MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jaygall31 on April 12, 2021, 09:43:51 PM
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With Dawson testing the draft waters, what are your initial thoughts?
Will he be back? Impress at workouts?
Does he go only if he hears he will be first round?
Next year would sure be fun with him!
Have a good week!
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He only goes, if he does not like college. He is not ready for the NBA.
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He only goes, if he does not like college. He is not ready for the NBA.
Well Said.
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With the current NBA rules there is really no reason to not declare if you have NBA dreams. It’s free consulting with NBA personal on what to improve in your game.
Dawson’s statement is very well crafted and leaves a big wide door to return. The telling sign is not hiring any agent even the ones that college have approved that still allow you to return.
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It’ll be interesting to see what happens. He has the measurables and shooting skills, but at 6’11 he still plays below the rim most of the time. Strength and interior toughness (on both sides of the ball) are his biggest weaknesses right now. Wishing him the best in any case and happy he isn’t in the portal. Minnesota fans are pretty annoying actually.
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I think ( and hope ) he comes back
He’s not close to ready - not listed on
ANY draft boards / projections I have seen
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I am not sure he will be ready in 2 years much less next year. Physically not strong enough, has no hops, did he have a dunk last year? Decent shooter, slow release, lot to work on! Defensively, not even close yet. If I was an NBA scout, I would tell him to work on his game and One more in college would be beneficial.
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Checks out with everything we've been told so far: declare for feedback and unless it's shockingly optimistic, return to MU. About as encouraging as we could have hoped given he didn't hire any agent, explicitly stated if they tell him to go back he will go back, and that he didn't simultaneously enter the transfer portal ala Mac McClung.
Just glad it's out in the open now as opposed to that strange radio silence while the rest of the team is practicing.
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I am not sure he will be ready in 2 years much less next year. Physically not strong enough, has no hops, did he have a dunk last year? Decent shooter, slow release, lot to work on! Defensively, not even close yet. If I was an NBA scout, I would tell him to work on his game and One more in college would be beneficial.
Agreed. Garcia has a lot to work on and at this point he has upside but not one, current NBA skill. I could see him being a better version of Chris Crawford in his 3rd/4th year.
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did he have a dunk last year?
Yes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Z7U0E91ic&t=22s
Though not many. He was a master of (smartly) using the backboard most of the year.
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He used the backboard because he is not a quick jumper off of 2 feet. A kid that is 6’ 11” should be able to dunk on the run. He had a few, I knew that. Highlight tape was pretty good as well. Now put the highlights of the Seton Hall game on, Manu ate his lunch. And Mamu is not a top 60 player and may not be drafted as well.
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Yes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Z7U0E91ic&t=22s
Though not many. He was a master of (smartly) using the backboard most of the year.
I mean...he got blocked the 6 other times he tried to dunk
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It’ll be interesting to see what happens. He has the measurables and shooting skills, but at 6’11 he still plays below the rim most of the time. Strength and interior toughness (on both sides of the ball) are his biggest weaknesses right now. Wishing him the best in any case and happy he isn’t in the portal. Minnesota fans are pretty annoying actually.
...and so can we all here.
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Dawson is simply not very athletic. He needs several more years of seasoning to polish his game. He has the height sand potential to play much better. Shaka will make him a better young man and player.
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He's too slow for the Association, hey?
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I am very excited about this news. I was very worried about a transfer away from MU. I think he has the tools to play in the NBA but I do not think he is ready right now and hopefully that is what he will hear from the NBA guys. My hope is that he is frankly told what he needs to improve on to be a 1st round draft pick and comes back to MU ready to work on his game and body. He would really be able to help MU as he moves along his journey to the NBA. It would be good for both at the same time.
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What aspects of his game say pro...pay me to play for your team?
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What aspects of his game say pro...pay me to play for your team?
He's got good size, a nice touch on his shot and isn't a bad rebounder.
I think he has some things to work on, especially strength-wise, to be a consistent contributor in the NBA, but people seem to make the same mistakes every year about this time.
1. Getting an evaluation without hiring an agent isn't that big of a deal
2. If he decides to enter the draft, it will be because of the feedback he received from experts that know a lot more than we do.
3. They aren't just looking at his college production. They are looking at his potential.
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Yes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Z7U0E91ic&t=22s
Though not many. He was a master of (smartly) using the backboard most of the year.
According to T-Rank, he was 2-3 on dunks
https://www.barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2021&p=Dawson%20Garcia&t=Marquette
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I mean...he got blocked the 6 other times he tried to dunk
He got blocked a number of times on other shots with his habit of hesitating a very small fraction of a second before launching, allowing a defender to time a block perfectly.
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Checks out with everything we've been told so far: declare for feedback and unless it's shockingly optimistic, return to MU. About as encouraging as we could have hoped given he didn't hire any agent, explicitly stated if they tell him to go back he will go back, and that he didn't simultaneously enter the transfer portal ala Mac McClung.
Just glad it's out in the open now as opposed to that strange radio silence while the rest of the team is practicing.
Agreed. Given Covid and such, does anyone know how they are they doing evaluation things this year?
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Well, I certainly would rather have him in the NBA than playing for the Gophers (or any other non-MU teams). Hopefully DG will be playing in Fiserv next year -- either as a pro or with Marquette.
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I'm surprised Carton didn't test the waters for feedback as well.
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He got blocked a number of times on other shots with his habit of hesitating a very small fraction of a second before launching, allowing a defender to time a block perfectly.
I guess that is what I was getting at, albeit less eloquently (thanks alcohol). There was a lot of hesitating around the hoop. The way Shaka talked about Dawson playing freely was spot on. A year of getting stronger and also playing in this new system would benefit him for sure.
Hope he gets great feedback and it helps focus his approach going into next season
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He's got good size, a nice touch on his shot and isn't a bad rebounder.
I think he has some things to work on, especially strength-wise, to be a consistent contributor in the NBA, but people seem to make the same mistakes every year about this time.
1. Getting an evaluation without hiring an agent isn't that big of a deal
2. If he decides to enter the draft, it will be because of the feedback he received from experts that know a lot more than we do.
3. They aren't just looking at his college production. They are looking at his potential.
hence he’s maybe a late 2nd rd pick, then assigned to the G-league for additional development?
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I'm surprised Carton didn't test the waters for feedback as well.
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Athletically NBA ready, basketball wise has to get to get better in all facets. With his history of mental illness, college right now is a better fit, better environment. Good choice to stay.
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Keep in mind, unless they're drafting in the top 5, NBA teams care very little about where a player is today. They want to project where he's going to be a couple of years down the road. And Dawson has some projectable tools with his size, shooting and handle. He does need to get way better on D, and he gets stuffed at the rim too often. The latter will improve as he fills out and gets stronger.
I don't think he's anywhere near NBA ready, and I believe he'll be told to go back to school for at least another year, but there's plenty there for pro scouts to like.
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Athletically NBA ready, basketball wise has to get to get better in all facets. With his history of mental illness, college right now is a better fit, better environment. Good choice to stay.
"testing the waters" is a free option on getting good feedback from potential employers. You can declare & get the feedback with 0 intention of actually entering the draft. I'm frankly surprised more don't take advantage of the option.
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He's got good size, a nice touch on his shot and isn't a bad rebounder.
I think he has some things to work on, especially strength-wise, to be a consistent contributor in the NBA, but people seem to make the same mistakes every year about this time.
1. Getting an evaluation without hiring an agent isn't that big of a deal
2. If he decides to enter the draft, it will be because of the feedback he received from experts that know a lot more than we do.
3. They aren't just looking at his college production. They are looking at his potential.
Agree with all of this. I'd add ...
4. Players sometimes leave even if NBA people don't tell them what they want to hear. They don't enjoy college, or they are being influenced by unknowledgeable friends/family, or they would be happy either learning in the G-League or Europe. So the fact that a player isn't "ready" can be pretty meaningless as far as the decision goes. I doubt NBA folks were telling Vander, "You're gonna be a star, kid!"
Selfishly, as one who enjoys watching Dawson play, who thinks he can improve significantly as a college player and who wants Marquette to kick butt, I'm hoping that Dawson is staying for at least another season.
I actually view this decision -- to get evaluated by NBA folks without also putting his name in the transfer portal -- as a very positive development for Marquette's 2021-22 team.
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"testing the waters" is a free option on getting good feedback from potential employers. You can declare & get the feedback with 0 intention of actually entering the draft. I'm frankly surprised more don't take advantage of the option.
Yeah, but it still involves time and effort on the players part, like going through a job interview process. I can see how it could be an unwanted distraction, especially if the player knows they want to return and the things they need to work on are obvious. I have no idea what the feedback process looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not very detailed because NBA execs don't want to waste their time on this either. For someone like DJ, it might be nothing more than this...
[/size]Strengths: athleticism
[/size]Weaknesses: shooting
[/size]Projection: undrafted
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Dawson is 100% making the right decision here.
He also is 100% not ready for the NBA.
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Keep in mind, unless they're drafting in the top 5, NBA teams care very little about where a player is today. They want to project where he's going to be a couple of years down the road. And Dawson has some projectable tools with his size, shooting and handle. He does need to get way better on D, and he gets stuffed at the rim too often. The latter will improve as he fills out and gets stronger.
I don't think he's anywhere near NBA ready, and I believe he'll be told to go back to school for at least another year, but there's plenty there for pro scouts to like.
This will never happen, but I'd be interested to see what would happen if the NBA were to adopt an NHL-like system where a team could draft and retain the rights to a player but allow him to stay in college (if my understanding of that rule is correct).
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This will never happen, but I'd be interested to see what would happen if the NBA were to adopt an NHL-like system where a team could draft and retain the rights to a player but allow him to stay in college (if my understanding of that rule is correct).
Isn't that what the Celtics did to bird?
Also if they're gonna adopt any NHL system I say bring power plays where a foul makes you play man down for 30sec
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This will never happen, but I'd be interested to see what would happen if the NBA were to adopt an NHL-like system where a team could draft and retain the rights to a player but allow him to stay in college (if my understanding of that rule is correct).
I actually think this is an extremely good idea and the NBA and NCAA used to allow this. Larry Bird was eligible and was drafted in 1978 by the Celtics. They owned his rights until the 1979 draft, at which point he could have re-entered. But the Celtics signed him prior to the 1979 draft.
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Are players able to "test the waters" more than once? My recollection was that a player could only do it one time, but I'm not sure if my recollection is incorrect or if this has changed?
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wouldnt be shocked if he's told to get a little bigger so he can play center in the pros. he's 6'11 and already pretty well built. he'd be a bigger mismatch in the nba as a skilled 5 rather than trying to play against all the athletic 4s in the league.
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This will never happen, but I'd be interested to see what would happen if the NBA were to adopt an NHL-like system where a team could draft and retain the rights to a player but allow him to stay in college (if my understanding of that rule is correct).
Yes, the NHL system is way better. Basically, the team that drafts a college player generally retains his rights for four years after he's drafted.
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Dawson got thrown around like a ragdoll at times down low against 19-22 year olds. But players think differently than they did even 10-15 years ago. It's not "Am I ready for the NBA"? It's "Would I rather get paid in some fashion to play basketball, whether it's G-League or overseas, and focus on it full time over school work?" What gets him better faster? We'll see.
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Isn't that what the Celtics did to bird?
Also if they're gonna adopt any NHL system I say bring power plays where a foul makes you play man down for 30sec
For every common foul? That would be chaos. Could be a lot of fun though.
Side bar - I'd love to see more just straight up bonkers rules in sports. Lower leagues looking for more fans could could be a testing ground. If you hit a pop fly but you can make it all the way to second base before it's caught? Safe. Holing out from a bunker should get you one stroke removed from your score. Soccer teams allowed one handball per game. Let's get nuts.
Also, my personal favorite:
https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/967485954461192193?s=20 (https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/967485954461192193?s=20)
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For every common foul? That would be chaos. Could be a lot of fun though.
Side bar - I'd love to see more just straight up bonkers rules in sports. Lower leagues looking for more fans could could be a testing ground. If you hit a pop fly but you can make it all the way to second base before it's caught? Safe. Holing out from a bunker should get you one stroke removed from your score. Soccer teams allowed one handball per game. Let's get nuts.
Also, my personal favorite:
https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/967485954461192193?s=20 (https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/967485954461192193?s=20)
Yeah, 30 sec, releasable on a score foul. Other brilliant idea would be hockey/lacrosse substitutions. You could literally have someone like Theo running back for D and take him off on the fly.
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Yeah, 30 sec, releasable on a score foul. Other brilliant idea would be hockey/lacrosse substitutions. You could literally have someone like Theo running back for D and take him off on the fly.
Basketball redefined by MUScoop. Lets make the ball out of superball material too!
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Sam Vecenie:
Marquette’s Dawson Garcia has some real offensive skill as a ballhandler and shooter, but he’s awful defensively right now. He needs to get stronger and prove himself there. These players should all go back to school and keep improving their games.
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Basketball redefined by MUScoop. Lets make the ball out of superball material too!
And if someone flops, it's perfectly legal to go right over them...stepping on them if necessary (stamping even). Even if it is not a "basketball play."
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And if someone flops, it's perfectly legal to go right over them...stepping on them if necessary (stamping even). Even if it is not a "basketball play."
Yours truly,
Christian Laettner
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Sam Vecenie:
Marquette’s Dawson Garcia has some real offensive skill as a ballhandler and shooter, but he’s awful defensively right now. He needs to get stronger and prove himself there. These players should all go back to school and keep improving their games.
Was this his podcast?
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hence he’s maybe a late 2nd rd pick, then assigned to the G-league for additional development?
I advocate a lot for players to go pro as soon as they can. However if you have the potential to be in the top 20ish in another year or so you should stay in college for the guaranteed contract.
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Sam Vecenie:
Marquette’s Dawson Garcia has some real offensive skill as a ballhandler and shooter, but he’s awful defensively right now. He needs to get stronger and prove himself there. These players should all go back to school and keep improving their games.
hopefully he isn't pushed to sign with an agent. Then Dawson would be up a creek.
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Was this his podcast?
3/1 Big Board
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3/1 Big Board
Thanks!
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I have fully expected him to be done after this year for a long time. He clearly has things to work on, but also has the tools be a contributor in the NBA. Whether he is ready right now is not the issue. Hope I'm wrong but plenty of players with far less upside than Dawson have left school early.
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Basketball redefined by MUScoop. Lets make the ball out of superball material too!
Let's try it in bowling first
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Yeah, 30 sec, releasable on a score foul. Other brilliant idea would be hockey/lacrosse substitutions. You could literally have someone like Theo running Davante strolling back for D and take him off on the fly.
Fixed
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Fixed
Shouldn't you change the D to an O then?
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Shouldn't you change the D to an O then?
I see I misunderstood your meaning. I read it as having Theo run off the court as he goes back on D...which of course makes no sense in retrospect. My bad.
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But players think differently than they did even 10-15 years ago.
Well, 15 years ago, the NBA and its players association agreed to a CBA that required athletes to play at least one year post-HS.
In the 5+ years before that, lots of players who were nowhere near ready for the NBA skipped college entirely to make a go of the pros. A few succeeded spectacularly; most did not.
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When does Dawson need to decide if he staying in the draft or coming back by? Isn't it like late April?
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When does Dawson need to decide if he staying in the draft or coming back by? Isn't it like late April?
I don't think the exact date is set yet...I thought I heard it's early July some time.
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I don't think the exact date is set yet...I thought I heard it's early July some time.
July 7, I believe.
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I don't think the exact date is set yet...I thought I heard it's early July some time.
Looks like the withdrawal date is July 19.
https://247sports.com/Article/NBA-Draft-dates-college-basketball-early-entry-withdrawal-date-Cade-Cunningham-Evan-Mobley-Jalen-Suggs-163307121/
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Yes, we could be on pins and needles over DG for quite some time.
Or he could get all the feedback he needs to make a decision well before 7/19. That would be nice.
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Looks like the withdrawal date is July 19.
https://247sports.com/Article/NBA-Draft-dates-college-basketball-early-entry-withdrawal-date-Cade-Cunningham-Evan-Mobley-Jalen-Suggs-163307121/
Wow so we could really be waiting awhile to hear about Dawson's scholarship
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Looks like the withdrawal date is July 19.
https://247sports.com/Article/NBA-Draft-dates-college-basketball-early-entry-withdrawal-date-Cade-Cunningham-Evan-Mobley-Jalen-Suggs-163307121/
That said, I thought it was 10 days from after combine for NCAA purposes thus how i got july 7
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Woof, July 7th eh? That's a long time to hold that spot open, especially with the transfer market this offseason and now only having 1 spot to play with. Almost gotta operate assuming he's gone and if he comes back, its gonna suck for someone at the end of the roster.
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That said, I thought it was 10 days from after combine for NCAA purposes thus how i got july 7
You might be right. Either way, it's an awfully long time.
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You might be right. Either way, it's an awfully long time.
Dawson isn't close to being NBA material right now. He doesn't have the athleticism to play great defense and nothing of his offensive skillset is NBA quality right now. If drafted, you'd be hoping he develops his offensive game in the G league. The only way he stays on any court is if his offensive game becomes elite there. Right now, he can't get his own shot. Dawson isn't even ranked in top 100 NBA draft prospects. He'll be back next season. If he makes a huge jump he's probably gone after that. If his development is more "paced" then probably a 50/50 shot he enters and is probably a 2nd rounder -rotational at best type player off the bench.
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Dawson isn't close to being NBA material right now. He doesn't have the athleticism to play great defense and nothing of his offensive skillset is NBA quality right now. If drafted, you'd be hoping he develops his offensive game in the G league. The only way he stays on any court is if his offensive game becomes elite there. Right now, he can't get his own shot. Dawson isn't even ranked in top 100 NBA draft prospects. He'll be back next season. If he makes a huge jump he's probably gone after that. If his development is more "paced" then probably a 50/50 shot he enters and is probably a 2nd rounder -rotational at best type player off the bench.
Feel like we were saying the same thing about Vander Blue years ago. Can't say he made the right choice, but he still chose to stay in the draft. You never know what's going on inside a 19 year old's head.
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Dawson isn't close to being NBA material right now. He doesn't have the athleticism to play great defense and nothing of his offensive skillset is NBA quality right now. If drafted, you'd be hoping he develops his offensive game in the G league. The only way he stays on any court is if his offensive game becomes elite there. Right now, he can't get his own shot. Dawson isn't even ranked in top 100 NBA draft prospects. He'll be back next season. If he makes a huge jump he's probably gone after that. If his development is more "paced" then probably a 50/50 shot he enters and is probably a 2nd rounder -rotational at best type player off the bench.
Totally agree. But we have seen quite a few examples of the NBA drafting based on potential, not fully refined skills. And Dawson has plenty of NBA potential.
I very much hope he returns, but I won't be shocked either way.
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Feel like we were saying the same thing about Vander Blue years ago. Can't say he made the right choice, but he still chose to stay in the draft. You never know what's going on inside a 19 year old's head.
Vander blue at least had a legit shot at being a second round pick. Not a great shot but a shot. Dawson doesn't have a shot.
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A year of playing faster would help Garcia.
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A year of playing faster would help Garcia.
Honestly, time to mature a bit will help him too. I expect him to take a big leap from Frosh to Soph year if he stays. Especially in a system that will put him less in the low post and allow him to create off the pick and roll (and lead to more spot up shots from the PNR).
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Honestly, time to mature a bit will help him too. I expect him to take a big leap from Frosh to Soph year if he stays. Especially in a system that will put him less in the low post and allow him to create off the pick and roll (and lead to more spot up shots from the PNR).
He didn't play all that much low post. He played a lot more high post in the 3-out/2-in sets, generally setting the initial high pick.
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He didn't play all that much low post. He played a lot more high post in the 3-out/2-in sets, generally setting the initial high pick.
Then my eye test failed. It always felt he was stuck there in games. Felt like a waste.
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He would get there during the ball movement and offensive rotations. A couple of ball reversals and picks and late in the clock he would get the ball on the block. He rarely started there.
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There is very little reason DG will not get the NBA feedback relatively quickly. He will make a decision well before the deadline.