Back in 1986, MU grew impatient with Majerus and he was gone after a few seasons. He subsequently went to Ball State and figured it out. Then had tremendous success at Utah (and eventually St. Louis).
MU was too impatient, they should gave stuck with Big Rick and given him time to figure to out. Instead, they went with Dukiet and it crushed the program.
I cannot help but thinking that MU might, repeat might, be making the same mistake. Wojo can recruit, that matters! Maybe we should have given him more time to figure it out.
That said, I'm always ok with canning a coach. But that is only half a decision. Who they replace him with will complete the story.
If MU goes with someone unproven, and everyone leaves, and it's 2014 all over again, I think this will be a mistake. They would have been better giving Wojo, a proven recruiter, those years to see if he can figure it out.
Instead, I hope they get someone that can keep the nucleus of what we have now, and get the potential of what we have now. No rebuild
1986 looms large and I hope history does not repeat.
Anybody with 2 eyes and a functioning brain could tell he couldn't coach.
Could he get better eventually somewhere else? Sure, I guess anything could happen. But his timer was up at MU, we couldn't afford to let him continue to feel out his coaching abilities 8 years into the job.
If he moves on, acknowledges his shortcomings, and gets better at a different program - so be it. But I won't have any FOMO about it. It was never gonna happen here.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 21, 2021, 10:01:27 PM
Anybody with 2 eyes and a functioning brain could tell he couldn't coach.
Could he get better eventually somewhere else? Sure, I guess anything could happen. But his timer was up at MU, we couldn't afford to let him continue to feel out his coaching abilities 8 years into the job.
If he moves on, acknowledges his shortcomings, and gets better at a different program - so be it. But I won't have any FOMO about it. It was never gonna happen here.
I was around in 1986 and that is EXACTLY what they said about Majerus.
If Wojo could be Majerus, you'd have to admit the Moser already is Majerus (Ball St or Utah version). He even learned from Majerus.
Quote from: Shooter Flatch on March 21, 2021, 10:03:48 PM
If Wojo could be Majerus, you'd have to admit the Moser already is Majerus (Ball St or Utah version). He even learned from Majerus.
agree ... that is why I said I'm out with canning a coach (they all eventually get fired or burn out). We need to see who replaces Wojo to decide if it was a good move.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:03:32 PM
I was around in 1986 and that is EXACTLY what they said about Majerus.
Ok great.
If Wojo moves on to his version of Ball State, acknowledges his shortcomings, actually improves as a coach, he may go the route of Majerus. But staying at MU it was never gonna happen. Continuing to shake the magic 8-ball was detrimental for both sides and his timer was expired. Like I said - if he eventually gets better, it'll be because he left.
Just because someone might become a great coach tomorrow doesn't mean it's a mistake to fire him today. Firing Wojo was the right decision today.
This is such an insult the the amazing basketball mind of Majerus. Terrible comparison
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 21, 2021, 10:09:09 PM
Ok great.
If Wojo moves on to his version of Ball State, acknowledges his shortcomings, actually improves as a coach, he may go the route of Majerus. But staying at MU it was never gonna happen. Continuing to shake the magic 8-ball was detrimental for both sides and his timer was expired. Like I said - if he eventually gets better, it'll be because he left.
It took Wojo's mentor, Coach K, 10 years before the light switch flipped on. (remember in the mid-1980s the NCAA was 32, then 48 teams. So those rounds of 32 were not wins)
1975–76 Army 11–14
1976–77 Army 20–8
1977–78 Army 19–9 NIT First Round
1978–79 Army 14–11
1979–80 Army 9–17
Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1980–present)
1980–81 Duke 17–13 6–8 T–5th NIT Quarterfinal
1981–82 Duke 10–17 4–10 T–6th
1982–83 Duke 11–17 3–11 7th
1983–84 Duke 24–10 7–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Round of 32
1984–85 Duke 23–8 8–6 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 32
Then ...
1985–86 Duke 37–3 12–2 1st NCAA Division I Runner-up
1986–87 Duke 24–9 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88 Duke 28–7 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Final Four
1988–89 Duke 28–8 9–5 T–2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
1989–90 Duke 29–9 9–5 2nd NCAA Division I Runner-up
1990–91 Duke 32–7 11–3 1st NCAA Division I Champion
1991–92 Duke 34–2 14–2 1st NCAA Division I Champion
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:14:12 PM
It took Wojo's mentor, Coach K, 10 years before the light switch flipped on. (remember in the mid-1980s the NCAA was 32, then 48 teams. So those rounds of 32 were not wins)
1975–76 Army 11–14
1976–77 Army 20–8
1977–78 Army 19–9 NIT First Round
1978–79 Army 14–11
1979–80 Army 9–17
Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1980–present)
1980–81 Duke 17–13 6–8 T–5th NIT Quarterfinal
1981–82 Duke 10–17 4–10 T–6th
1982–83 Duke 11–17 3–11 7th
1983–84 Duke 24–10 7–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Round of 32
1984–85 Duke 23–8 8–6 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 32
Then ...
1985–86 Duke 37–3 12–2 1st NCAA Division I Runner-up
1986–87 Duke 24–9 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88 Duke 28–7 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Final Four
1988–89 Duke 28–8 9–5 T–2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
1989–90 Duke 29–9 9–5 2nd NCAA Division I Runner-up
1990–91 Duke 32–7 11–3 1st NCAA Division I Champion
1991–92 Duke 34–2 14–2 1st NCAA Division I Champion
I can see you had this stat word salad copied and pasted in your notes app waiting for someone to take your bait. Congrats.
Long story short - you're not understanding the moral of the story. Wojo might end up being good one day, but he is not good today. Our program is not the type to give coaches a decade to reveal themselves. Frankly, we can't afford to be given how reliant our school is on basketball. If you'd like to cheer for a school like that I'd be happy to point you in the direction of any one of the 15 perennial basement dweller teams that hold onto a mediocre coach too long for every one Villanova / Jay Wright.
That might be the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard. Truly speechless on this one.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 21, 2021, 10:18:47 PM
I can see you had this stat word salad copied and pasted in your notes app waiting for someone to take your bait. Congrats.
Long story short - you're not understanding the moral of the story. Wojo might end up being good one day, but he is not good today. Our program is not the type to give coaches a decade to reveal themselves. Frankly, we can't afford to be given how reliant our school is on basketball. If you'd like to cheer for a school like that I'd be happy to point you in the direction of any one of the 15 perennial basement dweller teams that hold onto a mediocre coach too long for every one Villanova / Jay Wright.
It was from a thread on the same subject I started in January on the same subject
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61200.msg1295241
And I completely agree with you,
Our program is not the type to give coaches a decade to reveal themselvesSo, let cut to the chase, everyone that does not have 10 years of experience needs to be eliminated from this list.
1) Beilein
2) Moser
3) Shaka
4) Gates5) Smith6) Crean
Quote from: Goose on March 21, 2021, 10:21:03 PM
That might be the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard. Truly speechless on this one.
Now I know I'm on to somnething
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but he was never going to win here. Not if he refused to use the tools Marquette gave him and put together a staff that could help him and not just be yes men.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:03:32 PM
I was around in 1986 and that is EXACTLY what they said about Majerus.
I was around, too.
What they actually said was he got the job too soon. Not that he couldn't coach.
Comparing Wojo to Majerus is like comparing an apple and a lug nut.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:14:12 PM
It took Wojo's mentor, Coach K, 10 years before the light switch flipped on. (remember in the mid-1980s the NCAA was 32, then 48 teams. So those rounds of 32 were not wins)
1975–76 Army 11–14
1976–77 Army 20–8
1977–78 Army 19–9 NIT First Round
1978–79 Army 14–11
1979–80 Army 9–17
Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1980–present)
1980–81 Duke 17–13 6–8 T–5th NIT Quarterfinal
1981–82 Duke 10–17 4–10 T–6th
1982–83 Duke 11–17 3–11 7th
1983–84 Duke 24–10 7–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Round of 32
1984–85 Duke 23–8 8–6 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 32
Then ...
1985–86 Duke 37–3 12–2 1st NCAA Division I Runner-up
1986–87 Duke 24–9 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88 Duke 28–7 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Final Four
1988–89 Duke 28–8 9–5 T–2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
1989–90 Duke 29–9 9–5 2nd NCAA Division I Runner-up
1990–91 Duke 32–7 11–3 1st NCAA Division I Champion
1991–92 Duke 34–2 14–2 1st NCAA Division I Champion
Are you really including a military service academy?????
You are aware that the "recruiting" involved there is somewhat different, right?
Heisey,
I agree. You should run with this one and prove your basketball knowledge to the masses. This is going to be an overwhelming hit for you.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
It was from a thread on the same subject I started in January on the same subject
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61200.msg1295241
And I completely agree with you, Our program is not the type to give coaches a decade to reveal themselves
So, let cut to the chase, everyone that does not have 10 years of experience needs to be eliminated from this list.
1) Beilein
2) Moser
3) Shaka
4) Gates
5) Smith
6) Crean
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said all good coaches need at least a decade of experience to produce. I said our program doesn't allot a mediocre coach 10 years to reveal himself as good. There are many coaches with <10 years experience that are very good. Let's just say Buzz for instance.
You're trying hard, but it's not going great.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 21, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Are you really including a military service academy?????
You are aware that the "recruiting" involved there is somewhat different, right?
Are you also aware that in the 1970s and 1980s a popular destination for McD AAs was ... community colleges. Recruiting was far different back then.
The fact is the Duke faithful were inches away from sending K packing in the mid-1980s. They thought he was a terrible coach.
Heisey
What was recruiting like back then?
Quote from: Goose on March 21, 2021, 10:34:15 PM
Heisey
What was recruiting like back then?
You're the basket genius and I'm the mouth breather. Why don't you tell us what recruiting was like in the 1970s when there was no internet, only one game a week on national TV, and Street and Smith once a month.
Hes been fired. hasnt he had enough? jeez
I sincerely was following up on your post. As for my being a basket genius, far from it. Pretty knowledgeable on MU history and likely have outdated view of how the game should be played. I have noted several times this week that I do not follow the game as closely as I once did.
Wojo = Majerus?
LOL
We gave Wojo 7 years. He still doesn't know what he's doing. In year 5 as a HC, Majerus was 29-3 at Ball St. In year 6, he was30-4 at Utah.
There's as much resemblance between them as coaches as there is between them in appearance.
Wojo would be lucky to get hired by Testicle U.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 21, 2021, 10:59:44 PM
Wojo would be lucky to get hired by Testicle U.
Actual lol
Lenny
I really thought Heisey was onto something in this post. An opportunity to show his basketball chops and you throw cold water on it. You retired guys really can be a buzz kill.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2021, 10:59:35 PM
Wojo = Majerus?
LOL
Minus a thousand Wales on Wells burgers.....
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:14:12 PM
It took Wojo's mentor, Coach K, 10 years before the light switch flipped on. (remember in the mid-1980s the NCAA was 32, then 48 teams. So those rounds of 32 were not wins)
1975–76 Army 11–14
1976–77 Army 20–8
1977–78 Army 19–9 NIT First Round
1978–79 Army 14–11
1979–80 Army 9–17
Duke Blue Devils (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1980–present)
1980–81 Duke 17–13 6–8 T–5th NIT Quarterfinal
1981–82 Duke 10–17 4–10 T–6th
1982–83 Duke 11–17 3–11 7th
1983–84 Duke 24–10 7–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Round of 32
1984–85 Duke 23–8 8–6 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 32
Then ...
1985–86 Duke 37–3 12–2 1st NCAA Division I Runner-up
1986–87 Duke 24–9 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
1987–88 Duke 28–7 9–5 3rd NCAA Division I Final Four
1988–89 Duke 28–8 9–5 T–2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
1989–90 Duke 29–9 9–5 2nd NCAA Division I Runner-up
1990–91 Duke 32–7 11–3 1st NCAA Division I Champion
1991–92 Duke 34–2 14–2 1st NCAA Division I Champion
Some of your Duke pre-86 stuff not accurate. Tourney went to 64 teams in 85, so Duke for sure won a game there. 84 was 48, so without looking not sure if Duke got a bye to round of 32 and lost opener, or won a PIG before that.
Keeping Steve three more years to prove your ten-year theory would give us one of two outcomes. Either he magically figures out how to coach and becomes consistently successful, or he doesn't figure it out and we have Dukiet 2.0 on our hands (minus the piano playing) and will have lost three more years.
Y'all remember that story from a few years back about how Majerus was giving a speech to his team in practice, had to take a number two, demanded a student manager bring him a towel, and right in front of the team, he pulled his pants down, crapped in the towel, handed it to the student manager, and went right back to giving his speech like nothing happened?
Well, I heard a similar thing happened at Duke, only instead of a towel, Coach K just used Wojo's forehead.
That is the closest Wojo will ever get to being Rick Majerus.
Aren't we missing a stint after MU where Majerus was an NBA assistant for Don Nelson, giving him exposure to different systems before returning to college and seeing success?
Well done, Smuggles.
If the next coach struggles a la Dukiet, you can say, "See, I was right!"
If the next coach fixes Wojo's mess a la KO, you can say, "See, I was right!"
Bravo.
I predict that if Marquette's next coach does a great job, that will be wonderful. If he doesn't, it will suck.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2021, 06:50:00 AM
Well done, Smuggles.
If the next coach struggles a la Dukiet, you can say, "See, I was right!"
If the next coach fixes Wojo's mess a la KO, you can say, "See, I was right!"
Bravo.
I predict that if Marquette's next coach does a great job, that will be wonderful. If he doesn't, it will suck.
I predict that whoever Marquette brings in, whether it's Moser or Shaka or Beilein or Gates, by year 2 of their tenure, we'll realize just how bad we had it with Wojo.
If Wojo becomes another Majerus, kudos to him. It wasn't happening here.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 06:52:18 AM
I predict that whoever Marquette brings in, whether it's Moser or Shaka or Beilein or Gates, by year 2 of their tenure, we'll realize just how bad we had it with Wojo.
Through 2 years of Wojo's tenure, we had a 20-win season with a burger boy and followed with a great recruiting class that included Markus and Sam. I tip my hat to you if you already realized at the end of the 2015-16 that Wojo had no chance to succeed at Marquette, but I would like to see evidence of this basketball acumen of yours.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 21, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
It was from a thread on the same subject I started in January on the same subject
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61200.msg1295241
And I completely agree with you, Our program is not the type to give coaches a decade to reveal themselves
So, let cut to the chase, everyone that does not have 10 years of experience needs to be eliminated from this list.
1) Beilein
2) Moser
3) Shaka
4) Gates
5) Smith
6) Crean
Craig Smith has 11 years of head coaching experience. 7 years at the D-1 level, 1 year D-2, 4 years NAIA D-2.
He's won his conference COY 4 times, including once each in the Summit and Mountain West. He won 2 of them in NAIA D-2, and also won the national NAIA D-2 COY in 2007.
Smith is definitely qualified.
Woj kant cary Rick's Bike. Da dude duzant have it and neva will, hey?
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 06:52:18 AM
I predict that whoever Marquette brings in, whether it's Moser or Shaka or Beilein or Gates, by year 2 of their tenure, we'll realize just how bad we had it with Wojo.
100 percent.
Wojo to Ball State...that's where he belongs.
Majerus was not beloved at MU when he was the head coach. He left for the Bucks. His timing for leaving put MU in a corner. Spent a season learning from Don Nelson. A year later he left for Ball St and became Rick Majerus, the basketball savant.
And while he clearly had an epic basketball mind, that was not evident when he coached MU.
I wasn't around during Rick's time, but the consensus I get is that he wasn't ready for the job. He left, got some time in the NBA, then worked his way up the ranks, growing and getting better as a coach as he went.
I think Wojo is like Rick in that he wasn't ready for this job and wasn't going to find the success here that he desired. He needs more education and experience and would likely be well-served to follow a path like Rick's.
If so, maybe in 10-15 years, he will be similar to Majerus. But like Rick, he wasn't going to get there without leaving Marquette.
Like Rick, the best thing Wojo could do is go work in a system that is not Duke. Open his mind.
Quote from: Goose on March 21, 2021, 10:34:15 PM
Heisey
What was recruiting like back then?
When you have an "AL".....Recruiting took care of itself......Once Al left recruiting dropped off significantly.....
Majerus was a basketball genius.....Wojo is hardly that.....But Majerus only came into his own after he mentored under Don Nelson of the Bucks after being let go by Marquette.....
Never improved as a coach in seven years. The epiphany wasn't going to happen here.
Rick Majerus needed space from MU to develop who he was as a coach, he was never going to get that here either.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 21, 2021, 10:59:44 PM
Wojo would be lucky to get hired by Testicle U.
It would taka a lot of balls on good ole TU's part to hire him.....
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2021, 07:12:45 AM
Through 2 years of Wojo's tenure, we had a 20-win season with a burger boy and followed with a great recruiting class that included Markus and Sam. I tip my hat to you if you already realized at the end of the 2015-16 that Wojo had no chance to succeed at Marquette, but I would like to see evidence of this basketball acumen of yours.
Scheduling is part of basketball and it was successful that year if the goal was to get to 20. Stetson in the middle of conference, grambling and three wins against 1-17 St John's. 8-10 overall in conference.
Watching that team was painful if one liked team basketball.
Herman
I am with you on that hire.
Quote from: Badgerhater on March 22, 2021, 09:40:56 AM
Scheduling is part of basketball and it was successful that year if the goal was to get to 20. Stetson in the middle of conference, grambling and three wins against 1-17 St John's. 8-10 overall in conference.
Watching that team was painful if one liked team basketball.
I didn't say it was a great season. It was Year 2 under a first-time coach. We won in Madison, we beat Ben Simmons as part of winning that Brooklyn event, we beat Cooley's best team twice, we also had some terrible losses, we knew we had some good recruits coming in. It was progress over Year 1. And Year 3 was generally seen as progress over Year 2.
But if you want to think Year 2 was an unmitigated disaster, and Year 3 was an embarrassment, go right ahead. Of course, it feeds right into the argument that if our next coach has the same progression as Jay Wright did at Nova, some here will want to run him out of town.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2021, 10:04:39 AM
I didn't say it was a great season. It was Year 2 under a first-time coach. We won in Madison, we beat Ben Simmons as part of winning that Brooklyn event, we beat Cooley's best team twice, we also had some terrible losses, we knew we had some good recruits coming in. It was progress over Year 1. And Year 3 was generally seen as progress over Year 2.
But if you want to think Year 2 was an unmitigated disaster, and Year 3 was an embarrassment, go right ahead. Of course, it feeds right into the argument that if our next coach has the same progression as Jay Wright did at Nova, some here will want to run him out of town.
I think it's fair to say years 2 and 4 were disappointing for Marquette fans, and maybe not the greatest coaching jobs. I also think it's fair to say they weren't disasters like Wojo's first year or this year were. A couple slight changes and were in the tournament both those years .
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 22, 2021, 10:11:27 AM
I think it's fair to say years 2 and 4 were disappointing for Marquette fans, and maybe not the greatest coaching jobs. I also think it's fair to say they weren't disasters like Wojo's first year or this year were. A couple slight changes and were in the tournament both those years .
Everything is easy to say now, looking back, knowing what we know today.
I'm not about to peruse Scoop from back in 2015-16. I can only say what I remember thinking, and what I remember from others. Wojo had never been a head coach at any level. He was learning on the fly. I looked at Year 2 as pretty normal progress. And I certainly looked at Year 3 as very good progress. I think most Scoopers did, too. I don't recall too many saying in the middle of Year 3: "He can't coach. Time to move on."
In another thread, somebody put up Wright's record and one Scooper said he'd be VERY happy if our next coach did at Marquette what Wright did. Well, 3 years in, Wright's record was arguably worse than Wojo's after 3 years. Zero NCAA appearances in 3 years, and an 18-17 record in Year 3. Knowing Scoop, there would be dozens, maybe hundreds, calling for his head right then and there. That's all I'm saying.
In Wojo's third season, we beat the No. 1 team, beat Creighton twice, had several other nice wins, avoided disastrous losses, finished the regular season with 4 wins in 5 games to secure an NCAA bid, and had a couple of freshmen who looked like they'd be standouts.
If looking at that as progress -- in real time, not with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight -- is "slurping," then I plead guilty. Slurp, slurp.
I think Wojo has a long ways to go to get to Majerus. For every Majerus, there's probably 10 Dukiet's.
I think Wojo's best option would be to go learn from a non-Duke coach for a year or two and get a different perspective on the game of basketball. That's similar to Majerus then.
UW expressed interest in Rick. There were people who felt that Rick couldn't be allowed to leave. I am not saying Hank Raymond's was pushed out the door but he was nudged a bit. It was quickly clear that Rick just wasn't fully ready to be a big time coach~yet. Ball State allowed him to mature & become ready.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2021, 10:04:39 AM
I didn't say it was a great season. It was Year 2 under a first-time coach. We won in Madison, we beat Ben Simmons as part of winning that Brooklyn event, we beat Cooley's best team twice, we also had some terrible losses, we knew we had some good recruits coming in. It was progress over Year 1. And Year 3 was generally seen as progress over Year 2.
But if you want to think Year 2 was an unmitigated disaster, and Year 3 was an embarrassment, go right ahead. Of course, it feeds right into the argument that if our next coach has the same progression as Jay Wright did at Nova, some here will want to run him out of town.
For me, the biggest red flag of year 2 was Wojo's handling of the Ellenson family. I've always believed the Ellensons told Wojo that Henry would play 2 years at Marquette, and in turn, Wojo agreed to give 3 years of scholarship to Wally. Wojo ended up getting screwed when Henry left, had to cut Wally and take some scholarships away from track kids in order to shut Mrs. Ellenson up, and by recruiting Henry, we lost Gabe Levin to transfer and may have missed out on other recruits who would've stayed longer at Marquette and produced far less drama. So year 2 gave us a glimpse not only of Wojo's willingness to kowtow to a recruit's family, but also his inability to properly assess all the angles of a potentially bad situation.
We would see this type of thing happen again with both Markus and the Hauser family. Wojo got into bed with Markus and the Howards to the detriment of the program. People say the Hauser parents were selfish for wanting their kids to get more shots, but does anyone really think Markus' folks would've been okay with it if Wojo had told Markus he wouldn't be able to shoot whenever he wanted to? I guess we'll never know, because Markus was never reigned in. But Hausershima, when you think about it, was really just a worse, more damaging sequel to the Ellenson fiasco.
So in year 2, not only did we have some bad losses and poor scheduling which resulted in a 20 win season where we missed the NIT, but we also had a player/family situation blow up in Wojo's face. The latter was far more concerning; it was the first sign we had that Wojo was in over his head when it came to running his own program.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 10:35:20 AM
For me, the biggest red flag of year 2 was Wojo's handling of the Ellenson family. I've always believed the Ellensons told Wojo that Henry would play 2 years at Marquette, and in turn, Wojo agreed to give 3 years of scholarship to Wally. Wojo ended up getting screwed when Henry left, had to cut Wally and take some scholarships away from track kids in order to shut Mrs. Ellenson up, and by recruiting Henry, we lost Gabe Levin to transfer and may have missed out on other recruits who would've stayed longer at Marquette and produced far less drama. So year 2 gave us a glimpse not only of Wojo's willingness to kowtow to a recruit's family, but also his inability to properly assess all the angles of a potentially bad situation.
We would see this type of thing happen again with both Markus and the Hauser family. Wojo got into bed with Markus and the Howards to the detriment of the program. People say the Hauser parents were selfish for wanting their kids to get more shots, but does anyone really think Markus' folks would've been okay with it if Wojo had told Markus he wouldn't be able to shoot whenever he wanted to? I guess we'll never know, because Markus was never reigned in. But Hausershima, when you think about it, was really just a worse, more damaging sequel to the Ellenson fiasco.
So in year 2, not only did we have some bad losses and poor scheduling which resulted in a 20 win season where we missed the NIT, but we also had a player/family situation blow up in Wojo's face. The latter was far more concerning; it was the first sign we had that Wojo was in over his head when it came to running his own program.
You said it all, case closed, dog's dead.
Are parents around the country the same as Wisconsin parents'?
Was Maymon the same story For Buzz?
Quote from: vogue65 on March 22, 2021, 10:52:14 AM
You said it all, case closed, dog's dead.
Are parents around the country the same as Wisconsin parents'?
Was Maymon the same story For Buzz?
Buzz nipped that situation in the bud by kicking Maymon off the team a month into the season after his dad interrupted a practice.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 10:55:31 AM
Buzz nipped that situation in the bud by kicking Maymon off the team a month into the season after his dad interrupted a practice.
Perhaps it's a buttinski thing with Wisconsin parents.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 10:35:20 AM
For me, the biggest red flag of year 2 was Wojo's handling of the Ellenson family. I've always believed the Ellensons told Wojo that Henry would play 2 years at Marquette, and in turn, Wojo agreed to give 3 years of scholarship to Wally. Wojo ended up getting screwed when Henry left, had to cut Wally and take some scholarships away from track kids in order to shut Mrs. Ellenson up, and by recruiting Henry, we lost Gabe Levin to transfer and may have missed out on other recruits who would've stayed longer at Marquette and produced far less drama. So year 2 gave us a glimpse not only of Wojo's willingness to kowtow to a recruit's family, but also his inability to properly assess all the angles of a potentially bad situation.
We would see this type of thing happen again with both Markus and the Hauser family. Wojo got into bed with Markus and the Howards to the detriment of the program. People say the Hauser parents were selfish for wanting their kids to get more shots, but does anyone really think Markus' folks would've been okay with it if Wojo had told Markus he wouldn't be able to shoot whenever he wanted to? I guess we'll never know, because Markus was never reigned in. But Hausershima, when you think about it, was really just a worse, more damaging sequel to the Ellenson fiasco.
So in year 2, not only did we have some bad losses and poor scheduling which resulted in a 20 win season where we missed the NIT, but we also had a player/family situation blow up in Wojo's face. The latter was far more concerning; it was the first sign we had that Wojo was in over his head when it came to running his own program.
OK. Lots of 20/20 hindsight. And I think you are in the vast minority of those who thought Ellenson was going to be anything other than a 1-and-done. Many of us hoped he'd stay another year, but most were very realistic about his situation. I have seen absolutely no evidence of his family promising Wojo that Hank would stay for 2. I'd love to see it, though. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: MU82 on March 22, 2021, 10:22:19 AM
In another thread, somebody put up Wright's record and one Scooper said he'd be VERY happy if our next coach did at Marquette what Wright did.
Wow, who said that?
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 22, 2021, 10:25:26 AM
I think Wojo has a long ways to go to get to Majerus. For every Majerus, there's probably 10 Dukiet's.
I think Wojo's best option would be to go learn from a non-Duke coach for a year or two and get a different perspective on the game of basketball. That's similar to Majerus then.
I think WOJO's best career decision would be to go to the NBA for a year or two under Popovich.....Tibadeau....type.....Somebody who has "real chops" at X and O's coaching.....
Quote from: burger on March 22, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
I think WOJO's best career decision would be to go to the NBA for a year or two under Popovich.....Tibadeau....type.....Somebody who has "real chops" at X and O's coaching.....
Or his friend Quinn Snyder....
What did Rick learn after he left Marquette? What did he learn from his "failure" here? A lot of the growth in the coaches occur from place to place, not during the tenure. I'm not sure I saw any major growth in Wojo during his time here. A good coach doesn't just recruit good players, they need to develop and adjust from game to same and season to season. I saw more regression as the teams around Marquette adjusted to Wojo and its players. I think Wojo will be a good coach if he figures out how to assemble a team and not great individual recruits that work in tandem.
Can't wait for the Scoop posts in 2036 lamenting how he let Wojo get away.
I think Majerus also just needed to get away from Marquette and strike out on his own. It wasn't just about Xs and Os. The Bucks gig gave him a chance to do that, AND work with one of the great NBA coaches too.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on March 22, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Wow, who said that?
Here:
Quote from: avid1010 on March 22, 2021, 07:12:17 AM
I would be VERY pleased if we hired a coach from a mid-major and they had these results in their first 5 years.
2021–22 Marquette 19–13 7–9 5th NIT Quarterfinal
2022–23 Marquette 15–16 8–8 T–3rd NIT First Round
2023–24 Marquette 18–17 6–10 11th NIT Quarterfinal
2024–25 Marquette 24–8 11–5 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2025–26 Marquette 28–5 14–2 T–1st NCAA Division I Elite Eight
avid and I ended up having a nice discussion. I know where he was coming from. Who wouldn't like our next coach -- or any MU coach -- to go to the S16 and E8 in back-to-back years?
But we all know Scoop. And if our next coach has zero NCAAT appearances in his first 3 years, and an 18-17 record in Year 3, a very vocal group of Scoopers would be killing that coach -- especially if he wasn't their choice to begin with.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 22, 2021, 10:35:20 AM
For me, the biggest red flag of year 2 was Wojo's handling of the Ellenson family. I've always believed the Ellensons told Wojo that Henry would play 2 years at Marquette, and in turn, Wojo agreed to give 3 years of scholarship to Wally. Wojo ended up getting screwed when Henry left, had to cut Wally and take some scholarships away from track kids in order to shut Mrs. Ellenson up, and by recruiting Henry, we lost Gabe Levin to transfer and may have missed out on other recruits who would've stayed longer at Marquette and produced far less drama. So year 2 gave us a glimpse not only of Wojo's willingness to kowtow to a recruit's family, but also his inability to properly assess all the angles of a potentially bad situation.
We would see this type of thing happen again with both Markus and the Hauser family. Wojo got into bed with Markus and the Howards to the detriment of the program. People say the Hauser parents were selfish for wanting their kids to get more shots, but does anyone really think Markus' folks would've been okay with it if Wojo had told Markus he wouldn't be able to shoot whenever he wanted to? I guess we'll never know, because Markus was never reigned in. But Hausershima, when you think about it, was really just a worse, more damaging sequel to the Ellenson fiasco.
So in year 2, not only did we have some bad losses and poor scheduling which resulted in a 20 win season where we missed the NIT, but we also had a player/family situation blow up in Wojo's face. The latter was far more concerning; it was the first sign we had that Wojo was in over his head when it came to running his own program.
I believe the bolded part is wrong. He was always a one and done. And as a first-round pick, he should have been one and done.
So, after the bolded part, the rest becomes moot.