40 min.
We are seeing the potential flaws that we all have worried about in Shakas philosphy when things are not near perfect like last year. Time to use the portal like everyone else when you clearly need other options.
And as Ive said for weeks now. The whole "everyone has a green light" thing falls on Shaka. Its simply bad philosphy to give 5 guys on this team a green light.
Hes gotta come up with other ways for us to score because against any defense with a pulse we are screwed. TK making a delicious kick out to a open Gold(ok shooter) who makes the extra pass to Chase(cant shoot) to Sean(really cant shoot) looks pretty until ultimately the shot is bricked. ANd it happens over and over and over.
If guys play stupid for 40 minutes, coach is to blame or wtf is coach doing for 40 minutes.
I had penciled this one in as a loss, but how we lost is surprising. This team needs Ross, Jop & Gold to be better, and cannot go another game without Mitchell. Ok, nothing profound with that statement. However, we need 'another guy', and unfortunately he's not on the roster. A guy that can bang in the paint. Play D. Clean the glass. I'm adjusting down a game to 13-7 in conference. Still should be good for a 4 or 5 seed. Then...matchups will determine our fortunes.
Quote from: Viper on December 19, 2023, 10:26:16 PM
I had penciled this one in as a loss, but how we lost is surprising. This team needs Ross, Jop & Gold to be better, and cannot go another game without Mitchell. Ok, nothing profound with that statement. However, we need 'another guy', and unfortunately he's not on the roster. A guy that can bang in the paint. Play D. Clean the glass. I'm adjusting down a game to 13-7 in conference. Still should be good for a 4 or 5 seed. Then...matchups will determine our fortunes.
If he can't go today why bother trying him in 3 days. Just rest for creighton. Also any lower than a 3 seed would be a colossal disappointment..
Quote from: panda on December 19, 2023, 10:05:32 PM
I also think they're asking too much of jop. He kills the flow with his drives and more often than not, ends up in a really bad spot, resulting in a poor shot, travel or throwing the ball into another bad spot. He should never put the ball on the floor, play him on the weak side and get him as many spot up looks as they can.
Whoa. Bravo. Never thought you'd be so honest about Jop.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 19, 2023, 10:29:38 PM
If he can't go today why bother trying him in 3 days. Just rest for creighton. Also any lower than a 3 seed would be a colossal disappointment..
I'd brace for disappointment. Marquette is a good but flawed team that doesn't shoot the 3 or rebound well. I think 4-6 seed is more likely.
Quote from: Norm on December 20, 2023, 12:17:17 AM
I'd brace for disappointment. Marquette is a good but flawed team that doesn't shoot the 3 or rebound well. I think 4-6 seed is more likely.
So you think they'll actually fall out of the top 25 by march? Cause that's what a 5 or 6 seed would mean with the non conference resume they have. A 4 and we're ranked like 23 ish. idk it would really bad like 10-8 in big east
Quote from: Johnny B on December 20, 2023, 12:22:26 AM
So you think they'll actually fall out of the top 25 by march? Cause that's what a 5 or 6 seed would mean with the non conference resume they have. A 4 and we're ranked like 23 ish. idk it would really bad like 10-8 in big east
4 seed would be basically 13-16 and 5 seed 17-20 if it perfectly aligned with rankings. I read somewhere they dropped to 14 in Kenpom already. I thought they'd finish around 4th in the league before the year started. Was gladly thinking I was wrong watching them play well in Hawaii, but since then I don't think they have looked that great. I can see 6-7 more losses in the conference unless they find some 3 point shooting and Kam, Tyler and Oso all have good nights at the same time on a regular basis - and that has not happened much this season.
Bad, bad performance by MU. They never seemed to get into rhythm and the poor shooting coupled with turnovers did them in. The biggest thing that has jumped up to me during their poorly played games has been lack of ball movement. In both the UW game and last night, Sean Jones got extended minutes and the offense stalled out.
IMO, if Kolek is going to play in the NBA it us going to be at PG and that is where he should be playing. He gets everyone involved at a very high level and that has been the difference.
It is funny that the new theme is that MU has little talent off of the bench, yet in the games they looked their best, the young guys were praised on here. When the offense is clicking, it makes everyone look great and when it stalls, weaknesses are exposed.
Bad game, bad effort, bad execution and they got beat up. This game was marked as a loss for me going into the season and figured they would have 3-4 clunkers in BE play. Hopefully only 2-3 clunkers left for the team. It will come down to shooting and hope the good shooting days are in March.
No silver lining, aside of getting from getting a tough road game off the schedule.
English Enterprises has better players ,overall ,than MU. The spread reflects the talent gap.
MU =a Whole Is Greater Than Sum Of Parts Team. Stevie is missed in that context.
MU deep pockets supporters needs to come up with the coin to compete in portal next spring. We need shooters not brick layers .
Unfortunately, there will be several more beat downs like this on the road. MU will need to hold serve at home.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 19, 2023, 09:39:25 PM
Very embarrassing and upsetting. keep trying kid myself thinking this is a top 6 team but garbage like this makes it tough.worse part is we are the better team. f uc providence they suck. Hate playing here. Was hoping the badger game would be the worst performance of the year but this one edges it out. Just horrendous basketball. Still.....as bad is this was wouldn't be surprised if we win 7 or 8 straight after this.
7 or 8 straight aint happening
Really disappointing and frustrating. Had high hopes this year, but these guys have spent too much time reading press clippings and not enough time working on flaws. The players are who they are. Several guards that can't shoot the 3. Short Jones, Mitchell, Ross. Joplin who can't post without a TO. Gold who many think is NBA, but is not even ready for BEast.
They all seem like good kids but they appear to not be ready for the rigors of BEast play. Don't forget Wisconsin and St. Thomas. Going to be a long year.
What the hell happened from last year?
it's too easy for an opponent to neutralize a team with only one or two weapons. put em in an old milwaukee arena sized building on the road and ya got yourselves exactly what happened last night.
not going to get into "blaming the refs" but the way they were calling that game, on the physical side of inconsistent, left us very little chance to make a come back. the refs seemed to just swallow their whistles every time he'd try to draw fouls on aggressive drives to the basket. a couple of calls and/or "and ones" woulda/coulda done wonders in so many ways
there were a couple of times i thought i saw "that look" in TK's eyes, but the rest of the team just couldn't seem to come thru with him.
gold had that deer in the headlights look again
i love seanie but...does he even practice shooting anything beyond spin move jukes and 1-3 footers?
jop way too tentative-not playing like a seasoned junior
Schedule L. Moving on.
Sometimes you get beat by a team that outplays you; sometimes you beat yourself. Last night was a combination of the two. On offense, the ball got stuck too much, no one could hit a 3 pt shot, and everyone took turns missing layups. On defense, the rotations seemed slow, and there were too many stupid fouls (especially on 3 pt shots).
I have been a bit skeptical of their ranking, but after Maui I thought that perhaps they were that good. They are not. This is not a top 10 team. It's a good team, and, when everything works well, it's a very good team. But, it is a team that has to have all its parts and play focused, high-energy ball.
rgoode
I think it comes down to moving the ball. Kolek has to have ball in his hands if this team wants to win big. Sean Jones dribbles way too much and then everyone else follows suit. The UW game and last night reminded me of Feb of Shaka's first season. I thought Lewis and Morsel hung onto the ball way too much and it broke the team style of play. It is time for the big three to play team ball and not showcase their individual skills.
Quote from: Norm on December 20, 2023, 12:38:40 AM
4 seed would be basically 13-16 and 5 seed 17-20 if it perfectly aligned with rankings. I read somewhere they dropped to 14 in Kenpom already. I thought they'd finish around 4th in the league before the year started. Was gladly thinking I was wrong watching them play well in Hawaii, but since then I don't think they have looked that great. I can see 6-7 more losses in the conference unless they find some 3 point shooting and Kam, Tyler and Oso all have good nights at the same time on a regular basis - and that has not happened much this season.
MU is currently 15
Quote from: Goose on December 20, 2023, 08:06:23 AM
rgoode
I think it comes down to moving the ball. Kolek has to have ball in his hands if this team wants to win big. Sean Jones dribbles way too much and then everyone else follows suit. The UW game and last night reminded me of Feb of Shaka's first season. I thought Lewis and Morsel hung onto the ball way too much and it broke the team style of play. It is time for the big three to play team ball and not showcase their individual skills.
Agree Goose.
Not at all surprised that we lost but was shocked at how we were dominated. Two very poor performances in a row by this team and Shaka. Hopefully they can figure it out on Friday and then get a win against Creighton. Not having Stevie definitely makes a difference but I don't think having him last night would have changed the result.
It felt worse in real time... but that was not a bad defensive performance. PC was only at 1 PPP. The offense was so abysmal every bucket they gave up felt big.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 19, 2023, 09:39:54 PM
Two true road games, were dominated in both.
Good thing we will play zero true road games in the NCAA tournament. I like our chances if we play the way we did in our neutral court games.
Also, as others pointed out, we won at Illinois.
This is not me saying everything is hunky-dory. Just not a big enough sample size for me to get too riled up yet.
82
Only concern to me is that they have played two very bad games thus far. As I mentioned a couple of times, I do think playing this many tough opponents does take a toll and getting up for every game is not easy. Anyone that does not think that this team is better than last year is using tunnel vision on the clunkers or don't want to be disappointed. There is so much basketball left, and I think they figure it out. If not, it will be a very big missed opportunity because this team has talent.
MU has the exact record I thought they would right now and thought they would lose last night going into the season. The good MU is extremely good, and the bad MU is not very good at all. Again, there is still 19 games left and plenty of time to figure things out.
Quote from: Goose on December 20, 2023, 10:21:19 AM
82
Only concern to me is that they have played two very bad games thus far. As I mentioned a couple of times, I do think playing this many tough opponents does take a toll and getting up for every game is not easy. Anyone that does not think that this team is better than last year is using tunnel vision on the clunkers or don't want to be disappointed. There is so much basketball left, and I think they figure it out. If not, it will be a very big missed opportunity because this team has talent.
MU has the exact record I thought they would right now and thought they would lose last night going into the season. The good MU is extremely good, and the bad MU is not very good at all. Again, there is still 19 games left and plenty of time to figure things out.
Agree with all of that.
I understand folks looking at our road performances at Madison and the Dunk and being disappointed/frustrated/concerned. But we've also played pretty darn well for long stretches on neutral courts and at home.
I'm actually excited to see how the team bounces back from this.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2023, 10:14:17 AM
Good thing we will play zero true road games in the NCAA tournament. I like our chances if we play the way we did in our neutral court games.
Also, as others pointed out, we won at Illinois.
This is not me saying everything is hunky-dory. Just not a big enough sample size for me to get too riled up yet.
Yes, my bad forgetting Illinois win.
I'm not riled up either, but bothered they weren't just losses, but thorough beat downs the games were essentially over at halftime.
Teams are coming for them this year after winning conference last year and a high national ranking (for now). They're the hunted now, especially in road games, unlike last year. They seem to play better in the underdog role. We'll see if they can adjust and get it right. Lots of season left.
When we're cold from 3 and our guards are getting denied at the rim by athletic bigs, how do we score? Can Sean jones develop a floater/tear drop? Can Mitchel and Ross pull up from 8 feet after they beat their man? Can we run plays/set screens to get Joplin open looks from 3?
You have been watching Shaka, MU and Nevada's offense for 2.5 seasons. What specific plays have you seen to get a specific player either an open corner 3 or a lay up? I can think of two. (Not counting alley oops to Amadou)
So has every other coach in America. Maybe it's time to make a few adjustments.
How many plays did Villanova run under Wright? Not many. Concepts. That is kind of where MU is. Running motion, screen and rolls, ghost screens, giving it to Oso, hand offs. Hit 3's had a normal clip, and it seems unstoppable. Shoot like crap and every offense looks bad.
You are right. We don't need plays. But Joplin needs to get more open threes in the flow of the offense. Mitchel, Sean jones and Ross need to find other ways to score when there is an effective rim protector. Or drive and dish.
Joplin needs a quicker release.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2023, 04:55:46 PM
Joplin needs a quicker release.
TMI
Also, we can't let the tommies shoot an all works efg%
Not that we shouldn't easily defeat Georgetown, but alarm bells are sounding.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 20, 2023, 07:00:40 PM
Not that we shouldn't easily defeat Georgetown, but alarm bells are sounding.
We'll see what we go New Year's Eve Eve.
Must play Kolek as the one and let the offense be controlled by him. No more off the ball stuff. The offense stagnates when he is not the guy, and generally flows well with him at the point. So..... and we need Stevie back.
Can't wait to beat Georgetown by 34 and have the board scream "we're back! It's all fixed!!"
It is a fascinating character study.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 20, 2023, 07:47:08 PM
Can't wait to beat Georgetown by 34 and have the board scream "we're back! It's all fixed!!"
Truly
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 20, 2023, 07:47:08 PM
Can't wait to beat Georgetown by 34 and have the board scream "we're back! It's all fixed!!"
Would happen everytime during the later Wojo years. Typical goofs on this board "See I told you Brendan Bailey could perform at this level!"
The way I see it is we have a situation here where we can't execute effectively in our press or in our offense. Perhaps in a change determined by our opponent. On defense, neither Tyler nor Jones can shake down a talented guard bringing the ball up the court after a missed shot and a rebound. Some people said that Stevie was a great defender but he couldn't shoot so bring him off the bench. Because we don't need the scoring. We're good. Well I for one can see his value.
On offense it's a different story. If Marquette gets a rebound and pushes it they can be downright electrifying. They put the G in giggity go. It's even fun to see Oso bringing the ball up the court. But now in the half court if Oso doesn't get into a flow early and makes his short floaters and Tyler isn't dropping left handed lay ups the offense gets nervous. Mighty nervous because then everyone is hoping Kam can make a big shot and everyone can breathe a sigh of relief.
Right now, the way things are happening, it's as some of you have said, people are over dribbling and praying for circus shots to fall. And hope for a plus one. It hasn't worked.
This will turn around. Marquette will beat Georgetown and on Monday they will drop in the polls from six to ten, I'm guessing. And then the team will understand once again what effort is necessary to compete. And some of the focus on the three, the triangle will resurface again.
Not reading a short story