That was terrible other than a few scattered stretches. I thought it was a dismal performance with very little intensity or energy until it was too late. This team the last month has lost their focus and poise. There are way too many mistakes we make to list them all, but it's the combination of the turns and poor shot selection on offense combined with the matador interior D. The good news is even at a 10 or 11 seed you just never know. Needless to say I am extremely disappointed with how we played today.
Get on board now
11 seed? What are you talking about??
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 10, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
11 seed? What are you talking about??
What do you think? My guess is a 10.
8/9 game still feels likely, but 10 not out of the realm of possibility. Predictive metrics are not our friend.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 04:01:42 PM
What do you think? My guess is a 10.
9.....losing to CU in the BET doesn't drip you off the map.
10 seed could be a blessing - Wont matter with how we're playing but I'd rather 10 than 8 or 9.
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 10, 2022, 04:02:55 PM
9.....losing to CU in the BET doesn't drip you off the map.
It's probably better to be a 10. Anyway we have severe probs but you never know.
Creighton owned us this year. They are terrible match-up for us.
Frankly, any team that remotely rebounds the ball and shoots well without anyone contesting them is a really bad match-up for us.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 10, 2022, 04:05:57 PM
Creighton owned us this year. They are terrible match-up for us.
Frankly, any team that remotely rebounds the ball and shoots well without anyone contesting them is a really bad match-up for us.
Kalky is the main problem. We seemingly have no answers for him.
Our seed makes zero difference. The first round game is completely just based on matchups. The 6 to 11s are all almost the exact same talent wise.
Worrying about a marginally better second round opponent is silly. The first round is Marquette's super bowl. We haven't beaten a tournament team in a month and a half.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 10, 2022, 04:07:36 PM
Our seed makes zero difference. The first round game is completely just based on matchups. The 6 to 11s are all almost the exact same talent wise.
Worrying about a marginally better second round opponent is silly. The first round is Marquette's super bowl. We haven't beaten a tournament team in a month and a half.
Good points. I'm just dumbfounded we have played this poorly after so much optimism in Jan.
I've gone from "when does the tournament start!?!?!??!" to "I will watch out of obligation" for this year's NCAAs.
This stretch has been rough. But what made it worse is watching a team that doesn't play for each other right now. Too many "me's" and not enough heart and "playing for each other."
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 10, 2022, 04:07:36 PM
Our seed makes zero difference. The first round game is completely just based on matchups. The 6 to 11s are all almost the exact same talent wise.
Worrying about a marginally better second round opponent is silly. The first round is Marquette's super bowl. We haven't beaten a tournament team in a month and a half.
Much more concerned with how we're playing than I am our seed
Jake ...
You're right. Watching next week will be painful. They can't beat a semi decent team, and can't win a road game. A
real collapse in last month.
I didn't notice many adjustments to begin the 2nd half. We don't seem to have auxiliary plans when things go to H.
That Providence loss, ending our streak, was a heartbreaker and the team has never recovered...
Our program is historically a BET choker. We don't have a pedigree of success at the conference tourney level. Not an excuse but are we really that surprised given the last few weeks of conference play?
Big dance is all that matters. Just glad we're in this year. One win and I'll be over the moon.
...but yeah this game stunk. Creighton has been a huge stumbling block.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 04:11:30 PM
Good points. I'm just dumbfounded we have played this poorly after so much optimism in Jan.
Same. Discouraging that we never came up with a counter after teams figured out the pick and roll game we were killing people with. Everything went to crap since.
3-5 in last eight games, with wins over a terrible Georgetown team and a not so good Butler.
Same every year, but this is Shaka's first at MU. He has seen it before. I thought Shaka did some weird substitutions today starting with taking out Morsell for Elliott three minutes into game.
After today, I believe Elliotts days are numbered. Thanks for your years of play at MU, but we are moving on. His deficiency were noted by others. It's time
Shaka needs a big or two if Lewis bolts, and I see a contest at pg. Mitchell hardly played today.
Frustrating to say the least, probably went from a 6 to 9 seed in two weeks.
The worst part is that we've shown little improvement as the season has progressed.
- Last road win was Jan 26.
- 0-6 on the road since
- haven't beat a tournament team since 2/2
- dropped out of the top 25
- Defense has dropped well outside top 40
- and WORST of all the team has zero fight and is playing selfish iso basketball.
I'll give Shaka a C for the season, but it has certainly been a tale of two halves.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 10, 2022, 04:12:11 PM
I've gone from "when does the tournament start!?!?!??!" to "I will watch out of obligation" for this year's NCAAs.
This stretch has been rough. But what made it worse is watching a team that doesn't play for each other right now. Too many "me's" and not enough heart and "playing for each other."
I agree with the second part of this. But I will be pumped for the tourney come next Thursday. We didn't expect to be there and it's fun that we will be.
No offense or defense out of the 5 spot. Oso is all alone 10 ft from the basket and doesn't even look to shoot. Playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 when Kolek doesn't look to shoot is not a recipe for success . Offense breaks down to one on one
I'm surprised how the wheels came off again this year. The team played so cohesively until the UCONN game and they never got it back. They won some games since UCONN with the most recent performance against St. John's perhaps the strongest, but they are not close to the team they were before UCONN.
With a young team, I expected them to get better throughout the year. Very disappointing to see another year end this way.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on March 10, 2022, 04:31:35 PM
I'm surprised how the wheels came off again this year. The team played so cohesively until the UCONN game and they never got it back. They won some games since UCONN with the most recent performance against St. John's perhaps the strongest, but they are not close to the team they were before UCONN.
With a young team, I expected them to get better throughout the year. Very disappointing to see another year end this way.
Preach
91114 ...
I agree w / your post. Remember at the start of the year when ( most ) posters were saying...
" let's hope they improve and play better at end of the year " ?
They have not improved. They are playing worse ... and spinning out of control
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 10, 2022, 04:26:51 PM
The worst part is that we've shown little improvement as the season has progressed.
- Last road win was Jan 26.
- 0-6 on the road since
- haven't beat a tournament team since 2/2
- dropped out of the top 25
- Defense has dropped well outside top 40
- and WORST of all the team has zero fight and is playing selfish iso basketball.
I'll give Shaka a C for the season, but it has certainly been a tale of two halves.
Why do you think we have regressed?
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
Why do you think we have regressed?
I'm not a basketball expert, but my personal belief is that there was not enough scouting/tape on Marquette (both as a team and on individual players) to begin the year, and shaka's high-pressure Defense surprised a lot of teams. However, As the season carried on, teams found our weaknesses, and we have not been able to adapt. The lack of adaptation could be due to the current players on the roster (many have pointed out that this year's starters were nothing more than role players on previous teams) BUT It could also be due to coaching
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 10, 2022, 04:07:36 PM
Our seed makes zero difference. The first round game is completely just based on matchups. The 6 to 11s are all almost the exact same talent wise.
Worrying about a marginally better second round opponent is silly. The first round is Marquette's super bowl. We haven't beaten a tournament team in a month and a half.
heck, last ncaa tourney win was when, 2012?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 10, 2022, 04:48:26 PM
I'm not a basketball expert, but my personal belief is that there was not enough scouting/tape on Marquette (both as a team and on individual players) to begin the year, and shaka's high-pressure Defense surprised a lot of teams. However, As the season carried on, teams found our weaknesses, and we have not been able to adapt. The lack of adaptation could be due to the current players on the roster (many have pointed out that this year's starters were nothing more than role players on previous teams) BUT It could also be due to coaching
We don't seem to have a Plan B when they take the pick and roll away from Tyler. Kur has regressed as a defensive stopper on the back end when we try to press. And if the other team is good at rebounding, we are toast.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
Why do you think we have regressed?
Because our drive and long kick out game is now defended and the defense knows who can shoot and who can't. I don't think it is lack of adjustments by Shaka, but rather lack of complete or close to complete players. We have a couple three point shooters, but they aren't hard to take away when you don't have to worry about other three point shooters or a low post scorer. Once you realize our penetrators are not finishers, you don't have to leave your man and the passing lanes are gone. The only consistent offense we've been able to muster since the passing lanes have been denied are Lewis and Morsell getting into the lane for mid range jumpers or rim attacks. We desperately need a C who can play basketball in the Big East, and penetrators who can finish, because that will result in the ball movement we saw during our best stretch.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 10, 2022, 04:57:04 PM
Because our drive and long kick out game is now defended and the defense knows who can shoot and who can't. I don't think it is lack of adjustments by Shaka, but rather lack of complete or close to complete players. We have a couple three point shooters, but they aren't hard to take away when you don't have to worry about other three point shooters or a low post scorer. Once you realize our penetrators are not finishers, you don't have to leave your man and the passing lanes are gone. The only consistent offense we've been able to muster since the passing lanes have been denied are Lewis and Morsell getting into the lane for mid range jumpers or rim attacks. We desperately need a C who can play basketball in the Big East, and penetrators who can finish, because that will result in the ball movement we saw during our best stretch.
Fair enough but why has our defense also been a disaster? I don't disagree with your points but do think we could make a few adjustments. Imo it's not particularly smart for Lewis to launch so many threes. I think we can play through him much more in the high or wide post. If he's patient and understands where the double is coming from I feel we can move the ball and create far more open shots in the half-court.
Muggsy, I kept waiting for Lewis to do exactly that work out of the low or high post and look for cutters but previous posters have noted we have devolved into individual BB. With absolutely no post presence we are easy to contain. Does anyone work with Oso or KK? they both seem to be lost on the court
Quote from: WellsstreetWanderer on March 10, 2022, 05:30:55 PM
Muggsy, I kept waiting for Lewis to do exactly that work out of the low or high post and look for cutters but previous posters have noted we have devolved into individual BB. With absolutely no post presence we are easy to contain. Does anyone work with Oso or KK? they both seem to be lost on the court
Well....all I can say us right now we are not better on either end of the floor or on the glass playing our 5's. And they were pretty effective earlier in the season. We may have to go small depending on who we match up with.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 05:06:45 PM
Fair enough but why has our defense also been a disaster? I don't disagree with your points but do think we could make a few adjustments. Imo it's not particularly smart for Lewis to launch so many threes. I think we can play through him much more in the high or wide post. If he's patient and understands where the double is coming from I feel we can move the ball and create far more open shots in the half-court.
Well I do agree with you that we need to do the work to test the defense and get the ball in the paint and not take so many, many long jumpers so early.
I think the defense suffers some because Oso is not good down low, nor can Kuath guard a big man without help jus t from lack of strength. Kuath is a good help defender and teams have realized not to challenge him and either go to the post man who can muscle him or make the dump off pass when he challenges the driver. Teams are attacking Kolek more in the latter half of the season.
Our turnovers and poor shot selection lead to a lot of opportunities in transition, and we are not good defensive rebounders. For some reason we are getting beat down the court on occasion where we did not take a bad shot or turn the ball over, too. Despite all of what I just said, I still think our halfcourt defense through the opponent's initial shot is still very good.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 10, 2022, 05:35:54 PM
Well I do agree with you that we need to do the work to test the defense and get the ball in the paint and not take so many, many long jumpers so early.
I think the defense suffers some because Oso is not good down low, nor can Kuath guard a big man without help jus t from lack of strength. Kuath is a good help defender and teams have realized not to challenge him and either go to the post man who can muscle him or make the dump off pass when he challenges the driver. Teams are attacking Kolek more in the latter half of the season.
Our turnovers and poor shot selection lead to a lot of opportunities in transition, and we are not good defensive rebounders. For some reason we are getting beat down the court on occasion where we did not take a bad shot or turn the ball over, too. Despite all of what I just said, I still think our halfcourt defense through the opponent's initial shot is still very good.
Agree with all your points. Spot on. The biggest deficiency on this team is the 5 spot. Oso looks like a lost puppy out there more time than not. Kur struggles when he can't block shots. Neither is a good rebounder. Neither can score from 4 feet out. They commit too many silly turnovers. They get backed down way too easily forcing us to have to double down low. Hard to play 4 on 5 for 40 minutes, every single game.
The other players have deficiencies as well, but they have a lot of strong attributes to compensate. Getting 2 decent bigs next year is mandatory.
Agree that the 5 spot is the biggest problem. Kur looked great when TK could P&R, but that's been gone for a long time. He gets bodied and isn't a factor. Sadly, Oso no improvement. 39-27 on rebounds today, and unless that changes, we're not going anywhere.
It was a miserable showing, with little if any evidence of energy. The picture that sticks in my mind was one, when we were coming back and the end, had momentum, and it was truly a competitive game. We got a TO near the Creighton bench. Ordinarily, you'd expect college kids to be psyched! The camera angle show JL walking deliberately back to the other half of the court, and he could not have looked more disinterested. If he's not gowne, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
And if that's the case, it's going to take an All-American performance by Shaka in the transfer portal to keep us from being worse next year than this. Don't get me wrong, I thought that this year was far more successful than what I expected, and Kudos to SS for that. But if we lose JL, KK, DM, and who knows who else, I don't think the frosh we've signed will change the course of history.
He's fooled me once. Here's hoping he can do it again, and not emulate Wojo.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 10, 2022, 06:36:29 PM
Agree that the 5 spot is the biggest problem. Kur looked great when TK could P&R, but that's been gone for a long time. He gets bodied and isn't a factor. Sadly, Oso no improvement. 39-27 on rebounds today, and unless that changes, we're not going anywhere.
It was a miserable showing, with little if any evidence of energy. The picture that sticks in my mind was one, when we were coming back and the end, had momentum, and it was truly a competitive game. We got a TO near the Creighton bench. Ordinarily, you'd expect college kids to be psyched! The camera angle show JL walking deliberately back to the other half of the court, and he could not have looked more disinterested. If he's not gowne, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
And if that's the case, it's going to take an All-American performance by Shaka in the transfer portal to keep us from being worse next year than this. Don't get me wrong, I thought that this year was far more successful than what I expected, and Kudos to SS for that. But if we lose JL, KK, DM, and who knows who else, I don't think the frosh we've signed will change the course of history.
He's fooled me once. Here's hoping he can do it again, and not emulate Wojo.
This is a terrifying thought. I think we can find some guys.
Have we taken a charge on a downhill drive all season?
Quote from: drbob on March 10, 2022, 04:28:02 PM
No offense or defense out of the 5 spot. Oso is all alone 10 ft from the basket and doesn't even look to shoot. Playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 when Kolek doesn't look to shoot is not a recipe for success . Offense breaks down to one on one
This is 100% correct. That and unforced turnovers kill us.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 10, 2022, 04:57:04 PM
Because our drive and long kick out game is now defended and the defense knows who can shoot and who can't. I don't think it is lack of adjustments by Shaka, but rather lack of complete or close to complete players. We have a couple three point shooters, but they aren't hard to take away when you don't have to worry about other three point shooters or a low post scorer. Once you realize our penetrators are not finishers, you don't have to leave your man and the passing lanes are gone. The only consistent offense we've been able to muster since the passing lanes have been denied are Lewis and Morsell getting into the lane for mid range jumpers or rim attacks. We desperately need a C who can play basketball in the Big East, and penetrators who can finish, because that will result in the ball movement we saw during our best stretch.
Yep
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 10, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
Why do you think we have regressed?
Our downslope started the week that Marquette announced the large donation by the Smarts.
Coincidence, maybe.
Quote from: NCMUFan on March 10, 2022, 07:09:41 PM
Our downslope started the week that Marquette announced the large donation by the Smarts.
Coincidence, maybe.
That's it
Considering we will most likely be in the 7-10 seed range, what teams in that range would we rather play?
Quote from: GoldenDieners32 on March 10, 2022, 07:22:45 PM
Considering we will most likely be in the 7-10 seed range, what teams in that range would we rather play?
Iowa St? Rutgers? I coukd see an MU/Loyola match-up?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 10, 2022, 06:36:29 PM
Agree that the 5 spot is the biggest problem. Kur looked great when TK could P&R, but that's been gone for a long time. He gets bodied and isn't a factor. Sadly, Oso no improvement. 39-27 on rebounds today, and unless that changes, we're not going anywhere.
It was a miserable showing, with little if any evidence of energy. The picture that sticks in my mind was one, when we were coming back and the end, had momentum, and it was truly a competitive game. We got a TO near the Creighton bench. Ordinarily, you'd expect college kids to be psyched! The camera angle show JL walking deliberately back to the other half of the court, and he could not have looked more disinterested. If he's not gowne, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
And if that's the case, it's going to take an All-American performance by Shaka in the transfer portal to keep us from being worse next year than this. Don't get me wrong, I thought that this year was far more successful than what I expected, and Kudos to SS for that. But if we lose JL, KK, DM, and who knows who else, I don't think the frosh we've signed will change the course of history.
He's fooled me once. Here's hoping he can do it again, and not emulate Wojo.
Ummmm, no. He was nodding his head. Also, you may have noticed, JL is hardly ever demonstrative.
Not saying he is not gone, just that he was far from disinterested.
Quote from: NCMUFan on March 10, 2022, 07:09:41 PM
Our downslope started the week that Marquette announced the large donation by the Smarts.
Coincidence, maybe.
Good point - less philanthropy more film room.