MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: dgies9156 on August 10, 2023, 01:31:01 PM
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After reading the listings of the Most Important MU recruits ever, I couldn't resist. I began thinking about who the most disappointing MU recruits ever were. I'm really curious what everyone else thinks, but I'll start and put mine together.
1) Joey Hauser -- Enough said. We were thought to be a Top 10 and maybe Top 5 team when Joey wrote his letter. Everything went up in smoke, including Wojo's career. The Baby Hauser always will be Number 1.
2) Lloyd "Chocolate Moose" Moore -- The Moose was a highly regarded center and heavily recruited. Showed up on campus with an extra caboose and a lot more weight. Wrecked his knee and went adios.
3) Tony Reeder -- Bob Dukiet's only notable recruit. Never panned out and as I recall got into off the court troubles. Dropped out.
4) Henry Ellenson -- A great recruit but one of the most undisciplined players I ever saw. Ellenson read his press clippings too much and played for himself rather than the team. Wojo probably should have been fired for failing to coach Ellenson. Probably good he was gone after a year but boy this was a talented player.
5) Bernard Toone -- McGuire once called him "wasted talent." Was a guy you could build a team around but really never showed it. incredibly talented and should have replaced Bo Ellis as a leader on our team in 1978. One year in the NBA for that level of talent was truly disappointing.
Honorable mentions: Theo John (with that body, he should have been a lot more than he was), Dawson Garcia (probably overrated coming in) and Mark Marotta (though contributed heavily to Marquette and Milwaukee off the court).
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Lloyd Moore, big (really big) guy out of Pittsburgh in the mid 80’s.
Keith Stewart- from Messmer and transferred from Purdue after one year after KO took over. A lot of talent, but time at MU was brief and very forgettable. Not even sure where he ended up post MU.
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Bernard as a senior averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds, yes we all thought he was going to be better, but still was pretty good. Did not have the killer instinct, also had 18 points against Wake Forest and play well in the championship game. There was worse than him. Hype was out of hand
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Reeder was a Majerus guy.
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Juan Anderson and JaJuan Johnson.
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Can we count LeDarryl as a recruit?
I would say two that come to mind are:
Amo & Dameon Mason
Never lived to the hype and forced MU to go all in Wes, Dom & Jerel.
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2) Lloyd "Chocolate Moose" Moore -- The Moose was a highly regarded center and heavily recruited. Showed up on campus with an extra caboose and a lot more weight. Wrecked his knee and went adios.
I'll meet you outside, dog.
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Joey Hauser?
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I'll meet you outside, dog.
You bringing the donuts?
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After reading the listings of the Most Important MU recruits ever, I couldn't resist. I began thinking about who the most disappointing MU recruits ever were. I'm really curious what everyone else thinks, but I'll start and put mine together.
1) Joey Hauser -- Enough said. We were thought to be a Top 10 and maybe Top 5 team when Joey wrote his letter. Everything went up in smoke, including Wojo's career. The Baby Hauser always will be Number 1.
2) Lloyd "Chocolate Moose" Moore -- The Moose was a highly regarded center and heavily recruited. Showed up on campus with an extra caboose and a lot more weight. Wrecked his knee and went adios.
3) Tony Reeder -- Bob Dukiet's only notable recruit. Never panned out and as I recall got into off the court troubles. Dropped out.
4) Henry Ellenson -- A great recruit but one of the most undisciplined players I ever saw. Ellenson read his press clippings too much and played for himself rather than the team. Wojo probably should have been fired for failing to coach Ellenson. Probably good he was gone after a year but boy this was a talented player.
5) Bernard Toone -- McGuire once called him "wasted talent." Was a guy you could build a team around but really never showed it. incredibly talented and should have replaced Bo Ellis as a leader on our team in 1978. One year in the NBA for that level of talent was truly disappointing.
Honorable mentions: Theo John (with that body, he should have been a lot more than he was), Dawson Garcia (probably overrated coming in) and Mark Marotta (though contributed heavily to Marquette and Milwaukee off the court).
Calling a lottery pick who lead the team in points and rebounds as a freshman "disappointing" is pretty funny, tbh.
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Scooter and Rodney McCray. Disappointed MU and Louisville.
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Terry Reason.
California player of the year that ended up being a big nothing. Also, had a really bad haircut that earned him the nickname "Helmet Head".
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You bringing the donuts?
😂
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Lloyd Moore, big (really big) guy out of Pittsburgh in the mid 80’s.
Keith Stewart- from Messmer and transferred from Purdue after one year after KO took over. A lot of talent, but time at MU was brief and very forgettable. Not even sure where he ended up post MU.
During the Lloyd Moore era, I was using my alumni privileges to be a member at the MU Rec Center. Often parked near 17th and Wisconsin. In those days there used to be a a Cousins Sub on the northeast corner of 17th and Wisconsin ( now McCabe Hall I think). I recall freshman Lloyd Moore coming to Marquette all the rage at the time among BB fans. About the 2nd week of school in September that year, I stopped at Cousins one evening after my stint at the Rec Center. There was poor Lloyd working on not one, but 2, full cheese steaks. Those suckers were HUGE and I always had all I could do to finish one. I knew right then and there which direction Lloyd's career was headed.
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Joey
Maymon
Mbao - some 7 footer who had allegedly played professional basketball. Turned out Buzz had to teach him simply how to do jumping jacks in front of an inbounder in end of game situations.
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+1 for Ellenson. The hype around him was so crazy. We didn't even make the NCAA tournament the year he was here (not that it was all his fault).
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lloyd Moore would be very high on my most disappointing recruits ever. This a tough topic because IMO it needs to be a highly recruited guy that did not meet expectations. Of the top of my head Kerry Trotter is someone that I thought was disappointing as a MU player. Had a very nice game and great guy, but not a program changer I was hoping for when he announced MU.
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Shannon Smith has to be up there
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He wasn't ranked high, but there was tons of buildup around James "Manchild" Matthews. Ended up never playing a game at Marquette and transferred out after one semester.
Do transfers count, or is that for an upcoming separate thread?
If so, Keith Stewart hands down. Local kid, transferred in from Purdue with tons of hype and played only about five games before O'Neill kicked him out of the program.
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lloyd Moore would be very high on my most disappointing recruits ever. This a tough topic because IMO it needs to be a highly recruited guy that did not meet expectations. Of the top of my head Kerry Trotter is someone that I thought was disappointing as a MU player. Had a very nice game and great guy, but not a program changer I was hoping for when he announced MU.
Goose, he scored 1221 points for MU, 32nd best. You are tough on him!
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Walter Downing
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Recently, what happened with McKay & Deonte hurt my soul
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JayBee
I loved both of those guys A LOT. Those are big disappointments in another way.
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How about, Tony Davis and Larry Hatchett, those two never played at all!
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BC
I did not have high hopes for those guys.
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Tough call!
Ellenson - I can see that he was disappointing, but I also could see him called the best freshman MU ever had.
Maymon - for sure
Reason, Trotter, Downing, Wes, Dom, Jerel, - no way!
I vote Lloyd. And btw, I think it might have been Suburbia- not Subway.
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Would you consider Dean Marquardt a disappointment?
He was a major recruit, 6"10" center that turned down Kentucky and, I believe, UNC to come to MU.
But then this happened.
Is it fair to call someone a "bust" or "disappointment" when this happens? To me, a "bust" is someone that did not have this kind of obstacle and failed to love up to the hype. But when this happens, and again, he almost died in this accident, it is more "unfortunate circumstances."
August 27, 1979
(https://img.newspapers.com/img/img?user=0&id=251482947&clippingId=11846299&width=542&height=2319&crop=2000_319_542_2319&rotation=0)
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BC
I did not have high hopes for those guys.
Yeah, they were last minute signees after other recruits went elsewhere. Hatchett did use his education well and is a urologist. Great name for that specialty!
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Yeah, they were last minute signees after other recruits went elsewhere. Hatchett did use his education well and is a urologist. Great name for that specialty!
. M
Who did MU lose on?
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Tough call!
Ellenson - I can see that he was disappointing, but I also could see him called the best freshman MU ever had.
Maymon - for sure
Reason, Trotter, Downing, Wes, Dom, Jerel, - no way!
I vote Lloyd. And btw, I think it might have been Suburbia- not Subway.
Suburpia didn't have hot subs back then.
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Ellenson mentions here are sorry, ridiculous. He averaged 17 and almost 10 boards a game as a freshman. Started every game. Had a huge game in Madison we won. Just a few picks outside the lottery then. And his coach was one of MU’s worst.
What, he wasn’t to MU what Larry Bird was to Indiana St so throw him on the list? He played one season here as an 18/19 year old.
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Shannon Smith has to be up there
That’s a good one. I think it had more to do with him and KO not meshing at all Too bad. He was very talented.
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His junior year at UWM he was the 3rd leading scorer in the country. Knee injury his senior year. Played in NBA and made some good cash on a deal with Pacers. Hardly a bust.
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William Gates was much hyped. The next Isaiah Thomas was the word on him coming in. Yeah, all they had in common was the same high school. Think that started with a Chicago sportswriter who obviously had no idea what he was talking about.
A nice guy, not much talent though
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His junior year at UWM he was the 3rd leading scorer in the country. Knee injury his senior year. Played in NBA and made some good cash on a deal with Pacers. Hardly a bust.
For MU it was a bust. That’s the topic.
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Suburpia didn't have hot subs back then.
Cousins was on the northeast corner of 17th and Wisconsin and Suburpia was across the street from Real Chili on Wells. At least in my day that's where they were/
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Ellenson mentions here are sorry, ridiculous. He averaged 17 and almost 10 boards a game as a freshman. Started every game. Had a huge game in Madison we won. Just a few picks outside the lottery then. And his coach was one of MU’s worst.
What, he wasn’t to MU what Larry Bird was to Indiana St so throw him on the list? He played one season here as an 18/19 year old.
I disagree. His season with MU was disappointing.
The thing is, though, that it wasn't Henry's fault. It was Wojo's fault. It was my first glimpse of what MU had in Wojo: Someone that tries to ride his star player by giving them the ultra green-light instead of building an offense/defense around his star talent. Hero ball.
I've got nothing against Ellenson. Wojo wasted our time with Ellenson just like he wasted our time with Howard. Not playing team ball is really challenging to watch.
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William Gates was much hyped. The next Isaiah Thomas was the word on him coming in. Yeah, all they had in common was the same high school. Think that started with a Chicago sportswriter who obviously had no idea what he was talking about.
A nice guy, not much talent though
Those things were said before Gates wrecked his knee in high school. He was never the same player.
Had he stayed healthy, Gates likely would have never made it to Marquette. He'd have been one of the top recruits in the country.
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Terry Reason.
California player of the year that ended up being a big nothing. Also, had a really bad haircut that earned him the nickname "Helmet Head".
100%
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Lloyd Moore, big (really big) guy out of Pittsburgh in the mid 80’s.
Keith Stewart- from Messmer and transferred from Purdue after one year after KO took over. A lot of talent, but time at MU was brief and very forgettable. Not even sure where he ended up post MU.
Stewart ended at UC-Irvine, I believe
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His junior year at UWM he was the 3rd leading scorer in the country. Knee injury his senior year. Played in NBA and made some good cash on a deal with Pacers. Hardly a bust.
That’s pretty much exactly why he was a disappointment for MU.
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Those things were said before Gates wrecked his knee in high school. He was never the same player.
Had he stayed healthy, Gates likely would have never made it to Marquette. He'd have been one of the top recruits in the country.
Agreed. I was at MU with Gates, and I didn't remember much fanfare around his arrival. His stock had dropped significantly after his injury. I thought he was a solid player and lived up to his potential given his injury. And a very nice guy to boot.
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I would add Eke. I was very upset Ikechukwu could never be healthy.
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From recent memory, it has to be Erik Williams and Symir Torrence. Two too 100 rated prospects that did nothing at Marquette and then went on to do nothing at their subsequent stops.
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I would add Eke. I was very upset Ikechukwu could never be healthy.
Unfair to label a kid a “disappointing recruit” just because he got hurt and could never play basketball again. He was still a positive member of the program. And he was always billed as a project big anyway.
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From recent memory, it has to be Erik Williams and Symir Torrence. Two too 100 rated prospects that did nothing at Marquette and then went on to do nothing at their subsequent stops.
These are good recent picks
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A player who really was highly ranked was Duane Wilson, saw him in high school, was explosive, lost that with his injuries, good kid. Ranked 55th on ESPN top 100.
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Good call, Atl Warrior
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Niv Berkowitz
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I disagree. His season with MU was disappointing.
The thing is, though, that it wasn't Henry's fault. It was Wojo's fault. It was my first glimpse of what MU had in Wojo: Someone that tries to ride his star player by giving them the ultra green-light instead of building an offense/defense around his star talent. Hero ball.
I've got nothing against Ellenson. Wojo wasted our time with Ellenson just like he wasted our time with Howard. Not playing team ball is really challenging to watch.
I disagree. Horrible comparisons. Henry’s supporting cast was lacking. Extremely young squad.
MU’s offense wasn’t good.
As for Markus, his teams’ offenses were exceptional
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Calling a lottery pick who lead the team in points and rebounds as a freshman "disappointing" is pretty funny, tbh.
I mean, after reading the rest it's about what I expect from this guy. He clearly doesn't know ball.
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Rod Grosse was Dukiet's most disappointing recruit.
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The Beast
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Those things were said before Gates wrecked his knee in high school. He was never the same player.
Had he stayed healthy, Gates likely would have never made it to Marquette. He'd have been one of the top recruits in the country.
Yes he hurt his knee and it set him back. I still think he was overhyped. He had a lousy, flat jumper with no range, even by 1990 standards for starters. I’m really skeptical how much was there before the injury. A lot of freshman highlights in Hoop Dreams before the injury and nothing looked special about him. I might be wrong because it’s obviously a small sample size.
I also am not sure how bad the injury truly was that it ruined him in and of itself. But it was late 80’s/ early 90’s where surgical and rehab techniques were nowhere near advanced as they are now.
I just think there are a lot of assumptions about the long term effects of the injury and how much talent he really had before it. But I’m open I could be wrong about that skepticism.
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As for Gates, I was in school with him & remember being at games and occasionally having, “holy sh1t, where did that come from?!?!” moments… as in, I’d say he displayed that physically he wasn’t able to do what he was likely capable of pre-injury
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Jameel McKay - he could’ve been really good here.
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Hilarious to see both Ellenson and Moore mentioned as disappointments.
One was a double-double machine who beat Madison, made huge plays as we defeated a very good Providence team twice, and won the Barclays event ... and earned the right to be drafted in the first round.
The other was an overhyped stiff who couldn't get out of his own way.
I mean, I could see being disappointed that Marquette didn't win more with Ellenson, or that he was poorly coached. But to say he was disappointing ... really? Wow.
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Hilarious to see both Ellenson and Moore mentioned as disappointments.
One was a double-double machine who beat Madison, made huge plays as we twice defeated a very good Providence team twice, and won the Barclays event ... and earned the right to be drafted in the first round.
The other was an overhyped stiff who couldn't get out of his own way.
I mean, I could see being disappointed that Marquette didn't win more with Ellenson, or that he was poorly coached. But to say he was disappointing ... really? Wow.
Exactly, it’s ludicrous.
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Hilarious to see both Ellenson and Moore mentioned as disappointments.
One was a double-double machine who beat Madison, made huge plays as we defeated a very good Providence team twice, and won the Barclays event ... and earned the right to be drafted in the first round.
The other was an overhyped stiff who couldn't get out of his own way.
I mean, I could see being disappointed that Marquette didn't win more with Ellenson, or that he was poorly coached. But to say he was disappointing ... really? Wow.
Plus, we got the bonus of the Wally era as well.
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Hilarious to see both Ellenson and Moore mentioned as disappointments.
One was a double-double machine who beat Madison, made huge plays as we defeated a very good Providence team twice, and won the Barclays event ... and earned the right to be drafted in the first round.
The other was an overhyped stiff who couldn't get out of his own way.
I mean, I could see being disappointed that Marquette didn't win more with Ellenson, or that he was poorly coached. But to say he was disappointing ... really? Wow.
All Big East First Teamer: I'll take that disappointment every year.
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Ellenson mentions here are sorry, ridiculous. He averaged 17 and almost 10 boards a game as a freshman. Started every game. Had a huge game in Madison we won. Just a few picks outside the lottery then. And his coach was one of MU’s worst.
What, he wasn’t to MU what Larry Bird was to Indiana St so throw him on the list? He played one season here as an 18/19 year old.
This is what I was thinking while reading the Ellenson mentions
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Wojo
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Rod Grosse was Dukiet's most disappointing recruit.
You're fishing in a deep pond there, bil.
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Matt heldt
Steve Taylor
Symir
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Gotta go with Nick Noskowiak. Top 100 recruit, signed LOI with MU, helped recruit the aforementioned HE, got in trouble, and never ended up setting foot on campus. It seemed like things really spiraled for the kid from there. Hope he figured it all out.
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Montrelle Clark ended up in jail for sexual assault, I believe. Or Malik Harris who tried to light a girl’s hair on fire with a bunson burner before MU messed with Buzz’s happy and told him Malik was not welcome here, ending up being kicked off of KSU’s team.
Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
The real answer to the question is Phillip Flory, who Buzz offered as an 8th grader and then he was hardly a low major player.
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Rod Grosse was Dukiet's most disappointing recruit.
Was this supposed to be in teal? First, I don't think anyone expected much from Grosse when he was recruited (its not like he was Roman "biggest sleeper since Rip Van Winkle" Mueller). And besides, he was a Majerus recruit that Dukiet inherited.
Gerald Posey and Corey Floyd are easily the two biggest disappointments of the Dukiet era--both were very highly rated coming in--Floyd never played for MU, and Posey had a run-in with Dukiet and quit. I might add Charles Luter to the mix--highly rated in Wisconsin as a HS senior and never recovered from a pre-season knee injury before his soph year.
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Not sure how anyone can put Henry on this list. He was fantastic at Marquette.
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I disagree. Horrible comparisons. Henry’s supporting cast was lacking. Extremely young squad.
MU’s offense wasn’t good.
As for Markus, his teams’ offenses were exceptional
The supporting cast was lacking 100%. It's why Henry led most of our stat categories. Some studs make the parts around them better. Others don't. I don't think Henry made those around him better (and this falls on Wojo). However, its very fair to say he was a disappointment because of all the fanfare and recruiting hype he had. We had less hyped recruits that did more from a winning standpoint than Henry did, and that's ok.
There's a reason he dropped in the draft and barely played in the NBA.
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Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
His recruits produced our first Big East title and more NCAA wins than any MU coach not named McGuire. So yeah, Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
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Mbakwe and christoferson transferring were both disappointments
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His recruits produced our first Big East title and more NCAA wins than any MU coach not named McGuire. So yeah, Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
It's almost like two things can be true at once.
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Jamil Wilson. Good player, but never developed that next gear to fulfill the hype and potential he had.
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Exactly, it’s ludicrous.
I was a Henry fan. I remember it came down to Kentucky, MI State and Marquette. I wish he had stayed for a sophomore year.
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Gotta go with Nick Noskowiak. Top 100 recruit, signed LOI with MU, helped recruit the aforementioned HE, got in trouble, and never ended up setting foot on campus. It seemed like things really spiraled for the kid from there. Hope he figured it all out.
he was highly touted. I heard he could really play. Out of Sun Prairie, I believe?
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Walter Downing
I’ll second this!
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Gotta go with Nick Noskowiak. Top 100 recruit, signed LOI with MU, helped recruit the aforementioned HE, got in trouble, and never ended up setting foot on campus. It seemed like things really spiraled for the kid from there. Hope he figured it all out.
Hoooly, I forgot about him. This may be the answer.
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Cheatham has to be in the mix in this discussion. Just never progressed.
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William Gates was much hyped. The next Isaiah Thomas was the word on him coming in. Yeah, all they had in common was the same high school. Think that started with a Chicago sportswriter who obviously had no idea what he was talking about.
MU82?
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Zack McCall. Not so much based on recruiting hype, but more based on what I thought he could accomplish at MU. Built like a strong, sleek running back, with a quick first step, and a very good defender. He got into some sort of trouble if I recall, and was off the team by the end of his first season.
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I guess it depends on what you mean by disappointing. When Jim Chones went pro boy was I disappointed.
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Was this supposed to be in teal? First, I don't think anyone expected much from Grosse when he was recruited (its not like he was Roman "biggest sleeper since Rip Van Winkle" Mueller). And besides, he was a Majerus recruit that Dukiet inherited.
Gerald Posey and Corey Floyd are easily the two biggest disappointments of the Dukiet era--both were very highly rated coming in--Floyd never played for MU, and Posey had a run-in with Dukiet and quit. I might add Charles Luter to the mix--highly rated in Wisconsin as a HS senior and never recovered from a pre-season knee injury before his soph year.
As I remember Rod Grosse was Dukiet's only top 100 recruit out of high school.
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I mean, after reading the rest it's about what I expect from this guy. He clearly doesn't know ball.
Rather than resorting to ad hominum fallacies, one might look at the evidence for why BT was on the disappointment list. While he had a good senior year, BT was touted as more than good. He was touted in the same breaths as Bo Ellis, Earl Tatum and even Maurice Lucas. BT had some great games at MU but he wasn't what we hoped he would be.
Even St. Al said BT was one of the most wasted talents he ever saw.
All this said, I will concede that compared to Gerald Posey, Dean Marquardt, Tommy Copa, Dawson Garcia, the Moose and many other folks mentioned in this section, BT was head and shoulders above anyone. But I'm grading on a curve and expectations for BT were sky high.
As for Henry Ellenson, I'll concede he was an OK college player. I'll further acknowledge that Coach Wojo did as poor a job of coaching someone as I've ever seen. I was a regular in the BC that year and I was really disappointed at how selfish a player Ellenson was. There were times when I watched Henry play and thought, "I know this team is a bunch of stiffs and I know we need this guy, but Coach really needs to sit him down and remind him basketball is a team game."
Henry could have used a good dosage of "Relationships, Growth, Victory."
Ultimately Henry suffered from the same disease as the Baby Hauser. Both were big deals pumped up by their families, coaches and assorted hangers-on. They reached college and really didn't understand they weren't playing in the U.S. 53 Up North League anymore.
In short, Henry was a bust because I'm a Marquette fan, not a Henry fan.
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Wojo knew Henry was here for one year, that's it. And nothing was done to win in that year. The way they no showed At Butler spoke volumes about what was to come with Wojo teams.
The Henry experiment was an utter failure.
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Wojo knew Henry was here for one year, that's it. And nothing was done to win in that year. The way they no showed At Butler spoke volumes about what was to come with Wojo teams.
The Henry experiment was an utter failure.
We should’ve fired him after the Belmont game
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I disagree. His season with MU was disappointing.
The thing is, though, that it wasn't Henry's fault. It was Wojo's fault. It was my first glimpse of what MU had in Wojo: Someone that tries to ride his star player by giving them the ultra green-light instead of building an offense/defense around his star talent. Hero ball.
I've got nothing against Ellenson. Wojo wasted our time with Ellenson just like he wasted our time with Howard. Not playing team ball is really challenging to watch.
This is well said and I could not agree more. Nothing against Ellenson either but that one season was a major disappointment besides his stat line.
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The ones we lost by not streaming our 40 point wins in Italy.
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The ones we lost by not streaming our 40 point wins in Italy.
Maybe we were just ashamed of the other team. Truth be told, “withoutbias” never comes up in MU Scoop in person discussions.
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Rather than resorting to ad hominum fallacies, one might look at the evidence for why BT was on the disappointment list. While he had a good senior year, BT was touted as more than good. He was touted in the same breaths as Bo Ellis, Earl Tatum and even Maurice Lucas. BT had some great games at MU but he wasn't what we hoped he would be.
Even St. Al said BT was one of the most wasted talents he ever saw.
All this said, I will concede that compared to Gerald Posey, Dean Marquardt, Tommy Copa, Dawson Garcia, the Moose and many other folks mentioned in this section, BT was head and shoulders above anyone. But I'm grading on a curve and expectations for BT were sky high.
As for Henry Ellenson, I'll concede he was an OK college player. I'll further acknowledge that Coach Wojo did as poor a job of coaching someone as I've ever seen. I was a regular in the BC that year and I was really disappointed at how selfish a player Ellenson was. There were times when I watched Henry play and thought, "I know this team is a bunch of stiffs and I know we need this guy, but Coach really needs to sit him down and remind him basketball is a team game."
Henry could have used a good dosage of "Relationships, Growth, Victory."
Ultimately Henry suffered from the same disease as the Baby Hauser. Both were big deals pumped up by their families, coaches and assorted hangers-on. They reached college and really didn't understand they weren't playing in the U.S. 53 Up North League anymore.
In short, Henry was a bust because I'm a Marquette fan, not a Henry fan.
Oy vey. This is a strange hill to die on.
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Charles Luter... the kid was amazingly athletic, nice handle, would occasionally accidentally hit his head on the rim he could jump so well. MU doc botched the knee surgery and I don't think he ever played again. I knew his PT.
Nethan, Candelino and the other stiffs of the Dukiet era. Ugh... the mere fact that they were actually recruited! They couldn't even hold their own in pickup games at the rec center.
Ellenson - nah, he did what he was asked to do. All deficits on that team are Wojo, not hank.
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Joe Nethen and Tony Candelino met my expectations.
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As I remember Rod Grosse was Dukiet's only top 100 recruit out of high school.
Consensus rankings were a bit more difficult to find from the 80's but both Corey Floyd and Gerald Posey were named to top 100 lists.
Posey was prop 48 and expected to run the show as a soph. Instead left the court prior to the St. Thomas(?) game, and although starting several of the following games, was gone by January. He moved to D3 Trenton St and led them to a national runner-up spot, losing the championship game to UW-Whitewater. Posey passed a couple years back.
Floyd also had grade issues and ended instead going the juco route. He ended up at Providence, where his son is currently a reserve player.
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Jamil Wilson. Good player, but never developed that next gear to fulfill the hype and potential he had.
So that makes him one of the most disappointing MU recruits ever? He was a big reason why MU made it to the elite 8 ten years ago. Most disappointing are complete busts. Jamil was a very good player.
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Wade. No National Championship. Slacker.
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William Gates was much hyped. The next Isaiah Thomas was the word on him coming in. Yeah, all they had in common was the same high school. Think that started with a Chicago sportswriter who obviously had no idea what he was talking about.
MU82?
Nah, back then I was a Minneapolis sportswriter who obviously had no idea what he was talking about.
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Carlton Christian (aka The Shuffler) for me only because I most likely drunkenly at one point anointed him the next big thing at MU
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It's almost like two things can be true at once.
Every coach who’s around for more than a cup of coffee “knows how to recruit some real winners”. No reason to single one guy out unless you just want to be an asshat.
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So that makes him one of the most disappointing MU recruits ever? He was a big reason why MU made it to the elite 8 ten years ago. Most disappointing are complete busts. Jamil was a very good player.
I guess that’s just like your opinion, man.
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Every coach who’s around for more than a cup of coffee “knows how to recruit some real winners”. No reason to single one guy out unless you just want to be an asshat.
It's like both of Lenny's sentences are correct.
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Only disappointing ones are the ones that were recruited and never stepped foot on campus.
If they decided to come to Marquette, they were winners.
No?
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Only disappointing ones are the ones that were recruited and never stepped foot on campus.
If they decided to come to Marquette, they were winners.
No?
Not sure I would call T.J. Taylor a "winner" but OK...
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Every coach who’s around for more than a cup of coffee “knows how to recruit some real winners”. No reason to single one guy out unless you just want to be an asshat.
I'm sure there's a small amount of luck involved here. A college basketball coach can't always know when a teenager/young adult is going to make a stupid decision to embarrass his program.
That said, Buzz sure seemed to get unlucky way more often than any other MU coach I can remember.
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The recruiting classes of 2003 and 2004 were huge thuds beyond a couple so-so years from Dameon Mason. I wonder how much of that had to do with Crean's name being mentioned for every opening in the country.
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Zack McCall. Not so much based on recruiting hype, but more based on what I thought he could accomplish at MU. Built like a strong, sleek running back, with a quick first step, and a very good defender. He got into some sort of trouble if I recall, and was off the team by the end of his first season.
Pretty sure Zack McCall was recruited to the bball team from MU's soccer team. He was very fast and athletic, but not much of a polished bball player.
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100%
Terry Reason and Vic Lazretti were both dumped from scholly by Rick Majerus. Hard to know what they would have done, although Vic was a high school teammate of Terry Kotter's and probably why he was recruited.
Reason had a nice head of 'jerry curls'.
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Pretty sure Zack McCall was recruited to the bball team from MU's soccer team. He was very fast and athletic, but not much of a polished bball player.
You’re think of Marcus West.
McCall could have played football. Supposedly at Syracuse.
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My biggest disappointment of all was Jim Chones declaring pro before the season ended.
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William Gates was mentioned a few times. Although he was hyped and had a mediocre career at MU, we wound up with Amal McCaskill in recruiting Gates. Amal barely played in HS and would up becoming a huge part of KO’s Sweet Sixteen team and played in the NBA.
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Jarrod Lovette...the Mike Deane big man savior...
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Pakuni and TSmith34 are pretty high on my list of disappointments.
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My biggest disappointment of all was Jim Chones declaring pro before the season ended.
Well, that probably cost us one and maybe two Nattys.
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Harry Froling - most disappointing transfer in recent memory
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Harry Froling - most disappointing transfer in recent memory
Especially after Jay Bilas said he would be a difference maker, or some such hype
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Jarrod Lovette...the Mike Deane big man savior...
Jarrod Lovette was a very good contributor his first three years. Won us some big games (once went something like 11-11 from the line vs. Cinci). Mental health issues caught up to him his senior season which robbed him of a great ending to his otherwise very solid career.
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Harry Froling - most disappointing transfer in recent memory
I never saw a guy who looked more lost on the court than Harry. I believe that he had one good game at Marquette, but the rest of the time I was surprised that he did not have whiplash from trying to keep track of players running circles around him.
Not sure, but did he bad mouth Marquette after leaving?
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Montrelle Clark ended up in jail for sexual assault, I believe. Or Malik Harris who tried to light a girl’s hair on fire with a bunson burner before MU messed with Buzz’s happy and told him Malik was not welcome here, ending up being kicked off of KSU’s team.
Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
The real answer to the question is Phillip Flory, who Buzz offered as an 8th grader and then he was hardly a low major player.
It cracks me up to see you reference Harris setting the girls hair on fire after it was corroborated by others over the years. remember your first reaction to when I broke the hair on fire story?
"Really? I heard he bombed the Willis Tower. I also heard his grandparents' uncle had a scholarship revoked once. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree."
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=39962.25
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Montrelle Clark ended up in jail for sexual assault, I believe. Or Malik Harris who tried to light a girl’s hair on fire with a bunson burner before MU messed with Buzz’s happy and told him Malik was not welcome here, ending up being kicked off of KSU’s team.
Buzz knew how to recruit some real winners.
The real answer to the question is Phillip Flory, who Buzz offered as an 8th grader and then he was hardly a low major player.
Don't Eric Williams and the players in that dorm room which led to the Chicago Tribune writing their article.
And Jimmy Butler who's worse than all but Clark.
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Don't Eric Williams and the players in that dorm room which led to the Chicago Tribune writing their article.
And Jimmy Butler who's worse than all but Clark.
Jimmy’s next up for NBA HOF per Dwyane Wade. You gonna jump on the anti Jimmy bandwagon with Brew?
I’m gonna hang with Dwyane.
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Jimmy’s next up for NBA HOF per Dwyane Wade. You gonna jump on the anti Jimmy bandwagon with Brew?
I’m gonna hang with Dwyane.
Withoutbias built the anti Jimmy bandwagon. Its a one seat vehicle
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Withoutbias built the anti Jimmy bandwagon. Its a one seat vehicle
Jimmy stole his girlfriend and his lunch money.
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Jimmy stole his imaginarygirlfriend and his lunch money.
Fixed. Come on Lenny. You know better. Aint no woman gonna date a man withoutbias.
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Jimmy stole his girlfriend and his lunch money.
Jimmy rawdogged bias' grandma and stole her bottle of schnapps.
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Pakuni and TSmith34 are pretty high on my list of disappointments.
(https://media.tenor.com/GnMZ61ItPasAAAAC/regina-george-mean-girls.gif)
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Jarrod Lovette...the Mike Deane big man savior...
Said no one ever.
Not sure if this was meant as sarcasm, but if it wasn’t, it’s totally inaccurate.
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Lovette was a solid big too before his anxiety/mental health problems his final year.
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Terry Reason and Vic Lazretti were both dumped from scholly by Rick Majerus. Hard to know what they would have done, although Vic was a high school teammate of Terry Kotter's and probably why he was recruited.
Reason had a nice head of 'jerry curls'.
I'll agree with Reason being a disappointment. IIRC he was the #3 scorer in California prep history, but I don't know if he ever cracked the starting lineup here. He flashed some talent, but didn't really even get much court time.
Does anyone know why Rick pulled those schollies?
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Marquette called me to utilize a scholarship at Marquette that I wasn't intending on using. Before that, I was only vaguely aware of Marquette and truly could not have told you with 100% where it was. I ended up going, so Marquette recruited me.
Pretty sure I can find a ton of people that would claim I was the most disappointing recruit ever, including the person that made the original call. ;D
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Bart Miller had a great high school career in Kentucky.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/bart_miller
At Marquette he excelled in the classroom like no other, but rarely saw the court.
It was recruiting misses like this one that helped Mike Deane out the door.
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Doc Rivers was disappointing as a college player.
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Doc Rivers was disappointing as a college player.
That’s a fact. He was (and still is) the highest rated recruit in MU history (consensus top 5). He was great at driving the ball but wasn’t a good shooter. Teams packed it in against us and he/we would usually struggle.
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That’s a fact. He was (and still is) the highest rated recruit in MU history (consensus top 5). He was great at driving the ball but wasn’t a good shooter. Teams packed it in against us and he/we would usually struggle.
He was disappointing to some degree. Though he did average 14 ppg and almost 5 apg over 3 seasons as a starter. Also, to be be fair, he was not exactly surrounded by efficient outside shooters either.
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I'm amazed that Joey Hauser doesn't get more flack.
Single handedly dismantled a preseason top 10 team and got his coach fired.
Now some guys were disappointing, but Joey was Hiroshima, no?
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Nah, Woj got his own ass chit canned. Cat didn't have a clue, aina?
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Joey had an adequate freshman year.
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Nah, Woj got his own ass chit canned. Cat didn't have a clue, aina?
Yep. Joey was just the icing on the cake.
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Nah, Woj got his own ass chit canned. Cat didn't have a clue, aina?
MU would have been a hell of a team sans Joey but Wojo couldn't read the room. He should have let Joey go to MSU and let Brendan Bailey cook. We still would have been a top 10 team. Wojo never knew how to put the pieces together. That's the price you pay for 15 years of sitting on the bench next to a guy who only recruited, rarely coached.
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PRN and Lenny
I completed agree on Doc being a disappointment. He had his moments, but definitely nowhere near the player I had hoped he would be at MU.
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MU would have been a hell of a team sans Joey but Wojo couldn't read the room. He should have let Joey go to MSU and let Brendan Bailey cook. We still would have been a top 10 team. Wojo never knew how to put the pieces together.
Did we watch the same Brendan Bailey?
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Did we watch the same Brendan Bailey?
People forget he started over Joey in game 1. But lol, you're probably right.I’m
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Did we watch the same Brendan Bailey?
All time MU great, Brendan Bailey
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Now some guys were disappointing, but Joey was Hiroshima, no?
Yep. He disappointed at Michigan State, too.
Joey had an adequate freshman year.
Yep. It was his best season until he was a fifth-year senior under a Hall of Fame coach.
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I completed agree on Doc being a disappointment. He had his moments, but definitely nowhere near the player I had hoped he would be at MU.
Kind of like with Ellenson, "disappointment" is relative when it comes to Rivers. He didn't have the kind of Marquette career that his ratings and talent suggested he would have ... but he wasn't Lloyd Moore or Harry Froling or some of the other ballyhooed catastrophes that have been mentioned by other Scoopers.
Rivers was often very good - just not consistently good enough given his talent.
I admit that it's hard for me to be overly critical of a guy who made my favorite shot by a Warrior during my time at Marquette. Personally, I've never heard a louder MU home-court reaction than when Glenn tossed in that 35-footer to beat evil ND. Not to mention that he was a great kid back then and has been a great ambassador for MU since.
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Kind of like with Ellenson, "disappointment" is relative when it comes to Rivers. He didn't have the kind of Marquette career that his ratings and talent suggested he would have ... but he wasn't Lloyd Moore or Harry Froling or some of the other ballyhooed catastrophes that have been mentioned by other Scoopers.
Rivers was often very good - just not consistently good enough given his talent.
I admit that it's hard for me to be overly critical of a guy who made my favorite shot by a Warrior during my time at Marquette. Personally, I've never heard a louder MU home-court reaction than when Glenn tossed in that 35-footer to beat evil ND. Not to mention that he was a great kid back then and has been a great ambassador for MU since.
This is why Henry Ellenson is so high up on the disappointment rankings.
No moment and no engagement since.
It just felt dirty.
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This is why Henry Ellenson is so high up on the disappointment rankings.
No moment and no engagement since.
It just felt dirty.
You bet, dirty. Filthy. Like that win in Madison in Ryan’s second to last game. The school we all love to hate would have rolled us without him. I’d give it all back to feel pure and clean again.
And right, no moment either. Sticking it to the Kohl Center riding him all day and hitting big buckets with a W out of it. Yuck.
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Doc's problem was the disastrous team dynamics during the '82/'83 season. He had some culpability in that implosion, but the coaching staff led by the often drunk and always deaf Hank Raymonds carried the bulk of the blame.
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Kind of like with Ellenson, "disappointment" is relative when it comes to Rivers. He didn't have the kind of Marquette career that his ratings and talent suggested he would have ... but he wasn't Lloyd Moore or Harry Froling or some of the other ballyhooed catastrophes that have been mentioned by other Scoopers.
Rivers was often very good - just not consistently good enough given his talent.
I admit that it's hard for me to be overly critical of a guy who made my favorite shot by a Warrior during my time at Marquette. Personally, I've never heard a louder MU home-court reaction than when Glenn tossed in that 35-footer to beat evil ND. Not to mention that he was a great kid back then and has been a great ambassador for MU since.
Mike
I respect the fact that you have a personal history with Doc that includes pleasant memories on and off the court. And he was/is a great guy. But he remains the most highly rated (consensus top 5) player ever to wear a Marquette uniform and his three years here were mostly disappointing. The team didn’t do much and his numbers weren’t great.
I won’t list all the forwards and centers who were better at MU than Doc - I’ll stick to apples to apples comparisons. IMO The following guards had better careers at MU:
Meminger, Butch Lee, Tatum, Lloyd Walton, Wardle, Hutchins, Tony Miller, McNeal, James, Tony Smith, Worthen, Diener, Wade, DJO, Vander, Howard and Kolek. And almost all of these guys weren’t just better individually - they led their teams to more success than Doc did.
Doc was going to be the guy who returned MU to the top echelon of college basketball after a brief hiatus. It never happened. We didn’t come close and his numbers were only OK. So much was expected, so little was realized - And shortly thereafter the bottom fell out. Fairly or not, for that reason he’s my pick as our most disappointing recruit ever.
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Mike
I respect the fact that you have a personal history with Doc that includes pleasant memories on and off the court. And he was/is a great guy. But he remains the most highly rated (consensus top 5) player ever to wear a Marquette uniform and his three years here were mostly disappointing. The team didn’t do much and his numbers weren’t great.
I won’t list all the forwards and centers who were better at MU than Doc - I’ll stick to apples to apples comparisons. IMO The following guards had better careers at MU:
Meminger, Butch Lee, Tatum, Lloyd Walton, Wardle, Hutchins, Tony Miller, McNeal, James, Tony Smith, Worthen, Diener, Wade, DJO, Vander, Howard and Kolek. And almost all of these guys weren’t just better individually - they led their teams to more success than Doc did.
Doc was going to be the guy who returned MU to the top echelon of college basketball after a brief hiatus. It never happened. We didn’t come close and his numbers were only OK. So much was expected, so little was realized - And shortly thereafter the bottom fell out. Fairly or not, for that reason he’s my pick as our most disappointing recruit ever.
Reasonable argument, Tony.
When I think of "most disappointing," I think of a hyped recruit who was a total bust. But I totally get where you're coming from.
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I admit that it's hard for me to be overly critical of a guy who made my favorite shot by a Warrior during my time at Marquette. Personally, I've never heard a louder MU home-court reaction than when Glenn tossed in that 35-footer to beat evil ND. Not to mention that he was a great kid back then and has been a great ambassador for MU since.
We share this perspective completely.
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This is why Henry Ellenson is so high up on the disappointment rankings.
No moment and no engagement since.
It just felt dirty.
He’s been back a few times. I remember seeing him behind the bench his rookie year.
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Corey Floyd was the downfall of dukiet
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Lloyd Moore
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I've found this thread to actually be quite interesting. The number of "can't miss" prospects that missed was amazing. Many of these people, I've just forgotten about.
When push comes to shove, the "misses" break down into four categories:
1) Over-hyped -- Players that just weren't ready for prime time. These are guys that dominated high school and caught the eye of a recruiter. Unfortunately, when they got to college, their talent was quite pedestrian. We see less of this than in past years because of sports academies and summer leagues that are more consistent in the talent they bring to their leagues.
2) Crappy Coaching -- I'd be willing to bet that some of the bigger misses in MU history comes down to poor coaching. The recruit is indeed really good but he has a coach that doesn't bring the most out of him. Hello, Wojo?
3) Bad Habits -- Chocolate Moose was a classic. He ate his way out of school. Others are really good but don't have the internal drive to practice, hit the weight rooms or manage their diets the way they should. Drug use also falls into this category. Again, this probably is less a case today at Marquette with Shaka, but I'll betcha this is a bigger problem in the past than most admit.
4) Good Player/Bad Team -- Glenn Rivers and maybe Henry fell into this category. Both were extremely talented but the team wasn't of the caliber in which their talents mattered. While I thought Henry was ill-disciplined, I'll also note the team around him was so bad that no matter what he did, nothing mattered. If a team has only one legitimate threat, defenses collapse around the threat. There were times when Wojo's offense was so transparent that Henry was triple teamed. They knew.....
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#2, bad habits derailed Jayne Kennedy's nephew!!
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Harrison fell into the "when ya ain't got nothin', ya got nothin' to lose." Herb was goin' nowhere fast, hey?
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Harrison fell into the "when ya ain't got nothin', ya got nothin' to lose." Herb was goin' nowhere fast, hey?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CCJbr1mlHOV/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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PJ
I think Herb was her brother. Herb was a very, very nice guy and not much of a basketball player.