MUScoop

I'm pretty sure DG, Carton and Lewis didn't come to MU to fight for 10th in the BE. Do you think we have a better chance hanging onto them if we bring in a new coach thar can sell them on a fresh start?

if he is here i think at least one stays. prolly 2

They all stay, the whole bench can leave

Does it really matter if anyone transfers? Overall, we stink.

Dawson looked pissed on the bench. Better chance he stays if Wojo goes (and not just because of that observation today).

Quote from: CountryRoads on February 14, 2021, 04:41:09 PM
Dawson looked pissed on the bench. Better chance he stays if Wojo goes (and not just because of that observation today).

He should be pissed at himself. Not the coach.

I'm predicting Dawson transfers after seeing him in today's game.

Wojo has to hold players accountable for playing poorly!

Unless they "look pissed" on the bench ... then ...

Why the hell is Wojo holding players accountable?

Good luck at Minnesota! If he thinks it will get easier there,the big ten dudes will eat him up,until he puts a lot more muscle on

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 14, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
He should be pissed at himself. Not the coach.

I don't disagree. Self-reproach is usually lacking at that age though. IMO, wojo should have had him out there at the end to play through his struggles.

I'm more confident in  Garcia hitting a triple then Cain

Quote from: CountryRoads on February 14, 2021, 04:47:27 PM
I don't disagree. Self-reproach is usually lacking at that age though. IMO, wojo should have had him out there at the end to play through his struggles.

So he should treat the stars differently.

I thought that was a bad thing. Hard to keep track.

Quote from: CountryRoads on February 14, 2021, 04:41:09 PM
Dawson looked pissed on the bench. Better chance he stays if Wojo goes (and not just because of that observation today).

You have no idea why he was pissed.

DJ ain't gonna transfer. If he goes, it will be to earn money. I have no idea if Wojo staying or going will influence his decision either way, and I doubt anybody else here does, either.

Dawson and Justin stay if Wojo does IMHO. Not sure what they'd do if we have a different coach; will depend on many factors, including how much being closer to their families matter to them, how good a salesman the new coach is, and other stuff. But, as everybody knows, players quite often transfer when there's a coaching change.

They are all outta here quicker than cockroaches in a kitchen when the light gets turned on, aina?

Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2021, 04:54:43 PM
DJ ain't gonna transfer. If he goes, it will be to earn money. I have no idea if Wojo staying or going will influence his decision either way, and I doubt anybody else here does, either.

Dawson and Justin stay if Wojo does IMHO. Not sure what they'd do if we have a different coach; will depend on many factors, including how much being closer to their families matter to them, how good a salesman the new coach is, and other stuff. But, as everybody knows, players quite often transfer when there's a coaching change.

I don't disagree with any of this, but hiring a coach with a track record of winning would give us best and probably only shot at keeping Lewis and Garcia, and maybe even DJ willing to try another year. Thad Matta for example. 

But an unproven assistant hired who the three have no relationship with, yeah, would have to be one hell of a salesman. And in the end probably still wouldn't be enough.

We need to aim high in this search. MU is a great opportunity for any coach.

DJ isn't going anywhere since he's already transferred once. Unless it's to the G-League or the Uraguaian Basketball Association.

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2021, 05:01:10 PM
I don't disagree with any of this, but hiring a coach with a track record of winning would give us best and probably only shot at keeping Lewis and Garcia, and maybe even DJ willing to try another year. Thad Matta for example. 

But an unproven assistant hired who the three have no relationship with, yeah, would have to be one hell of a salesman. And in the end probably still wouldn't be enough.

We need to aim high in this search. MU is a great opportunity for any coach.

Hard to argue with any of that.

Also hard to imagine paying Matta $4M or more per year after paying $7M+ to buy out Wojo and his assistants.

Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2021, 05:11:26 PM
Hard to argue with any of that.

Also hard to imagine paying Matta $4M or more per year after paying $7M+ to buy out Wojo and his assistants.

Maybe, but we just don't know university's situation, and/ or wealthy donors willing to contribute. We'll see.

Kould probably get Steve Lavin cheeper, butt he wood hafta convert furst, aina?

I know you all think that the players are only at Marquette because Wojo tricked them into coming here and he's now holding their families hostage. But the players actually do like playing for Wojo. If he stays, I wouldn't expect any significant transfers. There may be a playing time transfer or two. No idea if Carton or Garcia will test the NBA waters.

Yeah, da Association iz just waitin' on both, hey?

It reminds me of when Giannis was crushed after Jason Kidd was fired. Blind loyalty without knowing anything else.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 14, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
I know you all think that the players are only at Marquette because Wojo tricked them into coming here and he's now holding their families hostage. But the players actually do like playing for Wojo. If he stays, I wouldn't expect any significant transfers. There may be a playing time transfer or two. No idea if Carton or Garcia will test the NBA waters.

Norwegian basketball association?

I didn't say they would get drafted. This board should be very familiar with players going pro despite having little to no chance of getting drafted

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2021, 05:32:39 PM
Maybe, but we just don't know university's situation, and/ or wealthy donors willing to contribute. We'll see.

Let's put it this way, the University is not in a good financial situation.

anyone have Bo Ryan's ph #?

Quote from: Marq3332 on February 14, 2021, 06:19:19 PM
anyone have Bo Ryan's ph #?

The massage therapist

In answering the poll it depends who the next coach would be.

I'm disappointed so few people voted Arby's.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 14, 2021, 06:04:44 PM
I didn't say they would get drafted. This board should be very familiar with players going pro despite having little to no chance of getting drafted

Some folks just don't get it, TAMU.

I mean, Vander finally became a decent all-around college basketball player but there was zero chance of him getting drafted. Zero. Yet he left anyway. Scoopers said he was nuts ... and maybe he was ... but he left.

The fact that a guy might not - or even probably won't - get drafted is beside the point. Guys decide to end their college careers for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they feel they are ready, no matter what anybody says. Maybe they are getting bad advice. Maybe they simply do not want to be in college any more. Maybe their family needs the money, even if that money will be coming from them playing in Turkey.

This has proven true over and over and over again. And yet when anybody mentions that a player might leave to go pro, the knee-jerk reaction is, "He's not ready to go pro! Nobody will draft him!"

That has nothing to do with it.

To the people who want to give Wojo one more year so that we might keep Carton, Lewis, and Garcia...

If everything goes right and all three of those guys stay and the new recruits are better than expected and Theo follows Lavin's suggestion and stays for a year of graduate school ("Count me in for that!"-Dodds, earlier today) and we have a good season and make the Tournament, Wojo is going to leave anyway.  If we have a good year next year, he'll view it as his last, best chance to leave Marquette for another job on his own terms.  If Marquette allows him stay one more year and he has anything resembling success, he'll have to leave for the sake of his career.  Falling to the depths of this season a second time would be too great a risk.

It's over.  Whether it's this year or next year, Wojo is finished as the coach of Marquette.  The best thing we can do is get rid of him now and start rebuilding again.

If Theo stays and we have another year of running the offense through the (super) senior who cannot see, cannot pass, cannot dribble, cannot shoot, is in everyone's way on offense, plays selective defense and has only one post move and to my recollection would be the only 6'9" or taller guy in NCAA history without an alley-top dunk then Wojo should stay too because they deserve each other.

Quote from: WarriorFan on February 15, 2021, 12:07:21 AM
If Theo stays and we have another year of running the offense through the (super) senior who cannot see, cannot pass, cannot dribble, cannot shoot, is in everyone's way on offense, plays selective defense and has only one post move and to my recollection would be the only 6'9" or taller guy in NCAA history without an alley-top dunk then Wojo should stay too because they deserve each other.

If every Marquette player performed his assigned role as well as Theo does his, we wouldn't be up shyte's creek without a paddle.

And as others have said many times, there will not be many seniors sticking around for another season.

Quote from: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 12:11:04 AM
If every Marquette player performed his assigned role as well as Theo does his, we wouldn't be up shyte's creek without a paddle.

And as others have said many times, there will not be many seniors sticking around for another season.

I agree.  The problem is not Theo.  The problem is the assigned role.  Theo should be an off the bench guy who comes in and gets a few boards, maybe a garbage bucket or two, and blocks the occasional shot.  He should never intentionally be given the ball on offense.

Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2021, 10:23:56 PM
Some folks just don't get it, TAMU.

I mean, Vander finally became a decent all-around college basketball player but there was zero chance of him getting drafted. Zero. Yet he left anyway. Scoopers said he was nuts ... and maybe he was ... but he left.

The fact that a guy might not - or even probably won't - get drafted is beside the point. Guys decide to end their college careers for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they feel they are ready, no matter what anybody says. Maybe they are getting bad advice. Maybe they simply do not want to be in college any more. Maybe their family needs the money, even if that money will be coming from them playing in Turkey.

This has proven true over and over and over again. And yet when anybody mentions that a player might leave to go pro, the knee-jerk reaction is, "He's not ready to go pro! Nobody will draft him!"

That has nothing to do with it.

Hoos Bailey gettin' paid bye, hey?

Quote from: WarriorFan on February 15, 2021, 12:15:28 AM
I agree.  The problem is not Theo.  The problem is the assigned role.  Theo should be an off the bench guy who comes in and gets a few boards, maybe a garbage bucket or two, and blocks the occasional shot.  He should never intentionally be given the ball on offense.

I get frustrated with Theo as well. But he's an above average high major big.
Not exactly sure what you expect.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 15, 2021, 05:15:04 AM

Hoos Bailey gettin' paid bye, hey?

I don't know what point you're trying to make, Doc, but you're actually proving mine.

Some Scoopers think that just because a player has little to no chance to be a pro means those players will not leave college to test the pro waters ... despite the fact that it happens over and over and over again, year after year after year, at school after school after school.

So when Scooper A says, "DJ might leave after this season to go pro," Scooper B responding by saying, "He's nowhere near ready to go pro," means nothing. Of course DJ isn't close to being ready to be a pro ... but he still very well might likely leave Marquette to try to be a pro.

Just as Bailey and Vander did.

Quote from: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 09:53:36 AM
I don't know what point you're trying to make, Doc, but you're actually proving mine.

Some Scoopers think that just because a player has little to no chance to be a pro means those players will not leave college to test the pro waters ... despite the fact that it happens over and over and over again, year after year after year, at school after school after school.

So when Scooper A says, "DJ might leave after this season to go pro," Scooper B responding by saying, "He's nowhere near ready to go pro," means nothing. Of course DJ isn't close to being ready to be a pro ... but he still very well might likely leave Marquette to try to be a pro.

Just as Bailey and Vander did.

Frolling and Niv as well

Quote from: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 09:53:36 AM
I don't know what point you're trying to make, Doc, but you're actually proving mine.

Some Scoopers think that just because a player has little to no chance to be a pro means those players will not leave college to test the pro waters ... despite the fact that it happens over and over and over again, year after year after year, at school after school after school.

So when Scooper A says, "DJ might leave after this season to go pro," Scooper B responding by saying, "He's nowhere near ready to go pro," means nothing. Of course DJ isn't close to being ready to be a pro ... but he still very well might likely leave Marquette to try to be a pro.

Just as Bailey and Vander did.

Don't mean to speak for Doc, but maybe he finds your Vander/Bailey comparison a stretch. It's true that neither was drafted, but one had a much better resume' and was/is a much better player. One was vary close to being an NBA player, one was not.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 10:07:36 AM
Don't mean to speak for Doc, but maybe he finds your Vander/Bailey comparison a stretch. It's true that neither was drafted, but one had a much better resume' and was/is a much better player. One was vary close to being an NBA player, one was not.

No one is comparing Vander and Bailey.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 10:07:36 AM
Don't mean to speak for Doc, but maybe he finds your Vander/Bailey comparison a stretch. It's true that neither was drafted, but one had a much better resume' and was/is a much better player. One was vary close to being an NBA player, one was not.

I think it's a stretch to say that, when he left college, Vander was "very close to being an NBA player." He wasn't drafted and he didn't get a legit sniff from a single NBA team. I don't want this to turn into one of those silly Scoop semantic battles that goes on for 50 comments, though, so if you think he was very close, I'll just respectfully disagree.

And really, my point wasn't about either Vander or Bailey. It was about the assumption that just because a player is nowhere near ready to be a pro he is unlikely to leave college to try to be a pro. Vander and Bailey were just given as two of the hundreds of examples across the college basketball landscape over the years. And DJ and Dawson would be other examples should either of them leave to go pro, for whatever reason.

For the record (and to take this to a different but slightly related topic) ...

DJ has a better chance to play in the NBA than either Vander or Bailey IMHO.

Quote from: MU82 on February 15, 2021, 10:58:44 AM
I think it's a stretch to say that, when he left college, Vander was "very close to being an NBA player." He wasn't drafted and he didn't get a legit sniff from a single NBA team.

He did play in 3 games for the Boston Celtics and I believe was on another 10-day contract with the 76ers. It's not like he was completely off the NBA radar.

Pretty sure Eye'll declare two den, hey?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 15, 2021, 11:48:17 AM
Pretty sure Eye'll declare two den, hey?

You don't have to. Thanks to COVID-19, you have another year of college eligibility.

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 14, 2021, 09:15:16 PM
I'm disappointed so few people voted Arby's.

The fan base clearly prefers Arby's.

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 15, 2021, 11:08:02 AM
He did play in 3 games for the Boston Celtics and I believe was on another 10-day contract with the 76ers. It's not like he was completely off the NBA radar.

OK ... so I guess we are going to have a semantics discussion about what "very close" means.

Vander was undrafted. He played on Houston and Memphis summer league teams but neither was impressed enough to sign him. He went to camp with the 76ers, because teams bring in a shyte-ton of players, but he never had a legit chance to make their roster and he was cut a month later. With no U.S. pro prospects, he signed to play in Israel, and that team cut him 2 months later. Signed to play in the D-League in January. Celtics, hit by a rash of injuries, signed him to a 10-day contract on 1/22/14. Played in 3 NBA games and then Boston chose not to give him another 10-day contract. He finished out the season playing for 2 other D-League teams.

That is not how I would define him being "very close to being an NBA player" after he made the decision to stop playing college ball. But again, if others think that is, that's A-OK with me.

And BTW, I am not downplaying Vander's pro career (nor did anybody say I was). He has played in 10 NBA games and has gotten some NBA paychecks, and that alone is an achievement. I continue to hope he finds success in whatever he chooses to do. He made the biggest shot of the entire 2012-13 Marquette basketball season and, arguably, also made the second-biggest shot that year, and I really enjoyed that season. So for those and his other contributions to MU hoops, I am grateful.

If I recall correctly Vander was on a few but not many, mock draft boards in the second round so that probably gives someone enough reasoning to assume he was close.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
If I recall correctly Vander was on a few but not many, mock draft boards in the second round so that probably gives someone enough reasoning to assume he was close.

Vander was the best player/leader of a regular season Big East Champion and an Elite 8 team. BB was a guy on a team that did nothing. They are nowhere near comparable as basketball players.

If Vander were BB's size, he'd be playing in the NBA right now.  If BB were Vander's size, he may have won a t-shirt as a campus intramural champion.

Vander's Mom passed away recently and they were very close, so it is hitting him hard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/veezy_SQ

Hopefully he can channel his energy back to basketball.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 02:21:12 PM
Vander was the best player/leader of a regular season Big East Champion and an Elite 8 team. BB was a guy on a team that did nothing. They are nowhere near comparable as basketball players.

I didn't say they were?

Quote from: Herman Cain on February 15, 2021, 02:32:23 PM
Vander's Mom passed away recently and they were very close, so it is hitting him hard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/veezy_SQ

Hopefully he can channel his energy back to basketball.

Oh man that sucks.  I remember her being interviewed when he was at MU and how much she meant to him.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2021, 02:21:12 PM
Vander was the best player/leader of a regular season Big East Champion and an Elite 8 team. BB was a guy on a team that did nothing. They are nowhere near comparable as basketball players.

Good thing I never even came close to saying they were comparable in any way but one - both left Marquette early to pursue pro careers even though neither was ready to be a pro.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 14, 2021, 06:04:44 PM
I didn't say they would get drafted. This board should be very familiar with players going pro despite having little to no chance of getting drafted

You serious, Clark?

This is an interesting poll. I believe (or want to believe) the players are happy with Wojo.
To me, if some of the key players want to transfer, then Wojo has to go.

I am not yet in the fire Wojo camp. Mostly, because I believe a lot of his players will transfer out if he is fired.
Of course this belief could be wrong. There is no way of knowing right now, if wojo staying or going has any effect on transfers.

My biggest reason for not firing Wojo is that I have no hope the MU will hire a successful coach. They will go with another experiment and it will only take two years for you guys to be on the warpath again.

Quote from: bilsu on February 16, 2021, 10:46:51 AM
This is an interesting poll. I believe (or want to believe) the players are happy with Wojo.
To me, if some of the key players want to transfer, then Wojo has to go.

I am not yet in the fire Wojo camp. Mostly, because I believe a lot of his players will transfer out if he is fired.
Of course this belief could be wrong. There is no way of knowing right now, if wojo staying or going has any effect on transfers.

My biggest reason for not firing Wojo is that I have no hope the MU will hire a successful coach. They will go with another experiment and it will only take two years for you guys to be on the warpath again.

Yes some people will be on the warpath again after 2 years, those people ignored a lot of logical reasons to keep with Wojo but have turned out to be correct. You cannot possibly tell me you like what you're seeing next year for the team or what you're seeing now.

Quote from: bilsu on February 16, 2021, 10:46:51 AM
This is an interesting poll. I believe (or want to believe) the players are happy with Wojo.
To me, if some of the key players want to transfer, then Wojo has to go.

I am not yet in the fire Wojo camp. Mostly, because I believe a lot of his players will transfer out if he is fired.
Of course this belief could be wrong. There is no way of knowing right now, if wojo staying or going has any effect on transfers.

My biggest reason for not firing Wojo is that I have no hope the MU will hire a successful coach. They will go with another experiment and it will only take two years for you guys to be on the warpath again.

2 years? You have a lot of faith in the patience of Scoop.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 16, 2021, 10:48:40 AM
Yes some people will be on the warpath again after 2 years, those people ignored a lot of logical reasons to keep with Wojo but have turned out to be correct. You cannot possibly tell me you like what you're seeing next year for the team or what you're seeing now.

My only hope for next year is that the recruit from PA can actually play point immediately.

Quote from: bilsu on February 17, 2021, 02:31:51 PM
My only hope for next year is that the recruit from PA can actually play point immediately.

Has anyone seen him play live/watched a stream of a full game?

Hard to tell one way or another from mixtapes.

Quote from: panda on February 17, 2021, 02:39:46 PM
Has anyone seen him play live/watched a stream of a full game?

Hard to tell one way or another from mixtapes.

A nova poster on the Big East forum told me their board was really high on the kid

Quote from: bilsu on February 16, 2021, 10:46:51 AM
This is an interesting poll. I believe (or want to believe) the players are happy with Wojo.
To me, if some of the key players want to transfer, then Wojo has to go.

I am not yet in the fire Wojo camp. Mostly, because I believe a lot of his players will transfer out if he is fired.
Of course this belief could be wrong. There is no way of knowing right now, if wojo staying or going has any effect on transfers.

My biggest reason for not firing Wojo is that I have no hope the MU will hire a successful coach. They will go with another experiment and it will only take two years for you guys to be on the warpath again.

aside from Carton, Garcia and Lewis, the roster is akin to UWMilwaukee. Time for a new HC.

Quote from: Marq3332 on February 18, 2021, 01:10:17 PM
aside from Carton, Garcia and Lewis, the roster is akin to UWMilwaukee. Time for a new HC.

I agree the roster is the problem. People keep posting here that Wojo can recruit, but he cannot coach.
I see it more the other way around. Even DePaul looked more talent than us when we played them.

Quote from: bilsu on February 16, 2021, 10:46:51 AM
This is an interesting poll. I believe (or want to believe) the players are happy with Wojo.
To me, if some of the key players want to transfer, then Wojo has to go.

I am not yet in the fire Wojo camp. Mostly, because I believe a lot of his players will transfer out if he is fired.
Of course this belief could be wrong. There is no way of knowing right now, if wojo staying or going has any effect on transfers.

My biggest reason for not firing Wojo is that I have no hope the MU will hire a successful coach. They will go with another experiment and it will only take two years for you guys to be on the warpath again.

Paging WW and Silent Verbal. Another poster to berate for not being NoJo.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9k9Ss9N3wO6FQ7C/giphy.gif)