MUScoop

We are a lock for the tourney. I'd also say our seed range has coalesced into a relatively narrow range. Win the BET and I think we're looking at no better than a 5. Lose out and we should be at worst a 10. But most results probably beep us between a 6 and a 9. I suppose depending how things go either of those extreme options could lead to a 4 or 11 but that's why I put the other category.

Seed REALLY matters. Jumping from a 10 to an 8/9 improves the odds of first round win from 40% to 50%. Jumping from 8/9 to a 7/6 improves it to 60%. Jumping from an 8 to a 6 improves the odds of a S16 from 10% to 30% (incidentally better to be a 10 than an 8/9 for S16 aspirations). Interestingly, not that much difference between a 5 and a 6 for 1st round win or S16.

I'd really like a 6 seed. I think we need to win our next 2 and the first round BET to get that. Eminently doable. Let's go Marquette.

https://www.boydsbets.com/bracket-tips-by-seed/

Quote from: 1SE on March 01, 2022, 01:55:55 AM
We are a lock for the tourney. I'd also say our seed range has coalesced into a relatively narrow range. Win the BET and I think we're looking at no better than a 5. Lose out and we should be at worst a 10. But most results probably beep us between a 6 and a 9. I suppose depending how things go either of those extreme options could lead to a 4 or 11 but that's why I put the other category.

Seed REALLY matters. Jumping from a 10 to an 8/9 improves the odds of first round win from 40% to 50%. Jumping from 8/9 to a 7/6 improves it to 60%. Jumping from an 8 to a 6 improves the odds of a S16 from 10% to 30% (incidentally better to be a 10 than an 8/9 for S16 aspirations). Interestingly, not that much difference between a 5 and a 6 for 1st round win or S16.

I'd really like a 6 seed. I think we need to win our next 2 and the first round BET to get that. Eminently doable. Let's go Marquette.

https://www.boydsbets.com/bracket-tips-by-seed/

I think for a 6 we gotta do 2-0 and then beat both Creighton and Prov in the BET. Which I feel really good about doing.

If SHU and their 30ish NET ends up being the 4/5 oppenent. Then maybe 2-0 and just a win over SHU is enough to move to 6.

Have to win out for any chance at a 5. And that will still rely on the committee taking BET results into good consideration.

I think we need 3-1 or better to feel good about getting a 6 seed.  5 is probably the ceiling if we win out.

0-3 and 10 seed is probably the floor. 

2-1 or 2-2 and we're probably a 7 or 8.

The NCCA is a crapshoot. Seed 1 or 16 does not matter.  ::)

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 01, 2022, 09:53:08 AM
The NCCA is a crapshoot. Seed 1 or 16 does not matter.  ::)

National Collegiate Crap Association?

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 01, 2022, 09:53:08 AM
The NCCA is a crapshoot. Seed 1 or 16 does not matter.  ::)

It is a crapshoot. But the better the seed,  the better a shot you have at winning the crapshoot

This is an unusual year.  I don't see a dominant team, even on the #1 line.  I think a #6 would be most ideal for us but I'd take a #7. 

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 01, 2022, 10:29:17 AM
It is a crapshoot. But the better the seed,  the better a shot you have at winning the crapshoot

Sooo.... not a crapshoot at all.

crapshoot
SINGULAR NOUN [a N]
If you describe something as a crapshoot, you mean that what happens depends entirely on luck or chance.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 01, 2022, 10:51:24 AM
Sooo.... not a crapshoot at all.

crapshoot
SINGULAR NOUN [a N]
If you describe something as a crapshoot, you mean that what happens depends entirely on luck or chance.

Wondering where you found that definition.

Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crapshoot) - "something (such as a business venture) that has an unpredictable outcome"
Google/Oxford (https://www.google.com/search?q=crapshoot&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS959US959&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) - "a risky or uncertain matter"
Dictionary.com (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/crapshoot) - "anything unpredictable, risky, or problematical; gamble"

Depending on you definition of 'crapshoot' all games are crapshoots. There is no guaranteed outcome. To use a reference from the etymology of 'crapshoot' (the game craps) owning a casino is a crapshoot. The house can loose but I'd take their odds as opposed to the players and I'd rather be a 1 seed than 16. 

Years of data support Vegas odds and NCAA seeds as reliable (not perfect in either case) predictors of outcomes.

My personal definition of a 'crapshoot' is where you really have no idea of the probable outcome (i.e. a 0 - 2pt spread) or rolling a dice.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 01, 2022, 12:20:41 PM
Depending on you definition of 'crapshoot' all games are crapshoots. There is no guaranteed outcome. To use a reference from the etymology of 'crapshoot' (the game craps) owning a casino is a crapshoot. The house can loose but I'd take their odds as opposed to the players and I'd rather be a 1 seed than 16. 

Years of data support Vegas odds and NCAA seeds as reliable (not perfect in either case) predictors of outcomes.

My personal definition of a 'crapshoot' is where you really have no idea of the probable outcome (i.e. a 0 - 2pt spread) or rolling a dice.

Assuming you've got enough funds to withstand a bad run (and they do), owning a casino isn't a crapshoot. It's math. Generally speaking, they can tell you what percentage of $1 million crossing the table (or $10 million or $100 million) they're going to keep. They know that even factoring in optimal play (and few people play optimally) they're going to come out ahead. For example, consider why there is a green zero on the roulette wheel. Now that game really is a "crapshoot! (using your definition above) ;). Same goes for rolling dice (in craps). If you roll them 1000 times, it's not all that difficult to predict about how many times you're going to roll a seven. If you roll them 1,000,000 times, even easier.

But I agree totally with your underlying point: I'd much rather be a 1 seed than a 16.

Regardless of seed, the first round game is going to be a complete crapshoot. It solely depends on the matchup.

I'm not one to say we can't look ahead, but to me the first round game is our super bowl and is all I'm focused on this season. Everything else is gravy.

If MU makes it past the second round, they will be playing a very good team unless there is some crazy upset. Whether that is Purdue, Baylor, or Arkansas, or whatever, it doesn't really make much difference to me personally. I think the top teams are all roughly the same and we could beat anybody on a given night.

Once you think about it, every game ever is a crapshoot. Maybe life itself is just a crapshoot.

Quote from: panda on March 01, 2022, 12:49:10 PM
Once you think about it, every game ever is a crapshoot. Maybe life itself is just a crapshoot.

You're not wrong.

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 01, 2022, 07:03:21 AM
I think for a 6 we gotta do 2-0 and then beat both Creighton and Prov in the BET. Which I feel really good about doing.

If SHU and their 30ish NET ends up being the 4/5 oppenent. Then maybe 2-0 and just a win over SHU is enough to move to 6.

Have to win out for any chance at a 5. And that will still rely on the committee taking BET results into good consideration.

Marquette is probably going to face Seton Hall in the 1st round of the Big East Tournament unfortunately.

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 01, 2022, 12:38:25 PM
Assuming you've got enough funds to withstand a bad run (and they do), owning a casino isn't a crapshoot. It's math. Generally speaking, they can tell you what percentage of $1 million crossing the table (or $10 million or $100 million) they're going to keep. They know that even factoring in optimal play (and few people play optimally) they're going to come out ahead. For example, consider why there is a green zero on the roulette wheel. Now that game really is a "crapshoot! (using your definition above) ;). Same goes for rolling dice (in craps). If you roll them 1000 times, it's not all that difficult to predict about how many times you're going to roll a seven. If you roll them 1,000,000 times, even easier.

But I agree totally with your underlying point: I'd much rather be a 1 seed than a 16.

Good points. I agree it was maybe not an apples to apples comparison. My original post was a poke at those those chalked up Wojo's failures to the 'crapshoopt' nature of the NCAA (and I suppose the regular season also) and not poor coaching, preparation or execution. If it were a 'crapshoot' then abandoning seedings and having a random draw for opponents would make sense. I think we can all agree that will not (nor should not) happen.

Or maybe I was just being suckered into trolling.   

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 01, 2022, 01:01:29 PM
Marquette is probably going to face Seton Hall in the 1st round of the Big East Tournament unfortunately.

If by "probably" you mean "not the most likely outcome"

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 01, 2022, 12:20:41 PM
Depending on you definition of 'crapshoot' all games are crapshoots.

There! You get it!

All single games are crapshoots. Any given night, any team can play their worst game of the season or play a team that plays their best game of the season, or both. 99 times out of a 100, Virginia curbstomps UMBC. But if their NCAAT game happens to be that 100th time, UMBC wins and Virginia is knocked out of the NCAAT.

The more games you play, the less of a crapshoot it becomes. The better team is more likely to win more games over multiple opportunities than they are to win a single game in one opportunity. So individual regular season games are a crapshoot, but the entire regular season, conference tournament, and postseason combined are far from a crapshoot.

That is all that is meant by the "NCAAT is a crapshoot" meme. If you solely judge coaches based on their performance in the NCAAT, you are choosing to only look at a single game (or a max of 6 games) instead of looking at the entire body of work. Tony Bennett had a very good year in 17-18, with a craptastic ending. If you look at just his game against UMBC, you would call him a garbage coach. If you look at his whole body of work, you wouldn't be surprised if he won the national championship a year later. Kevin Ollie had a player go nuclear hot and they won a national championship together after a mediocre (by their standards at the time) season. Over the next few years he led them down the toilet bowl before getting canned.

And please, this isn't a wojo thing. That meme well pre-dates Wojo being hired. And if Wojo had beaten South Carolina or Murray State, personally wouldn't have changed my opinion that he needed to be fired after last season. And that's the danger of overvaluing March when evaluating coaches. You talk yourself into saying a bad coach is a good one because he won a game or two at the end of the season. Georgetown may have fallen into the trap with Ewing after his miracle run to win the BET last season.

Seeds are what matter. If you have a coach consistently earning you protected seeds, eventually you will break through to the second weekend and final four.

I agree with the poster who said Game #1 of the tournament is our Super Bowl. Scoopers are mentally prepared that whoever Game #2 is against is going to be a "bad matchup" because it's going to feature very, very good basketball players in an arena close to their home, correct?

While it's true that the 2nd round game will most probably be against a really good team, the reason we are so eager to get that first win is that it's been damn near ten years since we've had one.  Put that on top of the expectations going into the season and you have a 1st round "Super Bowl" of sorts. 

With the B10 having such a strong year and the ACC having such a crappy year, I feel like a lot of 6-8 seeds are going to get really tough first round matchups. 

I don't care what their regular season record is, drawing UNC, Indiana, Michigan, (or even possibly Mich St. should they crap out down the stretch) in the first round would be a downer. 

Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 01, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
I agree with the poster who said Game #1 of the tournament is our Super Bowl. Scoopers are mentally prepared that whoever Game #2 is against is going to be a "bad matchup" because it's going to feature very, very good basketball players in an arena close to their home, correct?

I'll have more on potential matchups later in the week, but you're correct that there aren't many favorable matchups among the top three seed lines.

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 01, 2022, 01:53:35 PM
If by "probably" you mean "not the most likely outcome"

It's the most likely.

Creighton loses to UConn and Seton Hall.

Marquette wins at least 1 game. That's it.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 01, 2022, 04:51:42 PM
It's the most likely.

Creighton loses to UConn and Seton Hall.

Marquette wins at least 1 game. That's it.

Disagree

I am pumped that we are back to have a seeding dialogue.

For now my focus is on beating a scrappy  Blue Demon squad on the road, with the help of the MU faithful filling up Wintrust. Then garner a solid win over The Johnnies  . I believe we will do well in The Garden in the BET and be in line for a respectable seed.

The  number of our Quality Wins will be noticed by the committee. It seems every year in the interview with the Committee Chairman after the field is announced they point to Quality Wins as a key factor in their decisions. 

 

Proper characterization of the COLE cult.

Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 01, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
I agree with the poster who said Game #1 of the tournament is our Super Bowl. Scoopers are mentally prepared that whoever Game #2 is against is going to be a "bad matchup" because it's going to feature very, very good basketball players in an arena close to their home, correct?

Quote from: PointWarrior on March 01, 2022, 10:03:45 PM
Proper characterization of the COLE cult.

Are you from the Department of Redundancy Department?

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 01, 2022, 10:10:52 PM
Are you from the Department of Redundancy Department?

Haha that's a great line. I'm stealing it.

But he is def part of the COLE. It's funny, he calls people out on it but definitely is part of
The COLE that he speaks of.

Yeah, sure. Whatever.

Expressing they have been playing like dog crap lately and expecting better is now COLE, ok, then I am "COLE" with it.

Quote from: fjm on March 01, 2022, 10:32:56 PM
Haha that's a great line. I'm stealing it.

But he is def part of the COLE. It's funny, he calls people out on it but definitely is part of
The COLE that he speaks of.

Quote from: PointWarrior on March 01, 2022, 10:34:35 PM
Yeah, sure. Whatever.

Just stating facts bruh. You def in COLE yourself.

Just because some people forecast us for a 7th or 8th seed doesn't mean the ncaa thinks the same.   There are always a couple of teams that everyone thought were locks and they didn't make it.  I really believe we have to win the last 2 and win the first in the tourney to get a 6 or 7.   We could end up a 10 or worse by losing to depaul or St John's.

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 01, 2022, 05:24:59 PM
Disagree

Why? Creighton's PG broke his wrist and is out for the year.

They likely aren't beating UConn or Seton Hall.  If they don't and Marquette wins at least 1 game then Creighton falls to the 6.

That's most likely.

Since 1985 here's the breakdown of National Champions by seed:

SEED  NUMBER OF CHAMPS  PERCENTAGE OF CHAMPS
   1                   23                             64%
   2                    5                              14%
   3                    4                              11%
   4                    1                                3%
   5                    0                                0%
   6                    1                                3%
   7                    1                                3%
   8                    1                                3%

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 01, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
Why? Creighton's PG broke his wrist and is out for the year.

They likely aren't beating UConn or Seton Hall.  If they don't and Marquette wins at least 1 game then Creighton falls to the 6.

That's most likely.

I'm not sure about that with both games being in Omaha.

Quote from: bradforster on March 01, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Since 1985 here's the breakdown of National Champions by seed:

SEED  NUMBER OF CHAMPS  PERCENTAGE OF CHAMPS
   1                   23                             64%
   2                    5                              14%
   3                    4                              11%
   4                    1                                3%
   5                    0                                0%
   6                    1                                3%
   7                    1                                3%
   8                    1                                3%

And honestly, without taking too big of a dive into the metrics, Villanova was probably very underseeded in 1985

Quote from: bradforster on March 01, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Since 1985 here's the breakdown of National Champions by seed:

SEED  NUMBER OF CHAMPS  PERCENTAGE OF CHAMPS
   1                   23                             64%
   2                    5                              14%
   3                    4                              11%
   4                    1                                3%
   5                    0                                0%
   6                    1                                3%
   7                    1                                3%
   8                    1                                3%

The curse of the 5 seed

Quote from: bradforster on March 01, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Since 1985 here's the breakdown of National Champions by seed:

SEED  NUMBER OF CHAMPS  PERCENTAGE OF CHAMPS
   1                   23                             64%
   2                    5                              14%
   3                    4                              11%
   4                    1                                3%
   5                    0                                0%
   6                    1                                3%
   7                    1                                3%
   8                    1                                3%

According to this, 6,7, or 8 gives us an equal chance!  😂

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 01, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
Why? Creighton's PG broke his wrist and is out for the year.

They likely aren't beating UConn or Seton Hall.  If they don't and Marquette wins at least 1 game then Creighton falls to the 6.

That's most likely.

Disagree. Most likely they win 1 of 2.

The PG is still 18, 6 feet tall, and has an 87 ORtg in Conf play.

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 02, 2022, 12:30:33 AM
And honestly, without taking too big of a dive into the metrics, Villanova was probably very underseeded in 1985

Villanova was not underseeded in 1985.

They underperformed during the season and finally played to their potential in the tournament.

This is an annual pet peeve of mine. When a team with a low seed advances far in the tournament (like UCLA) last year it doesn't mean the seed was wrong. The Selection Committee focuses a lot more on what a team actually does during the season than what they should be capable of doing.

Ditto for a team that has a high seed and is eliminated early. If people without the benefit of hindsight are able to identify underseeded and overseeded  teams, let them cash in on their wisdom with bets on games or in bracket pools.

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 02, 2022, 07:19:06 AM
Disagree. Most likely they win 1 of 2.

The PG is still 18, 6 feet tall, and has an 87 ORtg in Conf play.

The guy indirectly stepping in for him is also a freshman who is much worse.

They're lucky both games are at home. They'll need all the help the can get.

Quote from: wisblue on March 02, 2022, 08:17:13 AM
Villanova was not underseeded in 1985.

They underperformed during the season and finally played to their potential in the tournament.

Agreed. They were 19-10 and while they had some nice wins, that record is going to cap your seed. Maybe they could've been a 5 ahead of LSU, but certainly no higher than that.

Quote from: bradforster on March 01, 2022, 10:56:11 PM
Since 1985 here's the breakdown of National Champions by seed:

SEED  NUMBER OF CHAMPS  PERCENTAGE OF CHAMPS
   1                   23                             64%
   2                    5                              14%
   3                    4                              11%
   4                    1                                3%
   5                    0                                0%
   6                    1                                3%
   7                    1                                3%
   8                    1                                3%

Yep, total crapshoot. ::)

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 02, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
Yep, total crapshoot. ::)

Again, not what that meme means.

6 or 7 it is then

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2022, 01:11:39 PM
Again, not what that meme means.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1x0w7l.jpg)

Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 02, 2022, 04:34:16 PM

It's been explained to you (and you agreed) that the individual games are a crapshoot. Anything can happen in a single game. That's all that is meant by crapshoot. No one has ever said that seeding doesn't matter or that the NCAAT is decided by random chance. But keep building that strawman.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
It's been explained to you (and you agreed) that the individual games are a crapshoot. Anything can happen in a single game. That's all that is meant by crapshoot. No one has ever said that seeding doesn't matter or that the NCAAT is decided by random chance. But keep building that strawman.

I was just having some fun. No intention to offend anyone.

Back on topic, I would not be surprised, as of today, by any seed from 5-10. Lots of basketball yet to be played.

Buzz has a 10 point lead at Alabama late.

He's still helping Marquette even when he's not here.

Iowa State also losing to ineligible Oklahoma State at home.

Only have 33 total points with 4 minutes left.

Nice results for Marquette so far.

We are gonna be a 9 seed if we lose this.

How many threads are you gonna post this in?

10

There isn't a universe in which we'd get bounced if we lose badly to the Johnnies and in the BET right?! Losing 1 game to DePaul always feels like it counts as 5...

Seed don't matter, this team playing as they have played since Villanova is not going anywhere, may not even win another game this year.

Quote from: NinjaWes on March 02, 2022, 10:12:23 PM
There isn't a universe in which we'd get bounced if we lose badly to the Johnnies and in the BET right?! Losing 1 game to DePaul always feels like it counts as 5...

Losing to DePaul, St Johns and Georgetown to end the year is not out of the realm of possibility.

Quote from: NinjaWes on March 02, 2022, 10:12:23 PM
There isn't a universe in which we'd get bounced if we lose badly to the Johnnies and in the BET right?! Losing 1 game to DePaul always feels like it counts as 5...

no but two blowouts to finish out puts dayton in the convo.

Quote from: Shark on March 02, 2022, 10:04:31 PM
10

Nah. They are a 9 after tonight.

Might be able to chalk up Saturday as an L though. Champagnie is better than Freeman-Liberty and Posh Alexander is the best on ball defender in the league.

Nightmare matchup for Kolek with how he's looked lately.  Not sure MU has the legs to finish out the week. Justin struggled to get up and down the court tonight. Greg got hurt. Kur couldn't stay on the floor.

Lose Saturday and they are a 10.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:20:39 PM
Nah. They are a 9 after tonight.

Might be able to chalk up Saturday as an L though. Champagnie is better than Freeman-Liberty and Posh Alexander is the best on ball defender in the league.

Nightmare matchup for Kolek with how he's looked lately.  Not sure MU has the legs to finish out the week. Justin struggled to get up and down the court tonight. Greg got hurt. Kur couldn't stay on the floor.

Lose Saturday and they are a 10.

That was baked in. I will be shocked if they win another game this year.

Quote from: Shark on March 02, 2022, 10:21:21 PM
That was baked in. I will be shocked if they win another game this year.

Ahhh got it.  If they lose to St. John's they'll have to play Georgetown so they should win that one at least.

Quote from: Shark on March 02, 2022, 10:21:21 PM
That was baked in. I will be shocked if they win another game this year.

youll be shocked if they beat st johns at home with packed house? 🙃

Quote from: Johnny B on March 02, 2022, 10:28:04 PM
youll be shocked if they beat st johns at home with packed house? 🙃

Yes. We are fresh off watching this team struggle vs GTown and Butler at home.

Quote from: Shark on March 02, 2022, 10:29:36 PM
Yes. We are fresh off watching this team struggle vs GTown and Butler at home.

They'll win Saturday.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 02, 2022, 10:31:46 PM
They'll win Saturday.

St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

I haven't watched a ton of Depaul this year but I did watch them Sunday and today. That team is not bad at all. If they were in the Horizon league I'd bet on them to go the S16. They're clicking right now and hard to beat 90+ points.

Of course they'll have to settle for the NIT.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

their best win is seton hall. they lossed to every ranked team they faced. they aint good. depaul looks solid since liberty returned

Quote from: Johnny B on March 02, 2022, 10:46:04 PM
their best win is seton hall. they lossed to every ranked team they faced. they aint good. depaul looks solid since liberty returned

Right now Xavier and Marquette are the same team.

St. John's just rolled Xavier. It could get ugly on Saturday night!

You sure seem to be reveling in this. Still basking in the glow of the UW win?

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:48:01 PM
Right now Xavier and Marquette are the same team.

St. John's just rolled Xavier. It could get ugly on Saturday night!

LOL

Why do we think that every Marquette team that has been halfway decent since 2013 has faded late in the year?

Marquette used to get better as the season went on.  Guys look scared in February and March around here when they used to look determined.

This team beat Nova twice and had guys locked in for 3 or 4 weeks and now they can't even dribble the ball up the court against DePaul and Butler. The mystery continues.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

Our guys are not as energetic as they were.  They turned it up. a notch with a few minutes left vs DePaul, but overall, I think you are right.  17 turnovers and 12 assists says a lot

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:54:04 PM
Why do we think that every Marquette team that has been halfway decent since 2013 has faded late in the year?

Marquette used to get better as the season went on.  Guys look scared in February and March around here when they used to look determined.

For something to legitimately be a "trend," there has to be commonality of participants.

For the previous several years, that meant Wojo, of course, and a few common players like Markus, Theo, Sam, Sacar, etc.

But there is just about no common thread between the last several teams of down-the-stretch-faders and this one. Lewis and Elliott weren't even starters last season, and Oso wasn't even a bit player. It's almost an all-new team, and there's an all-new coaching staff. So unless simply having "Marquette" on the front of a jersey predisposes a team to play poorly down the stretch, there is "reason" for all of this.

But some folks sure love to talk about this make-believe trend, and some seem to actually be enjoying this team's recent struggles.

Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2022, 11:34:12 PM
But there is just about no common thread between the last several teams of down-the-stretch-faders and this one. Lewis and Elliott weren't even starters last season, and Oso wasn't even a bit player. It's almost an all-new team, and there's an all-new coaching staff. So unless simply having "Marquette" on the front of a jersey predisposes a team to play poorly down the stretch, there is "reason" for all of this.

But some folks sure love to talk about this make-believe trend, and some seem to actually be enjoying this team's recent struggles.

Thank you.

If they win Saturday, they're 4-4 in Feb/March after a 7-2 January.

What a collapse that would be.

Yep, different coaches, different players, different seasons - we as marquette fans get to watch 2 completely different crap the bed Februaries.

Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2022, 11:34:12 PM
For something to legitimately be a "trend," there has to be commonality of participants.

For the previous several years, that meant Wojo, of course, and a few common players like Markus, Theo, Sam, Sacar, etc.

But there is just about no common thread between the last several teams of down-the-stretch-faders and this one. Lewis and Elliott weren't even starters last season, and Oso wasn't even a bit player. It's almost an all-new team, and there's an all-new coaching staff. So unless simply having "Marquette" on the front of a jersey predisposes a team to play poorly down the stretch, there is "reason" for all of this.

But some folks sure love to talk about this make-believe trend, and some seem to actually be enjoying this team's recent struggles.

Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2022, 11:34:12 PM
For something to legitimately be a "trend," there has to be commonality of participants.

For the previous several years, that meant Wojo, of course, and a few common players like Markus, Theo, Sam, Sacar, etc.

But there is just about no common thread between the last several teams of down-the-stretch-faders and this one. Lewis and Elliott weren't even starters last season, and Oso wasn't even a bit player. It's almost an all-new team, and there's an all-new coaching staff. So unless simply having "Marquette" on the front of a jersey predisposes a team to play poorly down the stretch, there is "reason" for all of this.

But some folks sure love to talk about this make-believe trend, and some seem to actually be enjoying this team's recent struggles.

Unless of course it has also been a trend for Shaka Smart in his past years.  I'm a little less familiar with his past, so that's why I was asking the question.

I thought it was pretty clear that they could compete with anyone midway through the year and that's not really the case anymore.  Just trying to figure out how this keeps happening here whether it's the players fault or not.  I believe it usually lies with the coaching.

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 01, 2022, 07:03:21 AM
I think for a 6 we gotta do 2-0 and then beat both Creighton and Prov in the BET. Which I feel really good about doing.

If SHU and their 30ish NET ends up being the 4/5 oppenent. Then maybe 2-0 and just a win over SHU is enough to move to 6.

Have to win out for any chance at a 5. And that will still rely on the committee taking BET results into good consideration.

Beat Creighton? McDermott owns Shaka.

Quote from: willie warrior on March 03, 2022, 05:19:07 AM
Beat Creighton? McDermott owns Shaka.

Yes, two games proves that.  Your basketball genius is unparalleled.  Surprised you don't coach.  Have you considered it?  You have all the answers

Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2022, 11:34:12 PM


But some folks sure love to talk about this make-believe trend, and some seem to actually be enjoying this team's recent struggles.

It's mind blowing.  They want to be proven right about something more than wanting the team to do well.  The self importance never stops being shocking.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2022, 10:39:55 PM
St. John's is actually a good basketball team. DePaul is bad.

Posh and Champagnie are going to be problematic for this team because we've lost a step and aren't playing connected.

Guys are laboring up the court as if the season has worn them out. St. John's doesn't get tired.

DePaul just beat St Johns 5 days ago so it's not exactly as cut and dry as that.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 03, 2022, 06:26:56 AM
Yes, two games proves that.  Your basketball genius is unparalleled.  Surprised you don't coach.  Have you considered it?  You have all the answers

Disappointed at no major nickname announcement yet

Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 03, 2022, 06:26:56 AM
Yes, two games proves that.  Your basketball genius is unparalleled.  Surprised you don't coach.  Have you considered it?  You have all the answers

Two games of being outcoachef by McDermott is enough. No I don't have all the answers and admit it Mr. Smart ass.
You, on the other hand smugly believe you do, when in reality you are clueless. But keep professing your unsurpassed basketball acumen, because we will all become more enlightened by it. Thank you.

Quote from: willie warrior on March 03, 2022, 08:06:37 AM
Two games of being outcoachef by McDermott is enough. No I don't have all the answers and admit it Mr. Smart ass.
You, on the other hand smugly believe you do, when in reality you are clueless. But keep professing your unsurpassed basketball acumen, because we will all become more enlightened by it. Thank you.

I will and you're welcome

Quote from: willie warrior on March 03, 2022, 08:06:37 AM
Two games of being outcoachef by McDermott is enough. No I don't have all the answers and admit it Mr. Smart ass.
You, on the other hand smugly believe you do, when in reality you are clueless. But keep professing your unsurpassed basketball acumen, because we will all become more enlightened by it. Thank you.

Triggered