As everybody remembers -- because it's brought up in just about every thread -- the 2018-19 team collapsed down the stretch. After choking away 4 straight games to blow the BEast regular-season title, Marquette had to face St. John's in the BET.
Many (perhaps even most) Scoopers predicted their alma mater would lose. A few even "guaranteed" it.
Welp ... Marquette 86, St. John's 54
And that was an NCAA tournament-bound St. John's team that won 21 games. And that was a Marquette team that was going through a team mutiny. And that game was in New York. And yet we won by 32.
So sure ... maybe we'll lose to St. John's at home on Saturday night. But I'm getting a kick out of those who are so certain it will happen. So bold. If it does happen, it'll be: "I told you so!" If it doesn't, it'll be: "I'm glad I was wrong."
We're gonna win Saturday. Probably not by 32, as was the case the last time so many Scoopers were so certain we'd lose an important game to the Johnnies, but we'll win.
We Are Marquette!
Agree
Hope you are right
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 07:52:49 PM
As everybody remembers -- because it's brought up in just about every thread -- the 2018-19 team collapsed down the stretch. After choking away 4 straight games to blow the BEast regular-season title, Marquette had to face St. John's in the BET.
Many (perhaps even most) Scoopers predicted their alma mater would lose. A few even "guaranteed" it.
Welp ... Marquette 86, St. John's 54
And that was an NCAA tournament-bound St. John's team that won 21 games. And that was a Marquette team that was going through a team mutiny. And that game was in New York. And yet we won by 32.
So sure ... maybe we'll lose to St. John's at home on Saturday night. But I'm getting a kick out of those who are so certain it will happen. So bold. If it does happen, it'll be: "I told you so!" If it doesn't, it'll be: "I'm glad I was wrong."
We're gonna win Saturday. Probably not by 32, as was the case the last time so many Scoopers were so certain we'd lose an important game to the Johnnies, but we'll win.
We Are Marquette!
Marquette will be favored and absolutely should win this game. The crowd almost willed an underperforming team to a win against Butler last time out on the home floor. It's hard to win on the road in college hoops - by far the toughest feat in team sports. I am optimistic MU rebounds and plays well on Senior Night.
I agree with the premise, but wasn't that BET game when we were completely fresh and StJ played the night before?
You can't guarantee anything in life but it would 100% lock us into the dance. I really hope we get it together.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 03, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
I agree with the premise, but wasn't that BET game when we were completely fresh and StJ played the night before?
Yep, St. John's played DePaul the previous night. And St. John's had its own down-the-stretch struggles, with 1-4 finish to the regular season.
But that didn't stop lots of Scoopers from being certain that their alma mater would lose to the Johnnies.
Top tier teams don't lose at DePaul last night, but Marquette is a good - not great - product this year. I think Shaka will build the program up to the "great" level. It's clear this years's version of MU basketball isn't there yet, and that's ok.
Quote from: bradforster on March 03, 2022, 09:17:32 PM
Top tier teams don't lose at DePaul last night, but Marquette is a good - not great - product this year. I think Shaka will build the program up to the "great" level. It's clear this years's version of MU basketball isn't there yet, and that's ok.
I don't know how you define "top tier," but I would agree that Marquette is not a great team.
In the past few days, ranked Alabama got crushed at home by going-nowhere Texas A&M, ranked Ohio State got beat at home by going-nowhere Nebraska, and the top 6 teams in the country all lost on Saturday.
DePaul certainly isn't a good team. But they were 4-4 in their last 8 games going into last night. The losses included by 3 at Providence, by 2 to Butler and by 2 at Seton Hall.
But yes, there's no explaining away or justifying last night's loss. It was terrible. It will be nice to get rid of that foul taste by beating St. John's on Saturday.
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
I don't know how you define "top tier," but I would agree that Marquette is not a great team.
In the past few days, ranked Alabama got crushed at home by going-nowhere Texas A&M, ranked Ohio State got beat at home by going-nowhere Nebraska, and the top 6 teams in the country all lost on Saturday.
DePaul certainly isn't a good team. But they were 4-4 in their last 8 games going into last night. The losses included by 3 at Providence, by 2 to Butler and by 2 at Seton Hall.
But yes, there's no explaining away or justifying last night's loss. It was terrible. It will be nice to get rid of that foul taste by beating St. John's on Saturday.
Auburn survived an OT scare at Miss St. last night. It's really hard to win on the road, especially in a charged environment on Senior Night. I'd say teams like Gonzaga, Arizona, Baylor, Villanova, Duke, Kentucky, Arkansas, Texas Tech - they don't lose that game in Chicago last night.
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
I don't know how you define "top tier," but I would agree that Marquette is not a great team.
In the past few days, ranked Alabama got crushed at home by going-nowhere Texas A&M, ranked Ohio State got beat at home by going-nowhere Nebraska, and the top 6 teams in the country all lost on Saturday.
DePaul certainly isn't a good team. But they were 4-4 in their last 8 games going into last night. The losses included by 3 at Providence, by 2 to Butler and by 2 at Seton Hall.
But yes, there's no explaining away or justifying last night's loss. It was terrible. It will be nice to get rid of that foul taste by beating St. John's on Saturday.
DePaul played great, and they have been close in so many games (as the broadcasters repeatedly reminded us of). It was the first loss in a while where I felt the wheels came off. That said, we beat St. Johns and win one in the NCAA.
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
I don't know how you define "top tier," but I would agree that Marquette is not a great team.
In the past few days, ranked Alabama got crushed at home by going-nowhere Texas A&M, ranked Ohio State got beat at home by going-nowhere Nebraska, and the top 6 teams in the country all lost on Saturday.
DePaul certainly isn't a good team. But they were 4-4 in their last 8 games going into last night. The losses included by 3 at Providence, by 2 to Butler and by 2 at Seton Hall.
But yes, there's no explaining away or justifying last night's loss. It was terrible. It will be nice to get rid of that foul taste by beating St. John's on Saturday.
The writing was on the wall. DePaul early season and Depaul late season is essentially two different teams. I'm not saying that makes them a good team, but the performances you listed help explain just a little MU getting stomped in the second half.
Home court is always a big advantage, but the St. Johns game may go down to the wire. Ask UCONN if they thought winning their game in NYC was a foregone conclusion. It took OT to get the job done. I think we will beat St. Johns. My confidence level is probably below yours though.
Quote from: bradforster on March 03, 2022, 09:17:32 PM
Top tier teams don't lose at DePaul last night, but Marquette is a good - not great - product this year. I think Shaka will build the program up to the "great" level. It's clear this years's version of MU basketball isn't there yet, and that's ok.
MU has not won a ncaa tourney game since 2012. Ok, not exactly breaking news. But, factor in in-state rival Wisconsin having another Final 4 caliber team, it's not really...ok. This rebuild from rebuild falling into averageville is tiresome. Why do you feel Shaka will have the success at Marquette that he did not have at Texas?
Quote from: Viper on March 04, 2022, 07:27:04 AM
MU has not won a ncaa tourney game since 2012. Ok, not exactly breaking news. But, factor in in-state rival Wisconsin having another Final 4 caliber team, it's not really...ok. This rebuild from rebuild falling into averageville is tiresome. Why do you feel Shaka will have the success at Marquette that he did not have at Texas?
YAWN
Quote from: Viper on March 04, 2022, 07:27:04 AM
MU has not won a ncaa tourney game since 2012. Ok, not exactly breaking news. But, factor in in-state rival Wisconsin having another Final 4 caliber team, it's not really...ok. This rebuild from rebuild falling into averageville is tiresome. Why do you feel Shaka will have the success at Marquette that he did not have at Texas?
Because he has had success before.
Because he does know how to win the post season, 3 conference tourny championships and a final four.
Because this team does look like it will make the big dance this year and has generally overachieved.
If you are basing your question on tiresome rebuilds then you really need to ask the question, why Wojo couldn't succeed and why we stuck with him as long as we did.
Quote from: Viper on March 04, 2022, 07:27:04 AM
MU has not won a ncaa tourney game since 2012. Ok, not exactly breaking news. But, factor in in-state rival Wisconsin having another Final 4 caliber team, it's not really...ok. This rebuild from rebuild falling into averageville is tiresome. Why do you feel Shaka will have the success at Marquette that he did not have at Texas?
Texas fired Rick Barnes...he seems to be doing just fine in TN. Shaka did just fine at VCU, and there were things to like/not like in TX. I love what I've seen on the court for the vast majority of the games this year. The other options would have been to hire a hot mid-major coach or a top assistant. If you didn't like Shaka in TX...it's hard for you to argue for hiring a hot mid-major coach (by your logic it didn't work in TX and not going any better in OK than at MU). Plenty of examples of top assistants not working out (Wojo). Not many people thought Shaka had a chance in hell of making the NCAA tourney this year...chill.
Quote from: bradforster on March 03, 2022, 09:36:12 PM
Auburn survived an OT scare at Miss St. last night. It's really hard to win on the road, especially in a charged environment on Senior Night. I'd say teams like Gonzaga, Arizona, Baylor, Villanova, Duke, Kentucky, Arkansas, Texas Tech - they don't lose that game in Chicago last night.
It's not exactly a JAPAN BOMBS PEARL HARBOR headline that Marquette is not as good as most if not all of those teams you named.
But the best teams don't always win, and we'll never know whether any of those teams would have lost to DePaul.
I mean, Nova lost twice to us, including on their home court, got stomped at Creighton, and barely beat St. John's. Arkansas lost by 22 at Oklahoma, lost to effen Hofstra, lost by 13 at Mississippi State and lost to Vanderbilt.
So who knows? (Except for you, I guess.)
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
I don't know how you define "top tier," but I would agree that Marquette is not a great team.
In the past few days, ranked Alabama got crushed at home by going-nowhere Texas A&M, ranked Ohio State got beat at home by going-nowhere Nebraska, and the top 6 teams in the country all lost on Saturday.
DePaul certainly isn't a good team. But they were 4-4 in their last 8 games going into last night. The losses included by 3 at Providence, by 2 to Butler and by 2 at Seton Hall.
But yes, there's no explaining away or justifying last night's loss. It was terrible. It will be nice to get rid of that foul taste by beating St. John's on Saturday.
Has this ever happened before?
Quote from: Warrior Code on March 04, 2022, 10:53:43 AM
Has this ever happened before?
When they reported on it said no
Quote from: bradforster on March 03, 2022, 09:36:12 PM
I'd say teams like Gonzaga, Arizona, Baylor, Villanova, Duke, Kentucky, Arkansas, Texas Tech - they don't lose that game in Chicago last night.
Quote from: MU82 on March 04, 2022, 10:32:26 AM
It's not exactly a JAPAN BOMBS PEARL HARBOR headline that Marquette is not as good as most if not all of those teams you named.
That's pretty much what I thought when I read that. "OK, so Marquette isn't one of the top 10 or 15 teams in country right now." Given where we've been for the past several years and where I expected us to be this year, I'm OK with that.
I don't like the way that Marquette has played the last several weeks. At all. It's concerning. If it was Wojo, I would think it's just more of the same pattern -- confirmation that he's not up to the job. But, since it's Shaka's first year, I honestly don't know what to make of it -- too early to tell. I know that "it takes five years to judge" has become a bit of a joke around here, but I don't think it's even debatable that it takes
more than one. And if someone insists on judging after just one year...well, I'm pretty sure we're going to be dancing in a couple weeks...
Quote from: Viper on March 04, 2022, 07:27:04 AM
MU has not won a ncaa tourney game since 2012. Ok, not exactly breaking news. But, factor in in-state rival Wisconsin having another Final 4 caliber team, it's not really...ok. This rebuild from rebuild falling into averageville is tiresome. Why do you feel Shaka will have the success at Marquette that he did not have at Texas?
2013
Quote from: Big Papi on March 04, 2022, 10:04:33 AM
Because he has had success before.
Because he does know how to win the post season, 3 conference tourny championships and a final four.
Because this team does look like it will make the big dance this year and has generally overachieved.
If you are basing your question on tiresome rebuilds then you really need to ask the question, why Wojo couldn't succeed and why we stuck with him as long as we did.
thx. Good reply. Much better than the idiot that posted 'yawn'.
Quote from: avid1010 on March 04, 2022, 10:29:16 AM
Texas fired Rick Barnes...he seems to be doing just fine in TN. Shaka did just fine at VCU, and there were things to like/not like in TX. I love what I've seen on the court for the vast majority of the games this year. The other options would have been to hire a hot mid-major coach or a top assistant. If you didn't like Shaka in TX...it's hard for you to argue for hiring a hot mid-major coach (by your logic it didn't work in TX and not going any better in OK than at MU). Plenty of examples of top assistants not working out (Wojo). Not many people thought Shaka had a chance in hell of making the NCAA tourney this year...chill.
fair enough. (Maybe I'm just hacked that in two weeks RED will play money games on our court.)
Quote from: bradforster on March 03, 2022, 09:04:54 PM
Marquette will be favored and absolutely should win this game. The crowd almost willed an underperforming team to a win against Butler last time out on the home floor. It's hard to win on the road in college hoops - by far the toughest feat in team sports. I am optimistic MU rebounds and plays well on Senior Night.
MU rebounds well? You are optimistic!
Quote from: THRILLHO on March 04, 2022, 05:44:17 PM
MU rebounds well? You are optimistic!
Bad word choice. :)
As I effen said.
I know we weren't playing great, but we actually have folks fearing St. John's and even effen Georgetown? What the hell?
We Are Marquette, goddam it!
Looking forward to another battle with Nova, this time in the BET title game.
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2022, 10:46:55 PM
As I effen said.
I know we weren't playing great, but we actually have folks fearing St. John's and even effen Georgetown? What the hell?
We Are Marquette, goddam it!
Looking forward to another battle with Nova, this time in the BET title game.
The fear about a home game vs St Johns was bewildering.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 10:47:51 PM
The fear about a home game vs St Johns was bewildering.
It really was. And then so many who consider themselves both MU fans and knowledgeable about basketball actually worrying about Georgetown, too. It's like bizarro world.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 10:47:51 PM
The fear about a home game vs St Johns was bewildering.
Did you pass out all of Feb?
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2022, 10:49:34 PM
It really was. And then so many who consider themselves both MU fans and knowledgeable about basketball actually worrying about Georgetown, too. It's like bizarro world.
I think you are 100% right when Marquette is playing like they were in January. Hell I made a ton of money betting on that line of thinking. But bewildering is a strong word the way we were playing entering this game.
82, I'm glad you were right and believe we are now in perfect position to do damage in the BET especially if they can clean up about 8-10 unforced errors per game.
Play like we did in January and we are loaded for bear.
Clean up the unforced TO's and missed bunnies - this team is good. Get some damn rebounds and they could be really good.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 05, 2022, 10:55:21 PM
I think you are 100% right when Marquette is playing like they were in January. Hell I made a ton of money betting on that line of thinking. But bewildering is a strong word the way we were playing entering this game.
82, I'm glad you were right and believe we are now in perfect position to do damage in the BET especially if they can clean up about 8-10 unforced errors per game.
Play like we did in January and we are loaded for bear.
I would have understood some trepidation if we were playing a good team on the road. But we were playing a meh team at home, on Senior Night, with a lot on the line for us and little on the line for them.
Folks get too pessimistic too easily. So many were insisting that these final few weeks were some kind of carryover from "fades" involving teams that had absolutely nothing to do with this one. Just silliness.
Anyhoo, I absolutely agree that if we can find the January mojo, we'll be a beyotch for our opponents. Creighton's the first to fall. Looking forward to it1
Quote from: PointWarrior on March 05, 2022, 11:01:02 PM
Clean up the unforced TO's and missed bunnies - this team is good. Get some damn rebounds and they could be really good.
I agree. Can we ask Darrell to hit the gym for the next three days and do nothing but dribble and pass a BB? Some of his turnovers are confounding.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 05, 2022, 10:49:51 PM
Did you pass out all of Feb?
Nope. Watched every game.
It was fair to be concerned about tonight. I was. I also fully expected a win. There's a difference between concern and peeing your pants over a game.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
It was fair to be concerned about tonight. I was. I also fully expected a win. There's a difference between concern and peeing your pants over a game.
Hah. I expect only a few Scoopers peed their pants tonight, but those folks probably wear diapers any time they go out these days.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 10:47:51 PM
The fear about a home game vs St Johns was bewildering.
Not bewildering. I wasn't afraid, but I get it.
A few possessions the other way in the last 5 minutes and MU is playing Georgetown on wed and the fans implode and the players/coach are filled with doubt.
It was a huge game, and the fear was warranted. StJ played well and it wasn't an easy win
Quote from: DoctorV on March 05, 2022, 11:09:21 PM
Not bewildering. I wasn't afraid, but I get it.
A few possessions the other way in the last 5 minutes and MU is playing Georgetown on wed and the fans implode and the players/coach are filled with doubt.
It was a huge game, and the fear was warranted. StJ played well and it wasn't an easy win
Disagree and maybe it's just semantics. I see a pretty big difference between fear and concern.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 11:19:09 PM
Disagree and maybe it's just semantics. I see a pretty big difference between fear and concern.
Ok well let's talk data then.
At this point in the season a win or loss can mean a seed line in the dance.
If MU loses they likely can't get up to the 7 line or better without a run to the final, or win, of the BET imo.
If they lose and lose to Gtown that's possibly a 10 seed, but definitely no bette than 8/9.
With this win, if they win on Thursday I'm still confident in a 7 seed. If they win the BET I'd be shocked if they didn't get a 6 or better- keep in mind that would mean like 9 Q1 wins which is top 3 in the country, a very solid SOS and an overall record of 22-11 with 2/3 wins over Providence and Villanova (top 4 seeds).
So that's a possibility of a 10 seed to 6/5seed swing in one calendar week.
The probability of winning a single game as a 10, or an 8/9, versus a 7 or a 6 is quite different.
So, MU now has a nice draw to go show that it deserves that 7 or 6 seed
Fear St. John's at home? And even Georgetown? That's just silly.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 05, 2022, 11:29:22 PM
Ok well let's talk data then.
At this point in the season a win or loss can mean a seed line in the dance.
If MU loses they likely can't get up to the 7 line or better without a run to the final, or win, of the BET imo.
If they lose and lose to Gtown that's possibly a 10 seed, but definitely no bette than 8/9.
With this win, if they win on Thursday I'm still confident in a 7 seed. If they win the BET I'd be shocked if they didn't get a 6 or better- keep in mind that would mean like 9 Q1 wins which is top 3 in the country, a very solid SOS and an overall record of 22-11 with 2/3 wins over Providence and Villanova (top 4 seeds).
So that's a possibility of a 10 seed to 6/5seed swing in one calendar week.
The probability of winning a single game as a 10, or an 8/9, versus a 7 or a 6 is quite different.
So, MU now has a nice draw to go show that it deserves that 7 or 6 seed
All great but that has zero to do with what I was discussing.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2022, 11:33:37 PM
All great but that has zero to do with what I was discussing.
My point is that you have to take the fear in context.
The fear wasn't because of St. John's, it was because of the importance of the game and the recent performances.
If you sit in on an MRI after you decimate your knee you aren't as scared as if you sit in on that same machine if you are following up on suspicious biopsy results
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2022, 10:46:55 PM
As I effen said.
I know we weren't playing great, but we actually have folks fearing St. John's and even effen Georgetown? What the hell?
We Are Marquette, goddam it!
Looking forward to another battle with Nova, this time in the BET title game.
No COLEslaw, hey?
Nice call!
I have had confidence going into most games this year but I hated this game matchup-wise.
Holding a lead against a pressure team like St. John's from wire to wire is impressive. Nice tune up for the games that matter most!