1. I fully expected MU to make a game of this. They have been down before and almost always at least made it close.
2. Butler clearly had a great scout for MU and executed it beautifully. Every coach looks like a genius when their team makes it rain from 3. And a whole bunch of their offensive rebounds were the product of getting just enough of a hand on the miss to tip it out to the perimeter.
3. Speaking of scout, time to make some adjustments. Conference opponents are taking away the pick and roll with Kolek. They are sending lots of players to the offensive boards. They are prepared for the press. Staying up on 3 pt shooters/helping less.
4. Participating in the game chat is unhealthy.
5. MU got back in to the game by playing defense, going to the offensive boards, attacking the paint.
6. Good to see Kolek hit some 3's.
7. Butler almost took the air out of the ball too soon. Enough clutch shooting down the stretch to overcome a poor coaching choice.
8. This team never quit.
9. Hey, point, I think you might owe Silver an apology. Guy has only been watching MU hoops since the 60's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
10. I am going back to my CONE. (cult of no expectations) Only thing to do is learn and get better
Outside of Butler shooting unconscious this game was lost in the early run.
We let it snowball. Rushing shots trying to make up 20 pts in 1 trip which is impossible.
I knew once we got to half that Shaka would be able to settle them down a bit to make a run by being efficient and getting to the paint. Was just too little too late.
Took the 15 minute break to sink in
Disappointing.
Probably will impact seeding.
Still not worried about about a late season collapse. Could also be a nice wake-up call.
I was expecting 4-2 down the stretch. Now need win out at home and win at DePaul or Creighton.
Maintain perspective.
11. I think Butler just hit another three from Greencastle.
Too big of a hole early. Butler made clutch shots down the stretch to match ours.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 12, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
Disappointing.
Probably will impact seeding.
Still not worried about about a late season collapse. Could also be a nice wake-up call.
I was expecting 4-2 down the stretch. Now need win out at home and win at DePaul or Creighton.
Maintain perspective.
Yup. Losing this just add the pressure.
But 4-2 was always my expectation.
bad loss. butler is garbage bad.. rest of games are crucial. need to win to avoid tanking seeding
Probably loses our single digit seed
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 12, 2022, 05:46:24 PM
Probably loses our single digit seed
So this loss drops us from a 4-6 seed to a 10? Interesting.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 12, 2022, 05:46:24 PM
Probably loses our single digit seed
You really have no idea how bracketology works.
You don't go from a 5/6 seed to a 10 seed on 1 road loss
MU is in a rut. Have not played well on D in a while. We need more than one starter to play well from the start. Too many games 3-4 starters do nothing in the first half. Maybe losing their ranked status will help regain focus.
Gotta learn to play as the favored. Team needs to stop reading headlines. Cling to the underdog mentality.
The absence of energy first half was dreadful. Nice line by Kur.
Purposefully scheduled a family outing during this game knowing marq would win. And they didnt?? This is not good. I smell the classic wojo end of season collapse again. Ugh.
A road loss isn't the end of the world..
Dropped 3 spots in kenpom
Gather and finish strong!
Marquette will learn from this game, lots of success in front of this team this year.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 12, 2022, 05:50:39 PM
The absence of energy first half was dreadful. Nice line by Kur.
Speaking of dreadful, that second half rebound off the missed FT keeps playing over and over in my head.
I know it's just one loss but this years version of butler is a top 10 bad reformed big east team. This is a really really bad loss.
Quote from: MUeng on February 12, 2022, 05:54:06 PM
Purposefully scheduled a family outing during this game knowing marq would win. And they didnt?? This is not good. I smell the classic wojo end of season collapse again. Ugh.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/KDsuE1W7OFAAXfRH08/giphy.gif)
Probably should have been titled "Pump the Brakes"
Talk of top 16 seed, Coach of Year, etc. That's three out of four, with a great Nova win squeezed in there. This loss stings more than the Creighton at home loss. That's two they should of had. Still have Creighton away and the usual DePaul debacle at their place.
Run the table and all that talk can come back, but Shaka has his work cut out for him. The rebounding issue is a major concern and Butler only had Nze and Golden as big bodies. It was destruction galore. Shaka needs to get a guy like Nunge next year in the portal to make up the defiances. God help them if Lewis leaves.
Need to run the table and get the momentum back, this teams really needs it.
Quote from: nyg on February 12, 2022, 05:57:36 PM
Probably should have been titled "Pump the Brakes"
Talk of top 16 seed, Coach of Year, etc. That's three out of four, with a great Nova win squeezed in there. This loss stings more than the Creighton at home loss. That's two they should of had. Still have Creighton away and the usual DePaul debacle at their place.
Run the table and all that talk can come back, but Shaka has his work cut out for him. The rebounding issue is a major concern and Butler only had Nze and Golden as big bodies. It was destruction galore. Shaka needs to get a guy like Nunge next year in the portal to make up the defiances. God help them if Lewis leaves.
Need to run the table and get the momentum back, this teams really needs it.
1) "God help them if Lewis leaves". ::)
2) Need to run the table. ::)
There are some real clowns coming out of the woodwork tonight.
They lost a game they weren't supposed to for the first time this year. It happens. If they go to the wire against Georgetown I'll be concerned. But they've done more than enough this year to earn the benefit of the doubt from our "fans."
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 12, 2022, 06:01:50 PM
There are some real clowns coming out of the woodwork tonight.
They lost a game they weren't supposed to for the first time this year. It happens. If they go to the wire against Georgetown I'll be concerned. But they've done more than enough this year to earn the benefit of the doubt from our "fans."
Reason and common sense have no place here. Stop it.
This isn't new. Every single loss is the end of the world.
I really didn't like Oso in the game at the end. They kept attacking him on the PNR, or by requiring him to help, and he just doesn't move that fast. I kinda think they should have gone small there and spread the floor on offense a little. I know Shaka is concerned with rebounds but...
On defense we are over helping and over rotating. Teams have picked that up and are making the extra pass. Which is why random dudes are going off.
Just threw in a tray of enchiladas. Green sauce. That will get me through the rest of the evening.
You simply can't come out as flat footed as this team has the last two games and expect a second half run to be enough. The first half performances against UConn and Butler are cause for concern. Why is the team so devoid of energy in the initial minutes of a game? Shaka said in his post game radio interview the guys practiced harder than they played at times today. I think that's a bit of a problem! You can't take any game for granted, especially away from home.
Re 9: I apologize that SilverWarrior's drivel was accurate once every 20 games.
It was a tough game. Hopefully we can rebound.
Quote from: NCMUFan on February 12, 2022, 06:19:42 PM
It was a tough game. Hopefully we can rebound.
😂, well it's obvious we can't rebound
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2022, 05:37:30 PM
1. I fully expected MU to make a game of this. They have been down before and almost always at least made it close.
2. Butler clearly had a great scout for MU and executed it beautifully. Every coach looks like a genius when their team makes it rain from 3. And a whole bunch of their offensive rebounds were the product of getting just enough of a hand on the miss to tip it out to the perimeter.
3. Speaking of scout, time to make some adjustments. Conference opponents are taking away the pick and roll with Kolek. They are sending lots of players to the offensive boards. They are prepared for the press. Staying up on 3 pt shooters/helping less.
4. Participating in the game chat is unhealthy.
5. MU got back in to the game by playing defense, going to the offensive boards, attacking the paint.
6. Good to see Kolek hit some 3's.
7. Butler almost took the air out of the ball too soon. Enough clutch shooting down the stretch to overcome a poor coaching choice.
8. This team never quit.
9. Hey, point, I think you might owe Silver an apology. Guy has only been watching MU hoops since the 60's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
10. I am going back to my CONE. (cult of no expectations) Only thing to do is learn and get better
Regarding your point 4, thank you Dr. Fauci.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 12, 2022, 06:22:43 PM
Regarding your point 4, thank you Dr. Fauci.
You and NolongerWarriors should grab a drink or maybe a burger.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 12, 2022, 06:22:43 PM
Regarding your point 4, thank you Dr. Fauci.
Where is the nickname?
Smart-alecks?
Quote from: NCMUFan on February 12, 2022, 06:19:42 PM
It was a tough game. Hopefully we can rebound.
Excellent
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2022, 06:27:00 PM
Smart-alecks?
Given his recent obsession over the male anatomy, I'm assuming it'll include the male anatomy
Quote from: Johnny B on February 12, 2022, 05:43:57 PM
bad loss. butler is garbage bad.. rest of games are crucial. need to win to avoid tanking seeding
Yes Butler honks, but there is no excuse for this loss. Absolutely none.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2022, 06:31:28 PM
Given his recent obsession over the male anatomy, I'm assuming it'll include the male anatomy
And naked teens playing sports.
This will likely put them in the 7 or 8 seed range.
Although that's still good it is a bad loss in the sense that it basically eliminates their chances of getting a 4 or 5 seed and playing a mid-major in the 1st round.
Their 1st round game is almost certainly gonna be against a power5 team.
There aren't many good wins available on their schedule the rest of the way so they can't really improve their resume.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 12, 2022, 06:08:34 PM
I really didn't like Oso in the game at the end. They kept attacking him on the PNR, or by requiring him to help, and he just doesn't move that fast. I kinda think they should have gone small there and spread the floor on offense a little. I know Shaka is concerned with rebounds but...
On defense we are over helping and over rotating. Teams have picked that up and are making the extra pass. Which is why random dudes are going off.
Just threw in a tray of enchiladas. Green sauce. That will get me through the rest of the evening.
Oso is soft on defense.
Options? Kur was worse, OMP had 4 fouls and wasn't very good, either. Lewis and 4 guards? Which 4? Probably Morsell, Stevie, Greg, and Kolek. More Joplin?
We can't win if we allow a team to shoot lights out, especially from 3 and not rebound when they do miss. Add to it a Hero ball offense during a stretch like that and its game over.
Great effort to battle back but it's a game against a team that we shouldn't lose to. Every team has a few of these types of bad games, hopefully this is the only one.
We need paint touches every time down the court. Our offense runs smoother when we get the ball in the paint and get the ball moving.
Need to figure out how to defend better as it hasn't been good the last few games. Sanogo was getting the ball too deep in the paint in the prior game and Butler was creating mismatches with Kolek and attacking him every time down the court in the second half. Need some better adjustments from Shaka.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 12, 2022, 06:35:42 PM
This will likely put them in the 7 or 8 seed range.
Although that's still good it is a bad loss in the sense that it basically eliminates their chances of getting a 4 or 5 seed and playing a mid-major in the 1st round.
Their 1st round game is almost certainly gonna be against a power5 team.
There aren't many good wins available on their schedule the rest of the way so they can't really improve their resume.
Really? No other opportunities for big wins?
Did they cancel the BET?
If I had to sum up this game in a gif...
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/eJiYNaPwdWcq0hO4Ve/giphy.gif)
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 12, 2022, 06:35:42 PM
This will likely put them in the 7 or 8 seed range.
Although that's still good it is a bad loss in the sense that it basically eliminates their chances of getting a 4 or 5 seed and playing a mid-major in the 1st round.
Their 1st round game is almost certainly gonna be against a power5 team.
There aren't many good wins available on their schedule the rest of the way so they can't really improve their resume.
Wrong on every point you made, well done.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2022, 06:31:28 PM
Given his recent obsession over the male anatomy, I'm assuming it'll include the male anatomy
Recent? Penis references have been a whiny willie trademark forever.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 12, 2022, 08:14:58 PM
Recent? Penis references have been a whiny willie trademark forever.
His love of phallic references is telling
The first 15 minutes was an absolute dumpster fire, especially defensively. It didn't help that Butler was pulling shots out of their asses pretty much the whole game. Credit to Marquette for fighting back in the second half, but this is still a bad loss to a not very good team. Hopefully the last couple of games will serve as a wake up call for the team to stop reading their press clippings and reignite their defensive presence.
Quote from: hairy worthen on February 12, 2022, 07:01:51 PM
Wrong on every point you made, well done.
There are 0 Quad1 wins left available at the moment. Basically means there are no needle moving wins left unless they get a matchup in New York.
It is important to stay in the Top 5 in the Conference to get a "first round bye" in New York.
The Home Games against Georgetown and Butler are must wins for metric purposes. Those would be seed killing losses. Still in a good spot but what I said was completely accurate.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 12, 2022, 08:37:27 PMStill in a good spot but what I said was completely accurate.
You said this loss drops them to a 7 or 8 seed. That's absolutely not accurate.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 12, 2022, 08:37:27 PM
There are 0 Quad1 wins left available at the moment. Basically means there are no needle moving wins left unless they get a matchup in New York.
It is important to stay in the Top 5 in the Conference to get a "first round bye" in New York.
The Home Games against Georgetown and Butler are must wins for metric purposes. Those would be seed killing losses. Still in a good spot but what I said was completely accurate.
Why are you disregarding the BET?
Road conference games are always tough. Loss isn't the end of the world.
But giving up 40+ first half points and falling way behind in back-to-back games is concerning. Need to come out Wednesday like our hair is on fire.
Marquette played like crap. Poor effort on defense and they were predictable on offense. It was a bad look all around. MU is way better and didn't show it. Koleck show MU out of it in the first half and got them close in the 2nd. MU got out worked by an inferior opponent.
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2022, 06:39:37 PM
Options? Kur was worse, OMP had 4 fouls and wasn't very good, either. Lewis and 4 guards? Which 4? Probably Morsell, Stevie, Greg, and Kolek. More Joplin?
Given his recent play, more Joplin would have been nice
Mind boggling this same can beat Villanova's twice and even Seton Hall twice but look like dog crap playing a crap team like Butler.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 12, 2022, 08:47:15 PM
Why are you disregarding the BET?
A few decades of MU getting knocked out early in conference tournaments will do that to you.
Beside, the conference tournaments don't affect NCAA seeding anywhere near as much as fans seem to think.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 12, 2022, 08:47:15 PM
Why are you disregarding the BET?
Not disregarding, you just have just chose not to read this part.
"Basically means there are no needle moving wins left unless they get a matchup in New York.
It is important to stay in the Top 5 in the Conference to get a "first round bye" in New York."
That was horrendous to watch, falling back into let's just bomb 3's and hope they go in mode (AND Morsell ain't a 3pt shooter.....drive it all day and play your bully-ball mid-range game!!)
Can someone tell me how Joplin only gets ONE minute of burn? Especially after hearing Shaka give him the stroke on Thursday nights MU Basketball Hour for the second or third time this season.
Hope they learned a BIG lesson, gotta play like the Hungry Hunter the rest of the way :'(
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 12, 2022, 08:45:13 PM
You said this loss drops them to a 7 or 8 seed. That's absolutely not accurate.
They were pegged as 6 seed on Lunardi's bracket before the loss.
7 or 8 seed isn't out of the question. Butler is a terrible basketball team. Not the end of the world, but still a damaging loss.
Quote from: muwarrior97 on February 12, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
That was horrendous to watch, falling back into let's just bomb 3's and hope they go in mode (AND Morsell ain't a 3pt shooter.....drive it all day and play your bully-ball mid-range game!!)
Can someone tell me how Joplin only gets ONE minute of burn? Especially after hearing Shaka give him the stroke on Thursday nights MU Basketball Hour for the second or third time this season.
Hope they learned a BIG lesson, gotta play like the Hungry Hunter the rest of the way :'(
Because Joplin is a negative defensively
Quote from: muwarrior97 on February 12, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
That was horrendous to watch, falling back into let's just bomb 3's and hope they go in mode (AND Morsell ain't a 3pt shooter.....drive it all day and play your bully-ball mid-range game!!)
Can someone tell me how Joplin only gets ONE minute of burn? Especially after hearing Shaka give him the stroke on Thursday nights MU Basketball Hour for the second or third time this season.
Hope they learned a BIG lesson, gotta play like the Hungry Hunter the rest of the way :'(
Well we can only play our schedule. There's no denying today was a s-show, and we need to get our act together, but as you stated perhaps this is a wake-up call.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 12, 2022, 10:13:40 PM
Because Joplin is a negative defensively
Given there weren't really many stops by our defense today anyways, would have been worth a shot for Jop.
When Tyler drive and create MU is really good. When he is a perimeter shooter MU is really beatable. Another February dive seems inevitable.
Here is where Shaka distinguishes himself from his predecessor. Not all on Shaka but he is not off the hook as his team got rolled by two beatable teams.
Quote from: muhoops1 on February 12, 2022, 10:31:30 PM
When Tyler drive and create MU is really good. When he is a perimeter shooter MU is really beatable. Another February dive seems inevitable.
Here is where Shaka distinguishes himself from his predecessor. Not all on Shaka but he is not off the hook as his team got rolled by two beatable teams.
Idiotic.
Even though we started 3-15 from distance the defense early was the biggest problem of the game. And in my view we made a tactical error by overthinking things, a.k a overpressuring. They hit some shots early for sure, and two late that were just disgusting, but we were off balanced and pretty Helter Skelter for the first 10 mins of the gane. Butler is a team that averages 62 points and we acted Ike we were guarding a combination of the Phoenix Suns and Golden State. All we had to do was be solid but we pretty much pissed all over ourselves. We have to be much more composed and play with far more intelligence.
Totally deserved to lose this game, but ...
The Harris kid who killed us with Rowsey-esque dagger 3s came into the game shooting 29.5%.
The Golden dude who torched us for 22 came in averaging 8.8 pts, with 0.6 makes from 3 per game.
So yes, we sucked most of the game, but Butler did a lot of un-Butlery things in this one. We're gonna kick their butts on NMD at Fiserv.
Oh, and I almost feel sorry for Georgetown, because a lot of frustrations are gonna be taken out Wednesday night.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 12, 2022, 10:10:21 PM
They were pegged as 6 seed on Lunardi's bracket before the loss.
7 or 8 seed isn't out of the question. Butler is a terrible basketball team. Not the end of the world, but still a damaging loss.
T-ranktology updates after every game. MU dropped one spot on the S-Curve from 22 to 23.
Quote from: MUDPT on February 12, 2022, 11:08:37 PM
T-ranktology updates after every game. MU dropped one spot on the S-Curve from 22 to 23.
Burn it all down.
Worst performance since St. Bonaventure. Probably second worst of the season. First bad loss in a month and a half. One data point among many. If it becomes a new trend, we could be in trouble. I'll go on record as saying that we will win two more laughers before the regular season is over and have one more headscratching loss.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 12, 2022, 11:20:20 PM
Worst performance since St. Bonaventure. Probably second worst of the season. First bad loss in a month and a half. One data point among many. If it becomes a new trend, we could be in trouble. I'll go on record as saying that we will win two more laughers before the regular season is over and have one more headscratching loss.
Laugher No. 1 is coming Wednesday for sure. Laugher No. 2 probably will be against Butler in two weeks on NMD when our guys play much better and their bricklayers aren't raining in 3s.
I think we'll win at Creighton and at DePaul. However, if we happen to lose one or both, would either be all that "headscratching"? If we're favored at all, it won't be by much. So that would leave a home loss to St. John's on senior day -- that would truly suck ... if it were to happen ... which it won't. (He said, projecting false bravado.)
Had to watch after the fact, as I planned my day poorly. But anyhow...
* Not disappointed in the effort, Lewis was a coach on the floor, even for the older guys
* When Butler was hitting everything midway in the 1st half, it reminded me of MU's offense when they are playing well.
* But MU should never give up 85 to this Butler team.
* Butler was amazingly consistent, 42 1st half points, 43 2nd half points - it wasn't just their crazy few minutes in the 1st half.
* Not concerned, unless this becomes a trend.
* Slightly concerned because I think fouls were called in this game similar to the tournament. Marquette plays aggressive defense, and those fouls were called early today - causing foul and lineup issues.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 12, 2022, 10:23:39 PM
Given there weren't really many stops by our defense today anyways, would have been worth a shot for Jop.
YES!!!! Try something different and he hasn't been awful defensively, his O could have made a difference
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 12, 2022, 10:23:39 PM
Given there weren't really many stops by our defense today anyways, would have been worth a shot for Jop.
Yes. A great way to improve a team defensively is to put a worse defender on the floor.
Quote from: muwarrior97 on February 13, 2022, 01:51:24 AM
YES!!!! Try something different and he hasn't been awful defensively, his O could have made a difference
Really? He's...fine. But offense wasn't their problem especially in the second half. Defense was. Putting in a worse defender when you are already scoring the ball isn't going to help.
Scoop always wants the guys on the bench to "try something different." That's usually not how this works.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2022, 08:15:58 PM
His love of phallic references is telling
Except you guys are posting about it. The love is in your posts.
Quote from: MUDPT on February 12, 2022, 11:08:37 PM
T-ranktology updates after every game. MU dropped one spot on the S-Curve from 22 to 23.
Update, after last night's game, they are still at 22.
It did effect BET seeding. Less likely a 3 seed and probably in the 4/5 matchup. Creighton game is huge for tiebreakers. Loss could bump us to 6 and having to play an extra game.
Bummer of a loss. But thankfully it shouldn't hurt too much. Could go 2-3 rest of way and still get in without Dayton. Hope to do much better than than that.
Biggest concerns I saw were:
The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top. The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups. Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well. Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this. Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
Lack of any penetration and interior passing. MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting. This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA. I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely. The assist numbers were terrible. Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
Once again the rebounding was a problem.
It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little. If its just an effort thing that can be fixed. But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 13, 2022, 07:08:56 AM
Biggest concerns I saw were:
The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top. The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups. Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well. Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this. Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
Lack of any penetration and interior passing. MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting. This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA. I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely. The assist numbers were terrible. Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
Once again the rebounding was a problem.
It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little. If its just an effort thing that can be fixed. But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.
Agree. It is nice to read your calm, rational and perceptive comments after reading the post game rants. Many of us predicted a 5-1 finish but I doubt that, had we been asked to identify the upset winner, many would have chosen Butler. I wrote that either DePaul or Creighton would be the one. MUwarrior69 wrote that he thought that this might be a trap game and, in classic Scoop style, was quickly ridiculed. He identified the killer. The butler did it.
The threads about finishing the season with a string of losses because of one mind -boggling loss are mind-boggling in their own right. Since this is an opinion board they have every right to spout off, but it would be nice if they explained how Wojo's season ending collapses are linked to their fears of this season collapsing. Scoop does not require rationality or accountability. Those threads are my exhibit A. I wonder if the Villanova board had a nuclear melt down after Creighton and Baylor blew them out.
The thread about other coaches having us figured out are, I think, perfectly legit but what is missing is that ALL the other BE coaches have ALL the other BE opponents figured out. Nothing new here.
We may lose one or even two more games but I think it will be only one. That would be hardly enough to make me even
slightly disappointed in what this team and Shaka have given us this year.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 13, 2022, 09:43:34 AM
Agree. It is nice to read your calm, rational and perceptive comments after reading the post game rants.
Thanks for the encouragement. To me it does no good to say "the sky is falling" unless you post some reason that it could be falling. While you say everyone in the BE has everyone else figured out, this is the first time I've seen our press broken with such ease and in a manor that immediately puts us at a disadvantage. The key to this team is their defense and that first 10 sec or so of disruption really sets the tone. Lets hope it was something WE didn't execute well and not simply a weakness that can easily be exploited.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 13, 2022, 07:03:57 AM
Bummer of a loss. But thankfully it shouldn't hurt too much. Could go 2-3 rest of way and still get in without Dayton. Hope to do much better than than that.
Good chance we'd be in Dayton with a 2-3 finish. Don't expect that to be an issue though.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 13, 2022, 10:20:36 AM
Thanks for the encouragement. To me it does no good to say "the sky is falling" unless you post some reason that it could be falling. While you say everyone in the BE has everyone else figured out, this is the first time I've seen our press broken with such ease and in a manor that immediately puts us at a disadvantage. The key to this team is their defense and that first 10 sec or so of disruption really sets the tone. Lets hope it was something WE didn't execute well and not simply a weakness that can easily be exploited.
True, but we have a coach whose expertise is defense. I'm confident that he will figure it out. As upset as many Marquette fans are about the game, I am also confident our players are far more upset with themselves and really embarrassed. They will do whatever it takes to get the ship righted. Under our previous coach, the team often did not respond. That's the difference between a real leader and a cheerleader screaming "play harder!".
There is a silver lining to this game. We get them back on our home court in two weeks. There's no way the guys will come out as spiritless at Fiserv as they did yesterday on the road. Adjustments will be made. I'm confident we will exact a measure of revenge on February 26th!
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 13, 2022, 07:08:56 AM
Biggest concerns I saw were:
The ease with which Butler beat the press by throwing over the top. The inbound often advanced it to at least half court and then of course there were the home run layups. Butler is not a particularly athletic team so if they can do this most any other team should be able to as well. Whoever is defending the deep pass has to be able to contest this. Otherwise other teams will shred this defense and without it MU's defensive pressure even in the half court seems to suffer.
Lack of any penetration and interior passing. MU is not a good enough shooting team to rely on outside shooting. This game looked a lot like the 1st half of ULCA. I realize Butler is good at defending PandR but it seemed we abandoned it completely. The assist numbers were terrible. Shaka need to come up with some other variations they can run to get easy looks inside.
Once again the rebounding was a problem.
It looked like MU played this game figuring they were through the worst of their schedule and now they can relax a little. If its just an effort thing that can be fixed. But if this game revealed some scheme problems we better fix those.
Excellent post, and I agree with most. Our pressure is looking less challenging for most opponents lately, and Butler especially did a great job with it.
I'm not quite sure about the "rest on our laurels" part of it. I didn't think our guys dogged it or were lackadaisical. Butler came out and did something they don't usually do -- they rained 3s, including a couple with guys right in their face -- and we couldn't hit the side of the barn that is Hinkle. And when that happens, and the crowd is going wild for the home team, the road team that isn't raining 3s always looks like it has less energy. And of course, we rebounded with our usual aptitude. I'm not saying we weren't a beat behind; I'm just saying that it's a little simplistic to blame lack of effort.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 13, 2022, 09:43:34 AM
MUwarrior69 wrote that he thought that this might be a trap game and, in classic Scoop style, was quickly ridiculed. He identified the killer. The butler did it.
A "trap" game, as just about anybody defines it, is a game against a lesser opponent that comes after and before games against ranked opponents or rivals. All I said is that I doubted our guys were going into yesterday's game thinking, "This one will be easy, it's that Georgetown game we gotta be ready for." If anything, Georgetown, coming between 2 road games (including one at Creighton, always a tough place), fits the definition of "trap game" much better.
During our 8-1 stretch, we had a few "trap" games, and we never fell into the trap. So only a Negative Nellie would think that would happen at Butler. Combine all that with the poster's generally negative attitude toward Shaka and this year's team, and it was pretty easy to dismiss it.
I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.
Quote from: Norm on February 13, 2022, 01:09:04 PM
I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.
It will be very important for Marquette to defend the home court. If we do that we will be fine.
This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul. Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.
Quote from: Norm on February 13, 2022, 01:09:04 PM
I picked a 3-3 finish down the stretch in the other thread with losses to Butler, Creighton and DePaul. Watching the end of the DePaul - Providence game last night, DePaul is going to give us fits, especially if their big men are on their game. We just don't match up well with Creighton either. I have not watch St. John's this year, but the have played us tough in the past. Its the Big East, so there's no easy game. Our D has been really bad the last two games. We have also gone long stretches with Morsell and Kolek not providing any offense either. We just need to get our bearings back or the play of the last two games could spill over down the stretch.
Agree some, especially that DePaul could be a very tough game. I have to say I'm impressed that you picked us to lose at Butler.
OTOH, we matched up fine with Creighton in December, just blew it at the end. If we play well, they'll have as much trouble matching up with us as we will with them.
And we're gonna see an "easy game" Wednesday. Will be surprised if we don't crush them.
Quote from: bradforster on February 13, 2022, 01:50:37 PM
This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul. Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.
I really hope your 4-1 (if not 5-0 of course) scenario works out. DePaul vs. Xavier and last night vs. Providence as well as St. Johns today showed what they are capable of doing. The easy stretch we envisioned is not going to be a cake walk. We can do it, but I think it will not easy after all. What really annoys me are the scoopers who are clearly poised to blame Shaka if we finish poorly. The one who buttressed his argument by referring to the Texas forum's trashing of Shaka should be embarrassed but I doubt he is capable of it.
Quote from: bradforster on February 13, 2022, 01:50:37 PM
This is pretty simple - hold serve at home in three games in which you should be decided favorites - and steal one on the road against either Creighton or DePaul. Anything less than 3 and 2 is a major disappointment, but the team should be good enough to post a 4 and 1 record over these next three weeks.
Sorry. Can't view a win at DePaul as a steal. Ot should be a given.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 13, 2022, 10:24:42 AM
Good chance we'd be in Dayton with a 2-3 finish. Don't expect that to be an issue though.
I don't think so. We have a collection of wins no team around the bubble can even sniff. But 2-3 isn't going to happen (I hope).
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 12, 2022, 08:45:13 PM
You said this loss drops them to a 7 or 8 seed. That's absolutely not accurate.
Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.
So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.
Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major. Oh well. Onto the next.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 15, 2022, 11:39:50 AM
Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.
So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.
Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major. Oh well. Onto the next.
1. Lunardi isn't good at his job.
2. MU is the second 6 seed on the bracketmatrix, average of 5.88. Closer to a 5 seed than a 7.
We could get a 7 or 8. We could also still get a 4 or 5. The loss didn't drop MU to a 7.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 15, 2022, 11:45:03 AM
1. Lunardi isn't good at his job.
2. MU is the second 6 seed on the bracketmatrix, average of 5.88. Closer to a 5 seed than a 7.
We could get a 7 or 8. We could also still get a 4 or 5. The loss didn't drop MU to a 7.
Bracket Matrix is full of people who are bad at their job.
Regardless. They were the 2nd 5 seed before the loss to Butler on the Matrix.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 15, 2022, 11:54:24 AM
Bracket Matrix is full of people who are bad at their job.
Regardless. They were the 2nd 5 seed before the loss to Butler on the Matrix.
Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.
The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.
The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?
Quote from: BM1090 on February 15, 2022, 11:58:48 AM
Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.
The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.
The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?
That's the biggest question. Finish 4-1 with a W or two in the BET and its going to be tough to keep this team out of the top 20 seeds. Limp to the finish, and we could easily find ourselves in the 8-10 range just simply based on the # of losses, even tho our resume as a whole will still be better than many teams above us.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 15, 2022, 11:39:50 AM
Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.
So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.
Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major. Oh well. Onto the next.
Looking forward to you citing the BPI impact next.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 15, 2022, 11:58:48 AM
Yes, there are plenty of bad projectors on bracketmatrix but the average is usually better than Lunardi. Plenty of good bracketologists on there as well.
The loss sucked. It definitely hurt our resume and we deservedly dropped, but I doubt we dropped as far as you think we did, and there's plenty of time to bounce back.
The bigger question is was that loss a blip or does the downward trend continue?
I think the issue is that there just aren't many good wins left.
Creighton is all. The other losses would be considered pretty bad losses.
Georgetown tomorrow is Q4, St. John's and Butler at home are both Q3.
Any of those 3 are losses and it's a big hit. I'm not saying the loss this weekend to Butler is a nail in a coffin, but it just hurt in terms of what is left.
Creighton and maybe at DePaul are the last shot to improve the resume.
5 seed ceiling
10 seed floor
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 15, 2022, 01:16:37 PM
I think the issue is that there just aren't many good wins left.
Creighton is all. The other losses would be considered pretty bad losses.
Georgetown tomorrow is Q4, St. John's and Butler at home are both Q3.
Any of those 3 are losses and it's a big hit. I'm not saying the loss this weekend to Butler is a nail in a coffin, but it just hurt in terms of what is left.
Creighton and maybe at DePaul are the last shot to improve the resume.
5 seed ceiling
10 seed floor
Marquette doesn't need many more good wins. They have plenty. Their issue is they have a lot of losses. So now they have to rack up the total wins.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 15, 2022, 11:39:50 AM
Officially a 7 on Lunardis bracket and many others.
So I actually was spot on. The Butler loss isn't the end of the world, but its damaging.
Likely the difference between playing a P6 school rather than a mid major. Oh well. Onto the next.
I was on the Delphi Bracketology podcast last night with Brian Tonsoni from Delphi. They have the highest average Paymon score of anyone that's been on Bracketmatrix for all five years. Brian said his most difficult decision with Marquette as of last night was whether or not they were a 5-seed or if they should move up to the 4 ahead of Michigan State.
Personally, I have Marquette as a 6 right now, but Delphi, Dave Ommen at Bracketville, Weber Bracketology, and One Man Committee all are top-10 bracketologists on average and have Marquette as a 5, so maybe they know better than I do.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 14, 2022, 09:05:14 AM
I don't think so. We have a collection of wins no team around the bubble can even sniff. But 2-3 isn't going to happen (I hope).
After digging deeper into the resumes today, I think you're correct that we're still in and avoiding Dayton (barely) if we have a 2-3 finish, assuming the wins are Butler and Georgetown at home. Or winning @ Creighton and one other one.
The STB and Butler losses are now looking like they will end up in Q2. KSU win is looking like it'll stay in Q1. With all three of those improving, 2-3 would leave us with only 1 blemish on our resume and plenty of good wins to offset it. Biggest concern would our overall record at 18-13, but I think that'd be enough this season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 16, 2022, 09:00:14 AM
I was on the Delphi Bracketology podcast last night with Brian Tonsoni from Delphi. They have the highest average Paymon score of anyone that's been on Bracketmatrix for all five years. Brian said his most difficult decision with Marquette as of last night was whether or not they were a 5-seed or if they should move up to the 4 ahead of Michigan State.
Personally, I have Marquette as a 6 right now, but Delphi, Dave Ommen at Bracketville, Weber Bracketology, and One Man Committee all are top-10 bracketologists on average and have Marquette as a 5, so maybe they know better than I do.
All of a sudden Sunday @ Creighton is a MONSTER game in the Big East. For resumes, for BET seeding, for a potential Top 25 rating. A lot of different possibilities riding on 1 game.
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