MUScoop

1.  The half court offense was pick and roll with occasional isolation.   And stagnant.
2.  Too many needless fouls.  A little concerned about who would be left at the end.   Also, shooting and making all of those free throws kept SIUE in the game when they weren't hitting 3s.
3.  Too many early shot clock 3s off of turnovers.  There were plenty of driving lanes available during those scramble situations.
4.   Morsell was very good.    Kolek had some really nice passes.
5.  I thought Stevie looked far better than Kam.  Particularly defensively.
6.  Osa is so much better.  Loved him generating all of those turnovers at the back of the press.
7.  I would zone the crap out of this team. Speaking of which, Smart Coach went zone with just over 4 minutes left for two possessions.  One turnover and then a timeout.
8.  So much of this is just part of the process.   Young guys have to learn to defend without fouling.  Learn to not settle for quick 3s after generating turnovers.
9.  I love pressure defense.  I love forcing turnovers.   I am scared to death about what will happen against good teams with good guards who don't turn the ball over. Like 25 point loss scared. 
10. Lewis looks quicker.  Got hot Justin time.
11.  Shaka is undefeated at MU.   So much room for improvement






This was almost called Pep Barone crazy thread.

All about how we're playing come February and March.

Morsell good offensively.  I thought he was not good defensively.

A lot of the sloppiness is understandable with so many new players, new staff, first game, etc.
But the rebounding fundamentals ... gross. Can anybody block out, please?

On the other hand, at least we're not Pitt. Or Virginia.  Or Nebraska.

Really liked Kolek and Stevie. Morsell and Lewis also solid. The rest...not good. Kuath poor, Oso needs to learn to box out, Kam needs to work on the shot

Very underwhelmed by the fundamentals of this team. A ton of needless jumping around defensively, which left players out of position and the rest of the defense scrambling. I actually thought the offense looked better than the defense, but I don't think the offense looked great either. Lewis needs to keep attacking the rim. The rebounding and transition defense were both very problematic.

A lot of work to be done.

Good to be 1-0 with Shaka. Lotta work, lotta potential.

Stevie good be really good. I see the potential with Kam and OMP.

Love Kolek.

2 things that must happen to make us remotely competitive

1. Stop taking pull up 3s off TOs. We can't shoot good. So don't do it.

2. Lewis, plant his ass in the paint. He should take the occasional catch and shoot 3, that's it. Let him work down low.

Looks like they can score more than 50 a game. 

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2021, 09:53:12 PM
1.  The half court offense was pick and roll with occasional isolation.   And stagnant.
2.  Too many needless fouls.  A little concerned about who would be left at the end.   Also, shooting and making all of those free throws kept SIUE in the game when they weren't hitting 3s.
3.  Too many early shot clock 3s off of turnovers.  There were plenty of driving lanes available during those scramble situations.
4.   Morsell was very good.    Kolek had some really nice passes.
5.  I thought Stevie looked far better than Kam.  Particularly defensively.
6.  Osa is so much better.  Loved him generating all of those turnovers at the back of the press.
7.  I would zone the crap out of this team. Speaking of which, Smart Coach went zone with just over 4 minutes left for two possessions.  One turnover and then a timeout.
8.  So much of this is just part of the process.   Young guys have to learn to defend without fouling.  Learn to not settle for quick 3s after generating turnovers.
9.  I love pressure defense.  I love forcing turnovers.   I am scared to death about what will happen against good teams with good guards who don't turn the ball over. Like 25 point loss scared. 
10. Lewis looks quicker.  Got hot Justin time.
11.  Shaka is undefeated at MU.   So much room for improvement






This was almost called Pep Barone crazy thread.

We were clearly overjacked tonight Tower but there are significant concerns.  Morrell, Kolek, and Lewis will be 30 min guys.  I also thought Mitchell had a very impressive debut.  Offensively I thought we played too fast in the half-court and over dribbled far too often.  The ball movement was suspect and we don't feed the high or low-post.  We're simply going to have to generate better looks and be far, far, more patient.

Defensively we really struggled this evening to put it mildly.  Over pressuring, poor thwarting of the dribble drive, weak help, and very little cohesion.  We were off balance and obviously the fouling was painful to watch.  My gut feeling, as much as I like our 5's, is that this team may have to play small for major stretches.  We have some talent and potential but there's a ton of work that needs to be done.

Quote from: PointWarrior on November 09, 2021, 10:07:37 PM
Looks like they can score more than 50 a game.

I admire your dedication to this, but it may still be a bit early to proclaim.

12. Playing on Bucks alternate court sounded a lot better than it looked.  Any time we play on a court with NBA three lines, our spacing gets thrown off IMO.  Already looking forward to our "home" court back.

Quote from: BLM on November 09, 2021, 10:01:33 PM
Very underwhelmed by the fundamentals of this team. A ton of needless jumping around defensively, which left players out of position and the rest of the defense scrambling. I actually thought the offense looked better than the defense, but I don't think the offense looked great either. Lewis needs to keep attacking the rim. The rebounding and transition defense were both very problematic.

A lot of work to be done.

Totally agree.

I'll add:

12. #12 had a rough time.

13. Kuath played really poorly. He's huge but has a lot of trouble getting position. Gave up rebounds on missed FTs to much smaller players at least twice. Hope this game is an outlier.

I thought I was watching a St. Johns game--frantic defense forcing turnovers, but speeding up the offense so much that it was sloppy, playground stuff. Kolek was great defensively, but in the 2nd half I thought he was once of the worst offenders at trying to play too fast on offense.

Thankfully, Justin Lewis is a calming force, though I don't need to see him take more than about one 3 per game.

Mitchell, Kolek, and hopefully Jones have a chance to be really, really good as they progress.

Sloppy and very raw, but energetic, which sounds a lot like every St. Johns team.

We won!

Tower, took some notes. Could never aspire to your level of greatness (and I look forward to your game posts longingly), but I did have some thoughts.

FOULS
FOULS
FOULS
At this rate they will kill us against even mediocre competition.
Agree with 3 & 9 vociferously.
Does FS2 not have replay capability? There were several plays that I thought warranted it, but they saved it for one occasion when one of our guys got pushed. Nothing, move on.
Don't know about the (supposedly tenacious) defense. Lots of easy hoops.
Oso seems to have some bad hands.
I had some worries about Stevie and his footing. One time in the 2nd half he seemed to be out of control, but in the first, he slipped a couple of times. Sneakers?
Justin 2 double dribbles? Can't recall having seen that.
Too many 3's get jacked up.
Good moments from Oso, Morsell, Kolek and Stevie.

All in all, a preview. Great to see all these guys but I don't think the season is going to play out as well as I ha hoped.

Must stay positive ... must stay positive ... must stay positive ... must stay positive.

OK. Phew!

Congrats to Coach Shaka on a win in his Marquette debut.

We're going to need more from Kur.  I think Osa has a high ceiling, but he's still about 20-25 lbs away.  He's just going to be physically overmatched by a lot of big in the Beast.  Thought Stevie was good.  Take the win, I fear that there won't be a ton of them this year.

I can take many of the mistakes early in the season but the defensive rebounding (i.e. blocking out) was absolutely pathetic.  No way should that team have had a offensive rebounding percentage of over 30%.

Hopefully Coach Smart will be spending some time on rebounding drills.

Quote from: Its DJOver on November 09, 2021, 10:23:54 PM
We're going to need more from Kur.  I think Osa has a high ceiling, but he's still about 20-25 lbs away.  He's just going to be physically overmatched by a lot of big in the Beast.  Thought Stevie was good.  Take the win, I fear that there won't be a ton of them this year.

Agreed.  Kuath has to be much better. Especially on the glass and his overall positioning helping at the rim.

None of tonight should surprise anyone.  Nearly this entire team was whipped clean (and they weren't good before that). This is being built from the bottom up. There are going to be long nights.  If you're expecting otherwise it's going to be painful.

They're learning. This system asks a lot of these guys, physically and mentally. If the opposition breaks the press, MU goes back into man in the frontcourt they have to make very quick reads and communicate at a high level to get organized.

Energy was great, but it needs to be harnessed. Got a little too exuberant and it led to easy ones and a bunch of fouls that made it hard to find a rhythm.

MU got a lot of good shots they missed. I can live with that. The adjustments I wanted to see at half I got. Lewis got out of the corner and got the ball in some better positions to do damage. They backed off the press a bit when fouls dictated, and threw a few zone looks at a lousy outside shooting team.

Have to say, whatever he did, Greg really let his team down. Having a steady vet presence and reliable shooter would really help.

I'm kinda approaching this season like an overly-supportive little league parent. All I want to see is effort and improvement as the year goes on. Build on successes.

Quote from: MUfan12 on November 09, 2021, 10:31:23 PM
They're learning. This system asks a lot of these guys, physically and mentally. If the opposition breaks the press, MU goes back into man in the frontcourt they have to make very quick reads and communicate at a high level to get organized.

Energy was great, but it needs to be harnessed. Got a little too exuberant and it led to easy ones and a bunch of fouls that made it hard to find a rhythm.

MU got a lot of good shots they missed. I can live with that. The adjustments I wanted to see at half I got. Lewis got out of the corner and got the ball in some better positions to do damage. They backed off the press a bit when fouls dictated, and threw a few zone looks at a lousy outside shooting team.

Have to say, whatever he did, Greg really let his team down. Having a steady vet presence and reliable shooter would really help.

I'm kinda approaching this season like an overly-supportive little league parent. All I want to see is effort and improvement as the year goes on. Build on successes.

I do think that when he comes back (if he can stay healthy) Greg will help the team a lot.  Kolek willget him the ball where he can do damage, and his length and experience will help on the defensive end (not to mention, 5 more fouls to give).

Quote from: MUfan12 on November 09, 2021, 10:31:23 PM

I'm kinda approaching this season like an overly-supportive little league parent. All I want to see is effort and improvement as the year goes on. Build on successes.

I approach every game like a little league parent. Scream at the refs and question the coaching, doesn't every one?

Quote from: MUfan12 on November 09, 2021, 10:31:23 PM
They're learning. This system asks a lot of these guys, physically and mentally. If the opposition breaks the press, MU goes back into man in the frontcourt they have to make very quick reads and communicate at a high level to get organized.

Energy was great, but it needs to be harnessed. Got a little too exuberant and it led to easy ones and a bunch of fouls that made it hard to find a rhythm.

MU got a lot of good shots they missed. I can live with that. The adjustments I wanted to see at half I got. Lewis got out of the corner and got the ball in some better positions to do damage. They backed off the press a bit when fouls dictated, and threw a few zone looks at a lousy outside shooting team.

Have to say, whatever he did, Greg really let his team down. Having a steady vet presence and reliable shooter would really help.

I'm kinda approaching this season like an overly-supportive little league parent. All I want to see is effort and improvement as the year goes on. Build on successes.

"Energy was great, but it needs to be harnessed".  Tremendous, tremendous, point.  This should be passed on to Shaka and the squad.

Quote from: pbiflyer on November 09, 2021, 10:37:52 PM
I approach every game like a little league parent. Scream at the refs and question the coaching, doesn't every one?

Ha! I have my thoughts on the refs, but it's the same story every year with college refs.

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 09, 2021, 10:05:04 PM
Good to be 1-0 with Shaka. Lotta work, lotta potential.

Stevie good be really good. I see the potential with Kam and OMP.

Love Kolek.

2 things that must happen to make us remotely competitive

1. Stop taking pull up 3s off TOs. We can't shoot good. So don't do it.

2. Lewis, plant his ass in the paint. He should take the occasional catch and shoot 3, that's it. Let him work down low.

Agree with all of this, PGs, except for O-Max. I was probably the most disappointed by him. Very sloppy on both ends. But, he's a young guy without much experience so I hope the game slows down for him.

Coaching matters. Talent matters. Experience matters.

We don't know what we have in coaching and talent yet. We know we got zip in experience. Gonna be a lot of ugly nights this season.

This is the baseline. The expectation for this season is that we build on it.

In the future when we question if the team has improved under Shaka, remember we gave up a 13-0 run to SIUE

Personal thought is I see a future with this team.  Don't  have all the pieces yet obviously but;

Back court looks like ceiling could be high with morsell setting the tone this year and a core of Mitchell Jones Kolek for a few years after;

Front court needs more depth but again I like the prospect of a muti-year core of lewis oso and Omax , again with Kur setting the tone there;

After that the team is raw clay it appears right now and things will be ragged at times no doubt.

A few more key players and Id venture a floor of a Seton Hall-esque run the next three years. Not sure why I say that other than they had a solid few year run when that class of freshman from 5-6 years ago stuck around.  Personally I think MU has recruited better than Hall the last decade so if that continues that floor could be higher.  Ceiling should always be sky's the limit and I'm all in that Shaka is one good bet to take us there .

Congrats to to the squad, sure that first game with new coach and 9 new players gets fast quick but go back to work and dream big.

MU Rah !

No comment on Greg's suit?

Morsell tried very hard on offense. He got the scoring, ultimately, but he wasn't impressive/solid/consistent. I think he really wants to be THE guy on the team. I wonder if that's in him.

Justin is just not an alpha. Not overpowering enough, and not demonstrative enough. Help him find a valuable number 2 role, and he will rock.

So who will be the alpha? Big question (that Morsell and JLew are trying to answer.)

I loved Stevie's effort, persistence and performance. Unlikely that it will always be like tonight, but he may have a great future.

• It wasn't pretty, but I'm sure we're feeling better than fans of Virginia, Pitt, Georgia Tech, or Nebraska.
  
• A lot of close wins in the Big East & top-25. At least we won, even if not as comfortably as desired.
  
• This team will be fun and frustrating to watch.
  
• Some early, ill-advised threes and unnecessary mid-range shots. Nevada has work to do.
  
• When Oso & Kolek are creating possessions the way they were, I'm excited. The defense needs to improve, but the activity & aggression is evident at every position.
  
• Loved Tyler's passing. Would've had a double-double if not for some stone hands.
  
• Kudos to Morsell for the career-high 21 & Lewis for his first double-double.
  
• So sloppy with fouls. SIUE was in the bonus at the under-16 timeout of the second half.
  
• It was great to be back in the Fiserv, great for Shaka to get his first win, and great to cheer for Marquette in person again.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 09, 2021, 10:47:12 PM
We don't know what we have in coaching

Only quibble, but after 12 years as a head coach shouldn't we know what we have in coaching at this time?

He certainly gets a few years to achieve this, but I expect good defense, with decent offense.

I'll tell you what I was most disappointed in.

New coach.  New identity.  First season back with fans after Covid...and we trot out the same damn introduction spiel still using Streets that injects as much energy into a pregame crowd as a funeral dirge.  I like that we've branded Kills and have the counter, but man I was so hopeful for something contemporary and bombastic during intros.  But we're using the same Crean crap 3 coaches and almost 20 years later.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 09, 2021, 11:06:26 PM
This team will be fun and frustrating to watch.

Yep.

I think what Shaka told The Athletic last month -- the quote I use in my tagline -- will be what this season is all about.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 09, 2021, 11:06:26 PM

• It wasn't pretty, but I'm sure we're feeling better than fans of Virginia, Pitt, Georgia Tech, or Nebraska.
  
• A lot of close wins in the Big East & top-25. At least we won, even if not as comfortably as desired.
  
• This team will be fun and frustrating to watch.
  
• Some early, ill-advised threes and unnecessary mid-range shots. Nevada has work to do.
  
• When Oso & Kolek are creating possessions the way they were, I'm excited. The defense needs to improve, but the activity & aggression is evident at every position.
  
• Loved Tyler's passing. Would've had a double-double if not for some stone hands.
  
• Kudos to Morsell for the career-high 21 & Lewis for his first double-double.
  
• So sloppy with fouls. SIUE was in the bonus at the under-16 timeout of the second half.
  
• It was great to be back in the Fiserv, great for Shaka to get his first win, and great to cheer for Marquette in person again.

Nice.  Three losses for the ACC.

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 09, 2021, 11:27:53 PM
Nice.  Three losses for the ACC.

Pac-12 tried to beat them out as Cal & Washington lost, but it looks like Colorado will escape after a three to force OT with 10 seconds left and Oregon State has rallied from a double digit second half deficit.

I love Justin Lewis. And he has a decent 3 point shot. But I think he's falling in love with it.

I think he's better suited for the 8-12 foot jump shot; the little half hook or "runner", and going to the hoop.

I want him to take the three occasionally. But he's not Markus Howard.

Quote from: Dickthedribbler on November 09, 2021, 11:34:45 PM
I love Justin Lewis. And he has a decent 3 point shot. But I think he's falling in love with it.

I think he's better suited for the 8-12 foot jump shot; the little half hook or "runner", and going to the hoop.

I want him to take the three occasionally. But he's not Markus Howard.

There is still a question whether he can be the Alpha but he looks really good to me physically.  He's also improved his ability to attack off the dribble.  More than taking fewer threes I think he has all the tools to be a very good 2-way player.  We need him to be engaged and focused defensively for 40 mins.  What I'm uncertain about is whether he should play more at the 5 and we should play 3 guards more?

Quote from: MU82 on November 09, 2021, 11:17:40 PM
I think what Shaka told The Athletic last month -- the quote I use in my tagline -- will be what this season is all about.

So he's already creating excuses, great!

Darryl 21 points,
Justin 17 Pts 11 Rebs,
Tyler 10 pts 9asts
Oso +\- +27
Kur +\-  -17

Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on November 10, 2021, 12:16:28 AM
Kur +\-  -17

That was the truly surprising part of this game.  I guess Oso should be more surprising, but I expected Kur to be in the positive column and he wasn't.

48% Efg for a sub-300 team - not the most resounding start to the Shaka D era. But a W is a W - didnt see the same but sounds like lots of energy - that should.hopefully keep us competitive even when we're outmatchrd talent wise

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 10, 2021, 12:19:47 AM
That was the truly surprising part of this game.  I guess Oso should be more surprising, but I expected Kur to be in the positive column and he wasn't.

Agree surprising Kur was Marquette's only player in the negative column
Additional Stats
Omax 8 pts 7 rebs
Stevie 14 pts +\-  +16

I really enjoyed the effort at least on the defensive end, rebounding and the fg%s they gave up not so much.  Disappointed that I no longer feel the 1-300 national championship odds is the easiest money Vegas ever offered.  It seemed to me that after their initial offensive motions, there were plenty of lanes to attack and they didn't.  Obviously it's a different coach and system but with this personnel I think the paint touches offense would smoke. 

On the plus side:
-This is basically a completely new team, theoretically they should improve with familiarity. 
-Intensity can't be faked and there was clear effort. 
-kolek has great vision, and Mitchell is going to be a baller.
-It seems like Marquette is heading back towards their identity when I went to school.  They were always the toughest team on the floor, and even if they were outmatched they never thought they were.  There's a lot of freshman and if they develop, fingers crossed, they can become the five amigos.  They got a ways to go though unfortunately.

If we see clear player development I think we should all be happy.

Very pleased to see the guys get a W.

Stevie Mitchell came through when we needed to pull away. Was impressed by that .

Things that surprised me last night.   
8 man rotation with a cameo from Joplin.    No EE.
Very little movement off the ball.   

Things that didn't.
Helter skelter playing style.
Young guys not knowing how to defend aggressively without fouling.
Lack of consistent 3 pt shooting.
No feeding the post.   

The team that doesn't get rattled by pressure and forces MU to play 1/2 court basketball with either a sagging man or a zone is going to do well against us. 

Respect the process. 

MU starts 2 seniors and 3 guys that logged minutes as freshmen.  I expected more out of those 5...Kuath and OMP couldn't  do much (OMP got 7 boards) but I thought he would give us something on offense. 

Tyler was much better distributing the ball than I expected.

Morsell got it done despite 2 BS calls.

Officials were as bad as MU's defense.

I didn't have huge expectations for MU...but they were 20pt favorites...anyone who says they know more than the sportsbooks should have faded MU.

Does it help anyone to know that kenpom preseason ranking has SIUE only 5 spots away from DePaul?   

Not sure if that's good or bad... but it's not like we played the typical 300+ ranking of most years.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401372002

Box score for your viewing pleasure. 

Quote from: UWW2MU on November 10, 2021, 06:39:40 AM
Does it help anyone to know that kenpom preseason ranking has SIUE only 5 spots away from DePaul?   

Not sure if that's good or bad... but it's not like we played the typical 300+ ranking of most years.

We just played the typical 311 team on Kenpom. You're looking at Southern Illinois.

Scratch that... I saw southern Illinois is the 145...  :-\

One thing I will add that I liked even considering opponent. Overall we took care of the ball pretty well for an inexperienced team.

Lewis with 6 TOs was brutal. Especially most of the TOs themselves.

But rest of the team had only 8. The 4 bench guys had 2 total in like 70 minutes combined.

Kolek forced things a bit in the second half. But most of the game took great care of the ball with it in his hands all the time.

Stevie is our only hope to significantly exceed expectations. #Pray

Quote from: Jay Bee on November 10, 2021, 08:18:15 AM
Stevie is our only hope to significantly exceed expectations. #Pray

I think I get what you are saying, but please elaborate.

6 Power 6 teams lost last night. We're not one of them.

Xavier and Ohio St barely edged out a win, plenty of other schools need OT. We're not one of them.

Not saying we should be comfortable but based on 3/4 of that game I'm happy we came out with a comfortable margin at the end and live to fight another day.

Also, shout out to the guy sitting behind me last night I'm sure was a scooper.  Didn't stop talking the first 10 min of the game, relentless negativity.  Highlights included

"Glad to see Wojo left us his offense."
"All these young players know how to do is jack up 3s, clearly the coaches arent good enough to prevent that"
"we can't run an offense, i know i'd install even a basic offense, pfft"
"Shaka supposedly runs a HAVOC defense, this is no defense at all.  Pathetic"

Then randomly started rambling with his buddy about the Bruce Pearl UWM years and how he was "embarrassed my alma mater was terrified to play UWM"..."but then again, UWM was a way better team and program at that time so it would have probably ruined MU's reputation".

He was a JOY!

This exactly is how I feel. There have been plenty of Crean/Buzz/Wojo clunkers against cupcakes.  This is literally game 1 of the Shaka era, with a brand new / young team. Yet our basketball experts expect a harlem globetrotter vs the generals type game.  Lots of mistakes that can be corrected, but high energy, lots of young talent was displayed. 

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2021, 08:29:24 AM
6 Power 6 teams lost last night. We're not one of them.

Xavier and Ohio St barely edged out a win, plenty of other schools need OT. We're not one of them.

Not saying we should be comfortable but based on 3/4 of that game I'm happy we came out with a comfortable margin at the end and live to fight another day.

I'm pulling for this team, hoping that the team outperforms on the season.

But, the "havoc" press that I saw last night was 50/50, half the time the full court press played havoc on our own team - leading to multiple people being out of position on the same possession.

I know these cupcakes are scheduled to work on defense and offense systems and understand the limitations of the players.  But if we play like that against better competition, we get boat raced by about 30.

Quote from: PointWarrior on November 10, 2021, 08:37:25 AM
This exactly is how I feel. There have been plenty of Crean/Buzz/Wojo clunkers against cupcakes.  This is literally game 1 of the Shaka era, with a brand new / young team. Yet our basketball experts expect a harlem globetrotter vs the generals type game.  Lots of mistakes that can be corrected, but high energy, lots of young talent was displayed.

I agree so much with this.   

Agree with plenty I've read here, but unless I skimmed over it, everyone's missing the worst part of the night-- the Fox score bug. That thing was massive and yet had no fouls, timeouts, not even bonus. And they very rarely added any stat graphics. (Is that a FS2 bottom of the barrel producer thing?) Awful.

Also the announcers screwed up enough basic events that I wondered if they were still doing a remote broadcast.

Quote from: drewm88 on November 10, 2021, 09:23:55 AM
Agree with plenty I've read here, but unless I skimmed over it, everyone's missing the worst part of the night-- the Fox score bug. That thing was massive and yet had no fouls, timeouts, not even bonus. And they very rarely added any stat graphics. (Is that a FS2 bottom of the barrel producer thing?) Awful.

Also the announcers screwed up enough basic events that I wondered if they were still doing a remote broadcast.

Yes. What the hell was that scoreline? That was something out of 1996. And then you compound it with the very worst announcing team that FS employs ... ugh.

Quote from: drewm88 on November 10, 2021, 09:23:55 AM
Agree with plenty I've read here, but unless I skimmed over it, everyone's missing the worst part of the night-- the Fox score bug. That thing was massive and yet had no fouls, timeouts, not even bonus. And they very rarely added any stat graphics. (Is that a FS2 bottom of the barrel producer thing?) Awful.

Also the announcers screwed up enough basic events that I wondered if they were still doing a remote broadcast.

When I switched to FS1, they had the fouls and TOs for the teams in those banners. Seems like it was being updated throughout the night.

Conspiracy idea. Shaka cut a deal to make Brian Barone look good in his homecoming.

Quote from: PointWarrior on November 10, 2021, 08:37:25 AM
This exactly is how I feel. There have been plenty of Crean/Buzz/Wojo clunkers against cupcakes.  This is literally game 1 of the Shaka era, with a brand new / young team. Yet our basketball experts expect a harlem globetrotter vs the generals type game.  Lots of mistakes that can be corrected, but high energy, lots of young talent was displayed.

It's true. Hoping to see a cleaner game against New Hampshire, but know it's a process too. Super young and that was evident. Onward and upward.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2021, 08:29:24 AM
6 Power 6 teams lost last night. We're not one of them.

Xavier and Ohio St barely edged out a win, plenty of other schools need OT. We're not one of them.

Not saying we should be comfortable but based on 3/4 of that game I'm happy we came out with a comfortable margin at the end and live to fight another day.

The difference, of course, was the quality of opponent. Ours was #311 going into the game. The only thing to learn from this game frankly will be after next game when we see how the team and coaches adjusted.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 10, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
The difference, of course, was the quality of opponent. Ours was #311 going into the game. The only thing to learn from this game frankly will be after next game when we see how the team and coaches adjusted.

Northern Illinois was lower and beat Washington.

I'm not gonna go through each buy opponent that won or kept it within 10 or went to OT and calculate the difference and compare it to our difference but the point is that it seems like a lot of majors came out a little rusty or overly excited.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Northern Illinois was lower and beat Washington.

I'm not gonna go through each buy opponent that won or kept it within 10 or went to OT and calculate the difference and compare it to our difference but the point is that it seems like a lot of majors came out a little rusty or overly excited.

Also wondering if this has to do with recent transfer rules?

A lot of these mid/low major cupcakes have their cores from the last 2-3 years.

Where the major schools are putting together new transfer in/freshmen.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a constant theme of high majors losing or just sneaking by from now on as they are putting together puzzle pieces and mid majors are playing with 7-9 of the players they've had the last two years but always lose just 1 or two of their core.

Quote from: drewm88 on November 10, 2021, 09:23:55 AM


Also the announcers screwed up enough basic events that I wondered if they were still doing a remote broadcast.

Yes.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Northern Illinois was lower and beat Washington.

I'm not gonna go through each buy opponent that won or kept it within 10 or went to OT and calculate the difference and compare it to our difference but the point is that it seems like a lot of majors came out a little rusty or overly excited.

Sorry, that's just explaining away what it was. A crappy game against the worst team on our schedule. It wasn't unsurprising frankly with the roster makeup. What will be surprising is if this isn't markedly cleaned up for UNH.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 10, 2021, 09:50:55 AM
Sorry, that's just explaining away what it was. A crappy game against the worst team on our schedule. It wasn't unsurprising frankly with the roster makeup. What will be surprising is if this isn't markedly cleaned up for UNH.

It's really not if you read my first post, it's more of a "at least we survived, let's clean it up, get better." Mentality. You responded saying I wasn't factoring in the rating. I responded with the one example I was willing to look up (my dad went to NIU so I passively root for them) and I reiterated that we're not alone and at least we survived let's clean it up.

There's no "explaining it away"

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 10, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
The difference, of course, was the quality of opponent. Ours was #311 going into the game. The only thing to learn from this game frankly will be after next game when we see how the team and coaches adjusted.

How many of those P6 teams that lost, have a new coach, a new system, only 3 players from the year before with 1 of the 3 being suspended and gave lots of minutes to inexperienced players?

We don't have a good team.  We are projected to finish between 9-11 in our conference this year.  There will be a lot of losses.  We will quite possibly have a losing record and not make any tournaments.  That we won yesterday was a huge success.  Enjoy the journey.

They have to hustle back on defense better
Kolek needs to hit a few jump shots to keep the Big East defenses honest.

Quote from: Big Papi on November 10, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
How many of those P6 teams that lost, have a new coach, a new system, only 3 players from the year before with 1 of the 3 being suspended and gave lots of minutes to inexperienced players?

We don't have a good team.  We are projected to finish between 9-11 in our conference this year.  There will be a lot of losses.  We will quite possibly have a losing record and not make any tournaments.  That we won yesterday was a huge success.  Enjoy the journey.

I'm with you in general but "huge" seems generous there.

Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on November 10, 2021, 09:49:10 AM
Yes.

Well it obviously showed. Hopefully that will be going away quickly.

Dickey Simpkins is so stupendously uninteresting.

Quote from: Big Papi on November 10, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
How many of those P6 teams that lost, have a new coach, a new system, only 3 players from the year before with 1 of the 3 being suspended and gave lots of minutes to inexperienced players?

We don't have a good team.  We are projected to finish between 9-11 in our conference this year.  There will be a lot of losses.  We will quite possibly have a losing record and not make any tournaments.  That we won yesterday was a huge success.  Enjoy the journey.

It was a huge success beating the #311 team in the country by far less than the 20 points MU was favored by?

Shaka will love coaching here with those expectations!

He was asked what he would do on an inbounds play late in the game and he gave some non answer like I would get it to a ball handler. He is pretty bad.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
It's really not if you read my first post, it's more of a "at least we survived, let's clean it up, get better." Mentality. You responded saying I wasn't factoring in the rating. I responded with the one example I was willing to look up (my dad went to NIU so I passively root for them) and I reiterated that we're not alone and at least we survived let's clean it up.

There's no "explaining it away"

I guess we agree. My point is, even bringing it up makes it sound like a 13th place ribbon. We had too much of that the past seven years.

Here is something I am watching on Shaka: Can his teams play in a slower paced game? We don't really have a half court offense or rebounders (despite some Scoopers saying preseason we upgraded on the front line). In his early exits, opposing teams knew to take the air out of the ball like SIUE tried to do in the 1st. Their 13-0 run put MU in a hole and it was a struggle all game. If havoc isn't working early, we need to be good in the half court (despite what Scoopers critique me on). I am not seeing it yet.

Frankly, the team's rebound against a slow paced UNH team will be telling. And, yes I know we won't be very good this season, but we need to play to our potential, not play down.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 10, 2021, 11:22:15 AM
I guess we agree. My point is, even bringing it up makes it sound like a 13th place ribbon. We had too much of that the past seven years.

If havoc isn't working early, we need to be good in the half court (despite what Scoopers critique me on). I am not seeing it yet.

SIUE had 15 turnovers in the first half.  Pressing was working to speed them up and get them out of their comfort zone.  We didn't do a good job of creating those turnovers into points.

Quote from: Big Papi on November 10, 2021, 11:49:21 AM
SIUE had 15 turnovers in the first half.  Pressing was working to speed them up and get them out of their comfort zone.  We didn't do a good job of creating those turnovers into points.

On a 64% efg% with just one trey made. Easy.

Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2021, 09:28:29 AM
Yes. What the hell was that scoreline? That was something out of 1996. And then you compound it with the very worst announcing team that FS employs ... ugh.

I thought it sounded like Dickie had taken some announcing lessons since last year. He wasn't great, but was 100% better than last year. I don't think we heard a "hashtag (fill in the blank)" a single time last night.

Quote from: Jockey on November 10, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
I thought it sounded like Dickie had taken some announcing lessons since last year. He wasn't great, but was 100% better than last year. I don't think we heard a "hashtag (fill in the blank)" a single time last night.

He threw the #Security out at least once

Quote from: Big Papi on November 10, 2021, 10:23:52 AM
How many of those P6 teams that lost, have a new coach, a new system, only 3 players from the year before with 1 of the 3 being suspended and gave lots of minutes to inexperienced players?

We don't have a good team.  We are projected to finish between 9-11 in our conference this year.  There will be a lot of losses.  We will quite possibly have a losing record and not make any tournaments.  That we won yesterday was a huge success.  Enjoy the journey.

I am confused by your statement.  So you are saying these other teams that did end up losing, didn't have a new coach and a bunch of new players and yet they still lost.  Our team has all the things going against them that you mentioned, playing in their first game of the year and yet they still won.  I see our team as having a much greater chance of improving throughout the year than many of the other teams that ended up losing, simply because of how young we are and dealing with a new coach, a new system and a lot of new players.  So your first paragraph seems to contradict the second paragraph.  Despite the obstacles, we still won and learned a lot and I saw so much to be optimistic about.  I was happy to see that Shaka was a bit more optimistic (although realistic) about the game in his press conference than the majority of posters on here.  You could tell he knows exactly the things they need to work on and what they need to build on, and unlike us, he sees them everyday at practice and knows that for some of them, it will take a few games to transfer their practice ability to game ability.  I think the turnaround from last night to Friday will be huge and you will see a much better game and even more reason to be optimistic for a solid season from a young, inexperienced team. 

Quote from: Big Papi on November 10, 2021, 11:49:21 AM
SIUE had 15 turnovers in the first half.  Pressing was working to speed them up and get them out of their comfort zone.  We didn't do a good job of creating those turnovers into points.

Not sure about this. About 44 percent of MU's first-half points came directly off turnovers.
The problem wasn't the lack of turnovers, though. The problem was the lack of defense when they didn't create a turnover.
And as Doc notes, it's hard to say that a team with a 64% eFG was forced out of their comfort zone.

Forgot to notice ... how were Shaka's cuddles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnFqTZXgLkw

Shaka's press conference. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0DlV8MJOxM

Quote from: Pakuni on November 10, 2021, 02:36:28 PM
Not sure about this. About 44 percent of MU's first-half points came directly off turnovers.
The problem wasn't the lack of turnovers, though. The problem was the lack of defense when they didn't create a turnover.
And as Doc notes, it's hard to say that a team with a 64% eFG was forced out of their comfort zone.

Agreed...but its hard to say a team with that many turnovers was comfortable...

Ben: "How does your length fit into his system?"

Oso answers (fly around, lotta length, etc.), Darryl gives a couple side-eyes and smirks, and does his best to keep from cracking up

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 10, 2021, 06:47:48 PM
Ben: "How does your length fit into his system?"

Oso answers (fly around, lotta length, etc.), Darryl gives a couple side-eyes and smirks, and does his best to keep from cracking up

thats kinda funny

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 10, 2021, 06:47:48 PM
Ben: "How does your length fit into his system?"

Oso answers (fly around, lotta length, etc.), Darryl gives a couple side-eyes and smirks, and does his best to keep from cracking up

Would the site be shut down if he had said ... you know what??

Lots of Negativity.. Didn't expect it.  For me....I thought they played OK..Pleasantly surprised

Quote from: loid walden on November 10, 2021, 07:16:33 PM
Lots of Negativity.. Didn't expect it.  For me....I thought they played OK..Pleasantly surprised

LOL

Quote from: tower912 on November 10, 2021, 06:16:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnFqTZXgLkw

Shaka's press conference. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0DlV8MJOxM

"We've got Notre Dame first" instead of New Hampshire

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on November 11, 2021, 11:38:36 AM
"We've got Notre Dame first" instead of New Hampshire

It was "We've got another game first"
https://youtu.be/BnFqTZXgLkw?t=266

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 11, 2021, 11:52:10 AM
It was "We've got another game first"
https://youtu.be/BnFqTZXgLkw?t=266

Love it.  Biggest game of the season.

Quote from: BLM on November 11, 2021, 01:07:08 PM
Love it.  Biggest game of the season.

I don't always agree with this take.  But at this point, New Hampshire is literally the biggest test of the season so far...

Look, I'd liked a 100-42 win as much as the next guy. Heck, I thought we should be scheduling tougher opponents.

But gang, it's one game. Just one.

I suppose many of you complainers thought Green Bay's season was over after the New Orleans game. Or that the Brewers could not sustain their success past June.'

If, it mid-December, the SIU-e game is our highlight reel, then OK, we have problems.

Until then, just one word:

R-E-L-A-X ! ! !

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 11, 2021, 01:24:40 PM
Look, I'd liked a 100-42 win as much as the next guy. Heck, I thought we should be scheduling tougher opponents.

But gang, it's one game. Just one.

I suppose many of you complainers thought Green Bay's season was over after the New Orleans game. Or that the Brewers could not sustain their success past June.'

If, it mid-December, the SIU-e game is our highlight reel, then OK, we have problems.

Until then, just one word:

R-E-L-A-X ! ! !

I'm honestly struggling to find a lot of complaining in this thread. There's more complaining about complaining than there is of the game.

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 11, 2021, 01:24:40 PM
Look, I'd liked a 100-42 win as much as the next guy. Heck, I thought we should be scheduling tougher opponents.

But gang, it's one game. Just one.

I suppose many of you complainers thought Green Bay's season was over after the New Orleans game. Or that the Brewers could not sustain their success past June.'

If, it mid-December, the SIU-e game is our highlight reel, then OK, we have problems.

Until then, just one word:

R-E-L-A-X ! ! !

Seriously? Before the SIUE game, you said this, now you're the voice of reason?

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 09, 2021, 02:34:55 PMIf we lose tonight, our season is over.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 02:27:41 PM
Seriously? Before the SIUE game, you said this, now you're the voice of reason?

Well he also posted this, perhaps he's stirring the pot again?

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 11, 2021, 11:57:00 AM
I was the kid most likely to stir the pot. With that privilege comes the reality that my intellect just might be over the heads of some. LOL

8-)

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 02:27:41 PM
Seriously? Before the SIUE game, you said this, now you're the voice of reason?

Brother Brew:

But we didn't lose.

Listening to Scoopers on this board, we played crappy, but at least we won.

We closed out when we had to. We did what we needed to do.

Again, if this game is the highlight reel of the non-conference season, then OK, we have problems. But I'll wait until we lose to some podunk university not worthy to carry our water before I push the panic button this soon.

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 11, 2021, 04:54:37 PM
Listening to Scoopers on this board, we played crappy, but at least we won.

That's a pretty fair assessment of the game.

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 11, 2021, 04:54:37 PM
Brother Brew:

But we didn't lose.

Listening to Scoopers on this board, we played crappy, but at least we won.

We closed out when we had to. We did what we needed to do.

Again, if this game is the highlight reel of the non-conference season, then OK, we have problems. But I'll wait until we lose to some podunk university not worthy to carry our water before I push the panic button this soon.

Well according to previous years policies on this board, we didn't beat the spread so we technically lost. That game took a dump on our seeding.

Quote from: Newsdreams on November 11, 2021, 07:15:40 PM
Well according to previous years policies on this board, we didn't beat the spread so we technically lost. That game took a dump on our seeding.

It's easy to dismiss, but as a league the Big East hurt themselves opening night. Teams like Xavier, Providence, Creighton, Butler, and Marquette winning by closer than expected margins hurts the league and our hopes of 5-6 bids. Not as bad as the ACC or Pax-12 taking losses, but it's still not good.

Last year the Selection Committee made it very clear that NET is the most important factor in selection when they took Syracuse over Louisville and Utah State over Colorado State. Weeks like this are not good for the league as a whole.

Quality wins are always the most important thing for a bid. The Big East hasn't had any chances at those yet. Tomorrow is a good opportunity.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
It's easy to dismiss, but as a league the Big East hurt themselves opening night. Teams like Xavier, Providence, Creighton, Butler, and Marquette winning by closer than expected margins hurts the league and our hopes of 5-6 bids. Not as bad as the ACC or Pax-12 taking losses, but it's still not good.

Last year the Selection Committee made it very clear that NET is the most important factor in selection when they took Syracuse over Louisville and Utah State over Colorado State. Weeks like this are not good for the league as a whole.

Syracuse beat Bryant last year by just 1 point in their first game of the season.

The narrowness of that victory neither kept them out of the tournament nor prevented the ACC from getting 7 bids.

Quote from: The Equalizer on November 11, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Syracuse beat Bryant last year by just 1 point in their first game of the season.

The narrowness of that victory neither kept them out of the tournament nor prevented the ACC from getting 7 bids.

Tell me you don't get how this works without telling me you don't get how this works...  ;D

Did close BE wins on opening night hurt NCAA chances more than a MU K-State scrimmage loss?

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
It's easy to dismiss, but as a league the Big East hurt themselves opening night. Teams like Xavier, Providence, Creighton, Butler, and Marquette winning by closer than expected margins hurts the league and our hopes of 5-6 bids. Not as bad as the ACC or Pax-12 taking losses, but it's still not good.

Last year the Selection Committee made it very clear that NET is the most important factor in selection when they took Syracuse over Louisville and Utah State over Colorado State. Weeks like this are not good for the league as a whole.

Quote from: PointWarrior on November 11, 2021, 10:01:35 PM
Did close BE wins on opening night hurt NCAA chances more than a MU K-State scrimmage loss?

I know this is tongue in cheek, but every game has an impact on the ratings of the rest of the league. The best example of this is last year's Pac-12. Everyone remembers how the Pac-12 had that great tourney run. UCLA, Oregon State, USC, they changed the narrative around the Pac-12.

But you know who didn't change that narrative? Arizona, California, Stanford, Arizona State, Utah, Washington State, or Washington. None of them played a single game after the Pac-12 tournament. However, look at their rank improvement in kenpom (the closest metric to NET) from the start to the end of the NCAA tournament despite not playing a game:

• Arizona 43 > 29, +14
  
• California 136 > 114, +22
  
• Stanford 83 > 57, +26
  
• Arizona State 113 > 86, +27
  
• Utah 72 > 44, +28
  
• Washington State 107 > 78, +29
  
• Washington 173 > 129, +44

Nothing better demonstrates how the performance of league members impacts the rest of the league. An average improvement of 27.1 spots despite not playing a single game.

The same thing happens in non-con. When a league collectively over or under achieves, it impacts where everyone stands at the end of the year. It turns bubble teams into locks or puts teams that don't deserve inclusion into the mix, and vice versa. That's that happened to the Big 10 last year when they dominated in non-con. It's why Penn State and Indiana were top-50 teams with losing records and why four Big 10 teams got NCAA bids despite .500 or worse league records.

If the Big East wants to be a 6-7 bid league, the entire league needs to deliver in November and December.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 10:34:56 PM
I know this is tongue in cheek, but every game has an impact on the ratings of the rest of the league. The best example of this is last year's Pac-12. Everyone remembers how the Pac-12 had that great tourney run. UCLA, Oregon State, USC, they changed the narrative around the Pac-12.

But you know who didn't change that narrative? Arizona, California, Stanford, Arizona State, Utah, Washington State, or Washington. None of them played a single game after the Pac-12 tournament. However, look at their rank improvement in kenpom (the closest metric to NET) from the start to the end of the NCAA tournament despite not playing a game:

• Arizona 43 > 29, +14
  
• California 136 > 114, +22
  
• Stanford 83 > 57, +26
  
• Arizona State 113 > 86, +27
  
• Utah 72 > 44, +28
  
• Washington State 107 > 78, +29
  
• Washington 173 > 129, +44

Nothing better demonstrates how the performance of league members impacts the rest of the league. An average improvement of 27.1 spots despite not playing a single game.

The same thing happens in non-con. When a league collectively over or under achieves, it impacts where everyone stands at the end of the year. It turns bubble teams into locks or puts teams that don't deserve inclusion into the mix, and vice versa. That's that happened to the Big 10 last year when they dominated in non-con. It's why Penn State and Indiana were top-50 teams with losing records and why four Big 10 teams got NCAA bids despite .500 or worse league records.

If the Big East wants to be a 6-7 bid league, the entire league needs to deliver in November and December.

I doubt it will. Marquette, Creighton, and Georgetown are too young. Butler and Xavier are injured and were some of the more overrated teams before the season. Seton Hall is solid, but the big games they have seem too big for them @ Michigan and home to Texas are likely defeats. They might get OSU, Liddel could be a clear top 5 college player this year. I dont trust St Johns at IU, or againist Kansas. I guess PC could beat Wisco and Texas Tech, but they might lost one of the URI or Vermont games. UConn really doesnt play as hard of a schedule as they could have, hopefully they get the Bonnies.


At least this league doesnt have a Washington. Mike hopkins could have and should have been gone after last year.

Thank you Brew for your vigilance. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 11, 2021, 09:34:37 PM
Tell me you don't get how this works without telling me you don't get how this works...

Oh, I understand exactly how it works. ;D 

Just having fun by pointing out that one of your examples of how important point-spread in buy games is happened to squeak by a buy game by a single point and still managed to make the tournament. 

And it didn't seem to hurt the ACC either, as they still got 7 teams in, the same as the number of teams they had in 2019.

Quote from: The Equalizer on November 12, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
Oh, I understand exactly how it works. ;D 

Just having fun by pointing out that one of your examples of how important point-spread in buy games is happened to squeak by a buy game by a single point and still managed to make the tournament. 

And it didn't seem to hurt the ACC either, as they still got 7 teams in, the same as the number of teams they had in 2019.

Of course it hurt them but they did other things to offset it. If they had won by more it would've improved their resume and maybe resulted in a better seed

Quote from: The Equalizer on November 12, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
Oh, I understand exactly how it works. ;D 

Just having fun by pointing out that one of your examples of how important point-spread in buy games is happened to squeak by a buy game by a single point and still managed to make the tournament. 

And it didn't seem to hurt the ACC either, as they still got 7 teams in, the same as the number of teams they had in 2019.

Saying you understand how this works while doubling down on not understanding how this works.

I'm specifically talking about bulk results, not one-off events. That's why the Pac-12 results from the tournament had such an outsized impact on their conference cohorts.

Also, your ACC example further shows you don't get it. 2019 ACC had 7 teams, but 3 were 1-seeds with an average of 3.7 for the third ranked league. 2021 ACC had 7 teams, but none better than a 4-seed and an average of 7.6. So rather than disproving my point, you're actually reinforcing it.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 12, 2021, 03:51:45 PM
Also, your ACC example further shows you don't get it. 2019 ACC had 7 teams, but 3 were 1-seeds with an average of 3.7 for the third ranked league. 2021 ACC had 7 teams, but none better than a 4-seed and an average of 7.6. So rather than disproving my point, you're actually reinforcing it.

And how did the results of a single non-conference game in early November result in this?

Nobody disputes that it's important for a conference to fare well with its nonconference slate. But the impact of a few games - and not even losses, but just closer than projected wins - among a schedule of some 120 games is negligible.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 12, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
And how did the results of a single non-conference game in early November result in this?

Nobody disputes that it's important for a conference to fare well with its nonconference slate. But the impact of a few games - and not even losses, but just closer than projected wins - among a schedule of some 120 games is negligible.

Why vote? There are millions of votes cast. The impact of my vote is negligible.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 12, 2021, 04:29:18 PM
Why vote? There are millions of votes cast. The impact of my vote is negligible.

I'm not sure that's the best analogy.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 12, 2021, 04:31:20 PM
I'm not sure that's the best analogy.

It is, every bit positive you can do moves you into better territory.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 12, 2021, 04:31:20 PM
I'm not sure that's the best analogy.

It's not. The score in a non conference game is hundreds times more impactful on a teams tournament resume than a single vote is on the outcome of a national election

Quote from: Pakuni on November 12, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
And how did the results of a single non-conference game in early November result in this?

If you would read the part of the quote you deleted, your question would be answered.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 12, 2021, 03:51:45 PMI'm specifically talking about bulk results, not one-off events. That's why the Pac-12 results from the tournament had such an outsized impact on their conference cohorts.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 13, 2021, 06:03:45 AM
If you would read the part of the quote you deleted, your question would be answered.

Great. We agree, one game isn't that significant.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2021, 08:17:53 AM
Great. We agree, one game isn't that significant.

I never made the claim that it was.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 13, 2021, 09:19:47 AM
I never made the claim that it was.

I was going on this statement. Perhaps I misunderstood.
"It's easy to dismiss, but as a league the Big East hurt themselves opening night."

Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2021, 09:24:57 AM
I was going on this statement. Perhaps I misunderstood.
"It's easy to dismiss, but as a league the Big East hurt themselves opening night."

"As a league" pretty clearly indicates not one result but a bulk set of multiple results. When Equalizer tried to make it about one result, I dismissed that notion out of hand.

I don't understand why the concept of a series of multiple results impacting the league as a whole is causing confusion and pushback to something I clearly never said.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 13, 2021, 10:00:29 AM
"As a league" pretty clearly indicates not one result but a bulk set of multiple results. When Equalizer tried to make it about one result, I dismissed that notion out of hand.

I don't understand why the concept of a series of multiple results impacting the league as a whole is causing confusion and pushback to something I clearly never said.

Right, then I didn't misunderstand. In response to your "Big East really hurt itself," I wrote that a handful of games (eight to be exact) among the 125-135 nonconference games that will be played cumulatively (before the 180+ league games) will not significantly impact anyone's rankings.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2021, 12:22:37 PM
Right, then I didn't misunderstand. In response to your "Big East really hurt itself," I wrote that a handful of games (eight to be exact) among the 125-135 nonconference games that will be played cumulatively (before the 180+ league games) will not significantly impact anyone's rankings.

18 games in March of last year moved Pac-12 teams that didn't play a single game in that time an average of +27.1 spots on kenpom. 8 games won't have that drastic a difference, but improving your league metrics, and thus increasing the bids & seeding you get, is really just about beating the spread more often than not.

The league was 3-5 that night with the only covers being against sub-300 teams that help you the least. Thus far the only teams with winning records against the spread are Seton Hall, St John's, and DePaul at 1-0 each. The average Big East team is down 1.3 spots on kenpom. It's not a disaster yet, but it's not good for the league. And if it continues, it will have negative impacts come March.

It's better than taking losses like the Pac-12 and ACC, but in the NET era, margin matters for everyone in the league.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 13, 2021, 12:22:37 PM
Right, then I didn't misunderstand. In response to your "Big East really hurt itself," I wrote that a handful of games (eight to be exact) among the 125-135 nonconference games that will be played cumulatively (before the 180+ league games) will not significantly impact anyone's rankings.

Brew didn't say Big East really hurt itself. He said Big East hurt themselves. You added the really.

The Big East hurt itself opening night. That is an undisputable fact. We can argue over how significant it was except everyone seems to agree that it was pretty minor.